Gergar12 said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Gergar12 said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Well the faction may appeal to historical nuts, the kind of people who want to start from the beginning.
The NCR, with all their tech and ideals, don't actually know what that entails and how logistics are important. Its like a toddler trying to build a giant death bot. While impressive, there is a lot that can go wrong.
The Van Buren documents paint the NCR in the Mojave as a shadow, a faction that grew too fast without fortifying anything. Since their hold on land was weak, they lost contact with the rest of the NCR.
The NCR in New vegas follow in spirit, but not extactly.
They follow old world ideas, but lack the world that actually made it possible. The NCR has no standardization, which is a negative for modern warfare. Lack of standardization has no bearing on melee warfare, which the legion uses, and is actually a good thing.
Without the factories, and without infrastructure those ideals fail. The NCR needs the standardization of the old world armies to compete.
They need standard training. Standard armor. Standard weapons. The NCR lacks the ability to do any of that on an actual scale. Standardization makes warfare with guns much easier, but the good stuff is held for absolute last.
Ever wonder why the first recon, the best sniper unit in the NCR, use hunting rifles that are falling apart? Which is a WWII-esque technology, when the real old world used semi auto snipers and powerful .50 cals? Because the NCR's equipment is actually limited. First recon even says its because hunting rifles are common to the farmland they pluck the soldiers from. They didn't even bother to give them anything better.
The first recon should have .50 caliber snipers if the NCR knew what the hell it as doing and followed old world mentalities.
They even use T-45d power armor as their "shock troopers." This armor was horrible, even by old world standards. It chewed through energy cells like, as one soldier put it, "chans in a rice buffet." Run out of energy, and you were trapped in your own armor. The real game changer was the T-51b, which is nowhere to be found in the NCR even though it was common in California, and they got a metric fuck ton of suits from the war with the brotherhood. California has the most military bases of any state in the Union as well, enough to field a large army. The NCR has little excuse outside of laziness to not outfit their troops beyond what they bring when they fucking enlist.
The old world nations built up their nations. Their military, culture, and infrastructure. The NCR did none of it when expanding. They would grab a toddler with a spork and spend him out to fight if they could. Armies need investment.
The NCR has little defensible infrastructure.
The NCR has general custard to World War I to 1700s era level military style. They are all over the place and it shows. The NCR lose men every day and have very few to replace them, they don't have the luxury of a meat grinder from the 1700s that kills a lot of their troops. The 1700s was a time of non standardized guns, and huge casualties but this was a time when human population was booming by untold numbers. Everything was going right for humanity at the time, but not in Fallout's world were water isn't even guaranteed. The NCR are getting way ahead of themselves. They don't have the standardization, training, entrenchment, or coordination to pull off WWI-WWII military strategies either. They sure as hell don't have any of the requirements for modern warfare tactics. Their entire military and its leadership is one big joke.
The NCR has no actual end game, or actual strategy beyond a primitive form of imperialism. Sure they get the hoover, but what next? They have water and power yet they don't even bother to entrench their position for over 4 years? What the hell is NCR thinking to NOT entrench the hell out of the dam with everything they got? The dam provides water and power for the majority of the entire west coast. That is a HUGE benefit that should be protected at all costs.
The NCR wants it all without the work the old world required. If they actually did actually open their purse and invest, the legion wouldn't stand a chance when they are sniped by master snipers with actual equipment, face shock troopers with actual power armor, bombed with the NCR's vertibird airforce, and bombarded with artillery. A little work, and NCR's problems would all go away, but instead they send the good stuff to protect a bunch of cows in California.
On the other hand, the legion and house are focused strong men governments and those always fail when the leader inevitably dies. Their progress is lost because an incredibly centralized government runs that risk when all the power lands on a single man with a cult of personality.
So its either young upstarts who have no actual idea of what made the old world ideas work in the first place, or two strong men governments that won't last a single human generation. That's what it all boils down to. The only up side is that the legion is a bit more realistic in its expectations in regards to its world. It knows its a crude government for a crude world, and doesn't try to bullshit you into thinking its America 2.0.
I disagree, the NCR is not the best it can be, but some of the things you wrote are wrong.
1. The NCR did entrench, that's why there are snipers, and rangers are the river that snipe boats, and various anger depots.
2.the m24 bolt action preferred by snipers who don't like semti because of better accuracy given by bolt actions fires similar rounds to the hunting rifle.
3. 50cals are used, along with brush guns by the veteran rangers who are the true snipers
4. They have do somewhat of a standard troopers are armed with m16 like rifles, and trooper armor. Rangers are armed with .357 repeaters, and ranger armor. The recons are armed with hunting rifles, and their armor.
5. Van burden was not released, and it was non canon.
6. Power armor needs training etc.
7. The gunrunners are an infrastructure, which supply guns to the NCR, and does not need to be defended.
8. The fact that the legion even uses melee weapons is enough of a drawback, that even if they don't have standard melee weapons, they are going to get killed easily.
9. The NCR did not lose contact with the west they still have long 81 , which in my version is still there.
10. The NCR back west have a high population you also make it soild like they are fighting a equal faction, but you are wrong the NCR are stronger in almost every way to the legion, their manpower can be drawn from both gouls, and humans along with the fact that they have many settlements under their control along with most of California.
The best faction in fallout would have to be the Midwestern branch of the brotherhood of steel, and if they combined with the east, they would be unstoppable. They have lots of manpower ie humans gouls, deathclaws, robots, super mutants. Their culture is growing as a accepting all people culture, and they have lots of technology at hand, keep in mind this is the best ending for them.
1. If the NCR entrenched, there would be bunkers. Tossing around a couple sandbags and makeshift walls is not an entrenchment. Even sloan says entrenchment is new and stifled because of the deathclaws at quarry junction.
2. The DKS-501 model sniper rifle is the legendary standard for sniping for Fallout's universe. It is unparalleled, even with the older models. There is no "bolt action is better" especially when they use the same caliber. Since the hunting rifle is made post war and misaligned, there is little reason to use the hunting rifle when the DKS-501 is available.
3. Rangers, not troopers. The rangers are not the main branch of the military. In fact, they are their own faction that is alongside the NCR army.
4. No, their rifles are semi autos and cheaply made trash. Their armor is not much better. Even Chief Hanlon talks about how the NCR doesn't standardize every soldier. They get what they can get.
5. New Vegas was based on Van Buren designed documents. NCR being in a bind is canon. I said this in the damn post, at least read through the fucking thing.
6. The NCR have trained engineers repairing a fucking dam and building structures. The NCR has training, and its been shown they KNOW the secret to power armor.
7. The gun runners don't factor into shit when the NCR pays the lowest bidder for its supplies. Since its been established the routes are completely fucked, no they cannot defend themselves.
8. The NCR use low caliber weapons as standard, and route the moment they see a legionary. The Legion is winning for a reason, because the NCR doesn't want to shell out for a real military.
9. I was explaining the stuff they based the NCR on. Are you even fucking reading this or mouthing off on shit you don't even understand? Its clear as fucking day, Ill even bold it for you. See the fucking difference?
IN VAN BUREN AND IN NEW VEGAS? It explains the developer's train of fucking thought.
10. No they don't, they are drafting people to stop the drop of experienced troops. The divide wiped out a whole shit ton of support for the Mojave alone. The NCR's Mojave army is a bunch of conscripts with little training, and rushed into service. Their officers are a bunch of dumb asses. Their equipment is crap and not standard. The actual units are stuck in California and Baja chasing small time bandits because the brass was being spiteful to each other and took it out on the troops.
The NCR is by no means the strongest. They are a shell of the country they were in Fallout 2, and a lot of the Tandi era laws were over turned.
1. It is in fallout world, and good enough to stop Zerg rushing recruits which a plenty in the game.
2. But the sniper rifle has less health, and les damage for more dps while the hunting rifle has more Dmg while less dps. Hunting rifle also fire 1495 shots before breaking vs 395 shots, and are more common. Some NCR troops do have the sniper rifle, but the hunting rifle was made for desert combat with its higher reliability, and it also has a lower price.
3. Rangers are a NCR diversion and special forces also they carry very good weapons, and all can shoot very well.
4. They are still better than the legion recruit weapons some of which are.357 pistols, and machetes, and the armor is also better than legion recruit armor.
5. Based so what it's still another game with another plot. It also says the burned man aka hanged man was a psychic murderer what's your point. I aso never say the NCR weren't blind stop putting crap in my words, but I say they were less blind, and more standard than the legion which is good seeing how the legion does nothing but Zerg charges, and killing off towns.
6. The engineered are where they should be, and power armor is limited, and most of it is still in brotherhood hands, and the t51bs are back west.
7. But the 2nd recon do buy its weapons for them, and the gun runners are an NCR supply line. The NCR also supply lines also don't require troopes to guard.it even says in the wiki the NCR source of engery weapons, and ammo come from vault city, and the gun runners who can defend themselves.
8. .556 NATO is not small, and they don't route give me proof where did it said on the wiki they route.
9. The train of through seems to destroyed by fact that the ncr are still supplyed by the long81, so saying the NCR lost contract is a childish way of putting it.
10. The NCR are still in control of vault city, redding, shady sands, boneyard, Baja, bullhead city, and most of the core region.
No the NCR is not the strongest I never say it was did you even read what I say about the fucking Midwest branch of the brotherhood of steel, but it is stronger than the legion, and is the largest known military force in post nuclear America. Also the NCR also can draw its strength from the fact that people think its better vs the legion, and won't die in when its leader dies. Also the NCR was able to 1700 charge the brotherhood of steel, and win purly based on numbers.
5.
1. What world it is makes no difference. Your argument is incredibly reaching. The NCR wants bunkers right before the legion hits, yet 4 years have passed of pure opportunity.
2. Game mechanics don't really matter to lore. Hunting rifles are post war, made poorly because of their misaligned sights. The DKS-501 is the legendary standard for accuracy, standard for the military. Standard for armories, which California has a lot of. The armories have enough weapons to field an army much bigger than the NCR's.
The sniper only has less health because of its critical damage bonus. A boon for real snipers. Raw damage and DPS only matters in straight up fights, which the bolt action is a liability in. The accuracy of the DKS-501 is the legendary standard for sniping in the old world. Health of the gun doesn't really matter because that's a game mechanic to stop the player from spamming weapons like in Fallout 1. Its been known NPCs clean and take care of their guns, the courier doesn't.
3. Rangers are "the best" yet they are a separate division founded by survivalists. They are not part of the actual army. The actual army needs range and capability in modern war, without that its a horrible outdated army.
4. Yet the legion still wins and stays in the fight most of the time. What does that say about the NCR's military? Keep in mind the .357 is not a caliber to be joked about.
5. Blind? I said IN A BIND. Which means THEY ARE HAVING TROUBLE. The legion doesn't NEED standardization, the military tactics it uses doesn't RELY on it like the NCR.
6. What? The engineered are where they should be? What the fuck do you even mean? The brotherhood LOST the war, and most of their armor was TAKEN by the NCR. Not only that, but Power armor is COMMON, especially in military armories. California is said to have the MOST military bases and armories of any state. 32 of them, full with equipment that would easily field the NCR.
T-51bs should be at the front lines, not back protecting brahmin from small time russlers while the unreliable 45s are at the front.
7. First recon's leader says they use hunting rifles because its what they used back home before they enlisted. You can go back and check yourself. Since NCR's supply lines are fucked, the gun runners can easily be attacked the route cut off. You don't need much to cut off a supply line, especially when the NCR can't protect its own roads.
8. Route, as in, RUNNING AWAY AND DESERTION. There are PLENTY of fucking NCR deserters around. Hell, one even sells weapons at the fucking 188, a group mugs you in the Vikki and Vance, and forlorn hope has plenty saying they will desert. The service rifle they use is done for cheap, not for stopping power or anything else. Just like automaticc assault rifles, they use smaller calibers because any bigger would fuck with the mechanism and make it unreliable. So instead of a range of rifles for a range of uses like the old world, they use one rifle for the majority of their force because it was the cheapest way to outfit an army. Since the 5.56 isn't the "go to" caliber for breaking body armor, I doubt it would do anything against power armor plating, which the legion uses from time to time. They break power armor into bits and integrate it into the armor of the higher officers who find it, which is way more than the NCR gets in terms of armor.
The NCR use a thin metal plate or leather for their chest armor, the .357 the legion uses isn't outclassed. Bullets are not the main issue here, its the armor they are facing. Some recruits wouldn't be an issue for a 5.56, but the bigger legionaries certainly would be. Compared to the NCR, a .357 would be equally lethal to all NCR troopers.\
Hell even by your own in game logic, NCR armor is outclassed. a .357 revolver does 28 damage at full repair compared to the NCR armor's 10 DT. A service rifle does 18 damage at full repair, and the upper legionary armor has a DT of 18. Considering service rifles are not always at full repair, that would put legion armor neck and neck with the NCR weapons. Legion weapons on the other hand destroy NCR armor, even the machete they use does 11 attack.
9. The train of thought is that the NCR is in trouble and a shell of its former self. The rest is semantics.
10. Fallout: tactics is not entirely canon. Other than we know it exists, nothing is known about them. The entire military is disliked back in California because all it does is kill people, they have no will to fight anymore. Largest army does not mean best or effective, an army that runs away most of the time is not an army.
The legion may be "under equipped" but they have the NCR in a bind because they have actual plans and espionage networks. The NCR just sits there with their heads up their ass and hoping they can beat the legion.
