New Wonder Woman Trailer

[bastardofmelbourne]

Except the "replacement" Superman is the real Superman. It's been established during the final run of Nu52 Superman and the Lois and Clark mini-series that he was not the real Superman.

I never said he wasn't real. He's the Superman of 1986-2011, the one I'm most familiar with. But he has kind of just hopped over into the post-Flashpoint universe with his son and his Lois to replace his more controversial counterpart.

I've got mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, New 52 Superman was a deeply flawed and misguided character, and he never really evolved enough to earn my affections. On the other hand, replacing him with the Superman we like just busts open another can of continuity worms that DC will need to deal with later.

I would've preferred a more elegant transition of the character they had to be more like his predecessor, or failing that, just a straight-faced retcon that I can file away and ignore easily.

Be thankful Superhero movies have not made their own Spiderman One More Day yet.

God, I don't even know what that would look like. Just...I don't know, a shoddy version of Days of Future Past, without any of the action, plot, or acting.

OMD was a bare fucking retcon disguised as a narrative. It existed for the sole purpose of undoing Spiderman and MJ's relationship on the whims of a misguided editor. The only way a film could be as bad if is an entire film was made solely for the purposes of petty, spiteful revenge.

Like, ninety straight minutes of "Fuck Robert Downey Junior" flashing and interspersed with photoshopped pictures of him and a variety of barnyard animals.

 

[Callate]

Wonder Woman is my favorite superhero precisely because of how often I like the way her femininity factors into her dynamic between allies and enemies. More often than not, this is well-written, but there have been some catastrophic failures in this regard as well. I don't think this movie could possibly sink as low as some of her comic arcs, but I'm nonetheless excited to see what kind of Wonder Woman we get - a badass warmonger who is comically ignorant and dismissive of modernity and civil manner, or an extremely powerful, exceptionally empathetic fighter who doesn't hesitate to crack skulls, but always prefers mercy and restorative justice over retribution and conflict.

It looks like the movie is going more for the former, but I hope they do it to realize the fun awesomeness of the character, rather than trying to shoehorn in political messages. One could argue that those are inseparable, and to a degree, I would agree - I just hope there isn't too much of an intentional "girl power" message being pandered here.

I suppose the other, interlocking issue is Chris Pine's character. Setting the movie during World War I guarantees that, one way or another, his character is almost certainly dead by the time of BvSoJ. And it seems all but certain that that's going to be played as a source of pathos; it's just a question of whether it's "All my powers, and I couldn't save him"-flavored pathos, or "Who wants to live forever"-flavored pathos.

But whichever it turns out to be, playing up the "macho knucklehead of his era" and/or the "man who wants to protect the girl despite the fact that she's way more powerful and competent than him" might work for comedy- but it could out and out fail in creating a character who will make us feel bad when he dies. And depending how important that is, and how much we're supposed care, that could be a significant stumble. Doubly so if we, as an audience, are essentially told that this character is important to Wonder Woman but we never see compelling evidence as to why.

 

[Cicada 5]

Not a bad trailer. Right now I'm leaning towards seeing this movie, perhaps even opening week, unless the reviews warn otherwise.

My one big concern is that they may be so determined to do the "Powerful female superhero who doesn't need any help to get by in a man's world" angle that they fail to create any real sense of tension or risk.

Wonder Woman is my favorite superhero precisely because of how often I like the way her femininity factors into her dynamic between allies and enemies. More often than not, this is well-written, but there have been some catastrophic failures in this regard as well. I don't think this movie could possibly sink as low as some of her comic arcs, but I'm nonetheless excited to see what kind of Wonder Woman we get - a badass warmonger who is comically ignorant and dismissive of modernity and civil manner, or an extremely powerful, exceptionally empathetic fighter who doesn't hesitate to crack skulls, but always prefers mercy and restorative justice over retribution and conflict.

It looks like the movie is going more for the former, but I hope they do it to realize the fun awesomeness of the character, rather than trying to shoehorn in political messages. One could argue that those are inseparable, and to a degree, I would agree - I just hope there isn't too much of an intentional "girl power" message being pandered here.

What about this trailer even suggests she's a warmonger?

 

[Zhukov]

This generation's obssession with having everything be light hearted and jokey is starting to get annoying.

WhoooOOOOOoooOOOooo coooming sooOOoon to a theater near yooOOOooou

 

[Bob_McMillan]

This generation's obssession with having everything be light hearted and jokey is starting to get annoying.

WhoooOOOOOoooOOOooo coooming to a theater near yooOOOooou

If this movie is good, the LEGO cinematic universe will already be more successful reception-wise than the DCEU. That's depressing.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

This generation's obssession with having everything be light hearted and jokey is starting to get annoying.

I think it's more a reflection that since real life itself seems at times about 3 seconds from imploding for whatever reason you care to name that we are swinging back towards less complicated stories that involve (for the most part) very clear divisions between good and evil and our desire to see good triumph over that evil.

I'd actually argue WW1 is more interesting than WW2, but due to its nature is far less useful to a WW story. (Quick, I need more abbreviations with two Ws)

Because if you're trying to convince someone that the world of man is worth a damn, I'm not sure the Great War is going to do that terribly well compared to the war started by real-life super villains.

That's part of the premise; the events of World War 1 cause her to lose faith in humanity for a long time.

Well if you wanted hope and dignity beaten out of you I can think of no finer setting to do it in than the conflict that brought us the Battle of the Somme; frankly one of the bloodiest battles fought in war.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

This generation's obssession with having everything be light hearted and jokey is starting to get annoying.

WhoooOOOOOoooOOOooo coooming sooOOoon to a theater near yooOOOooou

Give me more this DC:

Stop appealing to the Manchildren like Moviebob and Sam's channel and appeaal to me that prefers something like the DCAU at its best, the best comics like Watchmen and Kingdom Come.

This is going back to the Comics Code Authority, Adam West Batman leve of trash, your letting Fredric Wertham win again.

This sucks, I am sorry but Lego Batman the movie sucks my ass because IT IS CHILDISH.

And don't give me that post modernist bullshit that "Grimdark, Edgy, and Adult is just as childish and immature if not more so"

Bullshit, absolute bullshit, who said this, how has this been established and why? That is mindset of someone that never really been through any adult situations.

So what now stuff like The Sopranos and Band of Brothers is now considered immature?

 

[Zhukov]

... sucks my ass because IT IS CHILDISH.

Yeah. Children read comics. Shocking, I know.

Most adults who read comics started as kids.

And don't give me that post modernist bullshit that "Grimdark, Edgy, and Adult is just as childish and immature if not more so"

It's true though. That's what those words mean. "Grimdark" basically means "trying so hard to be dark that it's just silly". Edgy has come to take on a similar meaning. Hence "edgelord".

So what now stuff like The Sopranos and Band of Brothers is now considered immature?

No, because those things are not widely considered "grimdark" or "edgy".

I find your hatred of Lego Batman to be endlessly entertaining, given that the Lego Movie and its take on Batman in particular was all about adults co-opting childish things to the point where those things become unappealing to actual children.

That message was aimed right between your eyes and you not only missed it but continue to exemplify it to such a degree that if I hadn't read so many of your posts I would suspect you were doing it on purpose.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

... sucks my ass because IT IS CHILDISH.

Yeah. Children read comics. Shocking, I know.

Most adults who read comics started as kids.

And don't give me that post modernist bullshit that "Grimdark, Edgy, and Adult is just as childish and immature if not more so"

It's true though. That's what those words mean. "Grimdark" basically means "trying so hard to be dark that it's just silly". Edgy has come to take on a similar meaning. Hence "edgelord".

So what now stuff like The Sopranos and Band of Brothers is now considered immature?

No, because those things are not widely considered "grimdark" or "edgy".

I find your hatred of Lego Batman to be endlessly entertaining, given that the Lego Movie and its take on Batman in particular was all about adults co-opting childish things to the point where those things become unappealing to actual children.

That message was aimed right between your eyes and you not only missed it but continue to exemplify it to such a degree that if I hadn't read so many of your posts I would suspect you were doing it on purpose.

1. But there are also Superhero comics made for adults or has a great amount of Maturity (think the Two Face Batman TAS episode and pretty much the origin episode of Superman TAS) and so far all that maturity is being pushed aside for more stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy and Lego Batman the Movie.

2. No Grimdark now has become a spiteful pejoritive thanks to the success of The Dark Knight.

3. Good I want comics and superheroes to be for adults. Yeah its selfish as hell but I really don't care about what the kids want or if they care about superheroes.

After being exposed to Watchmen and Kingdom Come.

Kids stuff like Lego Batman movie and Guardians of the Galaxy is inferior now to me.

 

[Zhukov]

2. No Grimdark now has become a spiteful pejoritive thanks to the success of The Dark Knight.

That term and that usage predates TDK by a lot. (It comes from the intro text of WH40K, "In the grim darkness of the future" although you probably knew that.")

3. Good I want comics and superheroes to be for adults. Yeah its selfish as hell but I really don't care about what the kids want or if they care about superheroes.

Uh huh.

Consider. If the people who made the animated DC series in the 90s had had that attitude would you care about superheroes today?

But I'm not going to bother lecturing you for being selfish because it doesn't matter. This will ultimately be decided by money and it turns out that there's a crapton of money to be made appealing to children.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

2. No Grimdark now has become a spiteful pejoritive thanks to the success of The Dark Knight.

That term and that usage predates TDK by a lot. (It comes from the intro text of WH40K, "In the grim darkness of the future" although you probably knew that.")

3. Good I want comics and superheroes to be for adults. Yeah its selfish as hell but I really don't care about what the kids want or if they care about superheroes.

Uh huh.

Consider. If the people who made the animated DC series in the 90s had had that attitude would you care about superheroes today?

But I'm not going to bother lecturing you for being selfish because it doesn't matter. This will ultimately be decided by money and it turns out that there's a crapton of money to be made appealing to children.

3. And that is fuckin depressing for me when it comes to money that is the case. As to the 90s animated part.

Mabye I mean I was exposed to stuff like Mortal Kombat, Metal Gear Solid 1, Starcraft 1, and Half Life 1 at a very early age.

And adult-ish anime like Cowboy Bebop, Blue Submarine no.6, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Gundam.

 

[MeatMachine]

What about this trailer even suggests she's a warmonger?

Her stern stoicism and eagerness to jump into combat. Like I said, it seems like they are mostly taking her in that direction, but not all the way. She looks far more reserved in the trailer than she does in other iterations, where she basically behaves like a spartan and sees compromise as a sign of weakness.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Mabye I mean I was exposed to stuff like Mortal Kombat, Metal Gear Solid 1, Starcraft 1, and Half Life 1 at a very early age.

And adult-ish anime like Cowboy Bebop, Blue Submarine no.6, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Gundam.

A great many things have just become clear.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Mabye I mean I was exposed to stuff like Mortal Kombat, Metal Gear Solid 1, Starcraft 1, and Half Life 1 at a very early age.

And adult-ish anime like Cowboy Bebop, Blue Submarine no.6, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Gundam.

A great many things have just become clear.

Oh yeah and Resident Evil 2 and Dragon Ball Z and Samuari Jack.

 

[Laxer]

Hail Hydra!

Hail Hydra!

 

[Antonio Torrente]

Mabye I mean I was exposed to stuff like Mortal Kombat, Metal Gear Solid 1, Starcraft 1, and Half Life 1 at a very early age.

And adult-ish anime like Cowboy Bebop, Blue Submarine no.6, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Gundam.

A great many things have just become clear.

Oh yeah and Resident Evil 2 and Dragon Ball Z and Samuari Jack.

Maybe that's the reason why I'm indifferent to the current DCEU movies, it makes me depressed and if watch a movie I want to escape from the real world for just a few hours because real life is shitty as it is and movie tickets are fucking expensive. Also if want to feel depressed, I will not spend $15-$20 on tickets for any DCEU movies, I'll just watch the news which is free and will not feel I wasted my hard earned money on garbage except as I mentioned make me depressed.

In my opinion, Sam you're someone who didn't mature enough that things don't go and will never go according to what you want. As someone who grew up not getting what I want, you're whining that DCEU is not winning comes as petty to me. Do you have better things to do like finishing your studies or finding a job? Because what you're saying to all of us here is just plain immaturity. How old are you btw?

Note to self:
Well that's what I get for arguing with an immature, emo, sheltered person in an internet forum.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I'd actually argue WW1 is more interesting than WW2, but due to its nature is far less useful to a WW story. (Quick, I need more abbreviations with two Ws)

Because if you're trying to convince someone that the world of man is worth a damn, I'm not sure the Great War is going to do that terribly well compared to the war started by real-life super villains.

Try Walla Walla, Winter Wonderland, William Wallace, and Wishing Well.

I liked this trailer. I don't know if the "300"-like music at the end of the trailer is appropriate though.

If this is 300 like music than they failed at replicating this glorious piece of music from 300:

That "glorious piece of music" is actually a ripoff of a track by Eliot Goldenthal:

The composer for Batman V Superman and Wonder Woman is Junkie XL, aka Tom Holkenberg. He actually did the soundtrack for 300: Rise of an Empire, which is a much better film than the first one, imo.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

Except the "replacement" Superman is the real Superman. It's been established during the final run of Nu52 Superman and the Lois and Clark mini-series that he was not the real Superman.

I never said he wasn't real. He's the Superman of 1986-2011, the one I'm most familiar with. But he has kind of just hopped over into the post-Flashpoint universe with his son and his Lois to replace his more controversial counterpart.

I've got mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, New 52 Superman was a deeply flawed and misguided character, and he never really evolved enough to earn my affections. On the other hand, replacing him with the Superman we like just busts open another can of continuity worms that DC will need to deal with later.

I would've preferred a more elegant transition of the character they had to be more like his predecessor, or failing that, just a straight-faced retcon that I can file away and ignore easily.
.

Nu52 Superman was slowly becoming more like the classic Superman towards the end of Nu52. But bringing Clark and Lois and Jon into the current universe has lead into two of my favorite Rebirth titles. I also really love Jon and his relationship with his dad. But now Jon just met Damian Wayne and they're getting a series together in February.

But I think everyone can agree the best part about Rebirth is OG Wally West returning.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake

it has color it cant be a real DC trailer

Seriously, this is a breath of fresh air.

I'm actually still hoping that they go for a more cynical angle. End the movie with Diana looking around at the world and going, "Y'know what, fuck this noise. You boys and your toys can bloody kill each other. I'm going back to my island paradise." Probably after Chris Pine dies. (Which I'm pretty sure he will. He'd be either dead or very, very old by the time of the Justice League film.) And if there's any war to fit that kind of angle it would be WWI, at least as it exists in popular memory.

The opening dialogue in the trailer even suggests they might be doing this. "I used to want to save the world" etc.

I don't know if fans would like it or if it fits the comics character at all, but a no-longer-naive Wonder Woman who has seen just how shitty humanity can be in her 100+ years of life could give her a distinctive perspective in the team-up movies.

All that said, I'm still far from certain this is what they're going with. It would be very unconventional to end a superhero movie with the heroine saying, "You all suck, I'm peaceing out!"

In the immortal words of Dr. Evil, "How bout no?" Seriously, we've already got Batman with his grim darkness, Superman was way to dark and cynical (And how anyone though THAT was a good idea is STILL beyond me) how about we get ONE DC superhero who's actually optimistic? Just one?