My top 10 gripes with Skyrim.
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Much as I think "I'm exploiting the game so it sucks" is a bad argument, this is a case in which the exploit is patently obvious and exists due to terrible planning and design.The_Blue_Rider said:
My biggest gripe? The ending...or lack thereof.
You go to Valhalla and fight a dragon. Then dead people cheer for you. The end. That's not a fucking ending. Thats the end of a side quest.
Oh, and the Blade Brothers are dicks in this game. Fuck you, I'm not killing Parthuunax. I'm a total whore for katanas and that awesome Blades armor, but I refuse to use either if it means I have to kill the only hope for dragonkind to end their war on Tamriel.
Oh, and the Blade Brothers are dicks in this game. Fuck you, I'm not killing Parthuunax. I'm a total whore for katanas and that awesome Blades armor, but I refuse to use either if it means I have to kill the only hope for dragonkind to end their war on Tamriel.
Now I think about it I would love a game where I have the option to run, hide and cry whenever I see an enemy. I should have the choice to kill everything or befriend everything or something but I could seriously relate to a character that ran past everything.Anthraxus said:
SpaceBat said:
Well, just because i don't share someone's opinion doesn't mean i'm not entitled to have my own. I'm prepared to back it up with some arguments, yet you must remember that's very, and i mean VERY subjective point of view. There are many people who like NV better. For me it's simply sh*t.70R4N said:
--- Please excuse me for striding into the valley of off-topic ---
<spoiler=regarding NV>Without spoilering too much - you're a courier who was supposed to deliver some package but instead you were shot to death. Almost. You survived, but you're supposed to find out who assailant was and why he did that.
Here's where my alarm bell rang for the first time. I mean "why ?". Why should i care ? Danger is part of this job and it's pretty possible that it was just random act of violence or something like this. Ask every taxi driver, or pizza delivery boy - life is that way from time to time. In the reality of post nuclear wasteland lacking hospitals, retirement plans, law other than law of the gun, and lifespan counted in years not decades, people have to let go some things to survive.
Later it's only getting worse. There's big world, but it's mostly cliched rag quickly stitched from recycled parts of numerous works of fiction. The world is dull, unconvincing, and it takes some amount of time until reaching "The Vegas" itself. And here's another dissapointment. It's not some metropolis in the middle of wastes. It's neither big nor interesting map unnecessarily divided into smaller regions which makes navigating through it repetitive and boring experience.
It's lacking any breathtaking views or at least places with some unique atmosphere. There are some bars, shops, uninteresting buildings, questgivers, pedestrains and neons. Nothing you could point on and say "damn, it was worth reaching here and seeing it with my own eyes".
"Broken Steel" DLC for Fallout 3 introduces much more convincing city - state.
While on that. DLCs for F3 alone are worthy of investing money into that game. I can't say that about DLCs for NV. They are boring experience at best, and as i see it, some people (even here on The Escapist) share that impression.
OT : Skyrims overpowered enemies.
Is running from fight and returning later, after recovering, with a few additional levels and some shiny equipment considered tactic unworthy of true gamers nowadays ???
Yep, too bad Skyrim takes place in a cold, harsh, unwelcoming country on the verge of at least two wars, also plundered by bandits, dragons, undead and such. The story should happen in the village of Smurfs instead !Anthraxus said:
Actually, no. I made it obvious that i find my own point of view subjective even despite it being shared by more than a handful people.Anthraxus said:
Also, it's 2011 you have all the time you need, google and stuff, and all you can come up with is "fanboy" ?
http://img1i.www.spoki.lv/upload/articles/15/153022/images/Pataisno-no-elles-2.jpg
Thats why I said not completely, that particular quest could have been done a bit better, i.e. someone directing you to a cave and you meet Barbas inside, then he wont leave the cave or somethingZachary Amaranth said:
1. The leap in difficulty from every monster in the game to the dragon priests (those fuckers are such a leap in difficulty that is annoying)
2. Dragons are lulzy, while Chief Bandits three shot me/Giants one shot me.
3. Script/Npc depth. Still needs so much work to engage me.
4. Storyline. It's still meh.
5. How bloody easy it is for your lockpicks to break.
6. Most magical branches are way unappealing and have a lot less reward early on compared to melee/archery. Destruction and all those branches just do meh damage unless you break immersion and grind it.
7. Stealth is op.
8. Quests/NPC's start with depth and then everything is rushed, see: Companions/Winterhold College.
9. The Holds and Towns are way smaller than what they initially appear (in terms of content).
10. Smithing- Only endgame content armour/weapons are worth it, and you can just mass produce Iron Daggers for it.
But my biggest tripe is by far: The best grey decision in the game (Civil War) is like that because as opposed to the entire game you lack reasonable options to choose from.
2. Dragons are lulzy, while Chief Bandits three shot me/Giants one shot me.
3. Script/Npc depth. Still needs so much work to engage me.
4. Storyline. It's still meh.
5. How bloody easy it is for your lockpicks to break.
6. Most magical branches are way unappealing and have a lot less reward early on compared to melee/archery. Destruction and all those branches just do meh damage unless you break immersion and grind it.
7. Stealth is op.
8. Quests/NPC's start with depth and then everything is rushed, see: Companions/Winterhold College.
9. The Holds and Towns are way smaller than what they initially appear (in terms of content).
10. Smithing- Only endgame content armour/weapons are worth it, and you can just mass produce Iron Daggers for it.
But my biggest tripe is by far: The best grey decision in the game (Civil War) is like that because as opposed to the entire game you lack reasonable options to choose from.
Naaaaaaaaah, this is Internet, either do your job yourself, or don't join discussions. You're risking heavy loss of ego by taking on tasks you're unable to complete.Anthraxus said:
That doesn't have to do anything with me having my own mind, especially if i'm able to back it up with some arguments, without throwing insults not only pointless but also old and lacking any finesse.Anthraxus said:
So, ...yeah, yeah, suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure buddy, have some tomato, it's good for your health...
1. Yes, but the idea is TO BE ABLE to one-shot enemies without them seeing you, because you can level up your sneak so quickly that by the time you can do 15x damage with a backstab, conventional combat is not really an option due to all the enemies having scaled to be harder to accommodate your assassin playstyle. i.e. you really run yourself into a niche if you go stealth.Nomanslander said:
2. ...if you can't be bothered with elemental resistances. Which, by and large, I can't, so fair point. There have been a number of times where I've been happily slaughtering Forsworn when suddenly a bloody Hagraven fireballs my previously comfortable half health.
3. I see few other ways on consoles to switch between weapons considering the variety of options in Skyrim. What would you like to see? Cycling through all the debris you've picked up until you get to the weapon you want to use? This part of the game was designed for PC, with hotkeys conveniently assignable, but being a PS3 user myself I make do with their pause tactics.
4. Agreed, but would you rather have enemies that doggedly tracked you down as soon as they saw your arrow? Just like in MGS, I think it's a necessary evil. Although if enemies actually died from being shot through the head, then we wouldn't have a problem.
5. Well you sir have a f***ing awesome horse. Personally I find dragons quite hard with my assassin or mage, but my Two-handed Orc makes fairly short work of them. In all, maybe they could be a little harder...WHEN THEY F***ING LAND.
6. This is true, but once, the game actually noticed, and the target's inventory started getting worse every time I reloaded. At any rate, some items aren't even pickpocketable until you have a decent level of it. Lastly, game developers cannot be expected to compensate for people abusing the save feature. That is the user's fault. If you don't like it, DON'T F***ING DO IT.
7. Meh.
8. See 3.
9. Personally I don't get quite that many quests, but it's great to be able to have a different experience every playthrough, and I really enjoy the diversity. You can tell when a quest is scripted or radiant though...just sayin'.
10. I got really annoyed by his constant whimpering so I parted ways with him. But again, back to my earlier point. If you choose to exploit the immortality of Barbas the Dog then YOU ARE AT FAULT. It doesn't take that much self-discipline to just say "No, I am going to play the game in a manner that I enjoy instead". It's like pulling aces out of your sleeve and complaining that poker is too easy. Just don't F***ING DO IT.
So there you go.
1. Yes, but the idea is TO BE ABLE to one-shot enemies without them seeing you, because you can level up your sneak so quickly that by the time you can do 15x damage with a backstab, conventional combat is not really an option due to all the enemies having scaled to be harder to accommodate your assassin playstyle. i.e. you really run yourself into a niche if you go stealth.Nomanslander said:
2. ...if you can't be bothered with elemental resistances. Which, by and large, I can't, so fair point. There have been a number of times where I've been happily slaughtering Forsworn when suddenly a bloody Hagraven fireballs my previously comfortable half health.
3. I see few other ways on consoles to switch between weapons considering the variety of options in Skyrim. What would you like to see? Cycling through all the debris you've picked up until you get to the weapon you want to use? This part of the game was designed for PC, with hotkeys conveniently assignable, but being a PS3 user myself I make do with their pause tactics.
4. Agreed, but would you rather have enemies that doggedly tracked you down as soon as they saw your arrow? Just like in MGS, I think it's a necessary evil. Although if enemies actually died from being shot through the head, then we wouldn't have a problem.
5. Well you sir have a f***ing awesome horse. Personally I find dragons quite hard with my assassin or mage, but my Two-handed Orc makes fairly short work of them. In all, maybe they could be a little harder...WHEN THEY F***ING LAND.
6. This is true, but once, the game actually noticed, and the target's inventory started getting worse every time I reloaded. At any rate, some items aren't even pickpocketable until you have a decent level of it. Lastly, game developers cannot be expected to compensate for people abusing the save feature. That is the user's fault. If you don't like it, DON'T F***ING DO IT.
7. Meh.
8. See 3.
9. Personally I don't get quite that many quests, but it's great to be able to have a different experience every playthrough, and I really enjoy the diversity. You can tell when a quest is scripted or radiant though...just sayin'.
10. I got really annoyed by his constant whimpering so I parted ways with him. But again, back to my earlier point. If you choose to exploit the immortality of Barbas the Dog then YOU ARE AT FAULT. It doesn't take that much self-discipline to just say "No, I am going to play the game in a manner that I enjoy instead". It's like pulling aces out of your sleeve and complaining that poker is too easy. Just don't F***ING DO IT.
So there you go.
Way to single handedly kill your own discussion. Seriously? You might've had a point before, but when you throw out a BS argument like:Anthraxus said:
"Young'uns these days only play these terrible new games. Now, back in MY day everything was so much better..."
Way to sound like every other older generation ever, in the history of time.
Some of your complaints I can definitely agree with, others are more your fault. Abusing the save system? Yeah that's completely on you. If you don't like it, STOP DOING IT. Very simple. That goes for a few things
As for my complaints, yeah, the stealth system is completely broken. It's waaay to easy to kill things in 1 or 2 hits, and it's way too easy to disappear. Batman had a great stealth system, and it was simple. I shouldn't be able to shoot an arrow into every joint of a giant and they go back to a casual stroll.
One of my biggest problems with the game though is it's so damn linear. I've never had such a huge, open world with no fucking options! Why can't I get any diplomatic solutions to anything ever? Why can't I sneak in and rescue the guy instead of having to kill everyone and a boss to get them out? Why is every dungeon just 1 big tunnel? I'd rather have a third of the quests but actually have some options in them. Don't make it just seem big on the surface, make it actually a big place. Let there be 5 different solutions or outcomes to something, and for the options to always be open. If I decide half-way through that I want to switch sides because of some new information, let me. And not just cancel the quest, I mean switch sides, take someone down from the inside or whatever. Anything.
Nothing happens without me. 500 quests and half of them are identical, and they all make me trek across the country, running into another 47 quests, and someone starts talking with me as though it's been 5 minutes. It's been weeks, *****, both inside and outside the game. Who the hell are you? And then oops, turns out I just accidentally helped some cannibals. Well that's okay, I'll just go inform the guards or something, oh wait, I can't. I suppose I could just stab them all, but mindless violence gets so very old. Just more options. And for those options to affect things. The world is too static. I'm a dragon slayer, treat me like one. When I'm a hero or a villain, let me feel like one. -sigh-
That all said, I still think it's a fun game. It's good. But I'm disappointed, I wanted something amazing. I was expecting a great game, not a good one.
As for my complaints, yeah, the stealth system is completely broken. It's waaay to easy to kill things in 1 or 2 hits, and it's way too easy to disappear. Batman had a great stealth system, and it was simple. I shouldn't be able to shoot an arrow into every joint of a giant and they go back to a casual stroll.
One of my biggest problems with the game though is it's so damn linear. I've never had such a huge, open world with no fucking options! Why can't I get any diplomatic solutions to anything ever? Why can't I sneak in and rescue the guy instead of having to kill everyone and a boss to get them out? Why is every dungeon just 1 big tunnel? I'd rather have a third of the quests but actually have some options in them. Don't make it just seem big on the surface, make it actually a big place. Let there be 5 different solutions or outcomes to something, and for the options to always be open. If I decide half-way through that I want to switch sides because of some new information, let me. And not just cancel the quest, I mean switch sides, take someone down from the inside or whatever. Anything.
Nothing happens without me. 500 quests and half of them are identical, and they all make me trek across the country, running into another 47 quests, and someone starts talking with me as though it's been 5 minutes. It's been weeks, *****, both inside and outside the game. Who the hell are you? And then oops, turns out I just accidentally helped some cannibals. Well that's okay, I'll just go inform the guards or something, oh wait, I can't. I suppose I could just stab them all, but mindless violence gets so very old. Just more options. And for those options to affect things. The world is too static. I'm a dragon slayer, treat me like one. When I'm a hero or a villain, let me feel like one. -sigh-
That all said, I still think it's a fun game. It's good. But I'm disappointed, I wanted something amazing. I was expecting a great game, not a good one.
1. Pizza delivery boy isn't the one that prepares pizza for you.psivamp said:
2. As for NV writing - "to each his own". I don't like it, i find it primitive and full of cliches badly glued together. I had better fun with F3. Nothing can be done about it since it's a matter of opinions, not universal axioms.
3. Why are you even writing this ? It's not that Dr Zoidberg needs any help or support - as far as i understand english, there's no fight here only difference in opinions.
well I didnt expect to much from skryim after my oblivion experience, and I probably havnt played enough ti properly judge but...
my main probalem is the same with oblivion....my charchter, why does she do anything? after my epic escape its just "ok go do this"
"hold on a sec..you dont know who I am..why are you trusting me?" and then just more "go do this"
WHY?
yeah I know this sounds stupid, its just me..I mean
1. Dark souls, I know WHY Im venturing out, I have no other options I must fight to survive
2. Fallout 3..I know WHY Im out wandering..I have been kicked out of my home, I have to scavenge for what I can (hence why I might go into a dark "cave" full of raiders)
2. Fallout NV....Im personally Involved, the platinum chip has been stolen from me and damned if Im not going to find out what this is all about
but Skyrim....It feels like "Im going into this cave of bandits because its a fantasy RPG..duh"
again this is less an actual critism and more a personal thing, overall I really dont know how I feel about skyrim
my main probalem is the same with oblivion....my charchter, why does she do anything? after my epic escape its just "ok go do this"
"hold on a sec..you dont know who I am..why are you trusting me?" and then just more "go do this"
WHY?
yeah I know this sounds stupid, its just me..I mean
1. Dark souls, I know WHY Im venturing out, I have no other options I must fight to survive
2. Fallout 3..I know WHY Im out wandering..I have been kicked out of my home, I have to scavenge for what I can (hence why I might go into a dark "cave" full of raiders)
2. Fallout NV....Im personally Involved, the platinum chip has been stolen from me and damned if Im not going to find out what this is all about
but Skyrim....It feels like "Im going into this cave of bandits because its a fantasy RPG..duh"
again this is less an actual critism and more a personal thing, overall I really dont know how I feel about skyrim
howbout you just eliminate no 6 yourself: as easy as that, making your 6th point invalid. you just chose the way of the cheat, i chose the way of an honest player, who does not cheat
That's really shi**y way to involve player into quests/subquests.Vault101 said:
"You're looking decently enough, here take this sword worth more than i currently have in my posession and take it to someone living near the opposite border of our country, there's no time limit and i won't tell you what the payment is".
That's the main reason why i abvoid FedEx quests at all costs. :|
I don't know why nobody thought about introducing "the Guild of UPS" in crpgs. First you enlist, then you take errands, before running with your package there's a spell of "do it or die" cast upon you "just in case" the payment awaits you upon your return.
It's easy to do, it's plausible, it's possible.
Lovely to see that my comments are being reproduced here from over on Rock, Paper, Shotgun. A little birdie told me that that was the case and I just had to drop by to see. >_> The comment about all of the genocide in Skyrim was mine, and I stand by it.
@JesterRaiin
Light that bulb in your noggin and think about this. The game encourages you to be a homicidal murderer at every turn - there are a bunch of bandits, but you can't arrest them, you can only kill them. The guards can arrest bandits, but can you haul them off to prison? Nope!
Does someone have something you want? Well, you could trade them for it, but no, the only option is to kill them for it. Is someone perhaps a possible threat in the future? Well, let's kill them! (That would be Paarthurnax.) It's all about genocide, it's like what a fantasy world would look like if you ran it through the head of a paranoid and incredibly extremist right-wing politician.
It's Palin Land, almost.
Sure, some deaths are unavoidable and I'll grant you that. But outright, cold-blooded murder should never be the first choice. It just shows the level of abhorrent anti-intellectuality that gamers have embraced over the years. But it's worse than that. This is a world that cannot possibly exist, because here we come to our ultimate conclusion - if everyone is killing everyone else at that rate, then you can't have a sustainable population.
If you have 90% of the population out to kill you, then that's some kind of popular revolution right there. Apparently most of the population of Skyrim is against what you're doing in one form or another. You're a scourge, a plague, you're passing through like a swarm of locusts, devouring everything and leaving nothing but an empty husk in your wake.
It just shatters the illusion of believability for me. My suspension of disbelief can stretch quite far being an imaginative person, but it can't stretch that far. It can't stretch far enough to honestly believe that you can make a sustainable society where every person in that society is a homicidal or genocidal maniac. Including the character.
This is what Skyrim asks me to buy into as a potential possibility, this is what it asks me to believe, but I just can't. No matter where you go in the world, whatever era you pick, there has never been a sustainable society of sociopaths and psychopaths. Yet this is what Skyrim is.
This is why it fails, for me.
All I ask for is a believable, intelligent representation of a fantasy world, but this is everything that Skyrim isn't. Fallout: New Vegas, for all of its post-apocalyptic furore, is a much more stable place. And there have been examples of RPGs set in snowy landscapes before, too. Check out the Icewind Dale series.
Really, the only way you could go into Skyrim and not come out of it realising what I've realised is if you enjoyed the genocide and homicide perhaps a bit too much. Which I didn't, really. It left me feeling hollow and saddened. Skyrim is a shallow experience because of this, and I hope that Bethesda will learn from this and perhaps try to create their next scenario around believable people, rather than, to say it again, a society of homicidal/genocidal maniacs.
@JesterRaiin
Light that bulb in your noggin and think about this. The game encourages you to be a homicidal murderer at every turn - there are a bunch of bandits, but you can't arrest them, you can only kill them. The guards can arrest bandits, but can you haul them off to prison? Nope!
Does someone have something you want? Well, you could trade them for it, but no, the only option is to kill them for it. Is someone perhaps a possible threat in the future? Well, let's kill them! (That would be Paarthurnax.) It's all about genocide, it's like what a fantasy world would look like if you ran it through the head of a paranoid and incredibly extremist right-wing politician.
It's Palin Land, almost.
Sure, some deaths are unavoidable and I'll grant you that. But outright, cold-blooded murder should never be the first choice. It just shows the level of abhorrent anti-intellectuality that gamers have embraced over the years. But it's worse than that. This is a world that cannot possibly exist, because here we come to our ultimate conclusion - if everyone is killing everyone else at that rate, then you can't have a sustainable population.
If you have 90% of the population out to kill you, then that's some kind of popular revolution right there. Apparently most of the population of Skyrim is against what you're doing in one form or another. You're a scourge, a plague, you're passing through like a swarm of locusts, devouring everything and leaving nothing but an empty husk in your wake.
It just shatters the illusion of believability for me. My suspension of disbelief can stretch quite far being an imaginative person, but it can't stretch that far. It can't stretch far enough to honestly believe that you can make a sustainable society where every person in that society is a homicidal or genocidal maniac. Including the character.
This is what Skyrim asks me to buy into as a potential possibility, this is what it asks me to believe, but I just can't. No matter where you go in the world, whatever era you pick, there has never been a sustainable society of sociopaths and psychopaths. Yet this is what Skyrim is.
This is why it fails, for me.
All I ask for is a believable, intelligent representation of a fantasy world, but this is everything that Skyrim isn't. Fallout: New Vegas, for all of its post-apocalyptic furore, is a much more stable place. And there have been examples of RPGs set in snowy landscapes before, too. Check out the Icewind Dale series.
Really, the only way you could go into Skyrim and not come out of it realising what I've realised is if you enjoyed the genocide and homicide perhaps a bit too much. Which I didn't, really. It left me feeling hollow and saddened. Skyrim is a shallow experience because of this, and I hope that Bethesda will learn from this and perhaps try to create their next scenario around believable people, rather than, to say it again, a society of homicidal/genocidal maniacs.