My problem with the school system.

[Akai Shizuku]

The education system is shit and it's not on the right-wing government's agenda to change that. The government doesn't care to fix the system. They don't want intellectuals, they know intellectuals will challenge them. The government wants deaf, dumb and blind workers who will sit down, shut up, and do what they're told...while buying as much useless shit as possible. That's why the system is so bad.

 

[deus-ex-machina]

college isn't that hard to get into, even if you're as fucking stupid as me!

It wouldn't be so bad, but Irelands education system has suffered quite a few major blows recently, each of which combines to make me even less likely to get into college. They're thinking of reintroducing college fees too, which means I couldn't go to college because I simply couldn't afford it.

come to the uk then

Irish people don't get along too well in the UK, I know that from experience.

Now Scotland, that might be fun.

Irish people don't get along well in the UK? LOL, that IS a massive over-generalisation.

I'm studying for my Masters in Pharmacy at Brighton University. Out of the original 120 students, around 40 of them were Irish. Only about 40 Students were from the UK! The rest are from pretty much anywhere and everywhere (Norway, Turkey, US, Canada, India, New Zealand, Germany, Ghana, China, Greece).

This isn't a coincidence either. As far as I know, there are only two schools of Pharmacy in Ireland and not many people want to go to them for reasons you probably know better but they all get on fine here. But over the years, pharmacists who are now working full time have always said there were a large number of Irish and Greek students.

So other than the fees, you should come on over. I don't know how you would do for money, but they're always having parties and a lot of them can afford the petrol to drive EVERYWHERE so there's probably some funding out there. I know the situation is pretty similar in Manchester, but Brighton is generally a great place to live.

 

[inpachi]

I have never had this problem.. I do however believe that the school system is EXTREMELY flawed! So flawed in this matter that it might as well be useless! You see when i was a very small child like 4 months old i had a extreme fever which caused a bunch of disability's by frying my brain which ill refrain from telling but anyways i was in Special Ed for the majority of my life. Now whatever problems you see in normal schooling multiply that X5 and you get Special Ed..

Now this was in the 90s so it might of changed by now i dunno. But when i was in school regardless of what your problems were you could be a psychopathic maniac who has thoughts about murder every 2 seconds and they would treat you the same way as everyone else in the class.. They treated everyone under a GENERAL SET OF RULES which i find completely absurd when you have mental illness's and you are being treated the EXACT same way as some other person with a completely different disorder/s you are getting no help what so ever. In my opinion.. And when you started to have a episode. Or something instead of talking most of the time they just went straight into the holds.. Even when they did talk it was nothing but Psychiatrist mumbo jumbo!

Now imagine going through all of that. Then you hit like 13 and your starting to go to High School. Around this time i was improving my maturity was helping my disorders and in no way was my Pills or the Shrinks helping me. My mother was a big help during this time tho.. Anyways so i decided to try normal schooling i did a few classes in Middle School and i liked it! So i tried it and to my surprise it was nothing like i have ever seen! It was a complete change from everything i have ever known! And no one told me this.. Maybe because i was in Special Ed for the majority of this time. Maybe they prepare you for this kinda stuff in normal schooling.. So i barely passed freshman year.. Some time into Sophomore year i decided that the pills weren't helping me one bit AND THEY NEVER DID so i decided i was just going to stop taking them! And i did! The coming months after were probably some of the worst months of my life for my Mother and for Me my body was going berserk was so used to all this random medication and suddenly it was gone and my body was cleansing itself. And i had to adapt to a completely different way of living.. Which for me is one of the hardest things I CAN EVER DO is to change my entire way of living.. So like you could expect i failed Sophomore year and then failed JR year actually didn't get around to finishing it.. So some time around this time my Mother had a heart attack and the school system said that i wasnt gonna graduate at this rate so they told me to repeat Sophomore Year and JR or Drop Out.. And i decided to Drop Out take care of my Mother and then figure things out later.. And now its 3 years later.. My Mom is still sick but definitely doesn't need my help very much anymore.. I have lost all motivation to succeed in life. Whats the point? Everything from schooling to medication to shrinks to a social life to pretty everything. That they say will improve my life has failed me MULTIPLE TIMES... So this is current situation as of today!

 

[The Bandit]

ITT: A bunch of kids who failed out of school whining, and a bunch of kids in good colleges defending it.

 

[Robyrt]

Contrary to what they tell you, high school does not determine the entire course of your life.

I have known many people who did poorly on the standardized tests, then wound up at the exact same place as I was after they'd figured out what to do with their life. On the other side, I had perfect test scores, effortless good grades, and a prestigious college education, and still wound up in a cubicle next door to the self-taught high school dropout.

 

[ribonuge]

The education system is shit and it's not on the right-wing government's agenda to change that. The government doesn't care to fix the system. They don't want intellectuals, they know intellectuals will challenge them. The government wants deaf, dumb and blind workers who will sit down, shut up, and do what they're told...while buying as much useless shit as possible. That's why the system is so bad.

Yeah I completely agree with you there. They just want you to get in line for the next product on the market. They want you to be productive, happy and ignorant while maintaining the illusion that you are free.

 

[Mayonegg]

To apply a quote from Churchill and another guy above: "[the school system] is the worst form of [schooling] except for those that have already been tried."

It's not perfect; it asks so much of children (at around 11, 16, 18 years old) and most aren't aware of the importance of that tiny event.

Examinations, it's true, are not the best indicator of intelligence. But a good exam is excellent example of commitment, dedication, planning (in terms of revision) as well as literacy, cognitive reasoning and knowledge and application of information. In short your exams result are an excellent indicator of your overall intelligence within the subjects you've studied (which I may remind you, often you pick).

I'm more concerned about the UK government's hilariously short-sighted notion that 50% of school leavers should attend university. So what do they think people are going to suddenly become cleverer just because they say so?

No. What happens is to fill the quota (as well as naturally increasing population), classes get bigger or briefer, tutors are more busy, and bullshit degrees are conjured up (Hospitality? Event Management?) So whilst these people are attending university instead of working, that means more stress on the economy doubly.

 

[DuckAvenger]

Just wanted to make three points

Some people are better in academic study at the age of 18, and some are not. Some people do well in tests, and some do not. Life is not fare. I am sorry if some of you had a bad experience with your test, but.... get over it. If you didn't study, you can only blame yourself.

I don't personally know, but Wikipedia says (and I doubt Wikipedia as much as the next one), that even in soviet Russia, you had to have graduated secondary school to get into university. So it seems it isn't only the right-wing governments that are keeping you down.

I really like how people from all over the world can come together and say that their country has a crappy education system. I am from Finland, so I think our system is just fine.

 

[Riobux]

There's also the problem that it forces people to not so much learn than to jump hoops like a good little dog. For instance, I wanted to learn and study Autism for the final exam for the clinical psychology side of the A2 psychology course. I couldn't, because it didn't fit nicely under the anxiety, affective and psychotic categories. I tried to convince the teacher that Autism may go under the anxiety category because it can cause social anxiety. Well, one thing led to another and I was denied.

It also discourages individuality since it's all boiled down to grades. It becomes increasingly hard as people are meant to judge art and boil it down to a grade. Things like art especially, can't be boiled down to a series of letters as the whole central idea of art is a freedom of expression and interpretation. This problem decreases somewhat as you shift away from the expressive subjects to more academic subjects, but still tries to go with a singular set of opinions. Try to argue the concept of radical feminism or for the idea of institutionalised racism in a sociology exam and you'll be meeting an U at the end of the day for generally offensive comments. Which begs the question about the freedom of opinion in an exam that is centralised around opinion disguised in the form of "evidence shows".

 

[inpachi]

ITT: A bunch of kids who failed out of school whining, and a bunch of kids in good colleges defending it.

What right do you have to say that i am whining? I just stated my opinions and what i have been through and in no way whining.. I know for a fact that my life will be brought back from the rubble some day in the future.. I just dont see that day coming any time soon..

 

[Monocle Man]

Seems like Belgium is giving away seats for higher education compared to the other countries.

Finish secondary education and generally you're allowed to enter the school for a bachelor degree. That's what I'm told, at least.

Within two years I can confirm it. I went to a workshop organised by a college with my class, what I'm learning now on the subject of Electronics and ICT seems to be a pretty good prelude to what I'll learn in college.

 

[deus-ex-machina]

Irish people don't get along well in the UK? LOL, that IS a massive over-generalisation.

Well, not really a generalisation, more of personal experiences. The last 2 times I was in England, I got the shit beaten out of me by skinheads for no reason! It wasn't like I was going around the place shouting "IRA!" or anything, they just noticed I was Irish and beat me up. This happened twice, in two totally different places with different people. I still have a big gash in my leg where this guy kicked me with a steel-toe capped boot.

Bloody hell! Where did you go?

Believe me, that wouldn't happen in Brighton. And even back home in Staffordshire where people are as rough as pumice stones, they wouldn't do it. Probably because most of their grannies were Irish, lol, but even so, as I know England, people like the Irish.

As for the education system... I know it has its downfalls and when you get to university, it only gets worse, but I really don't think there's much room for complaints about the system. Millions of other people managed to get through the system without mental break downs or fretting. If you mess up when you do them first time around, because you're too lazy or because you're incapable of thinking about the near future, then you can always take them again.

Believe me, if you can't prioritise, no college or university who prides itself on giving you a qualification at the end of the course is going to look highly upon people who prefer playing games. Academics are professionals and they want the people who attend their lessons to want to be there. Whether you fail first time around, or not, it doesn't really matter to them as long as when you enter their class, you're willing to learn.

And unfortunately, that will is expressed by performing well in exams. In many cases, it doesn't matter when you pass them as I know many mature students.

I haven't mentioned illness until now, because there are mitigating circumstances. In High school, I had a friend suffering from depression. She was honest with the universities she applied to, still managed to do well in her exams and passed. My father passed away in my third year of university, but I was given mitigating circumstances and allowed to take them at a later date. I don't know if the OP is British, but from my experience, if you can prove your performance was affected due to illness or circumstances you couldn't help, you won't be punished for it.

 

[olcohalic]

college isn't that hard to get into, even if you're as fucking stupid as me!

It wouldn't be so bad, but Irelands education system has suffered quite a few major blows recently, each of which combines to make me even less likely to get into college. They're thinking of reintroducing college fees too, which means I couldn't go to college because I simply couldn't afford it.

come to the uk then

Irish people don't get along too well in the UK, I know that from experience.

Now Scotland, that might be fun.

Don't worry about country conflicts. It isn't like that anymore. If you go to a place that is deeply religious then maybe, but it doesn't work like that in England. The only thing we (not personally me) care about is immigrants from the middle east and stuff. But nobody does anything! We just moan and moan! No action. Anybody can just come into this country.

If you want to come, go along the south coast. Dorset is a freakin' dream to live in. Especially Bournemouth. Everything is in Bournemouth. And it relieves stress because there's a lovely beach, forest, main river - you name it it's here. And it's really warm.

Sorry if this is blatant advertising but you sound like you need to unwind, and I'm so glad my family moved here from Wigan, and I want loads of people to find out about it.. If you're unsure try a short holiday. Happy to help.

BTW: The system is silly, but the idea is that they sort the men from the boys, if you know what I mean. The ones who are well organised and good under pressure have no problem. So they know who are the best.

 

[powell86]

This thread is full of people who are complaining becuz they've gotten the shorter end of the stick. For every single one of you who didn't make the exams, there are many more who made it through the system, got decent jobs and get on with life. Those who didn't make it either try again till they make the grade, or whole day mop around complaining and whining about how the system is unfair, crying "we're equally smart but the system sucks and hence we are disadvantaged" etc.

Seriously, if you fail but many other pass, wad does that make of u? You may quote many mitigating factors e.g. disability, stress, family issues wad not. But at the end of the day, it still boils down to the fact that you didn't meet the requirements set out by society. Society doesn't live for you. Shit happens, suck it in. There may be samaritians out there who may help you make the grade but seriously, don't expect people to change just for your sake.

And lastly, to those who are complaining that they are being bullied all the time. Sometimes i really wonder how many of u guys are being bullied in school, and why you are being bullied as well. Again we look at the entire population. Many people grew up from the sch system unscathed, again is a few minorities complaining and whinning abt the system all the time.

A comparison, random people get murdered, robbed, raped, road killed ALL THE TIME. I don't see them whinning about the govt providing not enuff security measures (unless it is really blatantly obvious that security is lacking). Again i must emphasis, shit happens, you really should pick yourself up and jus try harder. You may feel lousy and defeated, but at least if you try again, your chances of succeeding is still going to be higher than whole day whinning about the system that is "unfair" to you.

 

[ribonuge]

So what you're saying is that, just because you're an idiot or a lazy ass, doesn't mean you should have opportunities taken away from you? Are you, by chance, a socialist? lol.

No that's not what I am saying. What I was trying to convey was that your life financially would be lacking due to an arbitrary set of exams. I probably should have made that clearer. I am not saying that money is everything- In my opinion I think it's stupid but it is important in modern society and nothing will change that. Why should one set of exams determine your life (and to please you) financially?

ps. Please don't call me a socialist

No, but seriously, I don't have a problem with THAT part of the school system so much. At least here in the States, not only are there a lot of great options to choose from with only a highschool diploma (and some without one!) but there are more than one way to go about getting a diploma and going to college. I think what you call "Leaving Cert" we call that SAT or ACT (two different tests that I would assume do the same thing). However, you don't need to take those tests to get a highschool diploma. They help you get into college. If you choose not to take the SAT or ACT, there are still other avenues of higher learning you can go into, such as community colleges, junior colleges, special institutions, or you can get a certificate in a particular field (Which differs from a degree - in most circumstances having a degree is more benefitial than a cirtificate, but you can still start a healthy career).

Lucky for you but that isn't the case over here. I was mainly trying to keep it general in order to include everybody. You must admit though, there are flaws with the educational system that need to addressed.

Either way, no matter what nation you're from, if you think something as arbitrary as a test will keep you back from your "true potential", you have a lot to learn about life. People these days seem to think that you need money to be happy... and the only way to make money is by getting an education. This is just wrong though! A job is a job, and you need to put into the right perspective WHY you have a job. It's to provide for yourself and family, not necessarily to find happiness. As an old proverb says, "First you eat to live, then you live to eat... But just because something is socially acceptable or legally right doesn't mean it is appropriate." The problem with western civilization, the way I see it, is what we think success is. As a popular song puts it, when success is equated with excess, the ambition for excess wrecks us, as the top of the line becomes the bottom line when success is equated with excess. If your time had been nothing but money, I start to feel really bad for yea honey, maybe, honey, put your money where you mouths been running if your time had been nothing but money. This doesn't feel like freedom. It isn't my dream. I want to live and die for bigger things.

Over here at the moment you need an education to get a job with the recession. Fact. And considering the rates of unemployment in America at the moment I reckon it is similar.

Sure it is nice to think there are bigger things and there are, but that doesn't detract from the reality that in our society we have to have money.

The rest of what you say is kind of vague. Excess?

I hope that your test works out for yea, but seriously, think about it.... there's a lot more to life than that damn test!

Thanks but I am well aware. I wasn't looking for a pep talk, I just wanted to have a rant about a crappy system.

 

[jubosu]

I hold LeBron James personally responsible for half of high-school dropouts. (and not just because my HS lost to him in the state championships)

My HS lost out in the semis i believe lol

Anyway after rolling through multiple HS in Multiple States it seems as though it just depends where you went some schools care others you are just a number. Even in one of the Private schools I attended I felt as though they didn't give a shit as long as we got them their money and passed the OGT(ohio graduation test).

This rightly pissed me off being as I was moving in from a different state having been unprepared, and finally being forced to take these tests as a Senior with all the sophomores who apparently have been preparing for a large amount of time. These tests however could be passed by someone who didnt pay any attention the entire four years and just has common sense and good luck.

In the end it turns out it was a waste for them to prepare and graduation tests are shit.

 

[oppp7]

I guess they figure that there are plenty of people that aren't having problems that they can choose for jobs that don't have issues. I mean, if you have serious issues then they should help you.

And now for the controversial part...

The problem with American schools is that they aren't opened the whole year round. Don't schools in other countries ignore summer vacation and just give more time off around the year? Maybe that's why they do better than us...

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Okay, here's the thing: The education system exists to give you a set of skills, expand your knowledge and your mindset and generally get you ready and useful for working as whatever you want to work as. Nothing more. It's not there to develop you - that's your job. You want something more challenging in English? Do what I did, and try and read Don Quixote. Research obscure historical events on Wikipedia. Teach yourself C++. Write your own fiction. Draw. Find someone you care about and have a relationship. But don't expect to have these thing's provided to you - for it is you who is ultimate arbiter of the person you are, and will become.
Don't mistake 'not providing every oppurtunity for' for 'stunting' creativity.

 

[The Bandit]

ITT: A bunch of kids who failed out of school whining, and a bunch of kids in good colleges defending it.

What right do you have to say that i am whining? I just stated my opinions and what i have been through and in no way whining.. I know for a fact that my life will be brought back from the rubble some day in the future.. I just dont see that day coming any time soon..

Do I lack a right to say it? Do you have a right to tell me I'm not allowed to say you're whining?

"I just don't see that day coming any time soon"

You've done nothing to convince me you aren't whining.

 

[Saskwach]

The end of high school test that I had to sit wasn't really one standalone test that determined my fate. It seemed like that, but it wasn't. The fact is, that test represented your chance to show how diligent you were over the last X years of school (I'd say 12, but you didn't really need to be trying for that long). Students brought to that test the work ethic and capacity to learn they'd developed over the years before. So while it seemed like "one test for life" it wasn't. Those kids who did well would clearly bring the attitudes and aptitudes that helped them to whatever high-powered course they were after. Those who hadn't probably wouldn't. It was simple with a little hard work to get into the respectable top 20 percent of those sitting the test, and even the top 10 could be blitzed without selling your life away to homework and study. Anyone below the top 20 wasn't really trying - and they could still get into a variety of uni courses.
What's more, once you get into uni it's (again) a matter of hard work, not that test. I knew a single mother at my old work who was studying law at uni decades after she'd done badly in high school. Every career, from philosophy to medicine, can be snuck into with enough time and effort.

Okay, here's the thing: The education system exists to give you a set of skills, expand your knowledge and your mindset and generally get you ready and useful for working as whatever you want to work as. Nothing more. It's not there to develop you - that's your job. You want something more challenging in English? Do what I did, and try and read Don Quixote. Research obscure historical events on Wikipedia. Teach yourself C++. Write your own fiction. Draw. Find someone you care about and have a relationship. But don't expect to have these thing's provided to you - for it is you who is ultimate arbiter of the person you are, and will become.
Don't mistake 'not providing every oppurtunity for' for 'stunting' creativity.

Hear, hear. I never had the temerity to blame my schooling for the sad state of my education, but it was clear that's how I was living: expecting everything would be handed out to me. It's not. Even in the field you're studying, it's your job to learn this shit beyond what they teach you.
Now I'm exercising, learning a language, contemplating a bass guitar...and none of these things came from some imaginary teacher telling me to achieve my potential. If the idea of being as boring and inept at 40 as you are at 18 doesn't terrify you, you won't do anything, school or no.