Nintendo: Petitions "Don't Affect What We Do"

[Atmos Duality]

And in the end cost them the Wii U cause everyone who bought the Wii got seriously burned by the lack of "real" games, what with all the crap shovelware games that drowned the entire Wii lineup beneath it.

Shovelware exists everywhere, on all systems. Has since the dawn of consoles.
There's been few to no "real games" on the WiiU; and that more than anything has driven demand down; not the Wii. (though your assertion works for "core" gamers; not so much the casuals that made the Wii a successful fad.)

The days where zelda, metroid and mario alone sold a nintendo product are long gone. To bad nintendo doesnt realize it.

I'd be willing to believe that if a gaggle of Mario Zelda and Pokemon didn't save the 3DS.
Compare 2011 3DS sales to present; notice how it starting selling well right after the blitz of THREE sodding Mario games.

It works, and they know it.

 

[Fairy Fatale]

The more salient point here is that online petitions do not accurately gauge the interest in a given topic. Just because a fan wants a thing does not mean that it's a good idea to indulge that wish, financially or otherwise.

Whether fans want to admit it or not, these are companies and to continue being companies, they need to look at their financial bottom line. I have no doubt that they take a look at online interest when making a decision, but it's not a causal factor. There's a big difference between the two.

 

[Covarr]

I think you mean Pal to NTSC (NTFS is file system format, which is kinda unrivaled now as FAT is dead). And if they bothered to program their games correctly (as in not do first grade programmer mistakes by locking game to refresh rate) there would be no costs. In this decade there is absolutely no reason to have region locks other than incompetence.

You're right, I meant NTSC. But yeah, even Nintendo's guilty of this sometimes. The PAL version of Pikmin 2 Wii can't be forced to NTSC like most Wii games. For a long time, the only way to play Pikmin 2 Wii in English was to have a TV that supported 50hz.

P.S. Thanks

 

[BNguyen]

...the millions that they would lose in developing a product, advertising it and finally paying back the developers, artists, graphic designers, etc. ...

Found the problem! Companies shouldn't spend "millions" on a title that only has a potential for 100,000 sales. Matching expenses to demand is the only way to make a profit.

It's disturbing to see the AAA mindset is affecting not only the companies, but also the consumers.

and it's disturbing to think that people want a business be a charity rather than, you know... a business
when you act like an entitled gamer, do you deserve the product when you bug the living crap out of a company by complaining that they aren't making the product you want? No.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Yeah, honestly I can't say I had much hope for that considering how tightly Nintendo holds their exclusives. I guess I'll have to settle for option two: hoping that a Wii U suddenly appears in my home sometime after its release

you say that like Sony or Microsoft are any different with their exclusives

anyway, sounds like normal business to me, given how many times gamers have said 'oh yeah, I'll totally buy that' and then didn't, it's not surprising they give a low priority to petitions.

though the N-haters grasping at any extra reason to hate on Nintendo is amusing though

Yes, but you'll see games crossing over between Ps3, Xbox and PC. Even ones that are initially exclusive titles, while it's not as common. On the other hand you have Nintendo, which is pretty much Exclusives: The Console. Almost every game on the Wii and Wii U has been exclusively on the Wii or Wii U. The only exceptions I can think of are the games that they ported over from the Ps3 and Xbox onto the Wii U right when it came out.

And I'm far from a hater of Nintendo, they've made quite a few great games. Yet, the Wii U and Wii are crap. It would take a lot of great games on the Wii U for me to consider buying the console, and even then it'd be very begrudgingly. I'm not a fan of how consoles are sold by holding exclusives hostage, and Nintendo takes that to 11 with the worst console and the most exclusives

EDIT: Even the 3DS, which I excluded in my previous post, isn't great hardware. I haven't met anyone who ever uses it with the 3D, it's not very technically powerful, and the shape is even inconvenient as the corners dig into your hand with prolonged use (with me at least). All it has is good games. The PS Vita is a far better device, but it has far fewer good games on it. I'm pretty sure most people would get a Vita if all of the games between them were released on both of their consoles

 

[Karadalis]

And in the end cost them the Wii U cause everyone who bought the Wii got seriously burned by the lack of "real" games, what with all the crap shovelware games that drowned the entire Wii lineup beneath it.

Shovelware exists everywhere, on all systems. Has since the dawn of consoles.
There's been few to no "real games" on the WiiU; and that more than anything has driven demand down; not the Wii. (though your assertion works for "core" gamers; not so much the casuals that made the Wii a successful fad.)

The days where zelda, metroid and mario alone sold a nintendo product are long gone. To bad nintendo doesnt realize it.

I'd be willing to believe that if a gaggle of Mario Zelda and Pokemon didn't save the 3DS.
Compare 2011 3DS sales to present; notice how it starting selling well right after the blitz of THREE sodding Mario games.

It works, and they know it.

The Wiis entire lineup consisted of shovelware kept for the odd JRPG and ofcourse nintendos own brands of the ever same old metroid, super mario and zelda games.

Everything else where games not worth the medium they where printed on.

Atleast with other systems the shovelware is somewhat kept in check, but with nintendos consoles its like a never ending onslaught of crap.

And the reason their handhelds keep being successes is a) sonys Vita isnt a real alternative b) it has well established 3rd party support (seriously the DS had some amazing 3rd party games in and outside of japan) and c) they pretty much got the market cornered. Its also aparantly alot cheaper to develope for the 3ds then it is for the vita. Furthermore the ease of use compared to the Vita can also not be underestimated. The developers that where around during the DS time simply imigrated to the 3DS. The 3DS has the vita totaly outmatched, something that cannot be said for the Wii U and its competition.

Also note that most worthwhile 3DS games also come out of japan, the big western publishers and dev studios dont even bother with the handheld market.

However I was talking about brick and mortar kinda consoles, stuff you place in your living room. And in that perspective the Wii U simply has no meaning, the entire market outside of japan will focus around Xbox and playstation PLUS support from asian dev studios.

Take dark souls for example.. its going to come out even on PC.. but not on the Wii U... and the same will be true for many more titles that will be available on ps4 xbox one and PC.. but again not for the Wii U. Or bethesda games... or Bioware games.. or any other big name games.. none of them are planned for the Wii U.

The Wii U is just not relevant in the big scheme of things and its sales numbers reflect that. Even in japan itselfe the Wii U has abysmal sales numbers compared to its competition.. and they only came out last month

The casual gamers that made the Wii such a success went with their iphones and tablets, they dont need nor want a Wii 2.0 they allready have a Wii.

 

[Atmos Duality]

The Wiis entire lineup consisted of shovelware kept for the odd JRPG and ofcourse nintendos own brands of the ever same old metroid, super mario and zelda games.

It's really more Mario Zelda and Pokemon, thanks to Other M killing what momentum Metroid had going for it. That, and if you actually count the number of Metroid titles to date, it's actually quite niche despite being touted as a derivative Nintendo mainstay.

Everything else where games not worth the medium they where printed on.

Atleast with other systems the shovelware is somewhat kept in check, but with nintendos consoles its like a never ending onslaught of crap.

Funny, every time I've entered the checkout aisle at a big brick and mortar chain for the last 6 years, I've seen shitloads of shovelware not just for the Wii, but the DS, PS3 and especially the Xbox 360. Just sitting there, all aisles, right down the lane. Not just in one store, but EVERY store like it (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, Sears and Gamestop prior to 2012)

Sure, the Wii had more Shovelware by proportion because of its abysmal 3rd party support, yet it succeeded anyway by riding the coattails of Nintendo's 1st party offerings and nothing else.

Which was my point in response to the person I quoted. Once Nintendo rolls out a blitz of the usual crap, it'll get going, just like the 3DS.

And the reason their handhelds keep being successes is a) sonys Vita isnt a real alternative b) it has well established 3rd party support (seriously the DS had some amazing 3rd party games in and outside of japan) and c) they pretty much got the market cornered. Its also aparantly alot cheaper to develope for the 3ds then it is for the vita. Furthermore the ease of use compared to the Vita can also not be underestimated. The developers that where around during the DS time simply imigrated to the 3DS.

To be blunt, I think you are GROSSLY EXAGGERATING the presence of quality 3rd party titles on the 3DS.
I'm not being sarcastic or snide either, because I've been searching, CLAWING for a reason to justify my 3DS's existence, and I'm well past giving a single fuck about anything Mario, Zelda or Pokemon. I use it as an MP3 player and little else.

So, outside of Nintendo, There's what? A bunch of ports of games from Konami, Capcom, and Atlus. But more noticeably, very few original works of note from those same companies. And they're the biggest 3rd party supporters of the 3DS.

As for the Vita...it doesn't matter.
I'm talking about why the 3DS succeeds in relation to Nintendo's strategy, not why Sony fails.

(Sony really should just open it up for user development at this point, because as a mobile device it's a very good piece of hardware for mobile gaming. It has the processing power of smartphones with a better GPU, and more importantly, ACTUAL FUCKING CONTROLS)

Also note that most worthwhile 3DS games also come out of japan, the big western publishers and dev studios dont even bother with the handheld market.

Agreed, though that's because western AAA publishers don't see handhelds as their own platform, but as either:

1) Mini-consoles to make some extra cash with AA versions of their franchises.
Alas, smaller productions are going the way of the Dodo with big publishers.

2) A doomed prospect of a platform because it has to compete with Tablets and iPhones.
(A very false dilemma to believe, given that handhelds don't really have to compete with either. Mainly because as gaming devices, tablets and iPhones are crippled by their total reliance on touch controls).

However I was talking about brick and mortar kinda consoles, stuff you place in your living room. And in that perspective the Wii U simply has no meaning, the entire market outside of japan will focus around Xbox and just the playstation PLUS support from asian dev studios.

Fixed that for you. Japan hates the Xbox as a brand; they see it as an intruder.
It has sold like shit compared to the domestic systems since its inception.

Take dark souls for example.. its going to come out even on PC.. but not on the Wii U... and the same will be true for many more titles that will be available on ps4 xbox one and PC.. but again not for the Wii U. Or bethesda games... or Bioware games.. or any other big name games.. none of them are planned for the Wii U.

Well, yeah. Nintendo has all but flipped third parties the bird for nearly a decade now.
The Wii was dirt cheap to develop on, easy to learn because it was the same language as the Gamecube, and had an enormous install base; the only reason AAA even glanced sideways at it because outside of that, it offered AAA nothing.

And with AAA slowly crumbling under the weight of burgeoning production+marketing costs for their regular games, there's no way they would do serious business releasing to a platform that extensively denies them the ability to milk customers for DLC, service fees and microtransactions. Nevermind that the weak WiiU hardware would make ports even more embarrassing than they were from the PS3/360 to the Wii.

The casual gamers that made the Wii such a success went with their iphones and tablets, they dont need nor want a Wii 2.0 they allready have a Wii.

Well, I can actually agree with that to a degree.
I maintain the Wii was a fad and overwhelmingly useless console for core gamers like myself.

 

[Lo Flying Frying Pan]

That was a bang-up way to comment on the company relation to online-petitions. Maybe if the company involved itself in those petitions, with "considerate" disregard, they could salvage the generation. Nintendo, listen to the gamers and give into their calls. Their wallets are ripe and tender, just look out the window. Shhhh, shhhh, shhhh just let it happen.

 

[BNguyen]

That was a bang-up way to comment on the company relation to online-petitions. Maybe if the company involved itself in those petitions, with "considerate" disregard, they could salvage the generation. Nintendo, listen to the gamers and give into their calls. Their wallets are ripe and tender, just look out the window. Shhhh, shhhh, shhhh just let it happen.

so basically they need to kiss the asses of the entitled gamers just to make a handful of sales rather than develop something that a larger portion of the gaming population would want, and in the end, go into the black in developing costs and employee paychecks making something that probably wouldn't sell that good anyways. The thing about these entitled gamers is that they can't agree on what they want from a game. There is no middle ground with them - basically the same as political parties, make one group happy, and another throws a hissy fit.

 

[Lo Flying Frying Pan]

That was a bang-up way to comment on the company relation to online-petitions. Maybe if the company involved itself in those petitions, with "considerate" disregard, they could salvage the generation. Nintendo, listen to the gamers and give into their calls. Their wallets are ripe and tender, just look out the window. Shhhh, shhhh, shhhh just let it happen.

so basically they need to kiss the asses of the entitled gamers just to make a handful of sales rather than develop something that a larger portion of the gaming population would want, and in the end, go into the black in developing costs and employee paychecks making something that probably wouldn't sell that good anyways. The thing about these entitled gamers is that they can't agree on what they want from a game. There is no middle ground with them - basically the same as political parties, make one group happy, and another throws a hissy fit.

Maybe you're right, but I wish that Nintendo would consider the market desire of the niche. Smaller development projects could be launched to satisfy those pools. I'm definitely not saying roll-out the "grand bloated-budget cyclo-tron 9000", but there has to be a way for a company like this to cash in on smaller groups of voracious consumers. Also, starting petitions to plead for sequels isn't really all that as it is a tad goofy. Sometimes the petitions come off a wee bit zealous, but not entitled. I can personally think of a million things I'd petition for long before videogames. But I suppose that asking for something is not the same as demanding it.

 

[BNguyen]

That was a bang-up way to comment on the company relation to online-petitions. Maybe if the company involved itself in those petitions, with "considerate" disregard, they could salvage the generation. Nintendo, listen to the gamers and give into their calls. Their wallets are ripe and tender, just look out the window. Shhhh, shhhh, shhhh just let it happen.

so basically they need to kiss the asses of the entitled gamers just to make a handful of sales rather than develop something that a larger portion of the gaming population would want, and in the end, go into the black in developing costs and employee paychecks making something that probably wouldn't sell that good anyways. The thing about these entitled gamers is that they can't agree on what they want from a game. There is no middle ground with them - basically the same as political parties, make one group happy, and another throws a hissy fit.

Maybe you're right, but I wish that Nintendo would consider the market desire of the niche. Smaller development projects could be launched to satisfy those pools. I'm definitely not saying roll-out the "grand bloated-budget cyclo-tron 9000", but there has to be a way for a company like this to cash in on smaller groups of voracious consumers. Also, starting petitions to plead for sequels isn't really all that as it is a tad goofy. Sometimes the petitions come off a wee bit zealous, but not entitled. I can personally think of a million things I'd petition for long before videogames. But I suppose that asking for something is not the same as demanding it.

really, I think it'd be good for Nintendo to expand - maybe develop smaller versions of their games to be played on tablets or iphones or whatever, but for Nintendo to see adequate turnaround from developing something like that, they'd need to be in control of their own tablet device and not be at the mercy of another company - exactly the entire reason I'm against Nintendo becoming a slave to other developer companies like Sony or Microsoft. Sony and Microsoft don't seem very interested these days in developing colorful, all-encompassing titles, sure there may be a few here and there, but most always seem to be from EA, Ubisoft and etc. which seem only intent on making sequels that really just feel like DLC in terms of difference from one game to the next. Each company seems to follow their own trends - Sony with shooters (for the most part), Microsoft with multimedia and sports games, and Nintendo with pretty much everything else (seeing as how you don't see too many platformers, puzzles, or party games on PSwhatever or Xbox), and these people that say Nintendo should just switch to being a third party developer I don't think see that if they won't buy the games on one console then what makes them think they'll buy it on one they don't even play similar games on. Like, why buy Mario on PSwhatever if you don't play platformers? Why buy Fire Emblem for Xbox if you don't play strategy games? and so on and so forth.

 

[Lo Flying Frying Pan]

That was a bang-up way to comment on the company relation to online-petitions. Maybe if the company involved itself in those petitions, with "considerate" disregard, they could salvage the generation. Nintendo, listen to the gamers and give into their calls. Their wallets are ripe and tender, just look out the window. Shhhh, shhhh, shhhh just let it happen.

so basically they need to kiss the asses of the entitled gamers just to make a handful of sales rather than develop something that a larger portion of the gaming population would want, and in the end, go into the black in developing costs and employee paychecks making something that probably wouldn't sell that good anyways. The thing about these entitled gamers is that they can't agree on what they want from a game. There is no middle ground with them - basically the same as political parties, make one group happy, and another throws a hissy fit.

Maybe you're right, but I wish that Nintendo would consider the market desire of the niche. Smaller development projects could be launched to satisfy those pools. I'm definitely not saying roll-out the "grand bloated-budget cyclo-tron 9000", but there has to be a way for a company like this to cash in on smaller groups of voracious consumers. Also, starting petitions to plead for sequels isn't really all that as it is a tad goofy. Sometimes the petitions come off a wee bit zealous, but not entitled. I can personally think of a million things I'd petition for long before videogames. But I suppose that asking for something is not the same as demanding it.

really, I think it'd be good for Nintendo to expand - maybe develop smaller versions of their games to be played on tablets or iphones or whatever, but for Nintendo to see adequate turnaround from developing something like that, they'd need to be in control of their own tablet device and not be at the mercy of another company - exactly the entire reason I'm against Nintendo becoming a slave to other developer companies like Sony or Microsoft. Sony and Microsoft don't seem very interested these days in developing colorful, all-encompassing titles, sure there may be a few here and there, but most always seem to be from EA, Ubisoft and etc. which seem only intent on making sequels that really just feel like DLC in terms of difference from one game to the next. Each company seems to follow their own trends - Sony with shooters (for the most part), Microsoft with multimedia and sports games, and Nintendo with pretty much everything else (seeing as how you don't see too many platformers, puzzles, or party games on PSwhatever or Xbox), and these people that say Nintendo should just switch to being a third party developer I don't think see that if they won't buy the games on one console then what makes them think they'll buy it on one they don't even play similar games on. Like, why buy Mario on PSwhatever if you don't play platformers? Why buy Fire Emblem for Xbox if you don't play strategy games? and so on and so forth.

I certainly would hope that they'd expand, but they need quick action. It seems like everyone is grinding the axe on the Wii-U and are quick to pounce on pr gaffs. But, expansion begs the question of necessarily what kind and level? They've managed to at times make hardware choices that leave me scratching my head, but ultimately they've shown a brazen degree of venture in their efforts. A matter that has endeared me to no small amount. Aside from the tenuous life-span of their current console, I'm adamantly invested in their handhelds. I still put mileage on my 3DS, but I'm often confounded by a lack of any rigorous gaming experiences with it (excluding any recent Zelda titles cough-cough). A nagging feeling of lacking multiple options of software-content gluing me to the device. They're left to either develop fresh, smash-hit IP's (risky risky risky), or acquire third party development. They've been notoriously bad at brokering the later. However I do sense some companies have maliciously stink-eyed Nintendo for not going with the bland-oatmeal-of-battle-duty and vomited out a generic "game-box-station." This leaves me wondering if Nintendo should just cave to smaller party calls and become a ladle for the aforementioned niche and petition-markets. I'm convinced that expansion into those regions could prove lucrative if they step cautiously and with deliberate acts.

 

[Brian Tams]

That's fine. Petitions (especially the online sort) are highly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

100,000 people want a new Earthbound? So fucking what. 100,000 is tiny, a drop in the bucket of what is expected of game sales today.

 

[Strazdas]

I think you mean Pal to NTSC (NTFS is file system format, which is kinda unrivaled now as FAT is dead). And if they bothered to program their games correctly (as in not do first grade programmer mistakes by locking game to refresh rate) there would be no costs. In this decade there is absolutely no reason to have region locks other than incompetence.

You're right, I meant NTSC. But yeah, even Nintendo's guilty of this sometimes. The PAL version of Pikmin 2 Wii can't be forced to NTSC like most Wii games. For a long time, the only way to play Pikmin 2 Wii in English was to have a TV that supported 50hz.

P.S. Thanks

Nintendo is guilty for it, but so are plenty of other developers. The latest COD has the same problem. Thing is, the only excuse for this is incompetence of programming to begin with. So should not be allowed.
As for TVs supporting 50HZ, in matter of universalization of the process almost all TVs sold in last few years support both 50 hz and 60 hz frequencies so this would be a problem with old TVs only i guess. But people are slow to change their TVs it seems. apperently a lot of people still use SD TVs (myself included, though my first TV hasnt been turned on in 5 years now and my second TV is inherited and is turned on once a week only, monitors FTW)

 

[TallanKhan]

People need to realise that compaies are not run by democracy. You have no way of judging what a petition will actually translate into in terms of sales and businesses need to make decisions based on whether or not ventures are commercially viable.

 

[Dragonbums]

Is it bad that I bought a Wii-U purely with the Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem cross-over in mind? Don't get me wrong, I have Wind Waker HD, Super Mario Bros U, Deus Ex and SM3DW and all are great, but the only thing on my mind going to pick up my Wii-U was that cross-over...

There is never anything wrong with buying a console for a single game if you really want it that much. Hell, I bought the 3DS last Christmas because I knew the next Pokemon game was going to be on the 3DS and I wanted to be able to get that game the first day (granted I ended up getting a lot more good games that I never thought I would like along the way.)

I was basically just making a hypothetical scenario of what would happen if the Wii U launched with just X and SM3DW. It would literally be the exact same sentiment across the web. Only difference is that they might get more sales than now.

Honestly, Nintendo shouldn't blindly accept what the internet wants, I recall the director of Pokemon openly mocking people who requesting silly ideas for games like have all regions, but only 1st gen Pokemon and other such nonsense.

Which was basically what Reggie was saying in the article. He never said they never listen to petitions. All he said was that they take a lot of consideration into these things, and often times what the petitions are asking can potentially be a waste of money and time for Nintendo.
Which...shouldn't be a surprise because I'm pretty sure every company would say that if you asked them that same question.

People than took that as confirmation that Nintendo ignores their fans completely.

As for the Pokemon thing, I'm not surprised Ken Sugimori mocked them eventually. Gamefreak get's harped by the same "Genwunners" every single damn time they make a new Pokemon generation. They were the most annoying around Generation 5.
They for the most part never bought a single games since Red/Blue Gold/Silver and often claim that they will NEVER buy a new Pokemon game until they get rid of the "bad" gens, keep their nostalgia tinted 1st gen, and maybe make it an MMO because that's the "in" right now.


Oh no. I'm ranting again. Crap.

 

[ClanCrusher]

Let's assume for a moment that Nintendo is being completely straight up with us, that they don't pay attention to petitions or feel that a hundred thousand people expressing interest in a game is any indication of what potential sales figures might be. Let's just take them at their word and assume that they really are that cynical.

If all of that is true (and I have to express a bit of skepticism in that), why oh why would you tell your fans that? As many in this thread have already pointed out, signing petitions is relatively simple and straightforward, and those that get enough momentum tend to spread to news sources like The Escapist, and then the news bandwagon takes off and suddenly everyone knows about the game.

But if you suddenly tell them that petitions don't matter to you, then what reason would your fans have to even bother with them in the first place? All of a sudden you lose out on that free publicity, and for what? So that you can tell your fans that their interest doesn't matter?

You claim you don't use petitions to make decisions, fair enough. I'm pretty sure that everyone on some level knows that a hundred thousand signatures on a piece of paper is only ever going to be a small factor in making marketing decisions, but what exactly do you hope to accomplish by telling everyone that? Near as I can tell, the only thing that will change is people won't bother, and then a small marketing tool (which, again, is free) suddenly becomes non-existent.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

This actually sounds pretty reasonable. Just because people sign a petition doesn't mean they'll actually go out and buy it (kinda reminds me of the MW2 'boycott', albeit flipped around) and Nintendo aren't going to go to all the effort and cost of distribution for only a few sales. In the real world and not the self-centered fantasy land that some gamers seem to live in, that's sensible business, not 'not caring about fans'.