New Homefront Dev Diary Talks "Massacre Fatigue"

Caligulove

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Sep 25, 2008
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I think I'll pass and just watch Red Dawn for 15 hours, instead. Same experience, 'cliche and heavy-handed'

Young kids form an underground resistance/terrorist cell to take on foreign invaders, blah blah blah, american flags and crying eagles, John Milius gets a check for trimming up his own work and repackaging it as something new and innovative, since it's for a video game, see.
 

Korten12

Now I want ma...!
Aug 26, 2009
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RUINER ACTUAL said:
hazabaza1 said:
Wow, you wanted the brands because it'd help the game?
Sure, and those nice lil' paychecks don't influence you at all.

But seriously, this looks like just another generic boring shooter. Ah well.
I kinda thought that too about the product placement, but if the money helps make the game better, and I can call out targets that are in the McDonalds, not the Burger Town, good. It's easier. Most games, product placement takes away from the experience, but here I think it will help with the immersion because of the whole "you could've lived here" thing. I looks like they are doing it right for once.
Yeah exactly, the product placement will help the game, unlike others where it makes no sense.
 

Josh123914

They'll fix it by "Monday"
Nov 17, 2009
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ravenshrike said:
Josh12345 said:
what I find interesting is that most of the resistance are regular people too and will have little to no training with firearms and will probably be unable to kill ENEMY 34 while you destroy VEHICLE 5 and kill ENEMIES 17, 22 31
And this proves you have little to no knowledge of american culture outside a big city or California. There are over 300 million weapons now owned by civilians in the united states. Which means that even with the population reinforcements during their territory conquering(which China just let happen), for every gun they have, the US would have 10. And please note that even if they did conquer those countries, given the tech levels in the game, there's no way enough time had passed that most of those countries wouldn't need massive occupation forces as well. It still doesn't make coherent sense from a military standpoint. The only country that would have a snowflakes chance in hell of even assaulting mainland America as a single political entity would be China.

Not to mention the ease with which relatively accurate full auto weapons can be constructed using even remotely modern machine tools.
listen, I'm only stating what the Developers said in a commentary video and what I was trying to get at was not every American is trained in the military for guns, and if they are, well then fine you've proved me wrong. Just remember that this is a GAME. It doesn't have to be realistic on a constant basis(Mass Effect & assassin's creed are good examples))
 

dragonburner

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Feb 21, 2009
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This game makes me scared. Like singularity I want this to be great, but I feel like it wont be very good. Also, Yahtzee could just copy and paste his Call of Duty: Black Ops review.
 

SenseOfTumour

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Jul 11, 2008
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I just sense that a mini game between levels where you knock on doors and break the news to grieving widows of the enemies you murdered in the previous level... it's not going to be 'fun'.

Still, kudos for trying a new angle, we know the FPS genre sure needs it and it should balance out Bulletstorm pushing the boundaries in the opposite direction :)
 

Mr.Gompers

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Dec 27, 2009
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I honestly don't like this "violence with consequences" thing. It sounds like it will end up being forced upon us, rather than just something to take or leave. I don't like this because if an foreign power is invading and treating my country the way it's shown in the clip, I'll definitely want to kill as many of the enemy as I can.
 
Aug 26, 2008
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If they can pull this off it'll be fantastic. However I think if you want to add real weight to murdering people then you have to make the player character vulnerable too, not a godlike ass stomping, super soldier. Risk is what makes stuff tense. DOO EEET.
 

BourneGamer

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ravenshrike said:
Koreans? Really? the norks barely would have enough manpower to take over Hawaii, let alone any major portion of America. Clearly they plan on trying to sell this in China at some point.
Look at the first dev. diary. One of the guys mentions that N. Korea has the fourth largest standing army in the world. I'll admit I didn't look it up to see if that's true or just for their story, but that sounds like a sufficient force to start takeing over countries with their focus on their economy.
 

Fuselage

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Somethings going to be on Fox News tonight......
"TOO CLOSE TO HOME? AT FOX NEWS, WE SAY YES"
 

octafish

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Apr 23, 2010
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AVENGE ME BOYS! AVENGE ME! Homefront is one of the more interesting titles coming up this year.
 

Callate

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Hmm. An admirable goal, certainly; if video games are to be the art form so many of us claim they are, it ought to be possible to make a game that appeals to us in the same way as a tragic drama does, drawing on our universal humanity and our desire for emotional catharsis.

But I sense some dangerous stumbling blocks ahead. The nature of the medium and those who consume it is antagonistic to being railroaded into doing things just for the sake of the game-maker's vision. If you force a player to do something and then demand that they feel bad for doing it, it's not unreasonable that the player will either stop playing or approach each violent encounter with a sort of black humor that is the exact opposite of what it sounds like they're trying to achieve.
 

emeraldrafael

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Jul 17, 2010
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I posted this in a thread a member had made themselves, but I'll post it again here just for sake of it.

How do you combat "massacre fatigue?" To me, that means more guilt then empathy in the enemy. The only way I can see it in a video game is if when you kill a person a photo of their wives/children comes up and makes you see this guy had a family. I mean, excluding any major antagonists who get story, its hard to make every enemy soldier and individual.

I like the idea of it though, like I like the idea of this game the more and more I see it. I'm just honestly curious how you reduce/eliminate combat fatigue.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Sounds like they have it backwards more or less.

I'll be honest, I have never killed anyone, though I have known a lot of people that have. I have however been involved in a number of violent situations which I will not go into (less to do with my former employment than you might think, as I did that job by defusing and controlling situations so violence wouldn't happen despite being prepared to handle it) as it's unimportant.

The bottom line with violence, even killing, is that it gets easier the more that you do it, not vice versa. If they wanted to convey the realities of war and violence, the trick would be a matter of making the first few acts unusually graphic and meaningful in their encounters, but as the game progresses, ramp things up gradually to the point of causing "massacre fatigue" and then at some point as part of the story make an issue out of how many people have been being killed, and how casual it all was compared to the beginnings of the game.

To be entirely honest, the more you fight and kill, the less you generally begin to care about fighting and killing. This is why a lot of soldiers have such a hard time reassimilating to society after being in a war. Using violence to solve problems becomes second nature. This is also incidently why propaganda is so important during a war, both to help soldiers take out those first few enemies when they are still thinking in human terms, and then to keep reaffirming that they are doing the right thing as the war continues. Of course given that few real people kill as many people as a video game character does, it's a bit differant and spread out over a longer period of time (with a lot of downtime in between, waiting for things to happen).

I'll also say that even as art, I see video games as being a form of escapism. Truthfully, I'm not sure if I quite care for the attitude of trying to show the overall impact of war and violence. Honestly, I don't think most people need to be seeing these kinds of things because with the "peace at any price" moment acting in full force, and very little propaganda, during our current war, people are hammered with the realities every day. I don't think anyone needs to be shown the realities of the Gaza Strip, Iraq, Afghanistan, or other things because we've been bombarded by it for quite a while now.

Honestly, I think what we need actually are games focusing on the glory of war. That might sound odd, but to be honest it seems that most games are focused on being gritty nowadays, and pretty much all of the shooter games and such out there are pretty depressing when you get down to it. It seems games come in that flavor, or over-the-top satire and/or action movie fare. A serious game, about the glory and positive fortunes of war, well told would be a good counterpoint. Everyone seems to think that such games are the standard, but they haven't been, not for a long time.

This is just my opinion however, as far as "Homefront" goes, the idea interested me as I'm a fan of old movies like "Red Dawn" and "Invasion USA" even if people mock them nowadays. The latter in paticular was an entertaining piece of high camp, where Chuck Norris actually seemed to be having a good time making the movie. That said, I'm not a huge shooter fan, and unless the game has some heavy sandbox elements (I haven't been following it too closely) I probably will wind up passing on it.
 

Brnin8

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Jul 17, 2009
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Orcus_35 said:
At least it's not a bland FPS game... or is it just Bullshait what they're saying ?

What do you call someone who sells you something that doesn't do what they promise it will do?
Peter Molyneux?

Looks like it could be good, I hope it is thats for sure.
I'll wait for the reviews instead of just pre-ordering it though.
 

The Real Sandman

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Oct 12, 2009
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:/
Hmmm...

The idea of bringing emotion into violent shoot-outs sounds interesting. But if the bad guys are just gonna be faceless robot/Nazi hybrids that only speak Korean or scruffy, dirty, mean looking mercenary dudes who babble on to each other about how overrated freedom and happy families are all while reading an issue of "Baby Eaters Monthly" would just defeat the purpose of feeling "bad" about killing people.

Its pretty much all in the animations, particularly the facial animations. When ever you blew off a dude's limb(s) in World at War, he would normally not die but lie on the ground twitching and shrieking in agonizing pain. Kane and Lynch: Dead Men went an extra mile and had surviving victims begging for mercy. Thanks to that added touch I rarely had the stomach to "finish the job".

So far, Homefront looks intriguing. But then again, so did Turning Point, and that game pretty much had the same premise only there were Nazis. Hopefully Kaos won't make the same mistake CodeMasters did and actually finish making the game BEFORE releasing it!