Nintendo Controllers Face U.S. Ban

[Zukhramm]

How can you tell a lawyer is lying... ?

His mouth is moving?


Patents, really seem to do nothing but hindering things.

 

[Skrapt]

How can you tell a lawyer is lying... ?

His mouth is moving?


Patents, really seem to do nothing but hindering things.

they're very useful.....

When outside of US territorial borders.....

 

[hbomb]

I hate it when natural development is stopped by lawsuits. It's like Microsoft claiming Apple ripped them off by using 64-bit now. It makes no sense her because two analog sticks is the next natural stpe, right? How can you patent that? Slugs can't patent the next level of human evolution, can they?

 

[fix-the-spade]

1. Nintendo reveals first controller with an analogue stick for the N64. It's primitive by today's standards but it is successful and works well

The N64 stick is actually very different to the ones in other controllers. It's a little work of engineering art with gears from the stick driving the sensors. In terms of accuracy it's ahead of the sticks used today, but more expensive and ultimately less reliable (the gears wear out).

America has the most bizarre Patent Laws on the planet. It's the only country I know of where you can patent something that EVERYONE already makes and get away with it...

 

[Necrohydra]

As far as I've gathered after a quick google search, Anascape design sensors. It doesn't suprise me that something like this has come to light. The amount of licensing that goes into components of pretty much any electronic device are ridiculous, and some of it is a very weird grey area.

Think about it, how many parts in your average iPod do you think are made by Apple?

It's not so much the components that get patented, but the processes and techniques. And that's where the grey areas come in. The more vaguely you can describe a process and get a patent for it, the easier it is to sue other people for infringement/demand royalties. Got a patent for infra-red movement detection? Sue every computer mouse manufacturer that uses infrared mice (or demand royalties). It's easy as that (says the non-lawyer).

@Darkong - oh, I suspected as much as well. It just doesn't make sense that a company could do nothing with a patent/technology for so long and still sue people for it. Seriously - proof of design/incorporation into current product should be included in patent law. It's ridiculous that a company can just come up with an idea, then sit on it and do nothing for however many years and sue anyone that has something remotely like it.

 

[L.B. Jeffries]

Ugh, one of these threads.

This is the patent in question, issued June 14, 2005. For those bitching about them not suing Nintendo when the Gamecube came out, the patenting process was initiated in November of 2000. It takes a long time to verify a patent. They could not sue until the patent was verified.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=OLIVAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=anascape#PPA1,M1

The difference, technologically, between this controller and the ones that existed before it is that it used a plate method on the inside of the controller to detect your input while still being able to handle vibrations that don't get confused as input. A lot of the schematics involve keyboards, flight joysticks, and other types of controllers. That's as best as I can understand the document, I'm not an engineer and I don't know much about the tech beforehand.

Whether or not they're taking advantage of the system, if everyone is using a technology they patented in their controllers then it at least raises the question of who is stealing whose ideas.

 

[Necrohydra]

Whether or not they're taking advantage of the system, if everyone is using a technology they patented in their controllers then it at least raises the question of who is stealing whose ideas.

How do you judge which person is "stealing" and who's being "stolen" from? What if both companys designed this separately? What if Nintendo filed patents in America, but Anascape's came out first? What if Anascape filed an extermely primitive design for patent, then brushed it up and updated it as time went by, revising the patent?

..I really don't know enough of patent law practices to make a knowledgeable call on this. But, I know enough to see the current system allows for "think tanks" companies to think up ideas, then collect licensing/suing for other companies remotely imitating their designs, just as much as they allow for the honest design submissions.

 

[L.B. Jeffries]

I really don't know enough of patent law practices to make a knowledgeable call on this. But, I know enough to see the current system allows for "think tanks" companies to think up ideas, then collect licensing/suing for other companies remotely imitating their designs, just as much as they allow for the honest design submissions.

Well, they sure as hell didn't get into a lawsuit because one of them called their mom a rude name. I'm sure Nintendo has a good argument against all this or they wouldn't be appealing.

I dunno man, I'm not going to argue something I know nothing about beyond just dispelling the basic myths floating around. I don't know what to make of patent law. The s*** they pull here is nothing compared to what goes on in software patenting. Reading about how someone wants to patent a 2-D block puzzle is a good way to lose your faith in humanity.

But take the guy who invented the PS3 transistor. The main reason those things dropped in cost so dramatically was some tech guy had invented a transistor that worked perfectly with the PS3. It was way, way cheaper to make with his new model and much more efficient at getting the PS3 to cool down. It would be pretty dick if Sony just took his ideas and never cut him in on the action, despite the fact that he basically made a product and then waited for a game console to need it. Instead, Sony cut him a licensing deal and now he's laughing his ass off someplace beautiful.

But yeah, there's a lot bulls***. I just don't really know if these guys are guilty of it yet. The Federal Courts, Microsoft, and Sony don't seem to think so.

 

[Skrapt]

Well, they sure as hell didn't get into a lawsuit because one of them called their mom a rude name. I'm sure Nintendo has a good argument against all this or they wouldn't be appealing.

I dunno man, I'm not going to argue something I know nothing about beyond just dispelling the basic myths floating around. I don't know what to make of patent law. The s*** they pull here is nothing compared to what goes on in software patenting. Reading about how someone wants to patent a 2-D block puzzle is a good way to lose your faith in humanity.

But take the guy who invented the PS3 transistor. The main reason those things dropped in cost so dramatically was some tech guy had invented a transistor that worked perfectly with the PS3. It was way, way cheaper to make with his new model and much more efficient at getting the PS3 to cool down. It would be pretty dick if Sony just took his ideas and never cut him in on the action, despite the fact that he basically made a product and then waited for a game console to need it. Instead, Sony cut him a licensing deal and now he's laughing his ass off someplace beautiful.

But yeah, there's a lot bulls***. I just don't really know if these guys are guilty of it yet. The Federal Courts, Microsoft, and Sony don't seem to think so.

Good points, however Microsoft and Sony never really had a case, however Nintendo is probably arguing that they had these joysticks being developed long before Anascape filed for the patent. However, one of Anascapes reasons for this lawsuit is it's intent to enter the market, which bemused me a little as it *almost* prooves they are a patent troll because:

Why would you be build a Gamecube controller to enter the market now? Barely anyone uses a gamecube and even if it's for the Wii market it would be such a pitifully small market that the lawsuit simply wouldn't have been worth it.

And why would you want to enter a gamecube controller into the market where the Gamecube has been taken off sale by your lawsuits?

It basically boils down to Anascape probably not planning or ever intending to enter the market, as it would be a complete waste of time. However they're probably already rolling in it from royalties from microsoft and sony, so what's a couple of million to them?

 

[Sylocat]

But take the guy who invented the PS3 transistor. The main reason those things dropped in cost so dramatically was some tech guy had invented a transistor that worked perfectly with the PS3. It was way, way cheaper to make with his new model and much more efficient at getting the PS3 to cool down. It would be pretty dick if Sony just took his ideas and never cut him in on the action, despite the fact that he basically made a product and then waited for a game console to need it. Instead, Sony cut him a licensing deal and now he's laughing his ass off someplace beautiful.

The problem with patent law as it stands is, you don't have to MAKE a product in order to sue someone for stealing your idea. You can just get a patent for it, sit on your ass for years, and when someone finally puts out a similar thing on the market and makes money off it, you can sue them for copying a product you never actually made.

 

[Necrohydra]

But take the guy who invented the PS3 transistor. The main reason those things dropped in cost so dramatically was some tech guy had invented a transistor that worked perfectly with the PS3. It was way, way cheaper to make with his new model and much more efficient at getting the PS3 to cool down. It would be pretty dick if Sony just took his ideas and never cut him in on the action, despite the fact that he basically made a product and then waited for a game console to need it. Instead, Sony cut him a licensing deal and now he's laughing his ass off someplace beautiful.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe patents and licensing are the work of money-hungry capitalists and lawyers all the time. Credit (and a share of the profits) should be given where it's due. Heck, instead of spending the time reasearching it yourself, it's often cheaper to just buy a method developed something else. There's always something to be said for time saved.

But, I have my doubts when the products were developed in the same time period. You'd think the big 3 companies would have done their homework on what else was out there...

 

[SilentHunter7]

For example (slightly off topic) a robber brok into a familys house,
and their dog attack him causing him to be cuaght. He tuns
around and sues h family for his injuries from the dog, and the bail money
he had to pay to get out of holding.

That's why if anyone breaks into your house, you shoot to kill. He cant testify against you if he's dead.

 

[fix-the-spade]

This is the patent in question, issued June 14, 2005. For those bitching about them not suing Nintendo when the Gamecube came out, the patenting process was initiated in November of 2000. It takes a long time to verify a patent. They could not sue until the patent was verified.

Still begs the question, why Nintendo? It also begs the question how in the Hell did that patent get verified.
PS1 analogue controllers (and Dreamcast for that matter) work roughly the same way as the doohicky in the patent. But both are from before the year 2000, so how did the US patent office conclude the idea was unique?
I suppose they would argue that Sega and Sony are Japanese rather than American companies. So US patent doesn't apply to them. But that's pushing things when the products were freely available in the US for 2-3 years beforehand.


#Dumb question, was 2000 the year when the initial patent was filed? Or was it an amendment to an existing one?

 

[Darkong]

Still begs the question, why Nintendo? It also begs the question how in the Hell did that patent get verified.
PS1 analogue controllers (and Dreamcast for that matter) work roughly the same way as the doohicky in the patent. But both are from before the year 2000, so how did the US patent office conclude the idea was unique?
I suppose they would argue that Sega and Sony are Japanese rather than American companies. So US patent doesn't apply to them. But that's pushing things when the products were freely available in the US for 2-3 years beforehand.

Its because something doesn't have to be new or unique to be patented, it might be something that already exists but the company that gets their patent filed first gets the rights to it in that particular territory, I would guess that's whats happened here.

And it doesn't matter what country the parent company is from, remember Nintendo is a Japanese company with an American division (same as Sony and Sega).

I think the year 2000 was the year the patent was originally filed, so their argument must be that its before the Gamecube was released so that was when their patent holding was infringed.

 

[the monopoly guy]

too little too late, with the Wii doing as well as it is I'm surprised Nintendo cares.

 

[Flour]

too little too late, with the Wii doing as well as it is I'm surprised Nintendo cares.

They don't want to lose any money. I think nintendo is going to sue anascape until anascape has no money left and has to give up, then nintendo will either stop or sue anascape and force it to pay nintendo all the costs back that they have made in court.(basically saying to the world "we have money, F- you all, try to mess with us and we'll take you down even if we did steal your idea")

What I've read from the patent, is that it's for an analog controller with vibration.
It doesn't matter if nintendo was one hour late filing it's own patent or one year. They didn't have the patent and are technically stealing anascape's idea.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Its because something doesn't have to be new or unique to be patented, it might be something that already exists but the company that gets their patent filed first gets the rights to it in that particular territory, I would guess that's whats happened here.

There in lies the stupidity of the US patent system.
Here in jolly old England you can't patent something if someone else has already made it, whether it's been patented or not, you can't patent something already in the public eye.
Which seems like a basic requirement for a patent to me.

Otherwise you may as well patent Legs.

 

[Neimo]

I think nintendo is going to sue anascape until anascape has no money left and has to give up, then nintendo will either stop or sue anascape and force it to pay nintendo all the costs back that they have made in court.(basically saying to the world "we have money, F- you all, try to mess with us and we'll take you down even if we did steal your idea")

I think you're wrong, given Anascape is getting money from Sony and MS and had strong cases against them.

 

[Myself0101]

Looks like Nintendo will have to follow what MS did and settle up with Anascape.

To be honest this whole thing sounds to me like Anascape made a patent and sat on it until a situation like this occured where they could sue a couple of bigger companies for money and then get licenses afterwards to sue the tech.

yeh i have to say you may be right on the money there...still not a bad idea

 

[LewsTherin]

Wewt for living in Canada! ^^

Seriously, however, this is a load of crap. Why bring this up NOW, if you already had a patent in place before the GAMECUBE was in production.

Magic Eight Ball says: Sorry, try again later