New Overwatch Hero Is a Response to Body-Type Diversity Criticism

[Zontar]

What I want to know is why is this news? It's just a new character for Overwatch, is the game big in the US or something? Because on this side of the boarder no one I know plays or is talking about the game.

I think the reaction has been typical though: Blizzard isn't filled with morons, they should have known that the people they where trying to please with this character would be split on the issue (has there ever been an attempt to appease them that hasn't ended in failure?) but it's not like the people complaining had any intent to play the game anyway, so I guess it's a moot point.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Do NOT strawman me.

I'll admit, that part was aimed more at those who are literally claiming Blizzard has been forced. I apologize for sweeping you up with them.

I'm not complaining about diversity/innovation/convention in games. I want it just as much as anyone else. But it should exist to suit the work it's in, not the other way around. Diversity/Innovation/Convention is the side effect of a series of choices made, NOT the main goal itself.

Is it your position, then, that Zarya's design is a poor choice for this game? If so, why is it a poor design choice? If not, what's the problem?

What Bob eats has no affect on Alice...

You don't know that. Maybe there's only two sandwiches, and Alice wants the roast beef. Maybe Alice is selling the sandwiches, and there's a better profit margin on the chicken. Maybe Alice knows Bob is allergic to something on the roast beef sandwich, and doesn't want him to get sick. There's lots of ways she could reasonably have an opinion on this.

Meanwhile Chris is being melodramatic over a small issue.

You know there's someone in this thread who is calling people who ask for diversity terrorists, right?

Oh I definitely believe that a female Russian bodybuilder has a place next to a cowboy and a hyper-intelligent, genetically modified gorilla. I even believe that she was part of the original cast the whole time. Simply put, I like the character and where she is. The problem is that Blizzard is using her as PR to appeal to a crowd that cannot be pleased and giving the impression of coercion. They make it part of someone's agenda outside of the game, and that upsets many people. And most importantly, the character now feels fake- like a statement instead of a character. Everything she does now represents something that isn't her. If Blizzard just released her without waving their dick about how she is "a direct response" to something, then no one would even notice she was different to begin with, which is how diversity should be.

and the analogy... Maybe Alice is just a controlling ***** and Bob is willing to put up with it for sex. Maybe she's verbally abusive. Maybe she's physically abusive! For all I know, Chris has put up with it for a long time and wants to see his buddy Bob in a safe environment away from her, and the snapping point was a small event that represents their relationship as a whole. Maybe she is with ISIL and making an indirect threat using metaphors. There's lots of ways Alice could be out of line.

Also, never bring up an extremist as a representative of the whole. I could easily do the same, but it detracts from the actual conversation.

 

[iller3]

I haven't, but I'm hearing a lot that its not quite like Team Fortress 2 as everybody thinks it is. I found this footage of Zarya gameplay earlier, should give some insight.

Good find, that's definitely more helpful. Shows She's a solid "push" heavy assault by the looks of it. Really sturdy but able to roam, get some kills while spamming shields, and most importantly just keep the suppressive fire On Target.

Aesthetics aside, I don't think this character's role was just thrown together. Or if it was, it's because they quickly ripped it off from other TeamPvP games where this kinda stuff helps the healer mobile-bunker which wins matches.

 

[ngl42398]

Zarya this, Zarya that, I don't see the big deal about a Rule 63 Heavy. I wanna know why no one else is talking about how fucking awesome McCree looks.

His entire design screams "Badass Western". Maybe it's because I've always had a soft spot for the Wild West in fiction, but his appearance is genius. Between the cigar, poncho, coolass six-shooter, and hat, it's easily my favorite so far. I especially like his ultimate, that quickdraw looks FUCKING FUN AS HELL. Also, it's nice how they implemented a flashbang to not be like Counter-Strike, in that it's not actually a flashbang. Shit hurts my eyes.

 

[The Lunatic]

On the topic of hair.


It'd be kinda life if we had a character that ran around wearing a fedora.

People are going to make characterisations based on a character's appearance.

Though, if we're going for such stereotypes, maybe the next character should be an overweight neck-beard with a trench-coat, fedora and an oversized katana?


It'd certainly balance things out.

 

[SweetShark]

Wait, wasn't the Barbarian Girl from Diablo 3 had Body-Type Diversion like Zayra?
WHy this is so important now?
Btw, muscular overweight women for the win!!!
Also Pyro from TF2 is a girl.

 

[SweetShark]

Zarya this, Zarya that, I don't see the big deal about a Rule 63 Heavy. I wanna know why no one else is talking about how fucking awesome McCree looks.

His entire design screams "Badass Western". Maybe it's because I've always had a soft spot for the Wild West in fiction, but his appearance is genius. Between the cigar, poncho, coolass six-shooter, and hat, it's easily my favorite so far. I especially like his ultimate, that quickdraw looks FUCKING FUN AS HELL. Also, it's nice how they implemented a flashbang to not be like Counter-Strike, in that it's not actually a flashbang. Shit hurts my eyes.

Because there is a Cowboy NINJA in Mortal Kombat and he is way cooler than him:

Spoiler: BEHOLD!!!

We will see more of him in the game obviously.

EDIT: If you like Cowboys so much, I suggest you to play "Fistful of Frags". Great FPS game.

 

[Grahav]

Relevant to this topic:

Michael Hartman, the CEO of Frogdice, tries to have a reasonable conversation about female costume designs with a Polygon journo, but is unable to get through to him.

 

[theNater]

The problem is that Blizzard is using her as PR to appeal to a crowd that cannot be pleased and giving the impression of coercion.

You know that a lot of the people who were asking for more body type variety are happy with Zarya, right? That the people complaining about her are largely different people?

If Blizzard just released her without waving their dick about how she is "a direct response" to something, then no one would even notice she was different to begin with, which is how diversity should be.

Yeah, that's not how real people work. There was always going to be someone claiming it was a response to this criticism, and there were always going to be people complaining about how "ugly" and "mannish" she looks.

and the analogy... Maybe Alice is...

Well, if you weren't sure why she was doing it, you could have asked. I mean, you had access to the guy who came up with the analogy. But instead, you leapt immediately to the assumption that "Alice is being controlling".

Also, never bring up an extremist as a representative of the whole. I could easily do the same, but it detracts from the actual conversation.

Again, I was trying to bring up the extremists as representatives of the extremists. I accidentally overshot my mark, and apologized.

 

[Kameburger]

Holy crap... I've never been so unaffected and desensitized to something in my life. I think this was a good solution though. And for everyone ragging on the media for giving this attention you know what good on them for this one. It's much nicer to see one article about a thing a company did right than 6 or 7 articles and 3 videos about something stupid a random guy at Ubisoft blurted out in a sneeze. I'm still looking forward to overwatch. That game looks fun. What I'm not looking forward to is really just anything that remotely resembles 2014's glorious outrage culture flaring up like the hemroid from hell.

 

[Vigormortis]

I'm hearing a lot that its not quite like Team Fortress 2 as everybody thinks it is.

Um....that statement does not jive with the linked video. That video makes the game look precisely like a Team Fortress 2 clone set in the future.

 

[keniakittykat]

They were so damn close to making a real stand-out character but fell on the last hurdle and made her a Russian strongwoman stereotype with bright pink hair. It's like they were trying to justify the design to themselves.

You were so close, Blizzard!

 

[Trishbot]

They were so damn close to making a real stand-out character but fell on the last hurdle and made her a Russian strongwoman stereotype with bright pink hair. It's like they were trying to justify the design to themselves.

You were so close, Blizzard!

I'll give you a pony if you can name me five Russian strongwomen in video games that I can't make with a character creator. I'll even be impressed if you can name me two.

 

[happyninja42]

They were so damn close to making a real stand-out character but fell on the last hurdle and made her a Russian strongwoman stereotype with bright pink hair. It's like they were trying to justify the design to themselves.

You were so close, Blizzard!

I'll give you a pony if you can name me five Russian strongwomen in video games that I can't make with a character creator. I'll even be impressed if you can name me two.

Well, since I'm pretty confident you can make any character with a..you know..character creator, I don't know how it is possible to actually meet your challenge. xD

The only one I can think of offhand, is that character from Alpha Protocol, the strong female Russian mercenary. She was admittedly way more feminine in design than this Overwatch character, but she was also pretty manly and butch in other ways. Aside from her....yeah I got nothin'.

 

[Trishbot]

The only one I can think of offhand, is that character from Alpha Protocol, the strong female Russian mercenary. She was admittedly way more feminine in design than this Overwatch character, but she was also pretty manly and butch in other ways. Aside from her....yeah I got nothin'.

I was thinking more along the lines of, say, Saints Row has a "Russian accent" for one of the female Boss characters, and you can customize her body to be a bulging, strong, bodybuilder type. But outside of that, I can't think of a single one that's an established character.

 

[happyninja42]

The only one I can think of offhand, is that character from Alpha Protocol, the strong female Russian mercenary. She was admittedly way more feminine in design than this Overwatch character, but she was also pretty manly and butch in other ways. Aside from her....yeah I got nothin'.

I was thinking more along the lines of, say, Saints Row has a "Russian accent" for one of the female Boss characters, and you can customize her body to be a bulging, strong, bodybuilder type. But outside of that, I can't think of a single one that's an established character.

Ah, established as opposed to designed by the player. *nods* Ok, I grok you fully now. Yeah, I'm still drawing a blank, other than the one from Alpha Protocol that I mentioned. She wasn't "bulging" except in the cleavage department. But she was definitely a muscular Russian woman. She was at that (in my opinion) perfect synergy of female curves and muscular strength, without going into the "yes I take steroids" level of mass.


**Edit** Would you count Nurse Nina from Borderlands Pre-Sequel? She wasn't a bodybuilder level of big, but she was a massive Russian woman. I mean, maybe she did lift weights, but the results were insulated under a lot of fat.

 

[Scarim Coral]

I just wanted to post this link-

http://thespectacularspider-girl.tumblr.com/post/113010314274/female-portrayals-in-video-games

I find it quite insightful especially when I was one of those people who did view the Overwatch girls had the same body type.

 

[theNater]

I just wanted to post this link-

http://thespectacularspider-girl.tumblr.com/post/113010314274/female-portrayals-in-video-games

I find it quite insightful especially when I was one of those people who did view the Overwatch girls had the same body type.

I responded to that article a few pages back; I'm repasting my response here for ease of access.

My main problem with that article is the assumption that what she finds sexy is what everybody finds sexy. That women can't be sexy while fully dressed. That anyone who doesn't want the women she likes is anti-sex. Well, I'll probably be mocked for saying this, but I think Zarya is hot. I like a woman with some heft to her. Zarya is such a breath of fresh air compared to the half-clothed twigs that we see over and over and over. I'd much rather date her than Widowmaker. But when I cheer for the addition of someone I think is sexy, it must be because I hate sex.

My secondary problem is that she lists four male body types when there are five: thin, dwarf, heroic, large, gorilla.

 

[Trishbot]

I just wanted to post this link-

http://thespectacularspider-girl.tumblr.com/post/113010314274/female-portrayals-in-video-games

I find it quite insightful especially when I was one of those people who did view the Overwatch girls had the same body type.

I still think they do IN COMPARISON TO THE MEN. It's not just "sexy", compared to the rich diversity of the male Overwatch characters, which are pushed to incredibly diverse extremes, the women absolutely are similar in size apart from Zarya's inclusion. Identical? No, but, yeah, when you see most of the cast, the women are far more alike than different.

I think the article you linked to is interesting, but partially misguided. At least 4 (maybe 5, without the armor) of the girls are cut from the same cloth, with similar, but not quite identical, builds. It's a problem MANY people have doing women in fiction, and it's the reason the bodies of 99% of superheroines in comics are identical and, without having a costume or hair color to tell them apart, you couldn't tell a civilian like Mary Jane from a psychic superhero warrior like Jean Grey. All the women had to be sexy, lithe, and curvy.

For Overwatch, the problem was the developers were aiming for diversity and realized they weren't hitting it well enough with the female characters (as opposed to how vastly different the men are). In the greater gaming landscape, it's not quite so much an issue, but it was for Overwatch.

It's still an issue as a whole, however. We absolutely DO need better, more sensible female characters in games. The article you linked to comes from the right place, but while she says we have characters like Talim and Hilde in Soul Calibur, or the rogue in Dragon's Crown, they're vastly outnumbered by the "sexy" women, not just in representation but also marketing. You barely saw the rogue compared to the sorceress and amazon, so what good does it do people to create a sensible alternative if most people don't even know she exists? For every sensibly dressed, averagely-sized woman, there's at least 30 or more that fit the "pinup model" size, typically wearing impractical clothing (good ol' chainmail bikinis are the rule for most of fantasy fiction, sadly). I do celebrate the ones that get it right, though. I DO talk about Hilde, Chun-Li, Samus Aran (in armor), Faith Conners, Alyx Vance, Jade from Beyond Good & Evil, Chell, Zoey, etc., and I do thank people like Netherrealm Studios for "trying to make our women more realistic" or Bioware for putting female Shepard on the game cover and attempting to be more open minded.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

She is still sexy though, in a body-builder kind-of way. And she has a pretty face. How about making fat, not pretty female character?

like hatchetface from crybaby. that's fuckin diverse. ugh.