Neal Stephenson's Sword-Fighting Kickstarter Has an Awesome Cameo

[LostintheWick]

If people like Gabe are involved, why do they need Kickstarter? Can't they, idk, find non-crowd sourced investors? Why are all these larger companies asking us for money?
(I actually know this answer... cause it's free money without a true obligation to any sort of "investor")

So why can't kickstarter be left to people who legitimately can't find funding elsewhere?

 

[Nurb]

Man, I was all happy until I heard "guitar hero with swords". Now I dunno.

Anyone remember Die By The Sword?

 

[AKDread]

I do wonder how this is gonna turn out, but I hope they do well and make a kickass arena game

 

[BENZOOKA]

The game idea sounds somewhat interesting, but I've never even heard about the guy.

 

[ElPatron]

I liked the Sixense TrueMotion idea, but $139? Eeek.

medieval combat club of some kind.

You mean HEMA?

 

[SaintWaldo]

If people like Gabe are involved, why do they need Kickstarter? Can't they, idk, find non-crowd sourced investors? Why are all these larger companies asking us for money?
(I actually know this answer... cause it's free money without a true obligation to any sort of "investor")

So why can't kickstarter be left to people who legitimately can't find funding elsewhere?

I think he's only using Gabe for the in-joke factor.

As to why kickstarter at all, why doesn't cloud-funding rise to your definition of "legitimate"? Should all funding be in private smoke-filled rooms? What about letting more than just Wall Street insiders have a chance? I'm pretty sure these questions and their answers formed the kickstarter charter.

Also, Neal is not a company. He's an author who wants to fund a new start-up.

 

[bjj hero]

How long until there is a kickboxing sim for kinect? A much better prospect than swordfighting with a weightless, ethereal sword. I cant see there being a good sword fighting simulator in my time.

Although most gamers have zero cardio and cant throw a kick above their knee limiting your audience.

 

[gyroscopeboy]

Goddamn it Neal, MAKE A FUCKING SNOWCRASH GAME NOOOOOW! It would be BULLSHIT good.

 

[MetalMagpie]

Well, this is a great idea and all, and as much as I am a fan of the Razer Hydra (YAY, motion controls that's good), I'm not optimistic.

The most important part of swordfighting is footwork.

Lack of feedback of a sword hitting something is a bigger problem. And the motion controller has no inertia, no problem in stopping a fast swing with a 2-hander if we wish.

Which is exactly why this sort of thing is best done in real life. So take up fencing!

Seriously, it's the best sport in the world. There are three weapons to choose from (I dabble a bit in all three, but my main is foil), you don't need to be all that fit, and most clubs will lend you all the kit you need to get started.

 

[LostintheWick]

If people like Gabe are involved, why do they need Kickstarter? Can't they, idk, find non-crowd sourced investors? Why are all these larger companies asking us for money?
(I actually know this answer... cause it's free money without a true obligation to any sort of "investor")

So why can't kickstarter be left to people who legitimately can't find funding elsewhere?

I think he's only using Gabe for the in-joke factor.

As to why kickstarter at all, why doesn't cloud-funding rise to your definition of "legitimate"? Should all funding be in private smoke-filled rooms? What about letting more than just Wall Street insiders have a chance? I'm pretty sure these questions and their answers formed the kickstarter charter.

Also, Neal is not a company. He's an author who wants to fund a new start-up.

That is EXACTLY what I am saying.
People who have gotten to the point that they have connections (enough to get Gabe involved even if it's just for a vid) or are already established can find their way without Kickstarter. Tim Schafer is a good example of someone who doesn't need Kickstarter.

These folks take attention from those who really need it. It's people with money and friends in high places asking for more money that I'm raising an eyebrow at.

You also shuffled my words on the LEGITIMATE there. I'll rephrase:
Kickstarter should be left to the people who LITERALLY cannot find funding anywhere besides crowd-funding. It shouldn't be a way for those with money to get more money. It's already hard for those without resources to compete with those who do.

 

[Mouse One]

I liked the Sixense TrueMotion idea, but $139? Eeek.

medieval combat club of some kind.

You mean HEMA?

HEMA (or ARMA or HACA, whatever Clements calls it these days) is definitely one, but there's a number of schools that focus on different periods/techniques. For those interested, do a search for "Historical Western Martial Arts" in your area. Reenactment groups will sometimes do sparring, too-- the SCA comes to mind, although most of what they do is more sport than anything resembling actual swordplay (on the other hand, they hit each other pretty hard, so you can get that experience). And wearing a costume in public may or may not be to your taste.

With videogames, I'm just not into simulating reality-- I want the fantastic and over the top. In a sense, I don't want an accurate sword fighting simulation, I want a character who can do a backflip, land on a dragon's neck and get medieval (so to speak) on the lizard's *** It's the same reason I always prefered TIE Fighter to Microsoft Flight Sim.

 

[SaintWaldo]

If people like Gabe are involved, why do they need Kickstarter? Can't they, idk, find non-crowd sourced investors? Why are all these larger companies asking us for money?
(I actually know this answer... cause it's free money without a true obligation to any sort of "investor")

So why can't kickstarter be left to people who legitimately can't find funding elsewhere?

I think he's only using Gabe for the in-joke factor.

As to why kickstarter at all, why doesn't cloud-funding rise to your definition of "legitimate"? Should all funding be in private smoke-filled rooms? What about letting more than just Wall Street insiders have a chance? I'm pretty sure these questions and their answers formed the kickstarter charter.

Also, Neal is not a company. He's an author who wants to fund a new start-up.

That is EXACTLY what I am saying.
People who have gotten to the point that they have connections (enough to get Gabe involved even if it's just for a vid) or are already established can find their way without Kickstarter. Tim Schafer is a good example of someone who doesn't need Kickstarter.

These folks take attention from those who really need it. It's people with money and friends in high places asking for more money that I'm raising an eyebrow at.

You also shuffled my words on the LEGITIMATE there. I'll rephrase:
Kickstarter should be left to the people who LITERALLY cannot find funding anywhere besides crowd-funding. It shouldn't be a way for those with money to get more money. It's already hard for those without resources to compete with those who do.

It's not a zero-sum game.

Besides Kickstarter isn't about "the little guy". It's about letting your friends, family and the general public participate in your project with clear terms and rewards. That Stephenson want's to SHARE his project shouldn't be limited by already being famous. Maybe he doesn't want his project to benefit only venture capitalists. Maybe he already asked all his rich friends and everyone said, "You should start a kickstarter for that", because that's what it's for. Note that kickstarter only says "friends" not "friends who are already rich that some internet guy thinks should selflessly fund for the slim chance they can selfishly reap all the profits". You have a very unrealistic bar set (how would they even begin to vet 'literally cannot find funding anywhere besides'?), and I find it impossible to not wonder how badly your (or your friends) own kickstarter fared.

Having built-in publicity isn't Neal's fault, either. He's just using what he has as he sees fit, and to whine about that is usually called "sour grapes". He's doing a proof-of-concept, and he's letting anyone be a part of it. Grouse all you want, sharing the opportunity like this is just called "nice" in most circles.

 

[keiji_Maeda]

Iwill give Neal stephenson my money. I'll give him your first born under the right circumstance. His baroque cycle got me through the last stretch of the army, so i'll gladly give this masterly author some of my ill-begotten gains.

yaaah, i'm pretty fanboyie about this......

Captcha:Hit the hay
ok internet i catch your drift...

 

[upgray3dd]

Hold on, did you just say a realistic sword-fighting game by NEAL STEPHENSON? I've always been baffled by his disturbingly accurate portrayal of the future of the internet in the book Snow Crash, and now I see him creating the final piece of the puzzle: the sword-fighting game. Now I get it.

Neal Stephenson CONTROLS THE INTERNET. He's been shaping it to match his vision of what the internet should be all the way back in 1992. We must stop him before he scrambles our brains with computer viruses and turns us all into his mindless slaves.

Edit: Actually, what I just wrote was ridiculous. We shouldn't read into this at all. In fact, we should send him all of our money. We can trust him.

 

[mike1921]

If people like Gabe are involved, why do they need Kickstarter? Can't they, idk, find non-crowd sourced investors? Why are all these larger companies asking us for money?
(I actually know this answer... cause it's free money without a true obligation to any sort of "investor")

So why can't kickstarter be left to people who legitimately can't find funding elsewhere?

I think he's only using Gabe for the in-joke factor.

As to why kickstarter at all, why doesn't cloud-funding rise to your definition of "legitimate"? Should all funding be in private smoke-filled rooms? What about letting more than just Wall Street insiders have a chance? I'm pretty sure these questions and their answers formed the kickstarter charter.

Also, Neal is not a company. He's an author who wants to fund a new start-up.

That is EXACTLY what I am saying.
People who have gotten to the point that they have connections (enough to get Gabe involved even if it's just for a vid) or are already established can find their way without Kickstarter. Tim Schafer is a good example of someone who doesn't need Kickstarter.

These folks take attention from those who really need it. It's people with money and friends in high places asking for more money that I'm raising an eyebrow at.

You also shuffled my words on the LEGITIMATE there. I'll rephrase:
Kickstarter should be left to the people who LITERALLY cannot find funding anywhere besides crowd-funding. It shouldn't be a way for those with money to get more money. It's already hard for those without resources to compete with those who do.

Quite frankly, the people with connections will often not get funding or will need to sacrifice bits they like about a game for publisher demands, and I hate that system. I don't want publishers having power like that, I'd rather risk my own money than let a publisher do that if I could help it. Why does it matter if their kickstarter is the only way to get the game out vs. the only way to get the game out without a corporate stick up its ass?

 

[LostintheWick]

If people like Gabe are involved, why do they need Kickstarter? Can't they, idk, find non-crowd sourced investors? Why are all these larger companies asking us for money?
(I actually know this answer... cause it's free money without a true obligation to any sort of "investor")

So why can't kickstarter be left to people who legitimately can't find funding elsewhere?

I think he's only using Gabe for the in-joke factor.

As to why kickstarter at all, why doesn't cloud-funding rise to your definition of "legitimate"? Should all funding be in private smoke-filled rooms? What about letting more than just Wall Street insiders have a chance? I'm pretty sure these questions and their answers formed the kickstarter charter.

Also, Neal is not a company. He's an author who wants to fund a new start-up.

That is EXACTLY what I am saying.
People who have gotten to the point that they have connections (enough to get Gabe involved even if it's just for a vid) or are already established can find their way without Kickstarter. Tim Schafer is a good example of someone who doesn't need Kickstarter.

These folks take attention from those who really need it. It's people with money and friends in high places asking for more money that I'm raising an eyebrow at.

You also shuffled my words on the LEGITIMATE there. I'll rephrase:
Kickstarter should be left to the people who LITERALLY cannot find funding anywhere besides crowd-funding. It shouldn't be a way for those with money to get more money. It's already hard for those without resources to compete with those who do.

It's not a zero-sum game.

Besides Kickstarter isn't about "the little guy". It's about letting your friends, family and the general public participate in your project with clear terms and rewards. That Stephenson want's to SHARE his project shouldn't be limited by already being famous. Maybe he doesn't want his project to benefit only venture capitalists. Maybe he already asked all his rich friends and everyone said, "You should start a kickstarter for that", because that's what it's for. Note that kickstarter only says "friends" not "friends who are already rich that some internet guy thinks should selflessly fund for the slim chance they can selfishly reap all the profits". You have a very unrealistic bar set (how would they even begin to vet 'literally cannot find funding anywhere besides'?), and I find it impossible to not wonder how badly your (or your friends) own kickstarter fared.

Having built-in publicity isn't Neal's fault, either. He's just using what he has as he sees fit, and to whine about that is usually called "sour grapes". He's doing a proof-of-concept, and he's letting anyone be a part of it. Grouse all you want, sharing the opportunity like this is just called "nice" in most circles.

Solid reply! I feel myself pulled more towards your side.

To be honest, my friends Kickstarter was a success! But I wont say what it is b/c I'm not making any friens here

I'm not suggesting there be an actual system put in place to separated the already successful. There is definitely a difference in perception between you and me. Your view sounds a whole lot more pleasant than mine. But I work with and see the greed of people running game industry. I get so see behind the PR where I am at. And I see the majority of it's profits funneled into the hands of a few people while the rest slave away. The amount of energy put into a project and the amount returned is not proportionate among the talent. We need a union.

So when I see established professionals with names people know starting Kickstarters, I do think "F**k off! I KNOW you already have the money!" But it seems like a "Why not?" decision for em cause others are willing to foot all of or part of the bill.

It's bitter resentment that I feel here. I just hope that I got it all wrong and that the "rich" aren't just reaping the rewards of generosity just b/c they can. And asking for money isn't sharing. In fact, it's the opposite. I don't care if they are offering little treats in return. How bout a proportionate share of the profits (or whatever best applies) instead?

 

[SaintWaldo]

-snip-

Solid reply! I feel myself pulled more towards your side.

To be honest, my friends Kickstarter was a success! But I wont say what it is b/c I'm not making any friens here

I'm not suggesting there be an actual system put in place to separated the already successful. There is definitely a difference in perception between you and me. Your view sounds a whole lot more pleasant than mine. But I work with and see the greed of people running game industry. I get so see behind the PR where I am at. And I see the majority of it's profits funneled into the hands of a few people while the rest slave away. The amount of energy put into a project and the amount returned is not proportionate among the talent. We need a union.

So when I see established professionals with names people know starting Kickstarters, I do think "F**k off! I KNOW you already have the money!" But it seems like a "Why not?" decision for em cause others are willing to foot all of or part of the bill.

It's bitter resentment that I feel here. I just hope that I got it all wrong and that the "rich" aren't just reaping the rewards of generosity just b/c they can. And asking for money isn't sharing. In fact, it's the opposite. I don't care if they are offering little treats in return. How bout a proportionate share of the profits (or whatever best applies) instead?

Glad I was wrong about your friends KS!

I'm sure your POV has some validity in that I'm sure that there are projects on KS that probably should be seeking more traditional capital sources. It is ever the case that established dinosaurs get clumsy when using mammalian tech innovations. And your resentment is understandable, but it is also much better utilized if you label it as such. Since you've done this, I can try to separate your general resentment with KS "abuse" from this particular instance, which is really the only thing I'm defending. Your issue seems valid to me, but doesn't seem to apply here.

I'll disclose that I'm a big fan of Neal's writing and see this KS effort as including me in a group that I would have sought out wherever it occurred, had I been able to even hear about it. And in the traditional VC atmosphere, I wouldn't have. He's got a head start in the PR area, for sure, but he still needs a compelling project to get funding, and with the make-or-break form of funding, there's much less risk on my end than in traditional VC. These things add up to "this seems a good deal for a little guy like me". Also, because I went to KS to look at Neal's project, I also looked at other KS projects, which would not have happened without him.

So, there might be a hidden upside for the little guys when bigger names get involved, but I'm sure we will both agree that this really only applies if the project keeps to the "spirit" of the indie/DIY/proof-of-concept culture that seems to be what KS aims to foster. No, EA should not have its tertiary studios seeking additional funding on KS in return for a glorified pre-order package. But just because a person is a former or current EA employee with a full stock vest and swimming pools of personal cash, I don't think that should automatically disqualify their own labors of love from trying to get cash, interest and even help on KS. Each case is probably very different from most others.

Great convo. I'm glad you read my words instead of seeing a reply as only a "challenge". Have a great day!

 

[LostintheWick]

-snip-

Glad I was wrong about your friends KS!

I'm sure your POV has some validity in that I'm sure that there are projects on KS that probably should be seeking more traditional capital sources. It is ever the case that established dinosaurs get clumsy when using mammalian tech innovations. And your resentment is understandable, but it is also much better utilized if you label it as such. Since you've done this, I can try to separate your general resentment with KS "abuse" from this particular instance, which is really the only thing I'm defending. Your issue seems valid to me, but doesn't seem to apply here.

I'll disclose that I'm a big fan of Neal's writing and see this KS effort as including me in a group that I would have sought out wherever it occurred, had I been able to even hear about it. And in the traditional VC atmosphere, I wouldn't have. He's got a head start in the PR area, for sure, but he still needs a compelling project to get funding, and with the make-or-break form of funding, there's much less risk on my end than in traditional VC. These things add up to "this seems a good deal for a little guy like me". Also, because I went to KS to look at Neal's project, I also looked at other KS projects, which would not have happened without him.

So, there might be a hidden upside for the little guys when bigger names get involved, but I'm sure we will both agree that this really only applies if the project keeps to the "spirit" of the indie/DIY/proof-of-concept culture that seems to be what KS aims to foster. No, EA should not have its tertiary studios seeking additional funding on KS in return for a glorified pre-order package. But just because a person is a former or current EA employee with a full stock vest and swimming pools of personal cash, I don't think that should automatically disqualify their own labors of love from trying to get cash, interest and even help on KS. Each case is probably very different from most others.

Great convo. I'm glad you read my words instead of seeing a reply as only a "challenge". Have a great day!

I'm glad you are able to separate my general resentment b/c sometimes I can't lol
So yes! Good convo. I think I will adopt more of your perspective on this given project. I think you might be right. Maybe I should check out some of Neil's writing?

But now I am off to hunt some more dinosaurs! It's almost as fun as killing dragons! Almost.