New Overwatch Hero Is a Response to Body-Type Diversity Criticism

[Denamic]

Ok guys, seriously. How the heck this Thread reach to talk about Tumblr and SJW?
Of course I didn't sit to read all this posts to understand more, but again, why?

Because it was because of the SJW crusade that this character was designed like this, and tumblr is an SJW hive.

Of course, you can't ever please SJWs, so they'll keep whining even when they get exactly what they ask for.

 

[Trishbot]

I'm not seeing some brave act of diversity here. I'm seeing TF2's Heavy, gender-flipped.

Because having ONE new strong Russia character in gaming 8 years after Team Fortress 2 means the gaming landscape is just saturated with Russian stereotypes, right? She's strong and Russian, but she's nowhere near a "gender-flipped" heavy anymore than Master Chief is a gender-flipped Samus Aran.

THIS is a gender-flipped Heavy.

Yes I found your work on Deviant already. Is there something more current though? In any case I don't believe in just tearing an artist down, esp not in public, b/c I know nomatter how much they may say otherwise, underneath they still have motivations and egos that can be easily bruised by the wrong words. So I won't say what I actually think either way about the execution of said anatomy (& again, it's not current).... But I would like to note that it fails to demonstrate as wide a variety in form compared to Blizzard's. Atleast proportionally. That said, keep up the CG Modeling work if that's still something you're doing, you really do show more compositional potential there. I'll probably reciprocate and share a WIP later of Zarya just to demonstrate equal proof of experience.

If you're old enough, you can look up MY art on deviartart as well. I've come a long way and I've drawn and modeled a lot of characters.

However, you don't have to be an artist to criticize art, just like you don't have to make movies to criticize a movie. Roger Ebert was a great movie critic, but he was certainly no filmmaker (he tried his hand at it once).

Nothing that was stated in my criticism was harsh or shaming. Besides, you severely underestimate the skin of artists. People have mocked my work... including my art instructors. But they criticize and mock the ART, not the ARTIST. Big difference. You are taught as an artist NOT to take criticism of your art personally; if you can't do that, you have no business being a professional artist. I can guarantee the artists at Blizzard, being as talented and skilled as they are, already know this lesson. A job like theirs requires thick skin, not easily bruised egos. Those type of artists don't last long.

So, none of what was said came from a spiteful or mean-spirited place. As an artist, constructive feedback and criticism is the single most important tool we have to improve our art and skill. Everything starts out as just a concept, rough sketches, tweaked and modified. NO character emerges from the brain fully formed. Characters can go through vast, massive iterative changes before the director is happy with what he sees. I mean, just look at how diverse the concept art was for Midna in Twilight Princess.

A good artist recognizes the value of feedback and can differentiate criticism of their art with criticism of their character.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Just throwing it out there, I've seen a lot of "SJWs" saying that they really like Zarya, and praising Overwatch in general. I know some people like to sterotype "SJWs" (Fucking LOATHE that term) as to people who only ever ***** about games that they never will play, but as someone who has been accused as being an "SJW" I am impressed by Zarya and am looking forward to Overwatch.

 

[Erttheking]

Ok guys, seriously. How the heck this Thread reach to talk about Tumblr and SJW?
Of course I didn't sit to read all this posts to understand more, but again, why?

Because it was because of the SJW crusade that this character was designed like this, and tumblr is an SJW hive.

Of course, you can't ever please SJWs, so they'll keep whining even when they get exactly what they ask for.

You know, that sounds a wee bit like stereotyping. I've seen a lot of "SJWs" on Tumblr who were quite happy with Zarya. I just had to type her name into the search engine and I got plenty of people praising her.

 

[theNater]

So the SJW/Tumblr are ok with the other cliche archetypes, but not with a female version of the Heavy from TF2?

Near as I can tell, the "SJW/Tumblr" are pretty happy with Zarya, and the complaints are mostly coming from people who desperately want something to be wrong with her because they can't stand the thought that the "SJW/Tumblr" have encouraged something nice.

 

[MCerberus]

You wanna know devs in similar genres that try hard without overdoing it? Go look at Riot and Reverge, both have artists that are absolutely in love with the splashes and models they make, or even at other Blizzard [s/]ripoffs[/s] products, where overdesigning things is ok and is consistent in-universe, Zarya just doesn't look like she fits the same as the other characters to me.

Riot's weird. They have half the art teams desperately scrambling to ensure the new champs at least have pants, and half the art team making splashes trying to imitate the spine-twisting excesses of comic male gaze poses.

Right...I never thought I'd see someone use male gaze unironically...

Spoiler: Look at all that pantsless male gaze!

Of all those(some of the most recent skins, champs, and splash updates), the only time you'd be able to even make the slightest amount of sense saying male gaze like that, is the DJ skin, which has a helluva lotta work put into it, the least amount of which is her body.

If male gaze weren't a form on pandering that companies use all the time.
Meanwhile, the new Katarina splash

 

[Denamic]

Ok guys, seriously. How the heck this Thread reach to talk about Tumblr and SJW?
Of course I didn't sit to read all this posts to understand more, but again, why?

Because it was because of the SJW crusade that this character was designed like this, and tumblr is an SJW hive.

Of course, you can't ever please SJWs, so they'll keep whining even when they get exactly what they ask for.

You know, that sounds a wee bit like stereotyping. I've seen a lot of "SJWs" on Tumblr who were quite happy with Zarya. I just had to type her name into the search engine and I got plenty of people praising her.

The label 'SJW' refers to the people who fit into this 'stereotype', and it is therefore not a stereotype. By referring to SJWs, I am not referring to people who just anyone who has criticisms about character designs, or people who act and speak to promote acceptance and reasonable representation. I'm referring to the extremist loudmouths.

Social justice is in of itself not a bad concept; it is the vocal minority that take their armchair activism too far in the name of whatever cause they push that's called 'SJWs'. Keyboard warriors that believe they're on a holy crusade of justice. Like tumblr feminists. You should know the type by now.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Subtlety? This is a character for a game where the other characters include a gorilla from the moon in power armor, a Budist robot monk, a medic named Mercy with angel wings, a German soldier in twelve foot tall power armor with a giant ass hammer, and a cybernetic cowboy that has a belt buckle that says BAMF. Overwatch is many things. Subtle is not one of them. It isn't trying to be subtle and really I don't think it should be, really trying to be subtle would conflict with the overall tone they're going for. And frankly I don't really get why everyone I've talked to dislikes Reaper. I think he looks cool. When I think of "edge" I think of Shadow the Hedgehog saying "DAMN" in the most forced way ever or saying "this is like taking candy from a baby, which is fine by me." I dunno, I just have a preference for shamelessly evil characters who can be pretty flashy about it, something Reaper pulls off. Hey, I like black, skull masks and dual wielding. What can I say?

im gonna keep talking about TF2 because, i love that shit

TF2 is a game of absurdity, the soldier's ex-roommate is a wizard, Australia is full of super muscular, ultra smart people because of a mineral buried below the ground called australium, New Zealand is an underwater utopia, stairs werent invented until 1857 and people used rocket jumping to reach second floors, etc

is a world of absolute non-sense, but they still manage to come up with subtle, clean desgins for the characters that only hint at their personalities

i cant believe you like the reaper, seriously, its way worse than this girl, way worse

The game also has characters who are French, German, Egyptian, British, Indian, Swedish, Japanese and American. I don't see why we can't have a Russian too. Also, the American is a cowboy, the French lady is sexy, the German is old fashioned, so I think it's safe to say that this game is taking stereotypes and running with them. And that's not a bad thing. Stereotypes are only bad when they get stale, if a game can put a fresh and entertaining twist on them then by all means use all the stereotypes in the world.

again thats not the problem, TF2 does this too, the texan is a cowboy, the strongman is a russian, the scottish man is drunk, the german is a sadist medic, the french is a snob, the patriotic american is stupid, etc

but this is only hinted or simply conveyed via the character banter


look, the other designs you presented previously ARE good, because the whole design of the character doesnt try to communicate the same message, the robomonk, while he has the stereotypical attire of a buddish monk, hes also a robot, something that has nothing to do with spirituality, it makes the design interesting, the huge gorilla in power army is a super smart genius with glasses, etc

You know, really with Heavy it gets ABSURD as to how strong they make him out to be, so I don't know how you can hold up Heavy as a non stereotyped character. What with literal bear hands he can get, how he loves his gun so much he sleeps with it, how he single handily tore down an entire gulag, how Valve even compares Heavy to a bear in their description, how one of his items is a steak sandwich which is just a slab of steak (beacuse Heavy doesn't need bread) how he refers to everyone else as "little babies" how he speaks broken English. So I'm not seeing what line Heavy didn't cross that could be crossed by the minor addition of a few tattoos and pink hair. Also, you're gonna have to point out to me how tattoos is something unique to Russians and how Zayra's hair is punk. It isn't punk hair, it looks adorable. Or do only punks dye their hair pink in your book? In that case, Blizzard has a "punk" in their midst because they based the character off of one of their employees.

wait, im not saying the stereotypical russian has tattos or pink hair, im saying every aspect of the character is trying to communicate the message of "tough", this is not the case of with the heavy, atleast with the original design, the design is clean and subtle, it hints at the personality of the character rather than outright state it, most of the characterization in TF2 is accomplish by the character dialog, which is a great way to do it

You said subtle. Red eyes are something that draws major attention. They aren't subtle. And if we're on this note, what's so tough about bright pink bubblegum hair?

subtlely with the message of toughness, you can see they are trying to convey the idea the character is tough, fine, but by being subtle with this message they can accomplish a much better and clean character design

 

[Erttheking]

Ok guys, seriously. How the heck this Thread reach to talk about Tumblr and SJW?
Of course I didn't sit to read all this posts to understand more, but again, why?

Because it was because of the SJW crusade that this character was designed like this, and tumblr is an SJW hive.

Of course, you can't ever please SJWs, so they'll keep whining even when they get exactly what they ask for.

You know, that sounds a wee bit like stereotyping. I've seen a lot of "SJWs" on Tumblr who were quite happy with Zarya. I just had to type her name into the search engine and I got plenty of people praising her.

The label 'SJW' refers to the people who fit into this 'stereotype', and it is therefore not a stereotype. By referring to SJWs, I am not referring to people who just anyone who has criticisms about character designs, or people who act and speak to promote acceptance and reasonable representation. I'm referring to the extremist loudmouths.

Social justice is in of itself not a bad concept; it is the vocal minority that take their armchair activism too far in the name of whatever cause they push that's called 'SJWs'. Keyboard warriors that believe they're on a holy crusade of justice. Like tumblr feminists. You should know the type by now.

Yeah people keep telling me that, except people seem to be a little fast and loose with the stereotype. In addition to giving the nutty ones way more credit than they deserve. I suppose overall I've just lost respect for the term because so many people pull it out at the drop of a hat. Also I've met plenty of Tumblr feminists who were actually nice people. See, this is what I'm talking about when I say stereotypes.

 

[Karadalis]

Yeah people keep telling me that, except people seem to be a little fast and loose with the stereotype. In addition to giving the nutty ones way more credit than they deserve. I suppose overall I've just lost respect for the term because so many people pull it out at the drop of a hat. Also I've met plenty of Tumblr feminists who were actually nice people. See, this is what I'm talking about when I say stereotypes.

SJWs are people that dont fight for justice or are really interested in actuall justice for everyone
(cause there is only justice, social is just an unneeded tack on to make it sound even more righteus)

They are people who use social stigmas as a weapon when somebody calls them out on nonsense they keep saying.

Example:

SJW: "White males have soooooo much privilige, they are the bane of the western world!"

normal person: "Only the rich are priviliged, no matter what gender or skin color they have..." (get it? cause most SJWs are incredible well off money wise)

SJW: "How dare you harass me! You mysoginistic, racist shitlord!"

Something among those lines.

Youre not a SJW for pointing out that you would like to see more body types for females. However if you spout generelizing crap, being called out on it and then trying to silence the oposition... that makes you a SJW.... hence the W in SJW. Its ironic... since youre wielding it like a weapon.... not fight for it.

Anyways... i still believe blizzard would have done it one way or another... they do have a very creative art design team afterall.

Just... if youre at it blizzard... no more breast breastplates... boobs dont work like that....

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Yeah, the people complaining about Blizzard's lack of diverse body types then and the people complaining about Zarya now are two largely different groups of people.

Although, looking at those hair edits, I find it funny that in order to "fix" Zarya's hair, they want to either be more "nerd" stereotypical with the red hair (like the Mass Effect Femshep contest) or lean further into the Russian stereotypes with the blond hair.

And poor McCree. All this talk about his teammate being a stereotype (such a stereotype that we're having a hard time finding another example in video games), but he's "The Man with No Name...from the Future! Where's his slice of the outrage pie?

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

And pray tell, exactly what does bright pink hair and tattoos give away about Zarya's personality? Heck, according to the official statement from Blizzard, her main personality trait is her desire to uphold the law. She's a protector, who sacrificed her pathway to fame and glory without blinking for a second to fight to protect those who can't protect themselves. And since neither of us could clearly tell that from her having pink hair and tattoos I think it's safe to say she hardly

Yeah well I do. I don't like blonde Zarya but you don't see saying "I can't believe you like that."

As I said before, Zarya is less of a stereotypical "Me big strong Russian," and more of a protector. Heck, really the only stereotypes about Zarya being a big strong tough Russian who fights bears seem to be the ones you're giving to her. She's a Russian with big muscles, that's all there is to her about stereotypes so maybe you should stop trying to read things where there aren't.

I'm still failing to see how pink hair is tough. It's way too bright and cheerful. Not to mention overall her facial expressions are kind of on the soft side. And her tatoos really don't have a "tough" vibe to her either. Also who said that the point of the design was to convey toughness? That seems to be a conclusion that you reached on your own.

 

[Karadalis]

Snip

And pray tell, exactly what does bright pink hair and tattoos give away about Zarya's personality? Heck, according to the official statement from Blizzard, her main personality trait is her desire to uphold the law. She's a protector, who sacrificed her pathway to fame and glory without blinking for a second to fight to protect those who can't protect themselves. And since neither of us could clearly tell that from her having pink hair and tattoos I think it's safe to say she hardly

Yeah well I do. I don't like blonde Zarya but you don't see saying "I can't believe you like that."

As I said before, Zarya is less of a stereotypical "Me big strong Russian," and more of a protector. Heck, really the only stereotypes about Zarya being a big strong tough Russian who fights bears seem to be the ones you're giving to her. She's a Russian with big muscles, that's all there is to her about stereotypes so maybe you should stop trying to read things where there aren't.

I'm still failing to see how pink hair is tough. It's way too bright and cheerful. Not to mention overall her facial expressions are kind of on the soft side. And her tatoos really don't have a "tough" vibe to her either. Also who said that the point of the design was to convey toughness? That seems to be a conclusion that you reached on your own.

I would say that it tells that Zarya apparantly hasnt spent some time thinking her haircolor through.

In a gunfight the last thing you want on your head is a really bright color... for obvious headshotty reasons...

 

[Ishal]

i cant believe you like the reaper, seriously, its way worse than this girl, way worse

I actually kinda like Reaper as well.

You're not wrong about the whole "edgelord" image. But I don't really think it's as in your face. In the cinematic trailer he only says like two things and laughs.

Plus, being called "Reaper" fits with his profile on what it says about him. From what I read they call him that because of A) his appearance and B) the fact that his previous victims have all been members of Overwatch.

That and, well, Reaper being of course a reference to the Grim Reaper. The OG Edgelord. /shrug.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Snip

And pray tell, exactly what does bright pink hair and tattoos give away about Zarya's personality? Heck, according to the official statement from Blizzard, her main personality trait is her desire to uphold the law. She's a protector, who sacrificed her pathway to fame and glory without blinking for a second to fight to protect those who can't protect themselves. And since neither of us could clearly tell that from her having pink hair and tattoos I think it's safe to say she hardly

Yeah well I do. I don't like blonde Zarya but you don't see saying "I can't believe you like that."

As I said before, Zarya is less of a stereotypical "Me big strong Russian," and more of a protector. Heck, really the only stereotypes about Zarya being a big strong tough Russian who fights bears seem to be the ones you're giving to her. She's a Russian with big muscles, that's all there is to her about stereotypes so maybe you should stop trying to read things where there aren't.

I'm still failing to see how pink hair is tough. It's way too bright and cheerful. Not to mention overall her facial expressions are kind of on the soft side. And her tatoos really don't have a "tough" vibe to her either. Also who said that the point of the design was to convey toughness? That seems to be a conclusion that you reached on your own.

i already explained, tough ness, punk style hair is assotiated with toughness, tatoos are assotiated with tough ness

lets leave it like this, each on his own

 

[Trishbot]

Fun trivia
"Zarya" is Slavic for "water priestess" and "protector of the warriors".

And she's just that. A tank class that creates protective shields and supports for her teammates.

 

[SweetShark]

Fun trivia
"Zarya" is Slavic for "water priestess" and "protector of the warriors".

And she's just that. A tank class that creates protective shields and supports for her teammates.

Also it seems it is a name of a Russian satellite in real life.
I bet my money they combined those two fun facts.