My problem with the school system.

[ribonuge]

We all know that there is inherent flaws within every system but one about schools, to my mind, sticks out. In order to have a chance in this world of money and business you need some semblance of an education. Of course there is a few exceptions where people by luck or whatever means manage to have a stable income without having completed their school years but that is a rare case and one that I am going to abstain from referring to.

You go to school to learn from a very young age. You grow in that environment emotionally and intellectually due to academic teaching and socialising with other children. Then you get into high school/secondary school or whatever you call it in your country. You have never (at least in my case) done a test/exam and immediately you find that you have to study and adapt to this new environment. That's all fine albeit a bit crude.

Now the problem with the school system for me is this. Why is it that your whole life essentially is balanced on top of one end of year exam that you must do in order to gain entry into a college/university. It's like as though your life is presented to you on a platter and you are asked at the age of 17/18 to do some arbitrary test of knowledge for certain subjects that will determine whether or not it's going to be saved or thrown in the bin.

It is commonly known that seventeen and eighteen year old people aren't fully developed, be it emotionally, intellectually or physically. So why is it that the quality of whatever future you might have is determined by yourself at an age where you have more interest in video games, social life and/or drugs than the direction your life is going. I'm not saying that exams need to be postponed until the age of twenty one or that 18 year old people are incapable. I just think that you should be given more options. I don't have the solution as such but I know there is a problem.

There must be some system in order for it to work but I am not happy with the current one where thousands of intelligent people are left without a degree because they lack motivation or an illness etc. at that particular period of time in their lives. It just pisses me off.

In Ireland I have to repeat my Leaving Cert because I had problems with anxiety and depression last year and couldn't go to school. I still find it extremely difficult to go to school considering that. But I have to go and do my last exam or else I won't have a chance at college or a job. With the recession it is obligatory to get a degree in order to get a job. This year has seen the most applications for colleges than ever before which means that the points will go up for each course. That means I have to work even harder because college's don't have the capacity to take on more students for their courses.

The school system is abhorrent and I don't think it should determine what direction your life takes. You should.

 

[tk1989]

you do realise that you arent totally limited by your school results. You can still go to college and do short courses that will allow entry into universities. One of my friends didnt do too well at school, but now she is studying law at quite a respectable university as a result of a year in college.

 

[Julianking93]

You make some very solid points and this is one of my many many many complaints about the school system. I pretty much hate everything about it after middle school, which is why I left.

I didn't even bother with my GED, I just wanted to leave as fast as I could and I did. I'm now doing independent study and taking college courses in psychology and writing.

Something as arbitrary as a piece of paper shouldn't determine how your future will play out. Its a piece of fucking paper. That doesn't determine your intelligence, it doesn't show how smart you are, it doesn't mean dick. All it shows is how good you are at answering text book questions, which I can understand if the particular career you want requires that, but it holds almost no credibility for anything else.

Your grade and the decision of how your future will play out should be determined by your learning skills, personality, and social ability, not what some arbitrary test says.

 

[derdeutschmachine]

The school systems may be flawed but when I went through i just made it work. In high school I failed miserably, then in college I graduated with a 3.1 GPA with a bachelors degree. In the end I threw my degree out the window and took a trade job as an electrician. If you're worried about having job security look into the trades theres always going to be jobs like that.

 

[ribonuge]

you do realise that you arent totally limited by your school results. You can still go to college and do short courses that will allow entry into universities. One of my friends didnt do too well at school, but now she is studying law at quite a respectable university as a result of a year in college.

Yes but in Ireland you have to wait until you qualify as a mature student. Regardless with the recession it is increasingly more difficult to get into university. Oh and you need to have done Irish as a subject in order to get into 90% of colleges. It's bullshit.

 

[Funkysandwich]

I have similar problems with the school system here in Australia.

I was in a private school from years 7-10, then, because of financial reasons, I ended up in a public school.

The public school system is awful. Not because of the teachers. I had more capable, approachable teachers in my public school then I did in the private one.

It's the students. The teachers had no control over them. I was basically an outcast. I had a small group of friends that weren't in any of my classes, and that was it. I was bullied verbally, and physically, until I punched a guy in the face and they decided it wasn't a good idea to fight me. I was still intimidated on an almost daily basis by large groups of students.

You can imagine the impact that had on my school performance. My parents blame video games and skipping class for my poor marks. The reason I skipped class to come home and play video games was because I didn't want to face going to school.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

I remember when we had an assembly from our vice-principal trying to reassure us about the upcoming exams. He had a roll of toilet paper which he unravelled through the session. I had a black felt tip line for birth, a black felt tip line for death, and a massive orange highlighter mark for 18. (The mark for death was somewhere around 80-90)

He was trying to reassure us that the exams were not even at the beginning of our life, but at exactly the same time told us that they were the most important thing we would ever do. He said this in the same sentence, leaving us all thoroughly confused as to whether we should worry or relax.

For the record, I agree with you, I think pushing children towards one fixed point on which their entire future rests is an arcane and barbaric practice better suited towards the days when we pushed people towards knighthood. I think it stunts creativity, destroys individuality, and is a breeding ground for mental disorders, stress based illnesses, and underage drinking problems. Screw the bad parenting and videogames, the entire system is pressurising children into drinking!

But as Churchill said (paraphrased and altered) 'it doesn't work, but it's better than any other option.' Without a system we'd have anarchy, and no way of telling if anyone was better suited for one job or another (say what you like about not letting children take a subject that they want, but would you want someone with very little mathematic or engineering skill working on a car because he loved cars as a child?).

I think the system could stand to be more lax, and less based on scores which really mean very little, but I can't honestly think of a better way of doing it.

 

[Chipperz]

This is exactly, exactly the problem I have with the school system. I mean, I'm 17, and I've left school because it's just too insanely stressful and hypocritical in places.

I'm studying for the Leaving Certificate by myself, but I'm pissed off, do you know why? Because 'External Candidates' like me, cannot hand in History projects. We just can't do it, the bureaucracy doesn't allow it.

That's 25% of my History exam, which is my best subject. Because of this, I probably won't be able to get the points to go to college. Not that I will anyway, because all the points have gone up.

The teachers do nothing, nothing useful at all but scare you about how if you don't pass the exams, that's your life fucked, and the worst part is I'm actually starting to believe it.
Not to mention the fact that when you're a teenager, you're going through incredible hormonal imbalances and surges, which can lead to depression and anxiety just by default!

Having to worry about choosing what direction your life is going to take during that time is obscene.

They should analyze you throughout your schooling and give you a grade based on your general personality and learning skills, not some totally arbitrary exam that a lot of people are too nervous to do properly.

All this means that in 2 years, I probably won't be in college, nor will I have a proper job. The only people who can get this sort of stuff are the rich kids who can afford private tuition, because the normal curriculum barely gets you the exam on it's own!

So I probably won't be on here in about 2 years, because I won't have money to pay for the internet. Thank you fucking Fianna Fail government!

Dude, for what it's worth (very little, I know), I was in the same boat a few years back. I managed to get into university because the course I'd chosen was underpopulated, but it was all because I'd been told that "university is what is needed to go anywhere in life". I dropped out at the age of twenty after a year and a half and became so depressed because I thought I'd fucked up my life that I barely left the house for a year after that. I finally managed to get a string of shitty admin jobs, which made me more depressed because office workers are universally bad people, second only to their bosses (and bank managers) in the legions of the hellbound.

Now, three years later on, I've got back into college with nothing like the grades I needed to get on the course because I got a tutor who pushed me (and half the rest of the students) through. While it may take a special tutor teaching a course you're really passionate about, college isn't that hard to get into, even if you're as fucking stupid as me!

 

[MintyNinja]

All I can really add is that you were damn lucky not to have any tests in elementary school. My 7th grade teacher had us study maps of each and every continent and region in the world so that we would be able to name the country and it's capital. He also had us study all the sea life off the western coast of B.C. (my province(Canada)) for us to earn our trip to the Queen Charlotte Islands (12 day field trip). I was a little over prepared for my first couple years of high school (no middle school in that city).

 

[tk1989]

you do realise that you arent totally limited by your school results. You can still go to college and do short courses that will allow entry into universities. One of my friends didnt do too well at school, but now she is studying law at quite a respectable university as a result of a year in college.

Yes but in Ireland you have to wait until you qualify as a mature student. Regardless with the recession it is increasingly more difficult to get into university. Oh and you need to have done Irish as a subject in order to get into 90% of colleges. It's bullshit.

come to the uk then

 

[Zac_Dai]

The State school system is pretty much designed to turn half of its students into middle management material and the rest as supermarket shelf stackers. A few make it out to be something awesome.

You'll notice that those people with the best jobs and careers generally all had private and specialist education. No idea how private schools are different but they sure seem to give better results.

Also I'm 23 and still have no idea what I want to do with my life career wise so how the hell I was suppose to decide at 16-18 I do not know.

 

[Layz92]

I don't have much respect for the whole school end of year exams/"most important year of your life" system. I dropped out in 12. I have no doubt I could have completed it to a satisfying level but it isn't what I WANTED to do. So I did a starting cert for networking that covered the prerequisites for a diploma, and now I'm in the diploma with less work to do cos I don't have to do said prerequisites in the course. So in summary, screw school. If you want university then you need it, if not then go to tafe/college instead.

 

[Carlston]

Look at Japan. You fail the big High school test your a janitor/laborer for life.
Kids kill themselves off blowing that test.


Look at the USA, they push kids ahead who can't even do math. All in the fear their school will lose funding. Get this, if kids fail a exam you LOSE funding. Huh? If the school needs more resources wouldn't you give MORE?

Then the US colleges will accept the people who can't count, leeching them for pre-classes in math for 1200-1800 to catch them up. Which is crap since if you fall behind it's your fault, the professor is to busy to help and your modivation to learn is now shelling out ANOTHER 1200-1800 bucks. And if you pull that out, jacking college prices almost 600 percent higher than if the US kid say... went to Ireland.

Sadly the status quo waits for no one.

 

[LeonLethality]

I rather like the case that tests are your main marks and not doing your homeworks only consequence is not knowing what to do on the exam

My main problem is that (at least here) you get passed until grade 12 no matter how bad your marks are (the only way to pass grade 12 is to get your diploma which you must earn)

 

[Malkavian]

I agree very much with you. Here in Denmark, you complete your finals in High school, and that's it. Whatever average score you get there, determines what educations you can apply for later. The stupid thing is, you can esily retake subjects after that, but no matter what grade you get there, it won't effect your average.

I, for an example, got an average average(heh), due to being terrible at german and one of my science classes. I could retake those subjects, and score our equivallent to A's... And I'd still have a bad average, even though I'm good all across the board of subjects. I think it's one thing that young people that aren't "ready" have to secure their futures at an age they can't be fully expected to, but it's even worse you can't do anything about it, even if you do. It's just wring that you CAN work hard to better yourself and your qualifications, but that you can't get the documents to reflect it.

 

[Kedgeree]

Now Scotland, that might be fun.

I've always found the Irish to be significantly more awesome than anyone else.

Anyway on topic: I can't really complain about the education system. There are random times where I enjoy it, and moments where I wish it didn't exist.

High School was getting way too hard for me so I left at the end of my 5th year (and only failed one exam even though I thought it would have been more). Of course because of that choice I was stuck in the middle of getting a job and going to College. One of my problems is that because I never looked up to anyone when I was growing up. I never had any times where I went "I want to be just like X,Y or Z." (Being letters must be awesome though).

This of course meant I had to get some Careers assitant from my school to help me, I was either given the choice of a Commis Chef (after I explained I'm good with cooking) or going to a College. I tried the job first, made it to the second interview. But nothing...

Thankfully I had also applied to College during that time as well, after I went for an interview there I was given an definite placement because of "how good I was" (I honestly think I'm terrible at everything, which is why I put the "" there).

I don't really miss High School. The atmosphere at College is much better to me, no idiots constantly irritating people and such. But I do sort of miss some of the stuff in High School like my friends.

As for School determining what you should do in life...

No. I don't agree with that. I just see qualifications as something that backs you up when it comes to interviews. Not something to say you can plug in a few commands or divide by zero. (Yeah, bad humour...)

 

[willard3]

Also I'm 23 and still have no idea what I want to do with my life career wise so how the hell I was suppose to decide at 16-18 I do not know.

Usually you go to college/university to figure that part out. Even if you declare a major/first before your first term, tons of people still end up switching majors. The rare kids that DO know what they want to do right out of school often plan on the military or a specialized trade (my buddy always knew he wanted to be a firefighter and went straight into fire academy after high school, e.g.).

I went into college as music education, dropped the education part my junior year and graduated with a straight music degree. Thought I knew what I was going to do with my life and worked for a year before deciding that wasn't what I wanted.

Now I'm in graduate school, and I'm in the middle of changing my major after the first quarter. So I still don't know what I want.

EDIT: The point of this was to say that you should get out there and do SOMETHING instead of complaining "I don't know!" and doing nothing. Trying and changing your mind is better.

I really just posted because this thread made me sad for two reasons:

1. 'You kids today' should be a little more prepared for life by the time you're 18. It's not society's problem you spent your teen years on 'social life, drugs, and video games' to paraphrase the OP. You're supposed to be learning life skills.

2. I have now aged to the point that I hold that opinion.

Yay.

"I'm going to make video games for a living!"
"Ok, so what languages do you know?"
"English, and I had 4 years of Spanish."
"...not quite what I meant...did you have any C++?"
"Nope, I had all B's and A's."
"...you might want to reconsider your career."

Or even better are the kids who think they'll go into pro sports because they were sort of good in high school. I hold LeBron James personally responsible for half of high-school dropouts. (and not just because my HS lost to him in the state championships)

 

[Hybrid Sight]

I'm in High School right now and I hate it. I just sit around all day sleep, wake up, ace a test, and then go back to sleep. Its not like I'm a super genius or anything (IQ of 127) but it really feels like a huge waste of time.

A few weekends my parents forced me to take the SATs. I had to waste a perfectly good Saturday to take the test. During the test I watched as a lot of the other students looked really stressed, and legitimately terrified of what their outcome of the test may be. That just isn't right one test should not determine everything.

 

[Aerodyamic]

You make some very solid points and this is one of my many many many complaints about the school system. I pretty much hate everything about it after middle school, which is why I left.

I didn't even bother with my GED, I just wanted to leave as fast as I could and I did. I'm now doing independent study and taking college courses in psychology and writing.

Something as arbitrary as a piece of paper shouldn't determine how your future will play out. Its a piece of fucking paper. That doesn't determine your intelligence, it doesn't show how smart you are, it doesn't mean dick. All it shows is how good you are at answering text book questions, which I can understand if the particular career you want requires that, but it holds almost no credibility for anything else.

Your grade and the decision of how your future will play out should be determined by your learning skills, personality, and social ability, not what some arbitrary test says.

I left without complete my final year/form/whatever you call it, and whether or not I could be considered intelligent or not, I became a tradesman, because at the time, that's all you cold do without a high school diploma or GED. Mind you, I've come to the realization that I provide one of those key elements that humanity requires for survival: shelter.

So when people rag me for be a 'high-school drop-out', or 'just a dumb roofer', I remind them that I'm the silly fucker that COULD be responsible for keeping their crap dry. You don't NEED a high school diploma to prove yourself, but there's lot of jobs and education out there that require it, and if you don't fancy building stuff (or breaking stuff) for a living, I'm sorry to say, you might be buggered.

But no, it's not really a good system, making your future hinge on that one set of exams, especially if you suffer from anxiety.

 

[Captain Pancake]

I do think it's odd to have us doing our most important examinations, highers, in one of our most unstable years, sixteen/seventeen.