Mythic Founder Thinks Most Free-to-Play MMOs Are "Crap"
- Thread starter Marshall Honorof
- Start date
Well, he's not wrong. But he didn't go far enough. Most P2P MMOGs are crap too. This is why people will no longer pay for them. You want to run a MMOG? Fine. Make it free with MicroTransactions(TM). If it's a good game, people will play it, and buy stuff, and you will make money (DDO and LOTRO are far more profitable now that they've gone F2P than they ever were as P2P). If it's not good your game will die a horrible server death. Just like the paid MMOGs, only without milking the players for $60 + monthly fees and leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
true, about Vin, :/ but there's it OTHER problem's, but pretty sure those stem from a lack of caring on the company's partRalen-Sharr said:
I really agree. Most "F2P" games are really bad, and the few that are decent started as subscription games. Swithcing to a "F2P" model made those games worse.
Subscription games suffer in quality as well, mostly due to lack of innovation and lazy game design, but they are leaps and bounds better than their "F2P" counterparts.
Maybe subscription plans with more options would be a way forward. Being able to buy small chunks of effective game time could be handy, instead of commiting to a month.
Subscription games suffer in quality as well, mostly due to lack of innovation and lazy game design, but they are leaps and bounds better than their "F2P" counterparts.
Maybe subscription plans with more options would be a way forward. Being able to buy small chunks of effective game time could be handy, instead of commiting to a month.
Guild Wars is hardly an MMORPG though. I agree that it's a good game, but people mean Runes of Magic, LoTRO, Age of Conan etc when they say "FTP MMO". GW2? Meh.. I'll see how that turns out, I have my doubts.Funcakes said:
Out of the vast F2P MMO's I've played the most fun I've had was playing Runescape because their quests were actual quests. They were enjoyable, you actually read the story rather than rapid clicking the "next" button, the facial expressions make the reading amusing and they even had moments that gave me a good laugh.
So if many people hate on runescape but like other mmo's than I guess I'll have to agree that f2p developers are doing something wrong.
So if many people hate on runescape but like other mmo's than I guess I'll have to agree that f2p developers are doing something wrong.
I call Sturgeon's law in response.
Sure there's a lot of crap ones, but there are plenty of good ones and there seems to be a lot more that display more unique characteristics than simple WoW clones.
Sure there's a lot of crap ones, but there are plenty of good ones and there seems to be a lot more that display more unique characteristics than simple WoW clones.
Eh, that's not really true. Totally free content in LOTRO lasts until your low 30s, by which time you've probably earned enough Turbine Points to buy your next quest pack, especially if you buy it when it's on sale. Do the same process with a second character (or more, if so inclined) and your can certainly play your way through the game without paying. Add on a single month of being subscribed and you also get most character locked store items permanently unlocked for every character you play/create during that period and you're golden.Cowabungaa said:
Sure it can be a bit of a grind if you want everything for free but if you're actually expecting to be playing a full featured MMO for absolutely no cost and with absolutely no extra time/effort, it's not Turbine (or any other MMO makes) that's to blame.
I dislike both the subscription based model alongside with the free to play model. Free to play MMOs end up dividing players into two demographics: those who will pay and those who will not. Inevitably, the people who pay for the extra features of the game are placed into a higher tier above those that don't simply because they have the cash for the better loot. On the other hand, subscription based MMOs become problematic when they fail to keep the player engaged. Once one becomes bored of a given MMO that he or she is subbed to the subscription will drop since the incentive to pay and play is lost.
I think the best option would be moving towards the more practiced pricing method, that of paying a flat price. All of the content that is contained within the game will be available to the player to enjoy without the burden of additional fees and then expansions are released when the developers see fit. I think Guild Wars 2 could possibly be the next notable advancement in the MMO genre because of this.
I think the best option would be moving towards the more practiced pricing method, that of paying a flat price. All of the content that is contained within the game will be available to the player to enjoy without the burden of additional fees and then expansions are released when the developers see fit. I think Guild Wars 2 could possibly be the next notable advancement in the MMO genre because of this.
Yeah, see, here's the thing: most MMOs are crap, subscription-based or free. Requiring a subscription might keep the game's community somewhat more palatable, but (1) it's not guaranteed and (2) that doesn't improve the quality of the game, only the quality of people with whom you play it. Age of Conan wouldn't be more fun for me if I had a crew of friends in the game to play it with me; it'd still feel like an awkward slog of a game. Likewise, World of Warcraft, where I did have a guild I liked and several at least semi-dependable friends, eventually became tedious anyway - there's only so much grind I can stand on the same content no matter who I have beside me to share the repetition.
Most MMOs are crap. The payment model won't change the game.
Most MMOs are crap. The payment model won't change the game.
I'm glad this finally got said out in the open. I really am.
I for one never touch "freemium" games. For one, i always feel it's incredibly fucking misleading, as there has to be a "catch" somewhere in order for the developer to make money. I'd rather something be up-front about a product rather than play the ridiculous "dangle a carrot on a string" routine. I want to know this is a polished product and know what i'm getting, not be presented with "Well it's F2P so for all you know it could just be some garbage a few college guys threw together in the basement, but it has paid content too so at the same time it might not be, and if you don't involve yourself in the paid content you'll be missing out / be inferior to others online anyway."
It's why i just refuse to touch League of Legends. I know it's got absurdly popular, but i just don't trust anything that claims to be "Free to Play" and i never will. I can't stand that cloak-and-dagger bullshit without a clear business model. Not to mention as i touched on before than "free to play" games are often free because they're shitty, since it's a way for a small developer to perhaps get some recognition and have a bit of a trial run. I'm just not interested in ho-hum products; i want something polished and refined. Otherwise, it's just not worth my time, nor is it worth create YET ANOTHER online account for something. That alone is enough to put me off signing up for the platitudes of "F2P" titles out there.
I for one never touch "freemium" games. For one, i always feel it's incredibly fucking misleading, as there has to be a "catch" somewhere in order for the developer to make money. I'd rather something be up-front about a product rather than play the ridiculous "dangle a carrot on a string" routine. I want to know this is a polished product and know what i'm getting, not be presented with "Well it's F2P so for all you know it could just be some garbage a few college guys threw together in the basement, but it has paid content too so at the same time it might not be, and if you don't involve yourself in the paid content you'll be missing out / be inferior to others online anyway."
It's why i just refuse to touch League of Legends. I know it's got absurdly popular, but i just don't trust anything that claims to be "Free to Play" and i never will. I can't stand that cloak-and-dagger bullshit without a clear business model. Not to mention as i touched on before than "free to play" games are often free because they're shitty, since it's a way for a small developer to perhaps get some recognition and have a bit of a trial run. I'm just not interested in ho-hum products; i want something polished and refined. Otherwise, it's just not worth my time, nor is it worth create YET ANOTHER online account for something. That alone is enough to put me off signing up for the platitudes of "F2P" titles out there.
It's funny, League of Legends actually does pretty well with the free vs. paid content thing in terms of balancing out availability for people who don't want to pay anything. If there's a reason not to touch it, it's their community, which is by far the worst I've seen for any game - the other major issue of free games.Gralian said:
This is another thing i wanted to mention but forgot / wasn't informed enough to bring up.Shjade said:
The community of subscription-based MMOs is bad enough as it is (just look at the sheer elitism of WoW for example), i dread to think what dregs F2P titles bring in their droves, especially since there's no barrier to entry. Because in a way, that's what the subscription is; an idiot barrier. It keeps people who actually want to play the game and progress with others in and those who simply want to behave selfishly or in a self-entitled manner out.
I don't know anything about LoL, but i imagine there's an awful lot of aggression towards new players and a lot of bad sportsmanship such as "kill-stealing" and the like. I imagine you have to be pretty thick skinned in order to survive the possible torrents of abuse you might get from countless people named XxXXXXxTH3K1LL3RxxxXXOXOXOXO tho think they're hot stuff and don't have to worry about consequence because they're not paying a damn thing.
Then again, that might just be prejudices and assumptions talking.
It varies from game to game, with actively competitive games (MOBA's like League of Legends, shooters like Call of Duty, etc.) tending to have a higher volume of dicks and trolls mucking things up and less competitive, more cooperative games (RPG's like Lord of the Rings Online or World of Warcraft) having fewer trolls around (except in the PvP sections which fall under the previously mentioned competitive category). It's a question of how much antagonism is encouraged between players by the game mechanics.
LotRO went free to play a little over a year ago, but I haven't noticed the community get all that much worse for it, if it worsened at all. LoL's is a cesspool. It varies.
LotRO went free to play a little over a year ago, but I haven't noticed the community get all that much worse for it, if it worsened at all. LoL's is a cesspool. It varies.
Vindictus is f2p and I have yet to encounter greifers. Assholes, yes. Useless players who inconvenience everyone else, yes. Gold spammers, yes.
Eve online is pay to play (right?)
And consider the reputation eve has.
Suuuuurrreeeee paying keeps out the greifers. It just keeps in the rich who believe the company when they saw you bought the game, but you need to continually pay to actually use it.
Eve online is pay to play (right?)
And consider the reputation eve has.
Suuuuurrreeeee paying keeps out the greifers. It just keeps in the rich who believe the company when they saw you bought the game, but you need to continually pay to actually use it.
The problem isn't that with free-to-play a lot of the games are crap. The problem is that a lot of the games are crap. Free-to-play is a way to work around that.