Nintendo Says No To Same Sex Relationships For Tomodachi Miis

[Requia]

Considering how wildly popular it is in Japan perhaps this speaks a lot about the country?

haha I kid I kid. (Please don't take this seriously anyone watching this thread.)

I just looked up some crime statistics and found that a person is 4 times more likely to be raped in the U.S. than in Japan. And suicide rates for ages under 34 are lower in Japan as well.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Japan/United-States/Crime

So maybe the prevalence of sex games in Japan (and the U.S. market's aversion to them) does speak a lot about both countries.

There's definitely a correlation. Would be pretty difficult to prove a cause-and-effect though.

Don't be so sure the rape figures are any good. Different data collection methods can lead to drastically different results on the question. Unless it was a deliberate side by side comparison the difference in figures could come down entirely to that.

 

[marioandsonic]

I see what they're saying. They're a game company that wants to appeal to the broadest audience they could. Doesn't mean the deserve so much hate. Now-a-days if something has the ability to marry another character in a game, date a character in game, or what have you; the company gets reviled and called homophobic for not including same sex afore-mentioned things in game.

Look, I get it. We ALL want same sex marriage in the real world. I doubt the way to do that is to complain about it not being in a video game.

Perhaps, and I do hope you follow me here; Perhaps if we get it to be a real thing almost globally, the games and entertainment we all enjoy will follow suit. First we get it socially approved in the real world, then we get it in media. Simple.

Even then, people don't seem to understand coding and game code. Because originally the "Same Sex" ability was a bug error that corrupted and killed game files in the original game. And so for the ability to have same sex marriage/couples/relationships in the game? Most likely a complete rewrite of the game's code. Seriously, how much work would that take? It could possibly take a year or two because of issues with bugs and such that that could be created.

This is a localization port that is hitting the lowest amount of money used because Nintendo has no idea how the game would even be received. Expecting something like an entire code rewrite within a year for a major part of a game is really, really ignorant of costs and time management.

These comments pretty much sum up my thoughts. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for same-sex marriage, and I hope I'll live to see it legalized in the US and other countries. At the same time, it doesn't make sense to recode an entire game for localization, as that would take a serious amount of time and money.

 

[AgedGrunt]

Waiting for the Escapist banner propositioning all Nintendo gamers to stop supporting this same-sex love-destroying company and switch consoles.

The interesting part is this, unlike the case with Mozilla, is actually about more than a referendum on marriage.

Once again I say stick with your principles. If you can't tolerate one personal political donation against same-sex marriage then you can't tolerate the official company response here. The hypocrisy will be legendary as loyalists cut Nintendo miles of slack out of their own selfish interests (they won't boycott and sabotage their own gaming habits, whereas Chick-Fil-A and Firefox are things easily tossed in the fire).

 

[verdant monkai]

Its times like this when I really feel sorry for whoever has to do some corporate apologising, to the livid gay tomodachi life potential customers.

Others feel different I know but I dont really care that I cant make Donkey Kong kiss Mario and for it to mean something.

 

[Vegosiux]

What? Three board members resigned and there were already a ton of employees who were upset with his appointment before any attention was brought to it.

Even if so, do you know their reasons? Oh right, it must have been the Prop 8 thing. What else could it be? Irreconcilable differences over the mid-term financial and expansion plans? Ridiculous, nobody would resign over that.

No really, I'm being a bit facetious there, but I'd rather have a clear answer on things as opposed to assuming the answer can't possibly anything other than what suits me most. I mean, sure, it could be the Prop 8 thing. It could also be any other reason for which an executive resigns when a new CEO is appointed.

I'm not getting into the rest of the post, but this kind of stuff always rubs me the wrong way, people assuming they know the reasons and motivations of people they know nothing about.[footnote]Yes, it annoys me even when I do it![/footnote]

 

[Eve Charm]

Hmm ya I wonder why this huge thread full of people aren't all screaming boycott and bigot at nintendo, Oh I can think of two, First the person that's behind the whole movement thing THIS HERE is against boycotting nintendo and calling it a bigot,

Yes, and many people would agree, or disagree, with that sentiment regardless of whether he mentioned it.

It's not whether or not he mentioned it or not, it's HE DID MENTION IT AND GAVE REASONS NOT TO. Anyone that would give a damn about supporting his idea would do so.

and second this is about a VIDEO GAME.

So? That doesn't excuse hateful comedy.

Hey, why do Jews have such big noses? Its because air is free!

Whats the one word that begins with 'n' that you never want to call a black person? Neighbor

Whats the difference between a black man and a pizza? A pizza can feed a family of four!

Oh ha ha ha, so funny right? Except, not really.

No it's a means of entertainment, Do people start riots everytime Eddie Murphy or Chris rock make a racist joke? or when wanda sykes or Lisa Lampanelli makes an LBGT joke or a christian joke? Or the guy that calls himself fluffy makes a fat joke. This isn't some dive bar backroom and no hateful comment or jokes were made from nintendo to begin with.

This hasn't been a fight vs pro LGBT vs anti, no this is for some reason a fight vs sensible people with a cause anyone that hasn't been living under a rock, can easily get behind, just including more relationship types no matter if your LGBT or not, VS a bunch of stark raving mad Pro LGBT that most didn't even take the time to read up on it, Just see it as another spot to Push their real life agenda.

But if you think for one second I'm hear to support and push radical "your with us or against us" Hate or "your not supporting so your the problem" BS trying to get thrown on top, No, No i'm not.

Well, too bad, I'll still call things for how they are. That doesn't make you a homophobe, but if you have no stake, and you're not making an effort in helping LGBT people, I will remember that while you're not an enemy, you're not an ally either. Same thing with Nintendo. Nothing special about that. Why respect somebody who doesn't respect you?

Oh And what does it require of me to make an effort of helping the LGBT if not effectively trying to stop you from destroying something that is suppose to be FOR YOU, again, not for me, FOR YOU. What do you expect people to become LGBT before they could support the community? The funny thing is most of the people aren't even looking for support, Just another soapbox to rant and rave on. The sensible people are needed to tell people to get off it so the right message can be expressed before the soapbox becomes a trampled mess of cardboard people dumped their agenda on.

 

[ToastyMozart]

I don't think this is out of malice or anything, Nintendo just has a long tradition of not wanting to be yelled at by religious nut jobs. They didn't like any religious iconography on games released on their systems, they had midway remove the blood from Mortal Kombat 1, and they wouldn't allow Binding of Issac to be released on the ds or 3ds.

When it comes to issues of LGBTQ, if you're not with us then you're part of the problem.

The biggest issue being faced is apathy or indifference to the issue and having it be ignored.

Honestly, this sort of attitude is FAR more damaging to the LGBTQ equality movement than a company patching out a male pregnancy bug that corrupted game files and locked progression up.

This "With us or against us" mentality is a toxic, damaging approach. You will NEVER achive equality so long as you make everything a confrontation.

You can only ever reach true social equality through cooperation and calm discussion, because for every person you rage at and accuse of "being the problem," you have just instilled another person with resentment for your movement and what it stands for.

Regardless of one's point, nobody wants to listen to someone who's accusing them. All this factiolnalistic bullshit is serving to do is engender more opposition to your movement/give ammo to the people who oppose you. Just look at congress for an example of what can be done when everyone picks a side instead of working together: JACK SHIT.


(Side note, it's pretty ironic that some members of a group so heavily against binary gender assignment are so quick to assign people a binary position.)

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I don't think this is out of malice or anything, Nintendo just has a long tradition of not wanting to be yelled at by religious nut jobs.

So what you're saying is Nintendo's actions are justified through cowardice?

*tunes lute*

Brave Nintendo ran away.
Bravely ran away away.
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Nintendo turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.

 

[McMarbles]

You know, I think it needs to be said. Context. Is. Everything. I absolutely hate it when people jump into a controversy without hearing both sides or doing their research first. MiiQuality specifically said not to call for a boycott and what do people do, call for a boycott. Nintendo has stated that the whole thing was a game breaking glitch with the transfer systems, which would do the following, delete save data, physically damage the 3DS system, and cause male Miis to become pregnant. It had nothing to do with gay couples and the lack thereof. Would it be nice if Nintendo had added same sex mii couples? Yeah it would, but heres the thing, the game was already finished and shipped in Japan when it was patched. There was literally nothing Nintendo could do at the time. Have people learned nothing from the Cancel Colbert fiasco?

Well, there are people who genuinely care about this issue, and I fully support them.

Then there are those who want an outrage-bandwagon to jump on, and those who don't actually care about the issue but see a great excuse to indulge in system wars crap (haven't really seen any of either here, but boy is GF stocked with the latter). These people have no interest in hearing both sides or doing their research, and they never will.

 

[Worgen]

I don't think this is out of malice or anything, Nintendo just has a long tradition of not wanting to be yelled at by religious nut jobs.

So what you're saying is Nintendo's actions are justified through cowardice?

*tunes lute*

Brave Nintendo ran away.
Bravely ran away away.
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Nintendo turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.

I didn't say justified, but their reaction was to be expected.

 

[O-Castitatis-Lilium]

umm last I checked, this game was rated E for everyone. This is nothing more than a kids version of the sims. So why should they have things in the game that really young children aren't going to understand. Think about this for a moment. Everyone here is claiming that Nintendo is being homophobic by not including same sex relationships. What you all are missing is the fact that majority of parents are going to buy this game for their 5 year old to play. Now, some parents might not have an issue with teaching their child about same sex relationships at that age but, a lot of them still are because, well it's complicated for a child to understand that complex of a thing. At 5, they barely understand how a male and a female relationship make a child, if the parents, again, choose to tell them that. so for all of you planning to boycott a game that is made for children because it doesn't give you your adult choices or whatever else have you, that's pretty immature of you.

 

[McMarbles]

umm last I checked, this game was rated E for everyone. This is nothing more than a kids version of the sims. So why should they have things in the game that really young children aren't going to understand. Think about this for a moment. Everyone here is claiming that Nintendo is being homophobic by not including same sex relationships. What you all are missing is the fact that majority of parents are going to buy this game for their 5 year old to play. Now, some parents might not have an issue with teaching their child about same sex relationships at that age but, a lot of them still are because, well it's complicated for a child to understand that complex of a thing. At 5, they barely understand how a male and a female relationship make a child, if the parents, again, choose to tell them that. so for all of you planning to boycott a game that is made for children because it doesn't give you your adult choices or whatever else have you, that's pretty immature of you.

"Won't somebody PLEEEEEEASE think of the CHILDREN?" is a terrible argument in this day and age. It's up there with "Why won't they let me marry dogs and toasters?"

 

[McMarbles]

umm last I checked, this game was rated E for everyone. This is nothing more than a kids version of the sims. So why should they have things in the game that really young children aren't going to understand. Think about this for a moment. Everyone here is claiming that Nintendo is being homophobic by not including same sex relationships. What you all are missing is the fact that majority of parents are going to buy this game for their 5 year old to play. Now, some parents might not have an issue with teaching their child about same sex relationships at that age but, a lot of them still are because, well it's complicated for a child to understand that complex of a thing. At 5, they barely understand how a male and a female relationship make a child, if the parents, again, choose to tell them that. so for all of you planning to boycott a game that is made for children because it doesn't give you your adult choices or whatever else have you, that's pretty immature of you.

"Won't somebody PLEEEEEEASE think of the CHILDREN?" is a terrible argument in this day and age. It's up there with "Why won't they let me marry dogs and toasters?"

ok so why should your issue be forced into everything that includes children when the parents have the choice to teach it to them now or later? so why should this be forced into a children's game. That's like trying to force treehouse tv to educate 2 year olds about homosexuality and how gay sex works. To be honest, the fact that you want it forced into every single thing involving kids is just down right stupid. your satyr of my argument is ignorant and my argument is a valid one, whether you like it or not because, in the end, the parents are the ones that will choose to teach their children about it or not, and if they choose to, when they teach it to them, why should they be forced to have it taught to their child by the rest of society, at a time that they know for a fact as parents, that the kid isn't going to understand it. you are just being a moron and are doing nothing but whining about not being included in a game for kids, get over it.

TL is a game where an avatar that supposedly represents you can engage in relationships. Asking for same sex relationships to be represented in such a game is not "forcing it into every single thing." It's something entirely reasonable, and it should have been in the game, and Nintendo was wrong for not including it. Whether this makes them malicious or homophobic is a different matter (I do not believe it does).

 

[Silvershock]

Even then, people don't seem to understand coding and game code. Because originally the "Same Sex" ability was a bug error that corrupted and killed game files in the original game. And so for the ability to have same sex marriage/couples/relationships in the game? Most likely a complete rewrite of the game's code. Seriously, how much work would that take? It could possibly take a year or two because of issues with bugs and such that that could be created.

As a programmer, that's.....unlikely. Thinking in my head of the various ways the gender and interaction of avatars could have been programmed in that game, I don't see that allowing a new set of interactions would be particularly difficult. I know that Nintendo is allergic to patching their games, but this seems relevant to me. Promising a future update could have solved this entire thing. Also, you're incorrect that the same-sex thing was the save-killer bug; that was actually caused when importing characters from an old game, as I understand it.

Regardless, the programming aspect is irrelevant - Nintendo didn't cite it as a reason. Their reasoning went like this:

Straight people: normal
Gay people: social commentary

And I can't agree with that.

 

[O-Castitatis-Lilium]

umm last I checked, this game was rated E for everyone. This is nothing more than a kids version of the sims. So why should they have things in the game that really young children aren't going to understand. Think about this for a moment. Everyone here is claiming that Nintendo is being homophobic by not including same sex relationships. What you all are missing is the fact that majority of parents are going to buy this game for their 5 year old to play. Now, some parents might not have an issue with teaching their child about same sex relationships at that age but, a lot of them still are because, well it's complicated for a child to understand that complex of a thing. At 5, they barely understand how a male and a female relationship make a child, if the parents, again, choose to tell them that. so for all of you planning to boycott a game that is made for children because it doesn't give you your adult choices or whatever else have you, that's pretty immature of you.

"Won't somebody PLEEEEEEASE think of the CHILDREN?" is a terrible argument in this day and age. It's up there with "Why won't they let me marry dogs and toasters?"

ok so why should your issue be forced into everything that includes children when the parents have the choice to teach it to them now or later? so why should this be forced into a children's game. That's like trying to force treehouse tv to educate 2 year olds about homosexuality and how gay sex works. To be honest, the fact that you want it forced into every single thing involving kids is just down right stupid. your satyr of my argument is ignorant and my argument is a valid one, whether you like it or not because, in the end, the parents are the ones that will choose to teach their children about it or not, and if they choose to, when they teach it to them, why should they be forced to have it taught to their child by the rest of society, at a time that they know for a fact as parents, that the kid isn't going to understand it. you are just being a moron and are doing nothing but whining about not being included in a game for kids, get over it.

TL is a game where an avatar that supposedly represents you can engage in relationships. Asking for same sex relationships to be represented in such a game is not "forcing it into every single thing." It's something entirely reasonable, and it should have been in the game, and Nintendo was wrong for not including it. Whether this makes them malicious or homophobic is a different matter (I do not believe it does).

But, again, they are dealing with children. unfortunately, they would rather deal with upset individuals rather than dealing with upset parents. Nintendo comes from a different culture. they focus on parents and children when marketing things. Sure, this is also the same culture that has a vast amount of anime homosexual porn and has a whole subculture for it but, if you have noticed that it isn't within general public view. The stores that carry these types of things either are in the the smallest corners of the shopping districts or they are in a completely different room entirely in the store. So, for them this is something that isn't in the majority of their society. Gay marriage is not legal in japan so of course they aren't going to put it into a game that was originally made for japan only, they are porting it over, so they aren't really going to change it if it's just a port. so again, from your previous satyr of my argument and telling me that it is not a valid argument these days, was rather ignorant. It is a valid argument. Sure, a lot can be said for japan's contradictions in their culture but, ultimately, Nintendo is going to focus on what obeys the rules of it's country,so you can't really chastise them for obeying their laws in a game that they never had intended to be ported in the first place.

You are right in the sense that asking for this in a game isn't forcing it into everything but, a lot of the people on here are sounding like they are the type to want that, which isn't right either on their part. A lot of them are acting like it's this huge dilemma and this huge "attacking" mark to the community they are apart of but, in reality, it's not. They are the ones that are being ignorant and stupid for not taking 5 minutes to read into other cultures and how Nintendo's culture works. Look the point is, is that this is a childrens game that originated in a country where gay marriage and gay relationships are seen as a huge no no still in the vast majority of their society. so for people of the gay community to act like savage animals towards a company that has completely different laws and culture on the other side of the world, without looking into any of it and trying to understand it, is not doing the gay community any justice nor are they showing that the community should be taken seriously.

 

[deadish]

Their game, their rules.

Like it, buy it. Don't like it, don't buy it.

I don't really see any harm done. What's the worst that could happen? Kids get "influenced" by it? If so, well damn, all US kids are going to grow up to be gun wielding, trigger happy, violent psychopaths then.

 

[Dragonbums]

I know that Nintendo is allergic to patching their games,

What? Have you seen how fast Nintendo responds to and fixes major bugs found in their games upon release?

 

[McMarbles]

I know that Nintendo is allergic to patching their games,

What? Have you seen how fast Nintendo responds to and fixes major bugs found in their games upon release?

Claims about Nintendo don't have to be true, they just have to sound true.

see also: Nintendo hasn't made a single new IP in fifteen years.

 

[Andy Shandy]

Fair play to Nintendo, they've now said they will strive to be more inclusive in any potential sequels to Tomodachi Life.

http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/c4FWbi-Uave2T9R1h7SFzX0aoa-d4pgx

A better statement than yesterday.

 

[DaViller]

Seems we are pretty close to a dragons crown situation again, surely entertaining.

This game would probably not have sold many copies anyway and it´s unfortunate that this "controversy" might hurt sales. On the other (less likely) hand the extra recognition through all the talking might increase sales. So heres hoping for the second possibility, it seems to be the most beneficial for everyone.

Edit: To the above guy, sadly noone will care about that. The internet rage machine usually doesn´t care about apologies.