My Only Problem with Reach

[Naota_391]

Halo gave up on story after the 2nd one...gave up on gameplay/level layouts after the first....

Wrong. :/

 

[Diver Down]

I agree. I mean, sure I got sad, but I could have been WAY more impacted by each character's actions if the game was a bit longer and you had more time to get to know the members of Noble Team. The closest they get to good development is Jorge, and they kill him off first! But you knew the most about him; there was some animosity between him and Emile and it shows you how much he cares for the Planet Reach. Just that fact alone ties him to the culture of the planet, and gives him some depth. Ironically, Kat, who you spend the most time with on missions, is not as developed as Jorge. All you really know about her is that she lost an arm doing something, she's close to Carter and she's the computer lady of the group.

so, in conclusion; I agree, but Jorge almost got there.

 

[darkgryffon]

dude they could make an rpg out of halo, i mean sure you would have to mix the halo style fps and the mass effect sort of story telling but im sure it could work, only issue is that companies would never take, its to big a risk -_- god damn companies not making good games because of the "risk"

 

[ShadowsofHope]

Spartan II's were started well before the covenant were discovered actually. They were first made to fight the insurrection(you hear about them in the beginning of the game). Then the Covenant came, they were re-assigned, and humanity needed more Spartans. Hence Spartan III's. Cheap, mass produced spartans. They were the ones in the Ghosts of Onyx novel.

Also note that the Spartan III's were designed to be more stealth/infiltration supersoldiers (semi-reflective camouflage armor, no less), while Spartan II's like the Master Chief were made to be front-lines taking the brunt of the attack supersoldiers.

@Whomever mentioned the helmets - Spartans are supposed to be seen as invincible protectors of Humanity by all others. If they consistently ran around with their helmets off, they'd simply be viewed as "normal" human beings in super-powered armor, which would defeat that purpose. Also, where do you think the HUD is displayed on?

@Whomever mentioned Cat's death - It was the massive EMP shockwave from the nearby plasma impact that disrupted and torn down the shield network power in the armor for a time. She got shot just moments after running from the explosion with the others. There was no time to try to fix her shields, allow them time to regenerate, etc. A single needle from a needle gun in the books is enough to stab through metal thinner than general vehicle armor and human flesh at the same time with little effort. If it had been the original needler gun, and not the rifle version, her head would have just.. exploded instead.

 

[Awexsome]

JO

I agree. I mean, sure I got sad, but I could have been WAY more impacted by each character's actions if the game was a bit longer and you had more time to get to know the members of Noble Team. The closest they get to good development is Jorge, and they kill him off first! But you knew the most about him; there was some animosity between him and Emile and it shows you how much he cares for the Planet Reach. Just that fact alone ties him to the culture of the planet, and gives him some depth. Ironically, Kat, who you spend the most time with on missions, is not as developed as Jorge. All you really know about her is that she lost an arm doing something, she's close to Carter and she's the computer lady of the group.

so, in conclusion; I agree, but Jorge almost got there.

Yeah I'm right about where you are, but honestly I think Jorge just barely did get there.

Maybe not if I had read the books and knew who Halsey was so was all happy when Jorge called her "mum".

But like your post said he did get the most development. On top of that he was usually the most useful actually in battle compared to everyone else for me.

 

[jaketheripper]

my problem is that there are only 1850 players online right now,wtf??????

 

[Kermi]

Halo gave up on story after the 2nd one...gave up on gameplay/level layouts after the first....

You apparently gave up on forming your own opinions after 2nd grade.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

....was that none of the characters were developed.

True, I was sad when Kat and the others died, but I couldn't really connect to the characters because the single player was short, and they weren't even around all that often.

I find this to be a problem with FPS, and shooters in general. Often these characters don't say much that isn't a taunt or something to advance the plot, and as a result you find it hard to sympathize with them.

Most other game series don;t have this problem, as you are often given points in the story to interact and just TALK with these characters.

Look at Mass Effect 2, we all love it (just a figure of speech folks), and 90% of the game is dialogue. Granted, its Bioware, but still, it would be nice to have some down time and be given some time to explore these other characters.

Exceptions to this case are people who appear throughout sequels and are given more chances to shine. Cortana, Soap, Wesker, all examples of characters who have developed somewhat over their game series. But this is because they live throughout. The whole of Noble team dies (well mostly) and none of them appear in any of the books, shorts, or comics, and they never will. I rally wanted to see Jorge interact with that Hungarian scientist more, I wanted to know more about Emile's history, but now I never will.

What are your thoughts on these topics?

EDIT:
This was not only a problem with Reach, just FPSs in general.
No, I miss Jorge too.
No, I was not expecting some deep characters, I'm just sad that they couldn't have been more developed.
How in anyway was Kat's death stupid? A sniper took her out from a place impossible to predict.
There were some other Spartans besides Master Chief who survived Reach, so it's too bad that none of the team besides Jun make it.
Kinda want a non-cannon Halo RPG like Mass Effect 2 where you assemble a team to destroy some grave Covenant threat.
Also want to know what happens to all these random A.I. like Dot, Serina, and the Superintendent.

the reason why everyone doesn't like kat's death, was it was completely random and had no purpose, just about everyone's death had some purpose or wasn't random, and it actually built up to the moment kat was just "*do do do do skipping along in the hallway* BLAT! *no shields?!?!*"

@ the no shields bit, see my above posts.

k saw it, and while i do realize that and can agree to the EMP bit, they could have portrayed it better with showing the shields getting wrecked, or they could've had her die a bit differently, i mean she died in a snap when everyone else went out the spartan way like a beast, but she just gets shot in the head and is done like that. and it was random too like we were saying before so its more of a "wow wtf that was dumb" rather than "damn that was crazy!!"

 

[No_Remainders]

You cared about kats death?

It was pathetic.

Spoiler

I mean, where the fuck were her shields?

She had only just put her helmet back on, so her shields wouldn't have been up yet.

Anyway, I liked the way the death was done.

Spoiler

It was so blunt, and it made me just go "Holy shit... Kat's dead... Balls."

 

[No_Remainders]

And yes, Reach totally fucked upthe canon.

When it comes to the Halo universe, the games are canon, not the books.

 

[Virus49]

Personally I love reach. The story was engaging and immersive and I genuinely cared about some of the characters.

Others not so much.. but isnt it like that for everybody in real life too? Some people you like and some you don't.

Jorge of course is the most likable character for me, so when the slipspace thing happened I was saddened! But I think it tied together reach > halo 1 quite nicely.
Ill have to get a copy of the mentioned fall of reach updated book...

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Halo gave up on story after the 2nd one...gave up on gameplay/level layouts after the first....

Wrong. :/

Halo gave up on story after the 2nd one...gave up on gameplay/level layouts after the first....

You apparently gave up on forming your own opinions after 2nd grade.

Oh really? Halo ep 3 has less single player content than 2,OSDT about the same Reach about the same.

MP content tends to be about the same it was improved on in 2+ but I do not play MP much if at all.

All in all Halo has gotten worse single player content wise, Halo 1 really was the plateau of the series.

 

[ShakesZX]

....was that none of the characters were developed.

Welcome to the modern world of FPSs. Unfortunately, story and character progression seems to have fallen by the wayside when it comes to larger recent titles, not just Reach.

 

[Dogstile]

You cared about kats death?

It was pathetic.

Spoiler

I mean, where the fuck were her shields?

Headshot?

Usually when one is sniped in Halo, shields are about as useful as a Scorpion without it's cannon. (Anyone else have this happen to them in matchmaking?)

Spoiler

Yeah, if you're sniped with a sniper rifle, not a needle rifle. The needle rifle doesn't kill in one shot unless there are no shields. It was slightly WTF because we never saw her shields go down in that sequence.

 

[imnot]

You cared about kats death?

It was pathetic.

Spoiler

I mean, where the fuck were her shields?

Spoiler

I believe the explosions and collapsing building they were trying to get out of disabled all their shields. It isn't explicitly said.

Spoiler

in which case, i'll just laugh about the fact that she had /just/ put on her helmet when that happened. Those things never do work do they? XD

i think the main point is to display loss and humanity

anyways..

Spartans never die, they're just missing in action.
(love that phrase)

I prefer
forklifts never die, they're just missing in action.
Also I liked Jorge and Kat the best.
Carter not so much.

 

[Kermi]

Halo gave up on story after the 2nd one...gave up on gameplay/level layouts after the first....

Wrong. :/

Halo gave up on story after the 2nd one...gave up on gameplay/level layouts after the first....

You apparently gave up on forming your own opinions after 2nd grade.

Oh really? Halo ep 3 has less single player content than 2,OSDT about the same Reach about the same.

MP content tends to be about the same it was improved on in 2+ but I do not play MP much if at all.

All in all Halo has gotten worse single player content wise, Halo 1 really was the plateau of the series.

In what way? Halo was was new and exciting but suffered from bland and repetitive (or simply rambling) level design in a few places. Great to play, but Halo 2 had far more variety (especially switching over to the Arbiter midway through - a huge and fantastic surprise in terms of storytelling). Halo 3 had some excellent vehicle sections but once again a couple of the levels rambled a bit - Tsavo Highway in particular. Cortana is also almost universally hated but that's probably because the level consists purely of Flood.
ODST was pseudo-sandbox but the contrast between moving around New Mombasa at night and the action sequences from earlier in the day was done quite well. This is the game where the actual story felt the most like an afterthought, but ODST was about a new experience, there was no real intention for it to stand as contribution to the trilogy.
Reach did an excellent job as a prequel. Anyone who feels it did not contribute well to the story and offer a worthwhile campaign experience at the same time probably rushed through it on normal difficulty (if at all) and jumped straight into the multiplayer.
Frankly, I don't think you've played a Halo game since CE and are basing your opinions of whatever tripe you've read on the internet.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Halo gave up on story after the 2nd one...gave up on gameplay/level layouts after the first....

Wrong. :/

Halo gave up on story after the 2nd one...gave up on gameplay/level layouts after the first....

You apparently gave up on forming your own opinions after 2nd grade.

Oh really? Halo ep 3 has less single player content than 2,OSDT about the same Reach about the same.

MP content tends to be about the same it was improved on in 2+ but I do not play MP much if at all.

All in all Halo has gotten worse single player content wise, Halo 1 really was the plateau of the series.

In what way? Halo was was new and exciting but suffered from bland and repetitive (or simply rambling) level design in a few places. Great to play, but Halo 2 had far more variety (especially switching over to the Arbiter midway through - a huge and fantastic surprise in terms of storytelling). Halo 3 had some excellent vehicle sections but once again a couple of the levels rambled a bit - Tsavo Highway in particular. Cortana is also almost universally hated but that's probably because the level consists purely of Flood.
ODST was pseudo-sandbox but the contrast between moving around New Mombasa at night and the action sequences from earlier in the day was done quite well. This is the game where the actual story felt the most like an afterthought, but ODST was about a new experience, there was no real intention for it to stand as contribution to the trilogy.
Reach did an excellent job as a prequel. Anyone who feels it did not contribute well to the story and offer a worthwhile campaign experience at the same time probably rushed through it on normal difficulty (if at all) and jumped straight into the multiplayer.
Frankly, I don't think you've played a Halo game since CE and are basing your opinions of whatever tripe you've read on the internet.

Halo 1 PC for me brought AI a new weaopn mechanics and some new for FPS AI combat style things like getting behind one of those big guys to hit a weak spot also it had fun and interesting vehicles plus a awesome neat story/plot, sure its generic but so is everything the mix makes it better/worse than others and Halo 1 had a great mix!

If Halo 2 was not buggy as sht or had better non corridoresqe levels I would have loved it glitches and all. Halo 1 on the PC mind you was near perfect aside from a few vehicle oddiests that frankly made sense to me(like vehicles not exploding but the driver getting ejected), the story and charatcers were pretty good for a sci fi shooter, better than Unreal 2,red faction 2 frankly the only thing I think that could have beat it was Half life either 1 or 2.

Halo 2 did expanded on the story some but it was to damn short so damn gltichy and much more bland mechanic wise than than Halo 1 even with the dual weaopn thing, also I LOATH auto aiiming....and you can not turn that off so you can lead a target.....

ODST was kinda fun in the generic mindless shoot im up sense but I am comparing it to a more full or whole game like Halo 1, even Halo 2 was better. Haloep3 tries in some ways(level layouts) to go back to some of the Halo 1 style of design but between most levels being bland and small(more so than they should be) the new weapons and story is not enough to push it above Halo 1 for me, Also in Halo 2 and up the AI felt a tad deaf and dumb at least more so than Halo 1. Halo 1 was a bonified flagship title the rest are just poor imitations IMO.

Now if you think is bad I think both fallout 3 and bioshock were damaged by design as between issues with equipment/inventory(BS has not,FO3 has little) skill and level issues for a 50 hour game(FO3) that was made and polished for the 10 hour main quest and just no real balance or pacing (both) made both games utterly generic lulz fests tho BS dose a great job with art/atmosphere the gameplay is a joke as is FO3 who's main design focus was breaking sht up so it either can be used for the very very very very short main story or DLC.....

I am very hard on games that try to be AAA. And this is coming from a insane person that loved Infernal for being super chesey and wonky developed filled with corridors and invisable walls and Necro vision with its it either killing you are not there AI and atrocious story/dailog that has some old school secret based hidden sht perlevel and enough zombie killing weapons to say why fight it when you can fck it :X *oh gaaaa fcking wif zombies....NNNOOO!!!! I did not say that.....LOL*

 

[zaiggs]

I was super disappointed by Cat's death. It did seem pointless especially when compared to the other Spartans of Noble team who all managed to die while sacrificing themselves to deal some "massive blow" to the covenant.

Also, my thoughts exactly:

"*do do do do skipping along in the hallway* BLAT! *no shields?!?!*"

That's the reality of war. Not everyone goes out in a blaze of glory.

Yeah, I know not everyone dies in a blaze of glory, but the fact is all the spartans did "go out in a blaze of glory" minus Cat. I guess it's just kinda strange to me. Could have killed off anyone else quickly without a chance to fight back or do something heroic, but it had to be Cat. Emile almost went out quickly, but then he did that awesome thing that everyone (including me) thought was totally awesome. Cat couldn't have done something awesome too?

 

[MetroidNut]

I had no real problem with Kat's death, but I was distracted for a moment from the "OHMIGOD" moment by the thought that a needle rifle shouldn't have gone through shields.

It doesn't matter if you can rationalize it, or come up with an explanation for it, the fact that no obvious explanation is given means it distracts the player from the drama.

More on-topic, I liked all of Noble Team. They didn't technically develop much, but I believe an FPS character is defined by actions more than anything else - in other words, to me, Jorge and Emile's deaths were character development.

 

[Turbo_Destructor]

I agree whole-heartedly with you. The game was a lot of fun, but the characters were so under-developed that it was difficult to care about them, even when they died. I though ODST, while being very short, still managed to have much more developed characters who I actually cared about... except for the sniper, he was an asshole.