Neal Stephenson's Sword-Fighting Kickstarter Has an Awesome Cameo

Little2Raph

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Danceofmasks said:
Well, this is a great idea and all, and as much as I am a fan of the Razer Hydra (YAY, motion controls that's good), I'm not optimistic.

The most important part of swordfighting is footwork.
Yep, exactly this. To be honest, I think if people want to have some idea of real swordplay they should take up fencing, or kendo (I know there are other martial art styles using swords, but those are the only two I've done myself), or a medieval combat club of some kind. One of those instances where actual reality is better than the virtual kind. . .
 

1337mokro

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Except those sports are really really expensive, not to mention it requires physical activity and well yeah stereotype.

I will still not be backing though, if the Hydra is used that means a nice 121 price tag will be put on top of this game just to play it. That's to much for me at this point and I wouldn't even be able to afford such an expensive after I got my paycheck.

So sorry, but if you find a motion controller for 60$ let me know.
 

Wertornion

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I think it's great that more and more teams are trying to create accurate ways to use swordfighting in games.
 

Alterego-X

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I don't even care about swordfighting games, but I watched both of their videos like 5 times. I love Stephenson's deadpan character.

"That's ok Sir Galahad, I'll go twentieth-century on your ass later."
These don't come cheap, because we need to bid against the people who made Farmville... and Angry Birds..."
"This is not a sword! It's not even a knife!"
"It's not gonna be a big open world where you can wander around killing badgers and harvesting magic weeds, because... those things are expensive."
 

newwiseman

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So long as the controller has an insane amount of Feedback, enough to make you drop the thing the first time two swords meet, I'll be happy.
 

remmus

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newwiseman said:
So long as the controller has an insane amount of Feedback, enough to make you drop the thing the first time two swords meet, I'll be happy.
consider the force related to loosing your sword like that can lead to injury, trying to simulate it ain´t smart, it´s still suppose to be a entertainment product.
 

Flatfrog

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Sober Thal said:
Never heard of Neal Stephenson, nor any of works listed on his wiki...
Quick summary:

Snow Crash - awesome first few chapters, tails off a bit
Diamond Age - awesome until the last few chapters, falls completely to bits
Zodiac (co-written under a pen-name) - great fun but pure fluff
Cryptonomicon - Mind-blowingly good, interspersed with boring as fuck
Baroque Trilogy - Great but... Jesus... Help Me... 500 more pages to go... must... keep... reading
Anathem - Takes a few hundred pages to really take off, then goes insane and turns into a completely different book. Finally managed to complete it on the third try! Worth the effort.

That's all I've read. He's certainly one of the most original authors you'll ever read, and you never know what the hell you're going to get!
 

IndianaJonny

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Sober Thal said:
Never heard of Neal Stephenson, nor any of works listed on his wiki...

Snow Crash sounds interesting. Paying devs to make a game engine, does not...
Yeah, I came to the same conclusion; it seems less of game and more of a game-engine project.

Alex Cowan said:
... This could just be a personal thing, but having been a competitive fencer for several years, I think I'd get very confused trying to judge distances/anticipate an opponent's movements looking from a viewpoint other than my own eyes.
Not to mention that your own character is obsuring some of the target area from your view.

While they were demonstrating disarms, parries etc. with the actors, all the game footage seemed to be of attacks to the head/torso. Maybe it is something they'll get to later, but there didn't appear to be any tactically-advantageous non-lethal hits going on in the game itself. That should have all the jammy Epeeists upset.

1337mokro said:
Except those sports are really really expensive, not to mention it requires physical activity and well yeah stereotype...
Most fencing clubs, here in the UK at least, have plenty of clothing and equipment for beginners since we recognise it is an equipment-heavy sport, so please don't let the 'expense' put you off. As for the physical activity, yeah, that just comes with the territory ;)
 

1337mokro

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IndianaJonny said:
1337mokro said:
Except those sports are really really expensive, not to mention it requires physical activity and well yeah stereotype...
Most fencing clubs, here in the UK at least, have plenty of clothing and equipment for beginners since we recognise it is an equipment-heavy sport, so please don't let the 'expense' put you off. As for the physical activity, yeah, that just comes with the territory ;)
I would still have to fly to the UK, find a house and a job there before I could even profit from those facilities. So yeah still a big price tag :D

Anyway, this game in my eyes is more of a step forward to gaming as a whole then an actual game. You have to look at it like this. After YEARS of wii mote, sony move and of course the kinect. How many decent sword games have we gotten?

How many game that accurately use motion in their gameplay are there? The answer is One. Dance games, even among the dance games though it can still be like night and day between games.

So for an accurate sword fight game to be released is more of a "This is how you do motion controls" rather then a sword fighting game in my opinion. If they can create an interesting and engaging world around it with the extra money or when they release the dev tools and some crazy modder creates a gigantic world for free then the game becomes an actual game on it's own.
 

Hero in a half shell

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1337mokro said:
Anyway, this game in my eyes is more of a step forward to gaming as a whole then an actual game. You have to look at it like this. After YEARS of wii mote, sony move and of course the kinect. How many decent sword games have we gotten?

How many game that accurately use motion in their gameplay are there? The answer is One. Dance games, even among the dance games though it can still be like night and day between games.

So for an accurate sword fight game to be released is more of a "This is how you do motion controls" rather then a sword fighting game in my opinion. If they can create an interesting and engaging world around it with the extra money or when they release the dev tools and some crazy modder creates a gigantic world for free then the game becomes an actual game on it's own.
I think this is a great way to sum up this project. If it works, this game will be one of those legendary revolutionary occurances in gaming history, and while in itelf it may not have the writing of KOTOR, the open world of Skyrim, or the graphics of Crysis, it will directly cause a huge boon in any sword-based game that comes after it and uses it's technology. Imagine if this was the sword combat in Skyrim, or Mount and blade, or the next Star Wars game!

It is a platform for innovation that would boost the quality of these types of games hugely, and could even lead to other similar innovations in other games, like having your body transferred into the game world through the Kinect for dodging and ducking.
It's another step towards a better, more immersive gaming experience that would add a new layer of awesome to our games, and that must be supported.

Also he kinda looks like Kane from Command and Conquer:

 

Alterego-X

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Well, there is a market for arena-based multiplayer FPS games, so I guess a comparably well-developed swordfighting simulation could also have enough content in that format, without a big RPG world.
 

Mouse One

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Little2Raph said:
Danceofmasks said:
Well, this is a great idea and all, and as much as I am a fan of the Razer Hydra (YAY, motion controls that's good), I'm not optimistic.

The most important part of swordfighting is footwork.
Yep, exactly this. To be honest, I think if people want to have some idea of real swordplay they should take up fencing, or kendo (I know there are other martial art styles using swords, but those are the only two I've done myself), or a medieval combat club of some kind. One of those instances where actual reality is better than the virtual kind. . .
Yeah, I'm lucky enough to have a local fencing studio with an instructor who teaches 15th century longsword (with occasional forays into pole ax and 13th century sword and buckler). I love the idea of this game, but in no way shape or form do we have the videogame tech to simulate fencing. So much of it is about footwork as well as sensing the strength and direction of the opponent's blade through yours.

Flight sims have the advantage of trying to simulate mechanical controls operated by a person sitting in a chair. Sword fighting? Not so much.
 

RandV80

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Ugh, don't you hate it when you feel like you're the only one that ever actually played 'that game'? Back in the late 90's, '98 I think, Interplay released a game called Die By the Sword, and an expansion Limb from Limb, that attempted to do exactly this. It was basically an early prototype so there were certainly some flaws, but they called the tech VSIM and which mapped your sword arm to the numbpad or mouse. Real physics were used, so to get maximum force on a swing you had to time your sword arm with player control to lunge forward and rotate/swing the hips. It didn't really capture pure sword combat as parrying/blocking wasn't implemented that well, so it was more about staying out of reach then lunging in with a well placed swing. A great deal of skill was required, which made it all the funner as you got better at it and could start hacking off limbs and decapitating all the usual fantasy critters such as orcs, kobalds, skeletons. Apart from a single expansion the game never went anywhere though.

As for this kickstart project, there's a couple of things I wanted to point out.

First, some people are way to focused on force feedback being a necessary requirement, which Yahtzee rants about whenever it comes up. Force feedback isn't going to mean a thing if there isn't a weight factor as well, because if you're simulating swinging an X kg/lbs claymore with an Y grams/ounce controller then there's something wrong there to start regardless of whether you get a clang/stop when you hit another sword. What you really need is to use the 3d models to train the user to match pace with their on screen avatar. This will reduce rapid flailing and gives you an opportunity to stop your motion when you're parried. Die by the Sword did this, rapidly moving the mouse around did absolutely nothing, you had to pace your movement with the character on screen to get the proper effect.

Then there's the comments that if you're interested in sword fighting you should just go join a club. While I fully agree, bringing this into a game isn't just about creating a sword fighting simulator, it's adding real sword fighting simulation/a degree of skill to existing games that let you explore large fantasy/medieval/historic worlds. When I venture out into Tamriel I want the option to be able to swing the sword strapped to my side with some actual skill, not just a matter of stat/level/gear numbers.
 

Sande45

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This is a very interesting project but I'm not sure it was smart to do it with motion controls. It's probably just going to end up even more distancing and immersion breaking when the method of control is that close to the real deal but with almost no inertia, physical feedback, or anything like that. They might find a way around all this but I doubt it.

What I would like to see is someone taking the system from Dark Souls but maybe put the blocking and striking controls to the right stick, EA Sports style. Also the hitboxes/collision detection should be vastly improved. Maybe next gen...

RandV80 said:
What you really need is to use the 3d models to train the user to match pace with their on screen avatar. This will reduce rapid flailing and gives you an opportunity to stop your motion when you're parried. Die by the Sword did this, rapidly moving the mouse around did absolutely nothing, you had to pace your movement with the character on screen to get the proper effect.
This brings the problem where your in-game self is swinging a claymore with full force in a fierce battle while you're lazily waggling a lightweight plastic toy. Might work with daggers though.
 

SaintWaldo

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This sounds pretty much like the game he wrote about in Snow Crash. Just because there isn't full-immersion (yet) doesn't mean it won't scale.