NewClassic's Writing Theory

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

For the record, I've bookmarked this thread as well. Your guide will make a great quick reference tool as opposed to digging through Elements of Style or the AP Style Guide.

Classic, do you really think it's necessary to have an ending already outlined or plotted when writing fiction? I've written a few short stories, and I never have an ending in mind when I start... I just kind of let the story tell itself, if that makes any sense.

I'd hesitate before using this as a reference for the AP Style. I have a lot of stylistic preferences that go against the conventional wisdom of the Associated Press. I could write up a small section for it, but I don't particularly like AP style, so I'm not terribly well-versed in it. I have a copy of the AP-Style Handbook, and could brush up on it. Though that's for a later date, it would take some time to read through it all again. Just be cautious when using this thread for AP writing.

As far as having an ending in mind, it's part of the "make every word tell" mantra. If you write your opening paragaphs/thoughts/chapters before you know where the story is going, then the first chapters tend to become all about the characterization, and makes for a slow opening. Not only should the opening have a hook, but stronger writing never drags its feet. If you go for long periods without knowing the overall direction for the story, then the prose will meander aimlessly.

It's not impossible to salvage it, but it's good practice to simply know where you're going before you can get there. Knowing the destination before the journey starts makes for more brisk writing, better direction, and stronger as it is getting there.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

I agree with Maet that its of more use as an overview, but its a very pleasant, informative one that upholds the standards it explains. While I'm vaguely familiar with a lot of the ideas discussed, whatever I come across tends to be explained in a stuffy manner and fails to stay in my mind, while I struggle to implement anything I do learn (especially some of the more finicky grammatical rules).

I really appreciate the effort you must have gone to in writing this. However, the section on form seemed quite incomplete to me, as there's certainly more to be said on the subject than the contributions of figures of speech to a piece of writing. I know I'm just being one of the people suggesting something as its of use to myself, but I'm sure I'm not the only one with a poorly defined authorial style who would find it useful.

I was suprised by your quite favourable attitude towards cliches. While I agree in a sense with what you say, I err more towards what I read in an essay by Orwell saying that such tired verbal mechanisms lack a fresh impact in the readers mind, and that imagining new constructs could be more beneficial. On that subject, I'm not sure if its part of what you are trying to address, but perhaps a section on the usage of metaphors and similies in writing could be useful?

I'm sorry if this is coming across as some kind of wish-list borne out of a sense of self-entitlement, its really not meant to come across that way. I really enjoyed reading it and feel I gained something from it.

 

[Trivun]

[HEADING=3]Short Story[/HEADING]
The short story is a difficult part of fiction because it tells a large story in a short space. This means creating a world, characters, plot, personality, and life in the space of 800-10,000 words, and can become quite taxing on the author to fit so much into such a small space. Because of this, short stories are the physical manifestation of good word-use.

A good short story must have all of the elements of good fiction, without any of the space to really develop each of them at length. This means it will rely largely on the reader's ability to visualize the world with little instruction, and come to care for characters in a short time. This makes short stories challenging in that filling every word with so much information is a must.

There isn't much instruction to writing a good short-story than being on-topic at all times, and following the rules of good writing and good fiction writing. Remember that detail is good sparingly, and oversaturation will kill a story before understatement will. It is better to err on the side of brief.

Very good points Nuke. Personally when writing a short story I find it's similar to producing a short film, and this quoted bit basically sums up the idea perfectly. Very nice work, it's things like this thread that make you so awesome, so thank you

 

[tyleroi]

Great work; I've had to go through the The Elements of Style multiple times during my education and this is a great summary (with personal opinion/commentary added in).

A quick comment/suggestion for everyone concerning the bit on cliches; my creative writing teacher simply warned the class on the first day that any use of cliches will be met with a failure on the assignment. Talking with her I learned that this wasn't her real belief but, like NewClassic says, they need to be earned and many beginning writers are better off not using them. So... there's a little tip on cliches.

 

[Anarchemitis]

Nuke: Great idea to put this up, you're probably the best person to do so, and I feel many Escapists could learn a lot from reading and learning what you've got to say.

Therefore, I propose this gets stickied before it falls into a void-like decay of yonder older pages.

 

[APPCRASH]

Old. When someone posts the same thing you find in your comp. 101 book just on the forums we praise him as god's gift to man, but when your college composition teacher preaches THE EXACT SAME THING, we dismiss them as normal, boring, nit-pickery. I am ashamed to call you forum-mates.

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

I really appreciate the effort you must have gone to in writing this. However, the section on form seemed quite incomplete to me, as there's certainly more to be said on the subject than the contributions of figures of speech to a piece of writing. I know I'm just being one of the people suggesting something as its of use to myself, but I'm sure I'm not the only one with a poorly defined authorial style who would find it useful.

I was suprised by your quite favourable attitude towards cliches. While I agree in a sense with what you say, I err more towards what I read in an essay by Orwell saying that such tired verbal mechanisms lack a fresh impact in the readers mind, and that imagining new constructs could be more beneficial. On that subject, I'm not sure if its part of what you are trying to address, but perhaps a section on the usage of metaphors and similies in writing could be useful?

I was afraid, if I had gone too far into form, that it would repeat information from Style, Syntax, and Word-Use, so I kept it brief in favor of remarking only on the points that had not previously been mentioned. In an effort to be encompassing, yet brief. I'm certain I could flesh out each of these headings to be their own articles, it would have defeated the purpose of the thread to begin with. Maybe I can update later posts with more detail, but as an overview, this is as specific as I'm comfortable getting.

As far as the cliches are concerned, I find there's nothing inherently right or wrong about words. In any particular order, "the pen is mightier than the sword" are still just a collection of words. If used in a tired and drawn out manner, they will have less of a remarkable impact. The same could be said for repeated use of a word like "clean" in a paragraph. Optionally, cliches can be used to circumvent the reader's understanding of what will happen. "It was a dark and stormy night, and my favorite kind of night to go on walks." would be a line that can definitively establish personality, navigate around the expectations of the reader, and still get its message across.

As far as metaphor/simile, that's more tied with style than I like to go into. It's a personal thing, and something I don't like to really comment to deeply on. Not too unlike essays.

That said, the section on written forms is crying out to be expanded upon. Actually, the whole piece is quite serviceable as an overview, but many sections need to be fleshed out if it?s to be taken as a viable resource. As it stands, what I see is a handful of tips reworded and rephrased into infinity.

I feel like there's more to this thread than just a handful of tips. Granted, some sentiments are repeated. Really, "detailed overview" is really as far as I was willing to go while covering this much information. I'm considering slowing down and sitting on certain topics, but I really don't want to go into that much detail in the original article.

Old. When someone posts the same thing you find in your comp. 101 book just on the forums we praise him as god's gift to man, but when your college composition teacher preaches THE EXACT SAME THING, we dismiss them as normal, boring, nit-pickery. I am ashamed to call you forum-mates.

I apologize if I've misplaced your statement, but are you questioning the validity of my article because people have heard this advice before and ignored it?

I admit that much of this is just my personal experience with writing (primarily from the fantastic Elements of Style), and even cite that before I begin with my points. These are basic habits, but they're effective ones. It's a less than 5,000 word article speaking the same lesson as a 100-500 page Composition Handbook.

Sorry if you don't like my article, but I can assure you that there's no need to address us with this type of aggression.

 

[scotth266]

Nuke: Great idea to put this up, you're probably the best person to do so, and I feel many Escapists could learn a lot from reading and learning what you've got to say.

Therefore, I propose this gets stickied before it falls into a void-like decay of yonder older pages.

Seconded. This, as well as Nivag's badge thread, should be stickied at once. It would just save us so much pain...

I personally don't find this necessary, but then again, I got a 720 on the English SAT's. Others will likely find it a great resource, and for that I salute you NewClassic. If I ever learn to make a fighting game, you shall be a secret character.

 

[ILPPendant]

A very nice piece of work. The Narrative Theory you wrote was quite interesting and useful - should I ever find myself in the unfortunate position of being creative - but the Umbrella Theory and Practice of Writing was nothing I hadn't seen before - though perhaps it would be fairer to say that they confirmed what I'd suspected for a while now. However, could I trouble you for a few comments on semantics, particularly the repetition of words or even sounds? For instance, does it bother you when certain words are repeated even there are no serviceable or convenient synonyms available? It is something that drives me mad with worry but doesn't seem to bother a number of people that I've asked. (See how I used "bother" twice in as many sentences? Normally I'd change that during proofreading.)

Perhaps it would also be worth throwing in a mention of sentence length, as reader comprehension apparently plummets spectacularly when a sentence exceeds 15 words. At least, that would explain why no one pays much attention to what I say!

 

[Liverandbacon]

Editing

Writers are like mothers, and their writing are their babies. By that logic, editors are the necessary evil of the writing world. To improve something, it has to first be analyzed (and possibly disassembled) with clinical detachment. This is necessary for writing, and an editor is key for this.

Editing is about the ultimate cleanliness of the finished product, so being able to take criticism is key. Finding a good editor, and following that editor's advice is just as much a part of the writing process as putting pen to paper in the first place.

In the case of self-editing, the best tool is the "sound" of writing. To do this, force yourself to read the draft aloud word for word. Every verbal stumble, momentary pause, or hiccup in the text is something that can be reworked for spelling, syntax, or grammar. It is at that point that you need to decide whether or not that passage needs editing.

And like any and all critiques, remember that not all advice is the bottom line. Sometimes it's alright to disregard editor's advice. Like grammar or spelling variances, this too is a very precarious position and should be practised with the utmost caution. In 99.9% of situations, editors will have good suggestions for the writer.

I've never really considered editors evil. In fact, I love them, since their constructive criticism saves me from the unconstructive criticism that I'd receive from the general audience.

As an amateur editor, I find myself between a rock and a hard place on occasion. Yes, I'm going to be cruel to your work, but it's in love, truly. The better the writer the more nit-pick I have to become to offer helpful, worthwhile criticism. As such I will often point out mistakes in one piece which, when repeated in another, I pass over because there are bigger issues.

If you're going to ask me to edit your work (this is a general statement) expect rough, but fair treatment. Don't expect a gush of compliments to make you feel better.

Nuke: Great idea to put this up, you're probably the best person to do so, and I feel many Escapists could learn a lot from reading and learning what you've got to say.

I've never thought of editors as evil. In fact, I love the constructive criticism they provide, because it saves me from the unconstructive criticism of the general audience. The only time I hate an editor is when the criticism is unconstructive i.e. "your writing sucks). I could go to anyone for that.

 

[StarStruckStrumpets]

Wow...you've basically covered about 7 years of English lessons in one post. Congratulations. If only I had discovered this before I bothered to go to Primary School. Now I've gotta go through two more years of High School listening to the same things over and over.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

I'm certain I could flesh out each of these headings to be their own articles, it would have defeated the purpose of the thread to begin with

You haven't directly stated what the purpose of the thread is (apart from the general nature of words). Your introduction does little more than lead into the main body of the work while explaining your debt to The Elements of Style. Maybe thats why a few people are criticising it for not being some kind of Hitchhiker's guide to the grammarverse (thats the nearest to a witty comment about an all-encapsulating writing document I could come up with). Perhaps a sentence explaining your intentions would reduce the amount of misguided suggestions and accusations that have come your way?

 

[Baby Tea]

And you wonder why I kept coming to you for feedback on my story thread?
Nuke, stop being so darned humble!

Great post, to stay on topic. Bookmarked immediately! But don't worry, I'll still be bugging you when I start writing my next piece! Moohoohaw! You cannot escape me!

 

[LANCE420]

I'm glad that someone is trying to bring good grammar and style to the people of online forums.
It is nice to see someone give a shit about the writing style of people on the web.

 

[Erana]

Vocabulary
The difference between "enervated" and "exhausted" is minute (in definition), but plays a very large role in application. Word choice and vocabulary defines part of the voice of a character, writer, or article. Using words like "your justly earned vengeance" and "may the blades of a thousand warriors cleave your head from your spine" will paint a clear picture of anger and hatred where "you deserved that" and "I hope you die" will only allude briefly to the former sentiments. Choosing simpler words and informal language can make as much a statement as using English textbook formality and intricate articulation. Remember this as you write, and it could mean the difference between having a destitute reader, or a comfortable one.

I find that recently, the use of more simple statements, like "you diserve that" have a greater emotional power, if only because it asserts a sense of dismissal. Of course, that applies to certain contexts, such as an online forum...

 

[October Country]

Thank you so much for putting this piece on the Escapist, it was a very helpful read as an aspiring writer, even if similar to The Elements of Style.
Sadly, I have a bit of a problem with editing my own work. I know it is important if anyone is to read it and if I am to have any hope of being published, but it can be tiresome to look at a hundred pages of fiction in severe need of an editor, and when I finally get to doing it, i read over too much and edit far too little. I just love my darlings too much.

I also used to have major issues with writing dialog, though I think it is going much better now. It is all a matter of practice, I suppose.

Anyway, great article!

 

[Echolocating]

For anyone who wants to appreciate concise writing, David Sirlin has a few articles that are worth a read...

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/writing-well-part-1-sensibilities.html
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/writing-well-part-2-clear-thinking-clear-writing.html
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/writing-well-part-3-origins-of-a-writer.html

One of the more interesting things in the articles is the idea that politics contributed greatly to our inability to write and speak concisely. It's amazing how acceptable it is for people to hide behind confusing or needless words. We need to start calling people on their wordy bullshit. ;-)

 

[razer17]

wow. that's a veritable wall of text, especially for a forum post. i haven't read it yet, but have bookmarked it, so I can read it later on. I plan to do some creative writing in the summer holidays after my exams are done. I used to enjoy creative writing but haven't really done anything major. I would quite like to write a book, however short, just for something to do.
Anyway, when i do get around to some actual writing I will thoroughly read this article so i can get some hints.

 

[mjhhiv]

I'll just restating what has already been said: damn. That was fantastic. The only thing I might add is that Michael Harvey's "The Nuts & Bolts of College Writing" is another great resource, similar to the Elements of Style. It helped me a bunch, anyways.

I think that this thread is worthy of another bump, at least

 

[Danny Ocean]

I don't know, my writing style has received a lot of praise from my English teachers, but many other people who read it find it far too conversational. I'm prone to run-ons due to my usage of the comma as a pause in dialogue. I'm getting better, but I'm still not sure how much I'm improving.

I'f it's OK with you I'll type up one of my written essays for subjection to the Nuke-ray! It's not a long one, I think I only wrote it in half an hour; but, I also think it might be good to put an example in this thread from which you can extrapolate and demonstrate your guidelines.

Sound good?