Nintendo Blocks Flash Carts With DSi Software Update

[rembrandtqeinstein]

If you read the fucking post you would see that I have a personel stake with piracy.

Reality doesn't care about your personal connection to any subject. The reality is that piracy is not theft, there is no middle ground.

I see it as theft because the people taking this stuff may have bought it if a pirated version was not availible. Doing this takes away from company revenue and causes a worse gaming industry.

If someone gives your product a bad review and people who may have bought it don't buy it doesn't that take away company revenue? If a competitor releases a better product and people buy that instead doesn't that take away company revenue? If someone buys your product but then sells it to someone else and the company doesn't make a dime is that also theft?

If your problem with piracy is that it takes away company revenue do you also have the same emotional response to these other actions that deprive a company of revenue? If your answer is yes then you are irrational, if your answer is no you are hypocritical, so which is it?

 

[Buchichu]

I'd just like to say I find most of the hate towards pirates seems to really reek of jealousy. I'm not sure of what though - maybe the whole, 'I'm paying for this and you get it for free, no fair.' As opposed to 'poor Nintendo, they work so hard and get ripped off' - something tells me folks are feeling more sorry for themselves than Nintendo. The fact remains that, just like in the music and movie industry, this is a reality the gaming world will just have to find a way to work with. These little cart-blocking "updates" do nothing more than inconvenience pirates for abut a week until a firmware update to their flashcart solves the problem. It takes Nintendo a year to come up with a pirate-block which they will in turn fix immediately. When will they realize they're going about it the wrong way?

 

[Royas]

If it helps stop piracy, i'm all for it. Though I would have prefered the update to make those flash cards explode, but ahh well I suppose this is more humane.

I do wonder though, how many people actually use the DSI or handhelds in general online, I don't know any personally.

At the same time, I do wonder how many people actually use flash carts to pirate games. I don't know of any personally.

Nintendo is pulling these piracy numbers out of their collective asses. I believe a figure of 90% of DS owners in the US were using pirated software was quoted previously. It doesn't take a genius to realize that this is a ridiculously inflated figure. Even the BSA is putting the overall US piracy rate at 25% or so, and that's including the many companies who just fail to keep up their renewable licenses (I don't count that as piracy). It's the same game every publisher and developer plays when complaining about piracy. Since the real rates aren't enough to cause outrage, they inflate them using bogus statistics until they are.

 

[Royas]

If you read the fucking post you would see that I have a personel stake with piracy. I see it as theft because the people taking this stuff may have bought it if a pirated version was not availible. Doing this takes away from company revenue and causes a worse gaming industry.

You can see it as theft all you want. You're wrong, but feel free to see it that way. This part of the debate isn't a debate, it's a matter of fact and law. Copyright infringement is not theft, period. It's a different legal area altogether, it's investigated differently and the courts treat it differently. It's not even criminal law in the US in most cases, it falls under the civil law area. Just call it what it is, doesn't cost you anything to be right.

 

[ANImaniac89]

I know like 5 people that went out and bought and re-bought DS's and DSi's after they got their hands on some flash carts and they will all be pissed now.
the strange thing is wile 4 of them use them for straight up Piracy, 1 actual goes out and by legit new copies of the games in store and only uses the cart for saving space and the ease of not having to carry around a ton of game cards. One might view that fact the ease of getting and using flash carts may have factored into the Nintendo DS being the 2nd highest selling system of all time (I along with my brother have owned a combined 7 DS units of varying makes and models and only two of which have been bought used, the other 5 where new and full priced)
now I'm not saying that flash carts are not harming the industry they are and you are retarded if you disagree and I can say this as a FORMER Flash Cart user. Yes in the past I did own a flash card and the ratio of backed up vs pirated games was about 40/60 in favor of the pirated. but now I see the truth and the pirating of games is wrong. Part of this realization came when I decided I want to get into the video game industry as a career.


P.S. I am making amends by buying new copies of games I pirated in the past and by not using any flash carts anymore.

 

[FaceFaceFace]

Also, let us not forget that most pirates will pay for what they have "stolen" assuming it was satisfactory. There were over a million downloads of Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, did that stop it from selling millions of copies? No it didn't because people wanted it. Bottom line, in the entertainment industry I can only see piracy as an upside, it will help weed out the crap products and make way for the ones that are good.

Hardly. Where are your statistics for "most pirates" doing that? I will concede that maybe that's what you do, and maybe that's what every pirate you know does, but there are millions of pirates, and whenever there are that many people they are quantifiable by general economic ideas, i.e. self-interest. They are NOT going to pay for something they already have for free.

If Pokemon was supposed to be your evidence, then I have a simple explanation. There are billions of people in the world. Millions of pirates pirated Pokemon and would never pay for a Pokemon game, not because it's bad, but because they think of it as a childish diversion and it is thus worth 0$ to them. Millions more were bought by children who don't yet know what piracy is, or gamers who don't believe in piracy but do believe in catching them all.

 

[Shadeovblack]

Don't they know Resistance is Futile?

 

[Numachuka]

Yes, because we can't possibly have a price-drop on the most successful handheld console of all time, which continues to rake in money despite the same design being re-released 3 times with no significant changes to the quality of the console itself and very few decent exclusives being released at all. I've also noticed that a huge majority of homebrew users resort to hacking their Wii because it's so utterly boring and terrible they need to find some way of making it useful, and it provides a small incentive for their nintendo consoles to still exist.

You. Stop with the douchebaggery.

OT:

Well, you'd only have the download the update if you went online with it right?

And the DS' online really only used to play 3 games.

Pokemon, Metroid Prime Hunters, and Mariokart.

I do love me a good match of Hunters, though.

So, this really doesn't matter at all.

we need more mods like you.

OT:I dont have a ds. but I want one. in piracy matters, pirates are thieves and should be punished. no questions.

I'll inform the 12 year olds that you want them in jail.

OT: yeah, this will take about, I'd say another day to crack, it's pointless to lock the door when the thief has a lock picking kit, and knows how to use it.

punished I said. not nessacarily jailed.

and how would you punish a 12 year old whose parents thought it was better to spend 30 dollars on something that can get new games without paying, or paying 30 dollars every time their kids want the new pokemon? Surely you wouldn't insist that these 40 year old people who don't even know how to use the internet properly should pay millions of dollars for a few "stolen" games? The whole piracy thing is always blown way the fuck out of proportion and if you jailed or financially bankrupted every person whose ever downloaded a song then I'm quite sure you would remove a few billion people from the potential earnings. Companies are stupid like that.

I would love to toss that kid and his parents on the street, hell thats my dream job, and no im not trolling that is really my dream job. I want to be a copyright lawyer and target software thieves and make as many of them homeless as possible

Gee... you're a bit of a douche aren't you.

 

[midpipps]

OT:Good for nintendo granted I know it will not change much in the actual grand scheme of things. Since this will be fixed then nintendo will release another patch then rinse and repeat.

[piracy rant]
I really wish people who pirate or "File Share" could actually see it from the other side not the side that of I get free stuff. I wish they would spend thousands to millions of dollars on a product just to have it thrown on the internet for anyone to download for free.

I love the people who are like we are sticking it to the main companies developers get paid either way. That has to be one of the worst arguments ever considering if the company does not see enough of a profit margin from a game those developers will not have a job there for very long. Any way you look at it the only person benefits from pirating software is the pirate.

I know the arguments coming well a person that pirated the game would never have spent money on the game in the first place. While this may be true for a majority of the pirates even if say 5% of 100,000 people who downloaded the game would have actually bought it if it was not so easy to download. That is 5000 more copies of the game sold which can be significant in some game releases. Also on that note if the person would never have bought the game then why does said person think they should get to play the game for free. Why can they not just pass it by as a game that they will just not play at this point in time and move onto one that they will pay for.

As for the argument "I play it to see if it is something I would buy". There is this wonderful things called demos, trials, and rentals. If you cannot get the game through any of these mediums then send the company emails let them know you would like a demo if enough people do this they will more then likely put one out. If not then do not buy the game until there is a demo and let the company know that. There are all kinds of channels to get into contact with most companies now a days.

Those of us who do talk with our wallets along with emails etc are basically getting screwed by the pirates. If we do not buy a game because it is crap or something along those lines it does not matter how many of us do not buy it or how many of us send emails. They will look at what they can gather from the piracy numbers and say hmm that must be why the game did not sell well. We should work on tougher DRM instead of actually making the game better.

As for the people saying that all pirates on the escapist should be banned I would say that is actually the opposite of what should happen. Hopefully by being on here and having thoughtful discussions on the subject some may see the light and change their ways. It is not highly likely but it is better then them being on a site where everyone thinks it is ok where they have no one to tell them it is wrong and actual discuss the particulars.
[/piracy rant]

 

[zidine100]

50% loss of sales "due to piracy" (id like to see absolute proof that this is indeed piracy not anything to do with people not buying as many games) (note quote marks for sarcasum)....

and bleh my arse that is true that sounds way to clean of a number to be true. if it was oh i dont know 42.52% or even something as simple as 43% id be more inclined to believe it, this is more allong the lines of hmm whats a good number between 0 - 100 that will scare people but not discourage people away from the console due to increadable piracy rates oh i know 50%.

in other words i call bs, on the piracy rate.

Yes, because we can't possibly have a price-drop on the most successful handheld console of all time, which continues to rake in money despite the same design being re-released 3 times with no significant changes to the quality of the console itself and very few decent exclusives being released at all. I've also noticed that a huge majority of homebrew users resort to hacking their Wii because it's so utterly boring and terrible they need to find some way of making it useful, and it provides a small incentive for their nintendo consoles to still exist.

You. Stop with the douchebaggery.

OT:

Well, you'd only have the download the update if you went online with it right?

And the DS' online really only used to play 3 games.

Pokemon, Metroid Prime Hunters, and Mariokart.

I do love me a good match of Hunters, though.

So, this really doesn't matter at all.

we need more mods like you.

OT:I dont have a ds. but I want one. in piracy matters, pirates are thieves and should be punished. no questions.

I'll inform the 12 year olds that you want them in jail.

OT: yeah, this will take about, I'd say another day to crack, it's pointless to lock the door when the thief has a lock picking kit, and knows how to use it.

punished I said. not nessacarily jailed.

and how would you punish a 12 year old whose parents thought it was better to spend 30 dollars on something that can get new games without paying, or paying 30 dollars every time their kids want the new pokemon? Surely you wouldn't insist that these 40 year old people who don't even know how to use the internet properly should pay millions of dollars for a few "stolen" games? The whole piracy thing is always blown way the fuck out of proportion and if you jailed or financially bankrupted every person whose ever downloaded a song then I'm quite sure you would remove a few billion people from the potential earnings. Companies are stupid like that.

I would love to toss that kid and his parents on the street, hell thats my dream job, and no im not trolling that is really my dream job. I want to be a copyright lawyer and target software thieves and make as many of them homeless as possible

Gee... you're a bit of a douche aren't you.

No im an upstanding citizen who knows what right and whats wrong unlike people who value stealing other peoples work because they just don't feel like paying for it.

you ever watched a song on youtube.... YOURE BREAKING THE LAW.

you ever recorded a tv show and watched it twice YOURE BREAKING THE LAW.

you ever looked at a copywrighted image on the internet YOUR BREAKING THE LAW.

(sure the chances of you getting sued for it is virtually zero, but hey..... YOUR TECHNICALLY BREAKING THE LAW)

gezz i hate that most anti pirates are hypocrytes. (im not saying you are, the likelyhood though is that you have done one of said three things, ergo stealing someone elses work just because they didnt feel like paying for it.)

note this is more allong the lines of how copywright law at present time is flawed (slightly offtopic i know) not directed or meant to have anything to do with you, i just thought id addopt a more sarcastic post style and use you as a example. (if i offend you in anyway im sorry) (i dont think sarcastic is the right word, but..... i couldnt think of a better one.)

i know i have a very limited knowledge of copywright law.... but that is what i was taught a few years back. If its bs, id like to know.

 

[zidine100]

also i have to say, the r4 chip is not just about piracy its homebrew aswell, therefore allowing me to use the argument that pc hard drives should be banned as they enable piracy on computers.

before you say that homebrew is worthless and all people want to do is pirate games look at emulation on the ds.. i mean for crying out loud theres a wonderswan emulator and a sega gennis emulator made for it and many others. (i dont know about the quality of emulators as i dont have a r4 chip or a alternative btw im just saying the possibilitys there, and im sure some of it works well.)

and before anyone comes out and says it EMULATION IS LEGAL, im not in the mood to explain it again so take my word or look it up yourself.

you know what skrew it i will explain with a helpfull post from someone else

First of all, you can download any emulator rightly. The emulator is code to mimic the console is is attempting to emulate, and the emulator itself does not infringe on copyrighted things in copyrighted ways, so they themselves are legal. What is illegal about it is obtaining the copyrighted BIOS without owning the system and/or dumping your own BIOS from it (for emulators that need BIOS, not all do). There are Grey areas here where companies have tried legal actions (such as if the emulator may impact sales or cause them losses or any reason they can try just because they can), but for the most part, an emulator itself is legal in almost all situations.

Secondly, downloading a game you do not own is illegal. Downloading one you do own is Grey area, but you're technically supposed to rip your own copy (and with the newest emulators using discs, there's often no reason not to since a computer can read them without any exotic hardware, with cartridges, I wager many people download them, but you're still supposed to own them). It is pirating because you are illegally obtaining something you don't own/didn't pay for. Can you walk into Wal-Mart or wherever and take games for free because you own the system? No. It's no different here just because it's digital. It's not the physical loss that the law cares about (the physical disc itself and it's case/manual is worth, what, change or a buck or two?). Physically, it's a disc and no more. It's the digital data on the disc that matters and is the loss they are concerned about. Downloading it digitally is the same law breaking. It's not right just because they don't lose anything physical.

but then again i can see nintendos point

also nintendo despise emulation, they will always claim its illegal.

 

[zidine100]

Yes, because we can't possibly have a price-drop on the most successful handheld console of all time, which continues to rake in money despite the same design being re-released 3 times with no significant changes to the quality of the console itself and very few decent exclusives being released at all. I've also noticed that a huge majority of homebrew users resort to hacking their Wii because it's so utterly boring and terrible they need to find some way of making it useful, and it provides a small incentive for their nintendo consoles to still exist.

You. Stop with the douchebaggery.

OT:

Well, you'd only have the download the update if you went online with it right?

And the DS' online really only used to play 3 games.

Pokemon, Metroid Prime Hunters, and Mariokart.

I do love me a good match of Hunters, though.

So, this really doesn't matter at all.

we need more mods like you.

OT:I dont have a ds. but I want one. in piracy matters, pirates are thieves and should be punished. no questions.

I'll inform the 12 year olds that you want them in jail.

OT: yeah, this will take about, I'd say another day to crack, it's pointless to lock the door when the thief has a lock picking kit, and knows how to use it.

punished I said. not nessacarily jailed.

and how would you punish a 12 year old whose parents thought it was better to spend 30 dollars on something that can get new games without paying, or paying 30 dollars every time their kids want the new pokemon? Surely you wouldn't insist that these 40 year old people who don't even know how to use the internet properly should pay millions of dollars for a few "stolen" games? The whole piracy thing is always blown way the fuck out of proportion and if you jailed or financially bankrupted every person whose ever downloaded a song then I'm quite sure you would remove a few billion people from the potential earnings. Companies are stupid like that.

I would love to toss that kid and his parents on the street, hell thats my dream job, and no im not trolling that is really my dream job. I want to be a copyright lawyer and target software thieves and make as many of them homeless as possible

Gee... you're a bit of a douche aren't you.

No im an upstanding citizen who knows what right and whats wrong unlike people who value stealing other peoples work because they just don't feel like paying for it.

You would soon lose your job as the market suddenly realizes that by taking the pathetic amount of money most pirates have (as most pirates are poor college students, or foreigners) does not, in fact, compensate for the puffed up fictional losses they pulled out of their ass, and now there is one less person who will ever buy anything from anyone because they are either in jail, too poor to buy food or (if it were me) dead via suicide, because they were poor before and they are even more poor now, and there is no hope of ever climbing out of the abyss known as multi million dollar debt.

Thats where you know little about economy, one person or a few hundred who woudlnt buy the product anyways has no impact on the bottom line if they kill themselves, in fact i would support them killing themselves, they are waste of human life to start with.

ughhh i do hope you are trolling with that part,

if not i have to ask, what right do you have to decide wheather or not someone dies or lives, or if someones life is a waste and should just die . RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

edit: bah you know what i appologise for that, its just your oppinion, and i didnt mean to rage or try to force mine on you.

 

[zidine100]

Yes, because we can't possibly have a price-drop on the most successful handheld console of all time, which continues to rake in money despite the same design being re-released 3 times with no significant changes to the quality of the console itself and very few decent exclusives being released at all. I've also noticed that a huge majority of homebrew users resort to hacking their Wii because it's so utterly boring and terrible they need to find some way of making it useful, and it provides a small incentive for their nintendo consoles to still exist.

You. Stop with the douchebaggery.

OT:

Well, you'd only have the download the update if you went online with it right?

And the DS' online really only used to play 3 games.

Pokemon, Metroid Prime Hunters, and Mariokart.

I do love me a good match of Hunters, though.

So, this really doesn't matter at all.

we need more mods like you.

OT:I dont have a ds. but I want one. in piracy matters, pirates are thieves and should be punished. no questions.

I'll inform the 12 year olds that you want them in jail.

OT: yeah, this will take about, I'd say another day to crack, it's pointless to lock the door when the thief has a lock picking kit, and knows how to use it.

punished I said. not nessacarily jailed.

and how would you punish a 12 year old whose parents thought it was better to spend 30 dollars on something that can get new games without paying, or paying 30 dollars every time their kids want the new pokemon? Surely you wouldn't insist that these 40 year old people who don't even know how to use the internet properly should pay millions of dollars for a few "stolen" games? The whole piracy thing is always blown way the fuck out of proportion and if you jailed or financially bankrupted every person whose ever downloaded a song then I'm quite sure you would remove a few billion people from the potential earnings. Companies are stupid like that.

I would love to toss that kid and his parents on the street, hell thats my dream job, and no im not trolling that is really my dream job. I want to be a copyright lawyer and target software thieves and make as many of them homeless as possible

Gee... you're a bit of a douche aren't you.

No im an upstanding citizen who knows what right and whats wrong unlike people who value stealing other peoples work because they just don't feel like paying for it.

You would soon lose your job as the market suddenly realizes that by taking the pathetic amount of money most pirates have (as most pirates are poor college students, or foreigners) does not, in fact, compensate for the puffed up fictional losses they pulled out of their ass, and now there is one less person who will ever buy anything from anyone because they are either in jail, too poor to buy food or (if it were me) dead via suicide, because they were poor before and they are even more poor now, and there is no hope of ever climbing out of the abyss known as multi million dollar debt.

Thats where you know little about economy, one person or a few hundred who woudlnt buy the product anyways has no impact on the bottom line if they kill themselves, in fact i would support them killing themselves, they are waste of human life to start with.

ughhh i do hope you are trolling with that part,

if not i have to ask, what right do you have to decide wheather or not someone dies or lives, or if someones life is a waste and should just die . RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

edit: bah you know what i appologise for that, its just your oppinion, and i didnt mean to rage.

im not trolling, and i never said they should die, I simply said if they committed suicide I would see no lose in it happening. Im not advocating pirates get the death sentence, just get sued for alot of money is all.

ahh sorry i misunderstood your post and i can see your possition. Ill admit it i have a tendency to jump to conclusions.

but think the sentence/fine is alot exagerated, but thats just my oppinion, sure i understand charging the realease groups a hell of alot, but come on some of the charges to normal people whove just downloaded a few songs are increadably excessive. but then again thats just my oppinion so take that with a grain of salt.

i know the law system here preffers detterance punishments than fair punishments here (im sorry i forgot the word here, this isnt ment to be a argument against the law system here just lack of a better word) (and well im sure it will detter people), so its understandable.

 

[-Samurai-]

I would love to toss that kid and his parents on the street, hell thats my dream job, and no im not trolling that is really my dream job. I want to be a copyright lawyer and target software thieves and make as many of them homeless as possible

No im an upstanding citizen who knows what right and whats wrong unlike people who value stealing other peoples work because they just don't feel like paying for it.

Right. Because ruining a persons future and life over a bit of virtual data isn't as morally wrong as "piracy". Valuing data over human life is just a tad worse than downloading an illegal copy of a song or movie or game. Your priorities are wrong, methinks.

Besides, you'd be a PR disaster and you alone would be responsible for the downfall of that company. The White Knight of anti-"piracy" would single-handedly destroy the thing he set out to protect, and what a glorious day it would be. No-one would buy from such a money hungry company that destroys human lives in the name of data protection. They'd(the company) die within a few years.