My thoughts on "Avatar"

[GeneralGrant]

If you haven't seen the movie, why bother giving thoughts on it?

 

[Kimarous]

there is so much more to the story then the plot synopsis, and to miss out on such a fantastic film over the idea that unlike most acclaimed critics, you'll hate it, is a terrible shame.

It isn't so much a simple idea so much as a rather strongly established notion. I absolutely HATE this kind of movie and no amount of padding and CG special effects will change that. "Acclaimed critics" are just as subjective as the rest of we humans, and even if they love it to death, I will still hate it death.

Besides, I still haven't seen or heard anything compelling beyond the plot symphosis (and I don't find that compelling anyway). As far as I can tell, that is just the aforementioned padding. When a 2h40m movie can effectively be summarized in a 30 second trailer, that is not exactly inspiring. If there really is "so much more", then apparently it's too insignificant to even be hinted at.

the only message i got from it was more along the lines of "killing people for money kind of makes you a dick"
he even says "back home i was a marine, here we are just hired guns, mercenaries, there's no honour here, no dignity" or something similar.
the bad overarching storyline is compensated for by being made up of lots of well written segments, if a bad story is well told, it ceases to be a bad story.

1) Quote the right post. The above has NOTHING to do with that you just said.
2) No, a bad story well told doesn't cease to make it a bad story. Maybe with some stories, but as a general rule, you are utterly wrong.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Avatar seemed like a horrid movie with empty story, unlikeable characters, wafer-thin hippy crap "message" that a 12 year old could disect and nothing that could make anyone THINK despite all this goddamn hype.

Specisl effects mean jack crap. I'm not impressed one bit.

Art does not have to make one think in order to be enjoyable.

On topic:

Deep breath...

THEY'RE. FUCKING. MERCS.

The movie does not say the military is bad.

It says one demented idiot with military history, one sleazy businessman and a bunch of greedy mercs are bad.

Mercenaries are a way to make the military look bad without pinpointing it on one particular army. Mercenaries are more or less guns-for-hire, a.k.a. A PRIVATE MILITARY! In other words, same difference. It still conveys the same message.

No, mercenaries are guns for hire. In this case, for a particularly nasty corporation.

The main protagonist was a marine, but got called into a merc job after his brother died (not a spoiler, it's the very first scene)

I have a buddy in the army and he loved this movie, not once did he think it was somehow debasing his profession.

 

[Sven und EIN HUND]

Well I saw it today and it's a case of you having to weigh "Do I want to watch a fun, great looking movie with pretty awesome action and one of the most spirefully determined villains ever (Seriously this guy could take on skynet)" and "Do I want to talk about a movie I haven't seen based on third hand opinions that people weigh out in advance to sound smart and observant because people will usually change their opinion based on press rather than a change of perception".

I chose the first one cause it's a great movie to see with people on a huge screen. Not sure how much of a difference the 3D made because I haven't seen it in "3-1"D.

Exactly. I haven't seen the film either, and for this reason I'm not about to author a wall of text starting with the fact I haven't even seen it. All of my friends say the film is excellent, so I'll probably be seeing it soon.

 

[Flying Dagger]

That is a horrible, horrible cliche Hollywood line. Do you really think that's good characterisation?

that line is never said, it's implied, and to be honest i have no trouble accepting that, or being preached to, because i have a set of fucking morals.

what i do have trouble accepting is the raised statement of genocide, which following a hasty google search isn't in the news. not even in the indonesian news, so either you know something the rest of us don't, or it isn't happening. either way i spend my days working tirelessly with an MP who does everything he can to stop human rights abuses in every country in the globe so don't give me that "our government doesn't help at all" crap.

Maybe with some stories

1. its a good 30 hours or so since i've slept, so cut me a break, and i thought the reason you didn't like it was because it was supposedly "preachy," under which my context makes sense. i think. makes sense to me at least.
2. this is one of those "some stories." every step of the way you knew what was coming, but it still manages to impress you when it comes.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Art does not have to make one think in order to be enjoyable.

On topic:

Deep breath...

THEY'RE. FUCKING. MERCS.

The movie does not say the military is bad.

It says one demented idiot with military history, one sleazy businessman and a bunch of greedy mercs are bad.

First of all, it's an analogy.

Secondly, you did not just say art. Oh god. I'm having relapses to the "are games an art form" thread. It's not art, go read that thread to see why. This movie is not art, it's a movie. Please don't make me argue this.

I have no desire to make you argue anything. Don't be so self important.

Your (or anyone's) opinion and what you think does or does not count as art makes no difference to me nor raise any desire in me to change your view.

As for spoiler boxes, quote this post and you will see how to do it.

Spoiler

Avatar is a piece of art, as is every movie

 

[Dys]

seeing as how I'm conservative myself

That was abundantly obvious from the whole "liberal is a dirty word" vibe of your peice.

I do agree with a bunch of what you said, however going off hearsay isn't ever the best way to reveiw. The main military leader seems to enjoy fighting, however the majority of soldiers are indifferent to it (ie they don't have any specific motivation to kill the natives). The head of the 'evil' corporation is hardly evil, in fact he exhausts every conceivable alternative to destroying the natives before he does so (making multiple attempts to negotiate with them and even funding the multi billion avatar program). The story was not particularly original, however that doesn't make it bad, just over done. But yes, ultimately the only groundbreaking aspect of the film was the visuals.

As for your comment about fox and Rupert Murdoch having 'liberal' messages (which this was not, the corporation was not evil) I'd direct you to family guy, the simpsons, american dad...in fact, all of comedy central. I seem to recall News LTD being saved by deals built off of the sucess of the simpsons, it is bad business sense for Murdoch to not appeal to the people who want to see these kind of shows. Also, as my dad is a senior transport manager of HWT (Murdochs first major company, it is based in Melbourne, Australia) I can tell you firsthand that this "environmental antichrist" drives a Toyota Prius (I'll skim past how that's all clever advertising and is in no way better for the environment) as he genuinly beleives they are a good thing. This may sound like complete blashphemy to you, but being a conservative does not mean that one cannot be an environmentalist or liberal (conservatives tend to contest change, thus the name. I'll go right ahead and assume you're living in America, a country built on the idea of liberty and equality which at the time, and even now, is an extremely liberal country).

 

[Kimarous]

Maybe with some stories

1. its a good 30 hours or so since i've slept, so cut me a break, and i thought the reason you didn't like it was because it was supposedly "preachy," under which my context makes sense. i think. makes sense to me at least.
2. this is one of those "some stories." every step of the way you knew what was coming, but it still manages to impress you when it comes.

1. Then just go to bed, then! I don't need to cut you a break; cut yourself a break and just hold off until later to reply! Sheesh, if you can't even think of something THAT basic, then how can I trust your opinion?
2. Again, subjective opinion. Stop cramming the "you'll love it" card down my throat. I have no plan to see it, so stop trying.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I have no desire to make you argue anything. Don't be so self important.

Your (or anyone's) opinion and what you think does or does not count as art makes no difference to me nor raise any desire in me to change your view.

As for spoiler boxes, quote this post and you will see how to do it.

Spoiler

Avatar is a piece of art, as is every movie

For your spoiler; WROOOOOOONG.
As for making me argue, saying I'm wrong is how to make me argue. And if that truly is your opinion, which is pretty bloody enlightened for this side of the internet, we shall agree to disagree *shakes on it*. We are now both expressed.

I never said you were wrong, only that my opinion differed.

One thing I've learned about the internet... people are stubborn, and it is pointless waste of time and energy trying to convince them of anything.

This applies whether it is you or them who is wrong.

Especially if it's a grey area with no certain proveable answer, which group, in fairness, the definition of 'art' falls under.

Also, you do seem to be more intelligent and articulate than your user name would imply.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Maybe with some stories

1. its a good 30 hours or so since i've slept, so cut me a break, and i thought the reason you didn't like it was because it was supposedly "preachy," under which my context makes sense. i think. makes sense to me at least.
2. this is one of those "some stories." every step of the way you knew what was coming, but it still manages to impress you when it comes.

1. Then just go to bed, then! I don't need to cut you a break; cut yourself a break and just hold off until later to reply! Sheesh, if you can't even think of something THAT basic, then how can I trust your opinion?
2. Again, subjective opinion. Stop cramming the "you'll love it" card down my throat. I have no plan to see it, so stop trying.

its confusing talking to two people, one says "stop trying to make me see it" the other says "tell me something to make me see it"
i can't sleep because i may lose my job or have to give up my internship, and i don't know what to do about it so i am nervous and end up wasting time on here til i collapse.

Yes because they Indonesions are going to tell us all about how they were massacring people, good one. I'll give you whatever crap I want good sir. I don't care if you worked with the Pope (actually that'd be pretty awesome), governments really aren't the figures you seem to think they are. Don't make me go through the last half century of humanity and point out the million times governments failed at acting on genocide.

I'm glad to bits that line isn't said, because it is shocking. You have a set of morals? That's lovely mate, that's for pointing that out. Guess what? I have a left arm. True story. Now can we stop stating the irrelevant? Good.

I don't like being preached to on generic crap like that. Actually, I'm just not a fan of being preached to, which is actually a pretty good reason for me not liking movies like this. I suppose that's just a difference between us.

Oh yeah, here's some PNG genocide for you.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/geno_pa.htm
http://www.koteka.net/

I think you need to work on your Google skills.

if you can't stand a movie that has a moral then thats pretty screwed up, did you hate the matrix for the running theme of "if you believe in yourself you can do it", did you hate star wars for preaching that "anger leads to hate..." etc?
as for the genocide... i was searching the wrong way round, misread your previous comment... but i'll raise it with the guy i work with, raise awareness and maybe it will lead to action being taken...
I resent the fact that people like you, announce that the government does nothing about these sort of things, because i work tirelessly (unpaid internship) to stop these kinds of things happening.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I never said you were wrong, only that my opinion differed.

One thing I've learned about the internet... people are stubborn, and it is pointless waste of time and energy trying to convince them of anything.

This applies whether it is you or them who is wrong.

Especially if it's a grey area with no certain proveable answer, which group, in fairness, the definition of 'art' falls under.

Also, you do seem to be more intelligent and articulate than your user name would imply.

Whoever shouts their opinion loudest wins!

Seriously though, thanks mate, very kind of you. I think I'm still embittered from my huge argument earlier this week. I do love arguing though.

Art really is a ***** of a subject to be arguing about since I'm pretty sure, these days at least, noone truly knows what it is but everyone thinks they do.

I should probably contact a mod or something to change it. I changed it on a different forum and forgot I'd left it on this one... sends a bit of a bad image, huh?

EDIT: Befriended for epic show of maturity.

Bad image...? not really, it just comes across to me like you enjoy Sniping and trash talking in COD, though that could be my relationship with and hatred of leetspeak, as opposed to your choice of name

I didn't know you had an argument this week. But it's a common occurence round these parts lately. Been in a few myslelf.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Personally, while I didn't find the movie all that groundbreaking in terms of story and characterization, it does tell a familiar story well and gives it some amazing visual polish. It's an entertaining spectacle and well worth a big screen viewing if you just quit listening to people who ***** about the movie being all flash and no substance.

 

[Flying Dagger]

if you can't stand a movie that has a moral then thats pretty screwed up, did you hate the matrix for the running theme of "if you believe in yourself you can do it", did you hate star wars for preaching that "anger leads to hate..." etc?
as for the genocide... i was searching the wrong way round, misread your previous comment... but i'll raise it with the guy i work with, raise awareness and maybe it will lead to action being taken...
I resent the fact that people like you, announce that the government does nothing about these sort of things, because i work tirelessly (unpaid internship) to stop these kinds of things happening.

What? I didnt say anything about having morals, I was talking about preachyness. In all likelihood, I'm probably just biased because the director ran off his mouth about what a huge moral statement the film was making in an interview, so forgive me if it isn't that prominant. I honestly didnt find Star Wars or the Matrix very preachy, maybe I would if I hadn't seen them when I was tiny, who knows.

Honestly, if you can get some action going, you'll be my hero, no lie. I understand you do, and it saddens me that you resent me for it. I'm saying this because I hate beaurocracy. It really is people like you who keep the system afloat with any degree of respectability, but sometimes I wonder if it's really worth keeping it's head above water.

What country are you from? I'm Aussie, and I bring that up because I know we'll never do anything for our neighbour's sake because it would jepoardise our cushy relationship with Indonesia. I know I'm cynical, but it feels more like realism to me. It's been happening for 40 years and we haven't done crap. Our media doesn't even touch it. It's actually heartbreaking. You just have more faith than me, that's all.

Bad image...? not really, it just comes across to me like you enjoy Sniping and trash talking in COD, though that could be my relationship with and hatred of leetspeak, as opposed to your choice of name

I didn't know you had an argument this week. But it's a common occurence round these parts lately. Been in a few myslelf.

Nah, I've gotten crap before for it. I've had it since primary school, so I guess it's just a meaningless name for me. Leetspeak is a piece of balls, but it was funny that one time at a LAN in year 5 and it stuck

I'm sure you wouldn't agree with my views in said argument, but it sure is nice to find someone who went straight for the "you can't convince me and I can't convince you" line. It's close to being offputting XD

UK... PNG is way across the world from us...
I've always believed things can be changed, and can't let myself be dissuaded.

the director said the film was making a moral statement? it makes as much of a statement as any other film where the good guys win. I didn't sense a moral being preached to me at all, less then star wars or the matrix did... but then i've seen those films a lot lol and i've only seen this once.

anyhow i'm feeling fairly collapsey now, i think i'll try to have a nice rest.

 

[CrysisMcGee]

Go. Go now and see it. Take your friends. Every one of James Cameron's films is awesome, this one delivers just as much, and more. If you've seen any other James Cameron film, aside from Titanic, then you know how good of a film maker he is.

Seriously, I was actually worried myself. The movie is better than the previews and trailers. It's better than the write-ups.

So go and see it now.

Movie Bob agrees. Go see it.

 

[StrangerQ]

I have watched avatar and one thing is sure... the plot is Cliché.. but clichés are not bad thing... they are bad when executed badly but Avatar does it so well that it doesent matter...
hell if i ever get to see HD version from my over sized screen... i will probly wet my pants with my drool as my jaw will drop off from awe (my jaw felt bit loose at theatre)

Movie Bob agrees. Go see it.

QFT

 

[CrysisMcGee]

there is so much more to the story then the plot synopsis, and to miss out on such a fantastic film over the idea that unlike most acclaimed critics, you'll hate it, is a terrible shame.

It isn't so much a simple idea so much as a rather strongly established notion. I absolutely HATE this kind of movie and no amount of padding and CG special effects will change that. "Acclaimed critics" are just as subjective as the rest of we humans, and even if they love it to death, I will still hate it death.

Besides, I still haven't seen or heard anything compelling beyond the plot symphosis (and I don't find that compelling anyway). As far as I can tell, that is just the aforementioned padding. When a 2h40m movie can effectively be summarized in a 30 second trailer, that is not exactly inspiring. If there really is "so much more", then apparently it's too insignificant to even be hinted at.

Allright, have you seen and other James Cameron film other than Titanic? This movie is an excellent film and has a decent storyline.

I was worried myself, but you know why I saw it? It's Fucking James Cameron. The movie is excellent, and you should go see it. ***** and moan and be cynical all you want, just chill, relax, and enjoy the movie.

Do not pass judgement until you have seen it. The movie is a lot better than the trailers show.

 

[Kimarous]

there is so much more to the story then the plot synopsis, and to miss out on such a fantastic film over the idea that unlike most acclaimed critics, you'll hate it, is a terrible shame.

It isn't so much a simple idea so much as a rather strongly established notion. I absolutely HATE this kind of movie and no amount of padding and CG special effects will change that. "Acclaimed critics" are just as subjective as the rest of we humans, and even if they love it to death, I will still hate it death.

Besides, I still haven't seen or heard anything compelling beyond the plot symphosis (and I don't find that compelling anyway). As far as I can tell, that is just the aforementioned padding. When a 2h40m movie can effectively be summarized in a 30 second trailer, that is not exactly inspiring. If there really is "so much more", then apparently it's too insignificant to even be hinted at.

Allright, have you seen and other James Cameron film other than Titanic? This movie is an excellent film and has a decent storyline.

I was worried myself, but you know why I saw it? It's Fucking James Cameron. The movie is excellent, and you should go see it. ***** and moan and be cynical all you want, just chill, relax, and enjoy the movie.

Do not pass judgement until you have seen it. The movie is a lot better than the trailers show.

I have not seen Titanic, and while I have not watched the first two Terminators from end to end, I acknowledge them as iconic. That's the extent of my James Cameron experience. "It's Fucking James Cameron" means jack to me.

The fact of the matter is that, whether or not the story is told well, I hate the KIND of story it is. It could be the best country song in the world and it still wouldn't change the fact that I hate country music. It would be the tastiest sushi ever made and it still wouldn't change the fact that I hate sushi. "Avatar" might be the best telling of what I consider a "turncoat romance", but that doesn't change the fact that I really, REALLY don't like turncoat romances!

Is that such a hard thing to understand?

 

[CrysisMcGee]

there is so much more to the story then the plot synopsis, and to miss out on such a fantastic film over the idea that unlike most acclaimed critics, you'll hate it, is a terrible shame.

It isn't so much a simple idea so much as a rather strongly established notion. I absolutely HATE this kind of movie and no amount of padding and CG special effects will change that. "Acclaimed critics" are just as subjective as the rest of we humans, and even if they love it to death, I will still hate it death.

Besides, I still haven't seen or heard anything compelling beyond the plot symphosis (and I don't find that compelling anyway). As far as I can tell, that is just the aforementioned padding. When a 2h40m movie can effectively be summarized in a 30 second trailer, that is not exactly inspiring. If there really is "so much more", then apparently it's too insignificant to even be hinted at.

Allright, have you seen and other James Cameron film other than Titanic? This movie is an excellent film and has a decent storyline.

I was worried myself, but you know why I saw it? It's Fucking James Cameron. The movie is excellent, and you should go see it. ***** and moan and be cynical all you want, just chill, relax, and enjoy the movie.

Do not pass judgement until you have seen it. The movie is a lot better than the trailers show.

I have not seen Titanic, and while I have not watched the first two Terminators from end to end, I acknowledge them as iconic. That's the extent of my James Cameron experience. "It's Fucking James Cameron" means jack to me.

The fact of the matter is that, whether or not the story is told well, I hate the KIND of story it is. It could be the best country song in the world and it still wouldn't change the fact that I hate country music. It would be the tastiest sushi ever made and it still wouldn't change the fact that I hate sushi. "Avatar" might be the best telling of what I consider a "turncoat romance", but that doesn't change the fact that I really, REALLY don't like turncoat romances!

Is that such a hard thing to understand?

I was stating the reason why I saw it. That was my thinking.

Anyway, if you allow one thing to stop you from enjoying something, then so be it.

It's gonna get pretty interesting when somebody drags you to the theatre on a date to see a movie like that.

 

[Carnagath]

Okay, this may come off as rather ill-informed, since I admit right up front that I've not seen the movie Avatar

Stopped reading there.

That was abundantly obvious from the whole "liberal is a dirty word" vibe of your peice.

Thank GOD I stopped reading there.

 

[Coldman42]

I saw the movie, and i liked it.

If i had seen the movie and didn't like it, I would just say that.

Why do people always blow movies WAY out of proportion...