MovieBob's thoughts on the ME3 ending controversy

[MiracleOfSound]

I'd question the artistic argument in the first place, due to the whole DLC thing. How is changing the ending any more an indication of not being art than paying to have an extra chapter?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And seriously, this is what Bob is talking about when he says gamers are immature. We would like for everyone to respect us, but yet we still cling to this childish notion of extreme entitlement and complete authority over the creative works and messages of others.

"We" do? Can you give me 5-10 examples of other gamer uprisings where we demanded to have a narrative changed?

As for wanting everyone to respect "us", I could really give less than a shit about whether or not non-gamers respect gaming. What possible difference does it make? It's about as important to me as whether or not people share my taste in music, or whether the guy sitting next to me likes spaghetti. If "gamers" are actually concerned about this, "gamers" would be well advised to stop being so fucking needy.

 

[Hyper-space]

snip

"Hey, I'm not going to address any of the points you made!"

That's great.

And yes, it is important that we take this medium seriously. Not with the verve and gravity of a child, but a self-respecting adult who realizes that not everything is meant to gear towards their ass alone.

 

[Lunar Templar]

and .... flame bait thread .... all this is, and all its going to turn into assuming it hasn't given its 7 pages in by the time i got here

 

[BloatedGuppy]

That's great.

And yes, it is important that we take this medium seriously. Not with the verve and gravity of a child, but a self-respecting adult who realizes that not everything is meant to gear towards their ass alone.

Who said anything about taking the medium seriously? Taking the medium seriously =/= as getting "respect". Anyone concerned with "having everyone respect them" is, to be completely honest, hopelessly insecure.

As to the "points" you made, really? The same "points" that have been debated, and argued, and refuted, for days now? Weeks? Are those the points you're referring to, those slowpoke points? You thought I was just ducking them, because I was bowled over by their profundity?

Bioware hasn't been "forced" into anything. No one put a gun to Bioware's head. If they've decided to make a change, that was their decision. They might not like the tone of the feedback, but it's just feedback. WE didn't change anything. WE asked THEM to change something, and they said "OKAY, I GUESS WE MIGHT".

As for your other point, your sad old strawman about having everything expertly tailored to appeal to each and every one of us alone, I give you copy-paste, continuity errors, and laziness. Which of us was that meant to appeal to? Was that part of the "art"? Did I just not "get it" when my dead squad mate stepped off the Normandy? Or can we stop using "It's Art" to validate every single fuck up?

 

[McMarbles]

Regardless of whether you disagree, 90% of this thread is ad hominem attacks. Classy.

 

[endtherapture]

Congratulations, "Mass Effect" crybabies. You've officially set the entire medium back a DECADE as an art form

We set the medium back a decade? To the year 2002?

Good. Baldur's Gate 2 came out about then, and showed how you properly end a 4 year franchise, rather than the shit that Mass Effect 3 was.

I'd want another Baldur's Gate 2 any day over another Mass Effect 3.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

Look, here's god's honest truth.

If Games being Art leads to Mass Effect 3, I don't want games to be art.

Although truth be told, I only care about games being art as far as them being protected by First Amendment, I don't give a shit about art. People consider a crucifix in a jar of urine to be art, art is meaningless.

 

[Atticus89]

A decade, guys, a DECADE!!!!

In Bob's defense, I certainly wouldn't want to relive 2002.

 

[Nfritzappa]

MovieBob is a f***ing idiot.

Biowares not CHANGING ANYTHING. They're just adding on to what the ending is. Christ.

 

[neoontime]

Really? It's the worst thing and it sets us back a decade. Jeez, I need a break from Bob for a while.

 

[Falcon123]

Let me make this clear: I think the ending sucked. I think the fans didn't get what they were promised, that Bioware dropped the ball, and that fans have ever reason to be upset about their purchase. But here's the thing: sometimes, games, movies, and books fail to live up to expectations. That doesn't mean we get to change them. When I was younger, I was a big fan of the Pendragon series. Book 1-9 were great. The tenth sucked. Horribly. Especially the ending. But I didn't demand a better ending. He has a right to screw his series over because it's his series . That's the thing about art. You don't have to like it. It doesn't have to be good. The artist can realize that things were wrong and try to fix it if that's what they want, but as of now, we have no proof this is what Bioware wanted.

Sure, I can buy this... for non-interactive media where I'm just an observer. If an author wants to do something like this I have one caveat for it: It must make sense in the premise of what was already established, or at least not break anything major along the way.

Mass Effect is a different animal here because while yes we have been limited to the tools we've been provided by Bioware to tell a story, they atleast had the common courtesy to not break me out of the suspension of disbelief, usually. Sure, a few hiccups here and there, but nothing too drastic. However, the way they decided to end this series (as it currently stands) feels like I was doing some painting, then suddenly Bioware stomps in and says "To finish this picture you can only use this one brush and three colors: Red, Green, or Blue. I don't care if I provided you more options earlier! You must stick with these for the end!" It's even more disappointing when talking about the picture earlier, it was mentioned I would be able to use everything for the entirety of the picture, especially the end.

I don't see how this is a different animal. You're not the artist, even if Bioware gave you the illusion that you are. They created the game. They created the universe in which the story exists, as well as every possible option you could make. They crafted the game from beginning to end. You played their creation. Big difference.

It's an awful shame Bioware let its fans down. They failed on this ending. They dropped the ball entirely. I'm not arguing against that. I agree with a lot of what you feel. They lied to you. They didn't deliver on their promises. They didn't make the masterpiece ending this game series deserved.

Where I differ from you is that I know this happens and it's not up to the developer to make it up to me. You don't like the ending? Don't buy their games. Don't buy their DLC. Don't support developers that make games you don't like. It's that simple. If you give them your money, and you don't think it was well spent, you take your licks and move on. That's how it was in the days of the NES when game reviews weren't easy to get a hold of and you had to guess whether a game would be good or not. No one demanded Dr. Jekyll and and Mr. Hyde be fixed.

I know you care about this series. That's not what's wrong here; that's what makes gaming special. But at the end of the day, you have to step back from your experience in game and realize that this wasn't your game. It was theirs. They screwed it up, but they don't owe you anything. If you don't like it, sell it back. Don't buy their games in the future. Learn your lesson. But demanding they meet your demands isn't right. You don't have that right; it's not your game.

That people feel entitled to have a game be good because you care about the series will have ramifications that affect gaming culture from years to come, and I find it hard to see how it will be for the better.

 

[targren]

Well, at least that explains why he isn't GamerBob.

Frighteningly enough, I think he was "The Game OverThinker" before he was "Moviebob."

Doesn't mean he's not usually wrong (I pretty much wrote off his gaming opinions after Other M, myself), but yeah, he actually has styled himself for gaming as well as movies.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Well this clearly tells us something enlightening.
MovieBob's opinion.

I get it he thinks the controversy over the ME3 ending is a bad thing.
And honestly I can't blame him.
I don't agree, but at the same time I can't blame him.

I mean, nobody demanded Lost change it's ending. But you know what? TV shows don't run on a DLC model! Gaming is the medium where changing shit for money is new accepted system the industry runs on! Nobody likes it, but here's a chance for it to do something good! Let the system work for us for a change.


Not to mention they did say the ending we got would reflect the choices we made. and that was just a lie, so yeah.

 

[Falcon123]

Maybe you think the ends justify the means. Maybe you think getting a proper ending for this great franchise is worth it. That's fine...in the short term. In the long term, the repercussions of this will last far longer than this series, and I think we as gamers will regret this in the long run.

Can I ask you a question?

What makes games unique as an art form? What is the element that separates them from, say, books, or films?

I'd argue that it's the interactivity of the player that separates them and creates an extra layer of immersion. That doesn't mean the player becomes the artist, though; Bioware still made the game. It gives the illusion of artistry that creates palpable immersion but is not genuine, and game developers do not owe anyone a good game; if a game is bad, it is the market's job to fix it. If a game is bad, people shouldn't buy it, and developers learn their lesson in the future. You can choose to continue giving them your money if you want, but you have to be aware that that money goes towards supporting their decisions, which they are more than free to make, even if their decisions are wrong. Every artist is allowed to make their art crap if they want, just as you're free to not like it. But they don't owe you a better game. That's not what art is about.

(I'm not sure if this was what you were getting at, but I've heard this argument within my group of friends, so I figured I'd just get my point out there know in case someone was going to go there. Please forgive me if I jumped the gun)