MovieBob's thoughts on the ME3 ending controversy

[Dante DiVongola]

I honestly agree with Bob in some aspects but differ a bit in others. While Bioware did seem to be turning tricks by giving into the demands of the people who wanted a 'better ending', it doesn't devalue the franchise as art. It's not the most tasteful of artist games, but it still is artful in the way the game has you make an emotional investment into the storyline and the plot. However, just because you felt the ending made your efforts feel 'all for naught' doesn't mean that the game is terrible.

What if that's the way Bioware wanted to make you feel? To have you feel like all the effort you put into your characters and it all has to end in seemingly the most miserable manner possible? Aren't there situations in real life that are just like that? I'd say that, in a way, that's kind of tasteful in a philosophical manner.

Either way, it shouldn't matter whether or not you feel the ending was justified or not. It happened and if you don't like it, you should just take into consideration that it is just a game. There are plenty more that you can invest your time and care into instead of pitching a fit whenever just one doesn't go your way.

Now what he referred in terms of it can either be art or it can be a product was probably him failing (once again) to fill in the blanks. There are games that can be completely controlled by the hands of the artist and shaped in the way that they make it. There are also games that are cash cows and are put out for the sole purpose of to buy into the franchise. It would be extremely difficult to find a medium where the artists could make their ideal games and have it be a huge, marketable success.

The way a lot of people talk about Mass Effect, they treat it like a sacred golden calf and that it's the epitome of gaming as an art form. When they got an ending to the series that they thought didn't live up to the expectations they had about the franchise, people got upset and raged over that. Games aren't perfect and to demand some ultimately great ending is unrealistic and childish.

So long story short, get over it and pick up another game instead of getting pissed off over how the story ended. Life moves on and so should you.

 

[Seanfall]

I'm done with that fat hypocritical bastard.

Now, now.. there is no reason to attack the man's weight. His arguments are horrible, attack those.

Yeah attacking his weight might have been over the edge. I'm fat too and I know what's it like.

Okay: His arguments have little to no merit cause.

A: He's a MOVIE critic.
B: He's never played Mass Effect.
C: He's just repeating things said a dozen times over by others.

and of course like so many others he gets his facts incorrect like with the FTC compliant and choices to use this time not to have an open discussion but take potshots at upset fans who don't get 'art'.

I have to go work so that's a fast track to the main points.

 

[Sanguinedragon]

I fail to see why it must be a sacrifice of artistic integrity to re-write an ending. We would never grow as a society if no-one paid any attention to criticism.

It's not that they're re-writing the ending. Fallout 3 rewrote the ending and it wasn't a big deal. The problem is that they're re-writing the ending to meet others demands instead of their own vision, and that's not what art is about. People are telling Bioware how to do their job, and instead of standing up for their game, right or wrong (see Lucas, George for a equivalent demand in cinema), they caved. That's the sacrifice of artistic integrity. They're not doing it for themselves or their own vision, but merely to make a profit. That's what products do. That's not art.

Bioware didn't get into games to make art they got into games to make money.
Also, this ending wasn't "the teams vision!!" it was 2 guys who made it with no input from the team, kinda defeats your biowares vision statement.

 

[Sanguinedragon]

I fail to see why it must be a sacrifice of artistic integrity to re-write an ending. We would never grow as a society if no-one paid any attention to criticism.

It's not that they're re-writing the ending. Fallout 3 rewrote the ending and it wasn't a big deal. The problem is that they're re-writing the ending to meet others demands instead of their own vision, and that's not what art is about. People are telling Bioware how to do their job, and instead of standing up for their game, right or wrong (see Lucas, George for a equivalent demand in cinema), they caved. That's the sacrifice of artistic integrity. They're not doing it for themselves or their own vision, but merely to make a profit. That's what products do. That's not art.

This right here is my problem. There was never an artistic vision at play. Typically, someone basing art on, and tying art to the works of another, or even their own previous work, will have the respect for the material not to openly make it null and void or to simply conflict with it out right. But the fact that they're pulling some sort of "It's art!" card as a cheap transparent defense does nobody any good. It cheapens the worth of ACTUAL art when they use it to cover their asses.

So you don't believe video games are art? I ask because I've spent a 30 page research thesis defending games as art, so that aspect matters to me. Either way, you're paying them more money to give you what you deserved all along. If you don't believe games are art, you can at least admit the business practice is shady at best, no?

Some games can be art ICO/ Shadow of the Colossus some are not and some are a mix. Just liek some movies are art films (usually doing very poorly at the box office) some are actiony popcorn flicks. You can't just paint a giant "IT'S ART" over the whole medium. Cause not all of it is.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Some games can be art ICO/ Shadow of the Colossus some are not and some are a mix. Just liek some movies are art films (usually doing very poorly at the box office) some are actiony popcorn flicks. You can't just paint a giant "IT'S ART" over the whole medium. Cause not all of it is.

Art films are not the only films that can be art. It's just a marketing term, it doesn't change the type of expression a movie is.

 

[Hatchetman]

When did he start riding the Biodick?

This crap is popping up in the most unlikely places.

It's popping up because BioWare and the game industry in general is counting on people being as uninformed as Bob and spouting their uninformed opinions regardless. Gamers are vulnerable because any complaints they have can be brushed off due to the stereotype of us all being virgins who live in our parents basements and raging not because we have a valid point but because our frustration from our sexless existence has finally found an outlet.

In a nutshell BioWare made false claims about their game (some of these claims were made two weeks before launch) while aggressively marketing per-ordered copies of the game. This is a very legitimate consumer complaint. If I buy any other product and what I was promised was not included with that product then there would be no question of the legitimacy of my complaint. However throw in the fact that I'm a gamer with a certain stereotype attached to that and my complaint gets brushed off. As a gamer I start to feel like I have none of the protection that consumers of other products enjoy and that tends to make people angry after a while.

 

[Samantha Burt]

A: He's a MOVIE critic.

Well, to my knowledge, he was doing Game Overthinker long before he was on the Escapist, but he may have been reviewing movies back then too.

 

[godofslack]

I like Movie Bob, he is enjoyable to listen to and usually quite smart but, that is just stupid. How does one of the MANY games with a ret conned ending somehow invalidate a medium. Novels and movies have been doing this for ages and it's not set them back at all. Another interesting thing, every art I can think of, is a product, music, drama, literature, games, culinary arts, etc. And in all of those things when people sell something unacceptable by the consumer they send it back, only in games they have the ability to patch it so they don't have to. Solving a problem in something doesn't make it any less of an art form, it develops and strengthens it. Failure is an essential part of the artistic process, and when people receive something below their standards they request it is changed, and when enough people do that it is changed, no mater the medium.

It's not even hard to be art, fling some paint at a canvas and you get art. If that is art so are games.

 

[Falcon123]

I fail to see why it must be a sacrifice of artistic integrity to re-write an ending. We would never grow as a society if no-one paid any attention to criticism.

It's not that they're re-writing the ending. Fallout 3 rewrote the ending and it wasn't a big deal. The problem is that they're re-writing the ending to meet others demands instead of their own vision, and that's not what art is about. People are telling Bioware how to do their job, and instead of standing up for their game, right or wrong (see Lucas, George for a equivalent demand in cinema), they caved. That's the sacrifice of artistic integrity. They're not doing it for themselves or their own vision, but merely to make a profit. That's what products do. That's not art.

Bioware didn't get into games to make art they got into games to make money.
Also, this ending wasn't "the teams vision!!" it was 2 guys who made it with no input from the team, kinda defeats your biowares vision statement.

You are stating alleged rumors as fact; I would appreciate it if you didn't do that. Also, Bioware as a singular entity is a business, the people that went into this business and dedicated their lives towards creating this series would probably view their games as art, at least given their many statements on the subject.

 

[Falcon123]

I fail to see why it must be a sacrifice of artistic integrity to re-write an ending. We would never grow as a society if no-one paid any attention to criticism.

It's not that they're re-writing the ending. Fallout 3 rewrote the ending and it wasn't a big deal. The problem is that they're re-writing the ending to meet others demands instead of their own vision, and that's not what art is about. People are telling Bioware how to do their job, and instead of standing up for their game, right or wrong (see Lucas, George for a equivalent demand in cinema), they caved. That's the sacrifice of artistic integrity. They're not doing it for themselves or their own vision, but merely to make a profit. That's what products do. That's not art.

This right here is my problem. There was never an artistic vision at play. Typically, someone basing art on, and tying art to the works of another, or even their own previous work, will have the respect for the material not to openly make it null and void or to simply conflict with it out right. But the fact that they're pulling some sort of "It's art!" card as a cheap transparent defense does nobody any good. It cheapens the worth of ACTUAL art when they use it to cover their asses.

So you don't believe video games are art? I ask because I've spent a 30 page research thesis defending games as art, so that aspect matters to me. Either way, you're paying them more money to give you what you deserved all along. If you don't believe games are art, you can at least admit the business practice is shady at best, no?

Some games can be art ICO/ Shadow of the Colossus some are not and some are a mix. Just liek some movies are art films (usually doing very poorly at the box office) some are actiony popcorn flicks. You can't just paint a giant "IT'S ART" over the whole medium. Cause not all of it is.

That's fine, but you're missing the point. Even if you forget that games are art and artistic integrity doesn't matter to you, the player has no ownership over the game itself, and they are not entitled to anything more than what they pay for. One has the right to hate the ending and refuse to give Bioware any more of your money if you are this outraged; one does not, however, "deserve better", nor does one have the right to force Bioware into remaking the ending because they didn't like it.

Also, I would bet even the most angry of Mass Effect fans right now would like to speak with you outside if you are insinuating that Mass Effect is not a game that has achieved great artistic merit.

 

[Awexsome]

The hate was already built up in the first place. There were so many people going into the release with complete intent of hating it from the get-go that one mediocre and letdown part of the game for some people was the first stone that started an avalanche.

Bioware shouldn't cave to those entitled bitchers. Were the other 30 hours of the game you enjoyed useless now with the ending a letdown for you? If someone would think yes then that's the type of person Bioware should ignore. They don't deserve to let their opinions be heard because their opinions, like Bob said that I agree with, only set back videogames as a whole.

 

[Badassassin]

oh man, guys, seriously? Still? Can we be done with this? This is just sad, get over it, it's just a game. You're just making yourselves look stupid.

 

[Pandabearparade]

Bioware shouldn't cave to those entitled [snip]

'Entitled' is just a word shills throw at fans who have standards and an expectation of quality in a product.

That's what it is, a product. It can be art too, but games are developed primarily to make money with artistic vision in a distant ninth or tenth place on the priority meter. The word 'entitled' would only apply if detractors felt that they are -legally- owed something. So long as no force is used people are allowed to want/demand/clamor for anything they fucking want.

That said, Bioware is under no obligation to listen or give a fuck what the fans want.

 

[Awexsome]

Bioware shouldn't cave to those entitled [snip]

'Entitled' is just a word shills throw at fans who have standards and an expectation of quality in a product.

That's what it is, a product. It can be art too, but games are developed primarily to make money with artistic vision in a distant ninth or tenth place on the priority meter. The word 'entitled' would only apply if detractors felt that they are -legally- owed something. So long as no force is used people are allowed to want/demand/clamor for anything they fucking want.

That said, Bioware is under no obligation to listen or give a fuck what the fans want.

The whole point is that the uproar is being cause by those selfish tards who are acting like they are -legally- owed something. Demanding changes for free, refunds, such unreasonable behavior like that.

 

[370999]

Bioware shouldn't cave to those entitled [snip]

'Entitled' is just a word shills throw at fans who have standards and an expectation of quality in a product.

That's what it is, a product. It can be art too, but games are developed primarily to make money with artistic vision in a distant ninth or tenth place on the priority meter. The word 'entitled' would only apply if detractors felt that they are -legally- owed something. So long as no force is used people are allowed to want/demand/clamor for anything they fucking want.

That said, Bioware is under no obligation to listen or give a fuck what the fans want.

Indeed. Fans don't own Mass Effect, they haven't invaded the building, it's Bioware's ultimate choice and painting it as otherwise is silly.

Of course having fans who like a game enough to buy any DLC you offer for it is a very tempting offer and losing that is a bit of a kick in the teeth.

 

[Karadalis]

I am still amazed that people say it would be biowares choice.

Wake up people! It is not biowares choice it is EAs choice.

Should EA believe only for a second that this mess would hurt the sales numbers for biowares next game then you can bet your ass they will tell bioware to remake/alter/retcon the ending.

It is not the fans that force bioware to change.. it is the OWNER of bioware that will force them to change the ending in the end.

Bioware themselfes have no say in the matter... hell Mass effect doesnt even belong to bioware.. it and everything around it belong to EA and only EA alone.

Art my ass.. EA doesnt do art.. EAs only interest is money.

 

[Aprilgold]

oh man, guys, seriously? Still? Can we be done with this? This is just sad, get over it, it's just a game. You're just making yourselves look stupid.

I wonder how many pages can actually be summed up with just this, not the people arguing against the ending, but the people arguing with the people arguing with the ending.

At any rate, this brought up Consumer Rights and may have had people learn about something called 'standards' or waiting until the game is out to buy it. Its a good old lesson that we all can learn at least one thing from. Also that cupcakes make a great bargaining chip for peaceful protests.

I don't usually agree with MovieBob - his opinion in films, his review of Other M, his Nintendo fanboyism... but on this matter, I couldn't agree with him more. Well, not so much his points, but his sentiment, which seems to be:


It is JUST. A. GAME.

Isn't it hypocritical for him to tell everyone to get over it when he basically told us that we should get up and arms over a movie he didn't like? Or, hell, any movie he ever got pissed at, why can't we just tell him its just a movie and to get over it?

His whole point on getting over it is ruined by the fact that he has gotten ridiculously pissed at movies before and didn't get over it, like Green Lantern.

I think the best way to sum up my points on this is that, due to this, we may have shook enough people out of defending publishers because they don't know any better when they obviously are just doing it for the money. I mean, look around you. Look at all the Call of Duties, rip offs of facebook games and more being sold out for obvious cash-grabs. The reason this is good is that so we can properly give critisms at large without turning on each other.

 

[DioWallachia]

This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we?re taking into account so many decisions that you?ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It?s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.

You see this, Chipman? THIS is the issue.

We were promised one thing, and subsequently given THE EXACT THING THEY PROMISED NOT TO GIVE US.

Could you, you know, consider this fact first before you start throwing insults willy-nilly?

I will just let Gunther Hermann from Deus Ex 1 handle this by summing it up with this phrase:

"THEY TALD ME I WOLL GET ORANGE ENDING BUT IT GAIFF ME LEMON LIME ENDING!!"

Seriously, i was under the impression that Bob would at least make the connection from Mass Effect to Deus Ex 1 to notice what its going on.

Lets do the wikiwalk or mental-connection: ME3 has the DeuxExMachinaTron9001 by having multiple endings at the press of a button >>> Deus Ex HR has multiple endings at the press of a button >>>> Deus Ex 1 has Gunther complaining that what he expected from the vending machine was orange juice but instead it gave it lemon juice

LOGIC................fucked up logic but logic still.

 

[AgDr_ODST]

No question about it among those scratching my head in confusion and shaking my fist in anger over Mass Effect 3's ending god awful ending. But I am not joining any of the 'retake movements
or going out of my way express my disdain to Bioware. I think that I'll simply refrain from buying any 'story' related DLC.

 

[DioWallachia]

oh man, guys, seriously? Still? Can we be done with this? This is just sad, get over it, it's just a game. You're just making yourselves look stupid.

Except that if we dont hold down the people who bitches for the sake of bitching about the endings instead of making a decent breakdown of why do they suck in both storytelling and as a product that was marketed with lies THEN all we are going to get is a miasma cloud of opinions that outsiders and even professionals WONT even try to get into because they believe its just another case of fanatism wankery that its best to avoid. After all, in the eyes of normal people, you CANT argue with fanatics, right?

That its what pisses me off, i dont even play the bloody series but i can totally say with a straight face that ignoring this issue is BULLSHIT, the mere idea that something may become lost in time because we didnt do anything its painful.

Take for example Metroid: Other M, Nintendo may believe that people doesnt like Metroid anymore but what people REALLY wants its for the games to NOT suck that hard. Nintendo may believe that the writer its responsible for the misogynistic approach of Samus but instead it was the badly translated script and the fact that there is no actual reason that its shown to the audience that both Adam and Samus respect each other. But guess what? because the fans are to stupid to actually think and voice their opinions correctly the damage its done and all we have left its people who remembers M:OM as just a product of the fucked up pervert submissive misogyny of Japan.

Would you like this to end like it?

EDIT: Bob couldnt even tell us that this is artistic betrayal because.....

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116308-Mass-Effect-3s-Ending-Was-Intended-To-Polarize

ITS WHAT THEY INTENDED AND WASNT THE PRESURE OF THE FANS.