Music Elitists

thesilentman

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Jun 14, 2012
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launchpadmcqwak said:
thesilentman said:
launchpadmcqwak said:
thesilentman said:
launchpadmcqwak said:
thesilentman said:
Ranorak said:
Because I respect their skills as musicians, not just as artists.

To me, it's infinity harder to play a good guitar solo, live, with 3 or 4 other band members while staying on key, and all on the same 1,2,3 and 4's.

Opposed to standing on stage lip-syncing while your back ground dancer put more time in their work then you ever did.

Or earning your fortune by having the auto-tune squeeze your voice is such a way that even GLaDos sounds human.

I have respect for bands like Iron Maiden, still touring, still making great albums for more then 20 years, while current pop-stars are not artists, they're products.
You sir, have won the thread. This is the reason that music elitism and people like me, you, and the OP exist. I love Dream Theater and Pink Floyd to all hell, but I understand why people would not like them. I, like you, respect their music and the meaning of what it means to be a musician.

There's also the fact that I'm a violinist myself and good music is engrained into my bones. I hate pop music as it isn't musically sound. I can't listen to auto-tuned music and repetitive beats as my mind needs more. I NEED music with proper tone shifts. I NEED music with different takes on the scales. I NEED something that's rhythmically diverse. I NEED music that makes me feel.

I need them, as I cannot have my music any other way.

Oh sure, some people are going to still prefer pop music. Would I look at them like I'm inferior? No! Will I convict them of not getting the balls to go out of their safety net? Yes. There is good music out there that many people are flat out ignoring, and it makes me unhappy in a sense. Unhappy that because of them choosing to support the pop artists, I may not be able to enjoy and get more of what I like.
maybe...the pop music makes them feel something that your "challenging" music makes you feel?.
The other thing to consider is that I'm a musician, so I have a better understanding of what it takes to play better music. This is an argument I can't really bring up in real life before some idiot turns that into a whinefest rather than a logical, discussion.
I am also a musician, it does not make my opinion more valid than another individuals.
*Shrugs* More power to you then. I don't mind if people like to listen to other music. I just get pissed when other people try to stop my enjoyment for them.
Sorry to carry this on..but when has anyone ever stopped someone from enjoying music?
A lot of people don't like the stuff I listen to. A lot. Considering that all I listen to is Progressive and some Classical, I don't know what the fuss is. I was just referring to people not going out of their comfort zone and supporting the pop artists when money could go elsewhere. But again, that's nothing I can control.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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thesilentman said:
*Shrugs* More power to you then. I don't mind if people like to listen to other music. I just get pissed when other people try to stop my enjoyment for them.
Which still doesn't make the "I'm a musician" any less baffling.

A lot of people don't like the stuff I listen to.
And seriously, how has this stopped your from enjoying it?

I have a low opinion of most prog music, yes, but how is that preventing you from enjoying it? How is it actively oppressing you to know that? And why can I enjoy my music, knowing that you are not a fan, if you cannot enjoy yours?
 

thesilentman

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Jun 14, 2012
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Which still doesn't make the "I'm a musician" any less baffling.
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. I enjoy what's different than other people around me in real life. I get a lot of flak for this. Maybe it's because I'm still in high school, where most of everyone is retarded, but this is the norm around me.

And seriously, how has this stopped your from enjoying it?

I have a low opinion of most prog music, yes, but how is that preventing you from enjoying it? How is it actively oppressing you to know that? And why can I enjoy my music, knowing that you are not a fan, if you cannot enjoy yours?
It has not. It's just that people are way too judgemental when I try to explain my tastes.
 

Auron

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Mar 28, 2009
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el_kabong said:

Pretty much this. And then there's the fact music can be easily analyzed from a critic technical point of view, some of it is just bad. And some music is immensely simple when broke down in a sheet. Not to mention the lyrics... You just cannot say that Justin Bieber has any redeeming quality as a singer, maybe a sex symbol for little girls but the entire musical piece is inferior in every concept I can think of from harmony to the tacky repetitive lyrics and melody.

One singer I like that makes people go "WTF" on me is Gaga, I heard some of her stuff from before her pop music and she had a wonderful voice and rather deep lyrics, I can still see some of it on her music now but it's mostly lost sadly, just another example on top of El Kabong's Sex Pistols.
 

Grottnikk

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Mar 19, 2008
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JonnyHG said:
Grottnikk said:
I like music elitists. I like to pick them apart by making fun of their shit :).

You like death metal? Really? I think all their lead singers sound like the cookie monster: "graaarrr! mwarrrr! CISFORCOOKIEGOODENOUGHFORME!"

Speed Metal? Oh, you mean polka-metal! Love that stuff, man!

You like emo? Naw, too easy :)

Myself, I like most music. I'll listen to most things except rap and country, but even then there are a few songs/artists from those genres I like (seriously, who doesn't like Johnny Cash)
Hopefully no one has posted this. I couldn't resist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kS0J58H1L0
Dude, you owe me one pair of boxer shorts - I just pissed mine :D
 

Smiley Face

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Jan 17, 2012
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There's a few kinds of 'elitism' about music. There's going about touting specific genres as universally 'superior', then there's arguing specific genres as 'inferior', and then there's judging others based on their tastes in music. The former, imo, is often silly (I'm not going to say that categorically, but I've yet to see an instance of it), the middle, imo, often consists of reasonable argument and debate, and the last, obviously, is preposterous.

And to the OP - people don't say that modern pop is inferior to classic rock because of the lyrics - it's because of the MUSIC. After all, that's what it is, MUSIC, not poetry. Some of the best works of classic rock managed to achieve that rare feat of having the instrumental and lyrical elements of the song combine to make something that was distinct and impressive, and musically, was creative. The vast majority of pop music today, in the eyes of many, manages to be neither distinct, nor musically creative. Also, analytically, there have been studies which have shown that it IS less creative. Scientifically.

Personally, I don't really think of myself as elitist, musically - I have specific tastes, and I judge many pieces of music harshly, but I don't think of any genre as superior, and I don't judge people for having different tastes than mine - indeed, I recognize that many people likely have better tastes than mine, and some of my biases against certain kinds of music may be unreasonable. The closest I guess I come is that I can find it hard to understand how someone would, after experiencing the best that the many, many genres and styles of music that there are, tout any one (particularly if that one is modern pop) as superior.
 

Zealous

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Mar 24, 2009
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smithy_2045 said:
Shnipidy snip.
I guess the definition can vary, but I consider any game where kill times are somewhere below one second on the majority of weapons to be a twitch shooter. CS is definitely a more refined and skill based TS though, you got that right for sure.
 

repeating integers

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Mar 17, 2010
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Ishal said:
Vault101 said:
Ishal said:
By the way Vault, I've started listening to a new genre of RAP called "cloud rap" you know anything about that? Anything to recommend?
0_0...why no, I havnt heard of that

please..tell me more!
From what I gather and from what I've heard its rap, but laid back with the actual rapping toned down. Lyrics and rhymes are still important but its really chill. I'm still not completely sold on it, but its something I've listened to while studying and doing other stuff. Its good background music, very ambient with more focus on the music than other styles (imo).

Fav song so far is this.

Out of interest, did you get into it due to a post of mine?

Anyway, regardless of that, here be some moar Cloud Rap.

<youtube=2NNbeS-_EEA>

<youtube=n4cbbQ-iF6E>

<youtube=ob3ktDxAjWI>
 

Belated

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Feb 2, 2011
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My favorite band is Green Day, and among the many bands I listen to, I like Nickelback. So naturally I encounter music elitism a whole lot. And most of the arguments I hear against my preferred bands, whether it's Green Day, or Nickelback, or any other band, tend to be pretty terrible and often even illogical.

The only question I ask myself when deciding if I like certain bands or songs, is "Does it sound cool?" If my brain interprets the noise in a way that is pleasurable, then why should I complain? If you have a bunch of nitpicky reasons to dislike certain music - reasons most people don't even know are things, such as "chord progression" - that's fine. It's your preference. But don't treat me like I'm an uneducated consumer zombie if I don't concur with your reasoning.

One thing I really hate though, is when people reject a certain artist because of something they did. I listen to Michael Jackson. Now, I don't know if he did anything with children, and I don't care. I still like how his music sounds so I'm still going to listen to his stuff. Or what about Chris Brown beating Rihanna? If I'm being perfectly honest, when I heard the news that Chris beat Rihanna, my first thought was actually, "Oh no, now they're not going to play that awesome Doublemint commercial [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YtEx9uRkj4] anymore!" And I still listen to Chris Brown. Plus, before that whole thing happened, Rihanna kind of wrote a song [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0YrTizC3JU] where she basically implied that it's okay to beat your man if you catch him cheating on you. So, just a little bit of irony there. Oh, and I also listen to Rihanna. I don't care if she wrote a sexist song that promoted domestic abuse against men. I'm willing to forgive her if it means I get to enjoy tunes like "Shut Up and Drive".

I don't care how many people helped you write your song. I don't care how many machines were involved in editing your song. I don't care if your voice normally sounds like ass. I don't care if you only play three cords. I don't care if you only got as far as you are by being sexy. Does your music sound cool to me? Then I like it. Don't get me wrong, I recognize real, raw talent. But that doesn't mean I'm going to deprive myself of other stuff.
 

miketehmage

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Jul 22, 2009
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It takes more skill to perform rock pieces live. Also no autotune.

I've heard about DJ's that just prerecord their shit and then hit play and just pretend to do stuff while on stage but really it's all premixed.

The problem I have with alot of mainstream music is that all the credit goes to the singer. When really alot of different musicians were there to make it possible. The drummer/guitarist/bassist etc. But no, the credit goes to the singer who sings the same 4 lines over and over. yup. seems fair.

Live performances of mainstream music usually involve a solo singer (eg bieber) singing along to a pre-recorded backing track.

Objectively you could say that it takes more skill and is therefore more impressive for a rock band to play because nothing is prerecorded and if somebody is out of timing then the whole band needs to adjust to fix that. This is something that solo artists do not need to worry about.


however I do sometimes enjoy listening to dubstep mixes when playing competitive games, just to get me hyped up. Don't know if you consider that mainstream.
 

Tropicaz

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Aug 7, 2012
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Waaghpowa said:
My problem with pop music is that it generally feels artificial to me. Sure, they may be talented, but their music seems disingenuous as if they're doing it just for the money rather than try to spread a message. Music is powerful in the sense that it can spread an idea or message, and to not do that just seems like a waste to me.

This is a better version of "baby" by Beiber.
I'm a fan of




OT: There is Elitism in any form of media. People moaning at 'casual' gamers and people moaning at mainstream music are just similar to alot of art/film/food critics. Just ignore it and listen to what you want to; at the moment for me it's mostly a mixture of Of Monsters and Men, Sonicboom Six, SNSD and the fratellis. Now 2 of those are very much poppy and overproduced, but it doesnt matter to me cos my ears still enjoy the sounds.

As someone said above, the only bit that ticks me off is when people get angry because you heard the song in a game/film/advert so apparently arent a real fan. But similarly, you can easily just ignore it.
 

BeeGeenie

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May 30, 2012
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I look forward to the day when the music industry collapses under its own weight, and we can get back to the good old days; when you could just sit on your porch with your chums and rock out, without worrying about getting record deals or whatever.
Good music was meant to be enjoyed and played for its own sake, not mass produced and sold like fast food.

Then again, that was 100 years ago. Before modern recording methods allowed the average Joe to have access to the "best music evar."
 

Shraggler

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Jan 6, 2009
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thesilentman said:
There's also the fact that I'm a violinist myself and good music is engrained into my bones. I hate pop music as it isn't musically sound. I can't listen to auto-tuned music and repetitive beats as my mind needs more. I NEED music with proper tone shifts. I NEED music with different takes on the scales. I NEED something that's rhythmically diverse. I NEED music that makes me feel.

I need them, as I cannot have my music any other way.
I essentially agree with this.

I define music as the evocation of emotion via sound.

I'm definitely guilty of being a bit of an "elitist" when it comes to music I suppose. It's one of the subjects I've learned to avoid in conversation, akin to religion and politics. I tend to find that I will view someone as, basically, an idiot if their musical tastes don't fit into that above definition. Or, at the very least, I see them as someone lacking any real sense of individuality, intellect and capabilities of complex thought or emotion. Yes, I know that sounds elitist as all fuck and makes me look like some kind of self-important prick, but despite that not being the case, this is why I avoid the topic altogether. I can come off as overly-judgmental and elitist when I'm simply trying to convey my emotional indifference to other's musical tastes.

Now I'm not talking about someone who passively listens to whatever's on the radio while they're driving, or someone who enjoys a beat to dance to that a particular pop or hip-hop or whatever song contains. I'm talking about people who actually prefer that stuff over everything else and make a point to constantly play it or listen to it or have it somehow in their environment constantly. This is also why I avoid the topic altogether.

However, as has been mentioned, many people don't put much actual importance to the music they listen to. Even the people who're constantly on about it, going on about bands you've never heard of in order to sound culturally superior, or just people constantly on the search for "the new thing". Most of the people like this who I've met don't have any actual reasoning why they listen to it; it's just "sound". Sometimes it's just nice to have around in order to break up the constant silence that would otherwise be there. I can completely relate to that and have no problems with folks like that. I do the same thing from time to time, for various reasons. It's the average person who will suddenly start lauding the band that they like seemingly out of the blue when their speakers suddenly (and awkwardly) bust out with a song at way too high a volume - that's the kind of people who bother me. When they're drunkenly into a song that I can't attribute anything positive to or any emotional expression what-so-ever, and they go from "party down" to somber "I'm super into this"-bullshit mode - that's the kind of person/situation I could live without for the rest of my life.

I think it's a point of contention for me because I can cite exactly how a song makes me feel or what sensation/emotion I perceive or am being made to feel. It may take me a good 10 to 20 minutes to explain something only a few seconds long, but that's one of the reasons I love music. It's one of the most pure methods of communication, rivaling the spoken word in breadth and depth. Problem is, I've met very few people who understand it in the same or similar way, or can even just understand what I'm talking about. Even if I initially keep my descriptions very open and general to establish some sort of mutual relativity, most of the time it's met with, at best, a blank stare. At times it's, "yeah man, I totally get that." and then a completely unrelated metaphor is attempted where I realize, "no, you absolutely don't get that; you don't care about the topic at hand and we've both wasted our time."

A well constructed musical composition, to me, is one of the highest forms of art and communication that we can do as humans. I love composing. I love learning. I love analyzing other compositions in order to determine what was done at that particular time, at that particular interval, to give me the sensation of anxiety/apprehension/fear/joy/tension/whatever the case may be. It is fundamentally interesting to me and is truly my sole passion. Sure, I have other skills that I've acquired over the years and refined with schooling and study, and applied them to jobs/career opportunities. But that's simply to live and make money to continue living. Music is the only thing that I really care about.