Nintendo Doesn't Want to Shut Down Fan Projects
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
You have to admit the timing for shutting down the zelda fan movie was ridiculously obnoxious. They could have shut it down at any point after they found out, which I'm sure was quite early into the production of the film.AceDiamond said:
And hypocrisy is hypocrisy regardless whether you personally feel it is a good idea in business. Nintendo is the king of making up PR crap.
I'm not saying Ninty don't have rights, but they should be open and forthcoming about their IP protection policies. Fake PR announcements like this will just get fans all keyed up to make more fan productions which Ninty will then shut down and sue the fans for.
IMO no IP owner should have the ability to sue or control a fan project beyond telling them they can not make or rise money via that project, because at the end of the day the IP owner owns the resale rights of the fan project so they can take it tweak it and resale it. Thats how copy right should work its not downloading /distribution or making a fan project that hampers potential profit but actually taking money out of the market by taking in donations and ad revenue. Hell if the IP owner was smart they would say you can do donations but we take 20% of all donations. Sadly the industry is to inept to do something that might just save them in the long run....
That would fall under diminishing the value of the property, as there's a possibility of it competing with actual Nintendo products.Denmarkian said:
Yeah, that was harsh, but do you have any idea how many fan projects are started up based on Nintendo properties? 99% of them never make it out of pre-alpha, due to the team splitting up. Nintendo's not psychic, and it can't tell which ones are going to go the distance, and you can't ask them to monitor the entire internet looking for fan projects.danpascooch said:
Yeah, it's always shitty to have worked that hard for nothing, but it's not like Miyamoto is sitting at Nintendo HQ and giggling to himself that he ruined 3 years of people's hard work.
Legal precedent. They would lose all the rights to the property if they didn't defend it.tellmeimaninja said:
In all likelyhood, they only discovered it due to the publicity hype just before launch. That's when their legal teams find out about it, and that's when the cease-and-desists are sent out.Samurai Goomba said:
Actually, that's how most companies do it. See, little fan projects like that tend to get started very frequently (many of which I'm sure no one hears about). More often than not, the creators of the project will get bored or hit some other obstacle, and it'll fizzle-out on its own. Thus, it isn't really worth a companies time and effort to take legal action against a project unless it's far-enough along that it's more likely to see completion. This is why projects being shut-down due to legal threats are always cases of "it was almost done".danpascooch said:
It's called profits. You know... the reason Nintendo is in business in the first place. When you start a project that can cut into them (like, for example, an MMO-version of a game being offered for free that can take away sales of their trademarked game), then they really don't have a lot of choice but to shut down the project, even if it's one they wish they could have left alone. It's not to say that the Pokemon MMO would have run Nintendo out of business, but taking money out of their pockets is taking money out of their pockets. I didn't go bankrupt when someone stole my GBA years ago, but that doesn't mean the thief was any-more in the right for doing it.Onyx Oblivion said:
Being free of charge means jack shit to anything about them making money off making it. Movie Makers CHARGE to get their movies into the theaters or did you not know that tid-bit of information. Also just because your open about a project doesn't mean that they take you seriously.danpascooch said:
I love how everyone on this forum will badmouth a pirate at the drop of a hat, but [sarcasm]HOW DARE THEY STOP PROJECTS THAT ARE BLATANTLY INFRINGING ON COPYRIGHT!!!![/sarcasm]
Anyone else see the hypocrisy here?
Anyone else see the hypocrisy here?
So...it's only being hypocritical if it's bad for business? Makes perfect sense!AceDiamond said:
Well, legally, yeah. My problem with that, though, is that "diminish the quality of the IP" sounds rather vague. Then again, I didn't go to law school, so I don't know what the actual definition is, but...to me, it sounds like free license to sue anyone that even mentions their IP. Good thing that (at least in the US) criticism and satire are protected forms of free speech, so we can still have game reviews that aren't afraid to be honest about just how terrible a game really is.
If they're really serious about protecting their IP, isn't monitoring for fan projects exactly what they should do? Even if they don't think plans for a Pokemon MMO 9000 will come to fruition, if they really have a problem with the possibility of the end product "diminishing the dignity or value" of their property, the least they could do is send the dev's an e-mail saying, "Knock it off." Or maybe just release a press statement explicitly stating what they are and aren't okay with, instead of implying that some fan projects might be okay, so work your ass off for it, then see if you get shut down. From what I've gleaned of the cases mentioned earlier, it could be as simple as "No fan games or movies using our licensed products. Cosplay and non-sexual artwork are A-OK."SilentHunter7 said:
Well, a bunch of the other people who've been supporting Nintendo have said similar things, but yours is the most recent, so I'll respond to you. Frankly, I think just about everyone can agree that legally, Nintendo is in the right. I don't think it's so much the fact that Nintendo is trying to protect its copyright that people are taking offense to; it's the fact that Nintendo does so while saying that they don't want to shut down good faith labors of love. There's a disconnect between Iwata's words and Nintendo's actions. Legally, he's in the clear, but morally, something seems off. On the other hand, though, it could be worse. They could've sued the living shit out of these kids, but they didn't.matrix3509 said:
Nintendo, I really, really want to love you. From the bottom of my heart, I do. I just need an actual sign--in actions, not words--that you want to do right by your fans and not just your investors. Until then, I'll keep giving you money, but I won't be happy about it :<
You know what's worse than being jerks for no good reason (Activision and that fan-made game)?
Being jerks and trying to cover it up.
If this is how you're trying to make yourself look good, Nintendo, it's fairly pathetic. And really hypocritical.
Being jerks and trying to cover it up.
If this is how you're trying to make yourself look good, Nintendo, it's fairly pathetic. And really hypocritical.
Don't. Valve can be quite the jerks, too, especially to fan-made material.subtlefuge said:
That's really kinda bullshit. There are thousands of half finished fan projects involving Nintendo IPs out there. They'd need to have a whole department dedicated to filtering them all out, and then getting legal advice on all of them. Lawyers ain't cheap. Yeah, the timing can be kind of crap when something escapes notice until release, but that's basically inevitable. They just have better things to do with their time and money than sick their lawyers on every half finished bit of fanwank.commasplice said:
Plus, they really don't go after every game or movie. Super Mario Crossover for instance is a recent example of something they're just letting slide. It's simple, and it uses a game that's more than twenty years old. There's a huge difference between that and making an MMORPG out of a game they're still selling.
As for that Zelda movie thing, putting it in a theater automatically grants it an air of authenticity that Nintendo simply can't allow. They actually did allow the movie to be shown on the internet for a while, (and as we all know, anything that's ever on the internet is always on the internet) so it's not like they were being completely unreasonable. They just couldn't let it look like they approved.
I never said they were being unreasonable. My point is just that, if they're actually interested in protecting their IP, yeah, they should have people paid specifically to scour the internet for potential copyright infringement. In fact, they probably do. And they don't necessarily need to hire lawyers every time they see something they don't like. All they need to do is, like I said, send an e-mail that reads, "This is our IP and we're not okay with what you're doing. Cut it out or we'll go get our law guys." It could even be a form letter. Doesn't need to be super fancy or anything. It's really not that complicated and I'm sure they've already got some sort of system implemented. I simply took issue with the fact that you wrote, "you can't ask them to monitor the entire internet looking for fan projects," because that made it sound as though it wasn't Nintendo's responsibility to actively search for people using their IP without their permission.ZephrC said:
And as far as stating what they are and aren't okay with (which is, I assume, why you brought up Super Mario Crossover and "that Zelda movie thing"), they could say that you need to make it crystal clear at the beginning of the movie or the game or whatever that the work you're doing is fan-made. They could also state that you can't use script for any of their games that've been made in the past 15 years. Something along those lines. If they're going to bother saying that they're cool with fan projects, but still want to protect their IP, they should lay down some rules so people know what the score is.
I don't think any of that is unreasonable. I don't think that it's impossible for Nintendo to protect their copyrights and still let fan projects thrive. I just think that, while they're not technically obligated to compromise or cater to the fans, things would turn out better for everyone if they did. And honestly? I think there's an easy way to make everyone happy. How about every once in a while, they hold game development and/or fan movie contests? You got an idea for a Pokemon game? Send it in. Winners get published on their website, or maybe their game/movie/whatever gets included as an unlockable for the next game in the series. Nintendo then makes money off of their own IP without gathering funding or having to pay anybody to do squat. Would it solve all the problems? Certainly not, but it would go a long way towards convincing their customers that they still see their games as more than just money printing machines.
Pretty sure Nintendo really doesn't care either way. Buy our stuff, love them silently, don't copy our stuff.
Their new DRM, and the way they handle fan-made things is ridiculous. Maybe the books/movies/etc that they borrowed ideas from for their games should treat them the same way.
At least Sony's Play/Create/Share is the right idea. Use Sony IPs to create your own things. They also put fanmade things on their blog all the time instead of suing everyone. Like the LBP videos.
Makes you wonder why companies make the decisions that they make, especially when most fan projects are harmless.
Their new DRM, and the way they handle fan-made things is ridiculous. Maybe the books/movies/etc that they borrowed ideas from for their games should treat them the same way.
At least Sony's Play/Create/Share is the right idea. Use Sony IPs to create your own things. They also put fanmade things on their blog all the time instead of suing everyone. Like the LBP videos.
Makes you wonder why companies make the decisions that they make, especially when most fan projects are harmless.
I'm sorry, but an office is not cheap. Leasing space, paying bills, and then you're still talking tens of thousands annually, per employee. I don't think it's fair to expect Nintendo to spend a hundred thousand dollars or more a year to save some people that are infringing their copyrights some work. It's just not cost effective. If it's not big enough news that they've heard about it they likely don't care, so why should they shell out all that money?commasplice said:
I think it might be cool of them to lay out some more specific rules, or maybe give an email address where a group with a fan project can simply ask if they're likely to get their pants sued off, but Nintendo is probably reluctant to do that because it would be hard to lay out reasonable rules that allowed interesting projects to happen while still keeping everything they want thoroughly protected.
Your idea for contests is absolutely good, but it won't cover everything.