Muslim Should Not Equal Villain

[Shihoudani]

Just a recent article I read an hour ago while on Yahoo, thought it kind of fit with the arguments that are going on.

De Telegraaf, the Netherlands' largest newspaper, led its front page on Friday with a story on the speech by Feiz Muhammad.

The Sydney-born Muhammad has gained notoriety for, among other things, calling on young children to be radicalized and blaming rape victims for their own attacks.

The paper posted an English-language audio clip in which he refers to Wilders as "this Satan, this devil, this politician in Holland" and explains that anyone who talks about Islam like Wilders does should be executed by beheading.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100903/wl_nm/us_dutch_wilders

My apologies if I messed up the link Past five in the morning and I'm dead tired. x3

 

[Booze Zombie]

I've never looked at the race of people when I play a game, I don't think "filthy *insert race here*" I'm shooting enemies, should I care if they're exaggerated or what colour they are?

I'm not sure if the people making these games are consciously trying to say "Arabs are evil" or if Arab enemies just fitted the setting they used at the time, I might never know...
but what I do know, is that's not what I take away from a game.

 

[oblivion220791]

whatever happened to the old human vs alien, where no religions are involved, no races are comparable, no accents, no nationality. so now let's just finish this thing up and let's play MAG!!!

 

[Lawyer105]

On a similar note, ever notice how a character with a british accent always turns out to be the villain in everything? Are we offended? Yes, slightly. We just laugh at the silly americans who distrust us because we sound intelligent.

You'll note though, that British actors only play the intelligent villains. The thugs are usually played by dudes with a Brooklyn accent. I guess that's a compliment of sorts?

 

[oblivion220791]

there's a reason there's such a hate in the media. because when you play as a nazi in the old CoD or a russian in the Newer CoDs, no one bitches about it, not even Vladamir putin gives a crap, i bet he might even find it funny in a way.

but the the very second there's a reference to muslims, EVERY DAMN MUSILM GETS ENRAGED.

what i don't get is why some people can't just take a joke. ok, so you can play as the taliban in medal of honor, big deal, IT'S A VIDEO GAME, IT'S NOT REAL, IT'S JUST REFLECTING MODERN POLITICAL ISSUES. i don't even know why you brought up prince of persia, that game's set in a completely different time than post 9/11. back then the muslims were fine, so why not send one little trouble maker who looks like jake gyllenhal based of an old platforming game in there with the power to stop time? big deal!!!

i looked up for 2 seconds, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT MAFIA 2 BEING AN ISSUE? sterotypes? DUH!!! didn't you watch the godfather??? how about part 2? if you're gonna make a video game about italian mobsters in the 20's, WHY NOT MAKE THEM ITALIAN FROM THE 20'S??? the game would suck ass if you were an asian mob from the 20's, there weren't any asians in chicago at the time either. how about just a bunch of bland white guys? HELL NO, THAT'S BORING!!! i want lines like "he's sleeping wit de fishes" done right, italian mobster.

this has nothing to do with muslims by the way, just a reminder, unless you can find me an italian muslim, then smack him for "ruining the family name" as the don would say it.

BACK ON TRACK, if you really want game developers to stop making games where you kill muslims;
1; stop looking so hard for games with muslims in them. seriously, the only other game i know where that's an issue is ethnic cleansing, for obvious reasons
2; stop playing games where you shoot muslims, aka, stop playing the new medal of honor. instead, play HALO 3, or BAD COMPANY 2, CoD BLACK OPS, or CoD WORLD AT WAR, or BRUTAL LEGEND, or, GUITAR HERO, or GTA4, or MADDEN 11,or DORA THE EXPLORER: ADVENTURE TO THE PURPLE PLANET, or MADWORLD, or PROTOTYPE, or LEFT 4 DEAD 2, or POKEMON GOLD, or FIFA 11, or MARVEL VS. CAPCOM, or GOD OF WAR 3, or FAT PRINCESS, or ROCK BAND 3, or ARMY OF TWO 40TH DAY, or RESIDENT EVIL 4, or GEARS OF WAR 2 (OR 3), or TRANSFORMERS WAR FOR CYBERTRON, or GOD DAMN DUKE NUKEM FOREVER.
--(i just listed a bunch of games with no muslims in them what so ever. if you reply complaining that there is a neglectance of muslims in video games, i swear to fucking god, i will pull you nuts out like we pull our troops out of iraq.)

PAGE 10! W00T!

dude, chill

 

[chinomareno]

Their are assholes in every culture and religion and if you are someone who bases ur opinion of an entire culture on the actions of a few radicals then YOU are an asshole too... in fact ur one of the alpha assholes that helps facilitate assholeism for all the other assholes. I'll take whatever you got moderators!

It is hard to ignore a lot of the things that radicals do. That is the main problem with any religion. That there will always be people blindly following something and taking it to such an extreme that they are willing to kill over it. People need to think freely, decide for themselves if they want to die for no reason.

*facepalm*
The only difference between radicals committing crimes and ordinary, run-of-the-mill psychopaths committing crimes is that the religionists get more media attention. Same deal with violent video games.

Does being a gamer make you violent? Hell no. Does being a Muslim make you violent? Hell no. Does being from Texas make you violent?

...Jury's still out on that one.

Being Texan or a gamer has no ideology to conform to, it's just not comparable. The difference is there is a source of inspiration for religious violence deeply routed in the ideology. You would have to ignore a lot of evidence to equate Islamic terrorism with random psychopaths, they are gullible but quite sane.

 

[Giest4life]

It is true that Muslims have been in a bad light (not near as much as Nazi's or Russians lol). However, Muslims have been attacking American values for just as long. Even today we can see hate speeches from Islamic leaders citing violence against Americans, and their way of life. I'm afraid I can't feel sympathetic towards a culture that hates democracy, it's values, and it's people. Also, they hate Jews with such a passion that it makes Nazi's look conservative. This is common knowledge, and also this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.229799-Iran-Publishes-Anti-Israel-Videogames

Sorry, I'm just not buying that it is Muslims who are the real victims here. Of course, this is a matter of opinion.

This. Why is it such a big issue because it's about Muslims?

The Nazi's were bastards, and now the Germans are endlessly getting stick about it in virtually every shooter that comes out. You even get Nazi Zombies now. And they suck it up and move on.

Ditto for the Russians.

But Muslims? Nooo... can't do that. Their sensitive feelings might get hurt. Now keep in mind that those same 'sensitive' feelings:
- stone people,
- abuse and oppress women,
- rabidly denouce ANYTHING that isn't completely in line with THEIR religion (funny how they're allowed to criticise everyone else, but cannot be criticised themselves),
- call for murder on London and Amsterdam streets without getting arrested for promoting hate,
- commit terrorists acts,
and so on. Sure, it's not ALL of them. Many living in the Western world are just fine. But equally many are dragging their junk across into our world and stoning/honor killing people in Western countries now too!

So no. I don't have much sympathy at all.

When the 'moderate' Muslims are prepared to stand up and say "No! This is not acceptable!" and do something to stop it, then we've got room to talk. But the vast majority only ever go as far as "No! This is not acceptable. But I can understand why you're doing it, and even though I won't do it myself, I kinda support YOU doing it." and then do nothing to stop it.

Until they stand up to be counted, they can all bugger off.

Quoted for truth, though not sure why I was quoted in particular lol! This post covers many of the things I never said in my initial post. It is true that it seems that Muslims feel they can criticize anyone, but will not tolerate being criticized themselves. Thanks for the post ^~^! It's good to know that truth seekers are still out there.

Oh, I'm sorry, then. Truth, and goodness then depends on the perspective, and it's proponents. Your logic is flawed. You are then implicitly justifying anything, depending on when, where, and whom it matters to.

I'm sure the Nazis were right in their own mind, and all the Jews should suck it up, because the moderate anti-semits in Germany, and elsewhere in Europe, should have just raised their voices when the Nuremberg laws were passed.

EDIT: Just an fyi: goodness, truth, and morality is just a matter of perspective. Nothing, and everything is justified. I'm only assuming that you believe in some sort of a constant "truth" or "morality."

 

[WaderiAAA]

I always found it strange how whenever there are Russians, Muslims or Germans in a video game, they are the bad guys and people rarely react, but when one resident evil game was set in Africa, everyone was screaming about racism.

 

[WaderiAAA]

I agree with the article, but I would like to point out that 24 got a tad more nuanced in the later seasons.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Well America is pretty xenophobic about Muslims.

What's this in the news? The ground zero mosque? Oh yes. that.

The USA is a hell of alot more tolerant towards Muslims then alot of Muslim countries are towards Christians, Atheists and citizens of the United States.

That's a lazy excuse to justify xenophobia. Just because others might do the same to you does not mean you should treat them that way, especially in a country like America that boasts about freedom and having the moral high ground.

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

Well, folks, this really is the last post I'll be able to make for a while -- need to work on the novel and take the kiddies out this weekend. So I'll try to address some broad arguments that people are making. A lot of this thread is not really about games. People are asking me to weigh in on all sorts of things that aren't part of the original article. This really isn't the place to talk about Palestine vs. Israel, or comparative religion, or about why hate crimes might be understandable (!?), or the Muhammad cartoons, etc. So I'm going to keep my points brief and gaming-related:

1) To those who say "It's just a game" or "Get over it": as I said before, I know gamers don't automatically form all their ideas about people/places based on games -- any more than the columbine shooters did it 'because of' violent games. If that was the case I'd be going out and committing assassinations after playing the bazillion hours of Oblivion that I've played. But if you think that movies and games and TV aren't part of where we get our notions about the world, then you're just not paying attention to reality. There's a reason that governments and religions throughout history have used songs and posters and movies and cartoons and, yes, video games, to spread their messages. There's a reason our government recruited Dr. Seuss and Walt Disney for WWII propaganda. There's a reason '24' was cited as a source of inspiration by Guatanamo interrogators (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2008/04/report-jack-bauer-gave-people-lots-ideas-gitmo). And there's a reason that the US Army and Hezbollah both have used gaming as a recruitment/propaganda tool. Because cartoons, movies, tv, and yes, GAMES, matter. They matter a whole lot.

2) The argument 'Get in line, lots of groups have been demonized' isn't really a counter to my article. How does a long history of wrongs add up to a right, exactly? And as to the related point 'the Taliban is the enemy, so of course war games feature the enemy' -- well, that doesn't address my main point either, which is simply 'Gee, maybe we could have a game here and there where there are muslims who aren't terrorists.'

3) The argument 'game companies don't owe Muslims anything' isn't much better. Variety of depiction in games isn't just -- or even primarily -- about making my little Muslim heart warm and fuzzy. It's about making better games. Again, plenty of non-muslim people in this thread and in private messages have made it clear that they, too, would appreciate some variety in their games. The same-old same-old isn't just stereotypical. It's BORING.

4) Finally, to those who really believe that these games DO reflect reality because most Muslims, or a whole hell of a lot of us are violent fanatics, I have to say you need some better evidence for that claim than the TV news. Because, if you really believe that you get the whole picture of a culture from watching tv or reading foxnews.com (or cnn.com, for that matter), then you've got bigger problems than I know how to address.

It's been real, folks. See you on the flip side.

 

[Sodoff]

uhg.. Internet Religion debates...

It's a black hole from which you cannot return.

and now it's time to throw myself into it.

You cannot compare Islam, a religion, with the Nazi Party. A better choice would be, say Hesbollah, or Al'quadia (spelling I know), As they both are parties/organisations who follow certain ideas.

What the writer of this article is mentioning, is that there in alot of videogames tends to be a stereotype of "Muslim->Scary ass ************".

I think it's important to remember, that we shoot Nazi's because they are Nazi's and not because they are German.

But, alot of the time in other games, we shoot Muslims, or "generic middle eastern guy" because, well.. "They are all bad"

My point here is, the argument "suck it up, the germans don't complain" is flawed, as acutally very uninformed.

 

[370999]

Well America is pretty xenophobic about Muslims.

What's this in the news? The ground zero mosque? Oh yes. that.

The USA is a hell of alot more tolerant towards Muslims then alot of Muslim countries are towards Christians, Atheists and citizens of the United States.

That's a lazy excuse to justify xenophobia. Just because others might do the same to you does not mean you should treat them that way, especially in a country like America that boasts about freedom and having the moral high ground.

Except it wasn't an excuse, it was putting your remark in context, the fact remains that the US, while far from perfect is far better then many other states.

Xenophobia is of course bad but acting like the US and the west in general is specially intolerant is stupid.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Following people would like to have a word with you on stopping to complain and get over it: Russians, Germans.

Epic post.

Hahah.

OT:

Video games aren't meant to be some cross examination of xenophobia. they're just ways to have fun and tell a story.

In short.

Get over it.

basically what i was going to say.

i know im not necessarily one of the main groups that being attacked, but seriously? its a fucking video game. they have done much worse in movies before and you HARDLY hear anything about them having to stop anytime soon.

people complain and complain, over shit that literally does NOT affect them beyond there own self esteem issues.

 

[Draconalis]

Frankly speaking, for me Muslims fall into the same category as all other religions.

I hate them in equal to the ratio of how much they are trying to interfere in my own life.

Muslims and Christians both try to change laws that don't fit their religion... Laws effect me regardless of my beliefs... thus they are trying to change my life, and thus I hate them both a great deal.

 

[skeanthu]

Eh don't sweat this, in 10 more years Christians will be the extremist/terrorist in games. By then Muslims will have finished taking over Europe; and have a majority party stranglehold on the U.S. Congress and Senate.

 

[Theninja'skatana]

oops it didn't show his name my bad

 

[Lepre-Khan]

Agreed.

 

[TimeLord75]

maybe if moderate muslims took a more front and center position against extremists, and took back your religion from facists that seek to define it and jihad as some war against non believers, instead of the internal struggle with faith.

back when christianity was putting philosophers and scientists and jews to death as evil and non believers. islam welcomed science and other faiths.

sure does not help the islamic cause when chrisitans on one hand are often ridiculed and made the but of jokes and downright belittlement they take more or less with a grain of salt. but south park dares use the name and "image" of muhammid and they get death threats pouring in so they have to bleep even the name.

islam can be a beautiful religion and people that follow it can be caring generous and accepting even of non believers, but far too often do the vocal minority of the extremists rise to the top and belittle the rest of you.

This. I'm real sorry, but however beautiful Islam may be as a religion (and I'm sure there are loving, caring & generally accepting people of faith in Islam), it's still a religion. This means its core is based on the belief that a Big Daddy Figure In The Sky wrote (or in this case, dictated to an illiterate) Everything You'll Ever Need To Know, Ever. (Seriously, that's one of the tenets of Islam--everything you'll ever need to know about the world and how to interact with it is contained within the Qu'ran.) So long as religion maintains its stranglehold over the Middle East (and the West as well, actually), any kind of peace or "live & let live" is extremely unlikely.

On a related topic--the Community Center presently under construction in NYC--I fail to see why Muslims should be so upset over popular resistance to it. Let be honest: How many Christian churches are constructed in Muslim countries with fanfare and confetti?

If Islam truly is a religion of peace, love, understanding and acceptance of "the other", then damnit, PROVE IT. Reclaim your faith from the extremist mullahs and the psychopaths with the AK-47s. Don't just shrug and wriggle and whine about how "it's just a small but vocal minority...". Take the hint. Be vocal.

 

[The Big Eye]

It is hard to ignore a lot of the things that radicals do. That is the main problem with any religion. That there will always be people blindly following something and taking it to such an extreme that they are willing to kill over it. People need to think freely, decide for themselves if they want to die for no reason.

*facepalm*
The only difference between radicals committing crimes and ordinary, run-of-the-mill psychopaths committing crimes is that the religionists get more media attention. Same deal with violent video games.

Does being a gamer make you violent? Hell no. Does being a Muslim make you violent? Hell no. Does being from Texas make you violent?

...Jury's still out on that one.

Being Texan or a gamer has no ideology to conform to, it's just not comparable. The difference is there is a source of inspiration for religious violence deeply routed in the ideology. You would have to ignore a lot of evidence to equate Islamic terrorism with random psychopaths, they are gullible but quite sane.

No, the source of the inspiration is, at its heart, a hatred of Americans and American ideology. The teachings of Islam are antithetical to most of the practices of the Taliban, except by radical reinterpretation. In this case, the religion is used as a tool. Patriotism, money, ethnic pride, or any number of other incentives could have been used. My point is that the issue is far too complicated to blame on any one particular factor, be it Muslim religion or Arab culture, and if one does the conclusions one will reach are no better or morally justifiable than those of the Taliban themselves.