Nintendo Underestimated the Cost of Going HD

[CrystalShadow]

Will Nintendo freak out when we tell them after HD is Blu-ray?

Ahem. Blu-ray is a storage medium. HD is a graphics resolution standard. That's like comparing apples and oranges. ;p

(Besides; Blu-ray is about 25-50 gb disks... Wii U disks are... Surprise, surprise. 25 gb or so. So they already have blu-ray or something equivalent...)

 

[Dryk]

Games support exactly zero online chat, and remains so until they release the room-wide microphone. Again, not exactly efficient.

And yet here we are in 2013 where a new console is coming out pushing a room-wide microphone

 

[Talaris]

Wow, hearing this really surprised me. After all, consoles that support HD textures and resolutions started with the xbox 360 in 2005, did no one at Nintendo think to check out the competition and see how they were coping with the development/financial implications of HD during all this time?

A real shame, because at the right price point and with some decent returns of Metriod and Zelda I would really consider buying the Wii U as a second console, I guess I just have to play the waiting game.

 

[Olas]

Someone please remind me, why is HD important again? Seriously Nintendo, stop going down the dead end route that Sony and Microsoft are stumbling toward. You'll never be the most powerful and in the process you're just making everything harder and more expensive, which in turn means fewer and less risky games.

 

[Norithics]

Well.
On the one hand, that is bad news for them.
But on the other, they do stand to benefit from Microsoft's ill-fated "PR is where you anger as many people as possible, right?" strategy, and games do sell a system. I like the possibilities that the Wii U represents, but I got burned on its predecessor quite hard, so it's going to take some very spirited convincing in order to sway me- and I'm afraid it will only be after I've purchased a PS4.

 

[Roxor]

This business of costing more to make when bumping up the screen resolution is bullshit. You can do it on any PC game just by changing the screen resolution in the game's settings or editing the configuration file.

 

[MisterM2402]

Someone please remind me, why is HD important again? Seriously Nintendo, stop going down the dead end route that Sony and Microsoft are stumbling toward. You'll never be the most powerful and in the process you're just making everything harder and more expensive, which in turn means fewer and less risky games.

My thoughts exactly. Being HD isn't integral to being a good game. To be honest, looking at the screens of the Wind Waker remake, I think it actually *loses* something in shifting over to HD graphics. Granted, some games can benefit from it, but I don't know why it's thought to be a necessity.

 

[janjotat]

I cant wait to see the shock on their faces when 4k and 8k tvs become standard

 

[OldNewNewOld]

This business of costing more to make when bumping up the screen resolution is bullshit. You can do it on any PC game just by changing the screen resolution in the game's settings or editing the configuration file.

I... you... are you serious?
No really, are you serious because I certainly can't say if this is sarcasm or not.

OT:
Well yeah, it's obvious the underestimated it considering the slow released and delay of some games.
But I doubt it's like some people saying that they didn't do any research. It's hard to make a 100% accurate estimation of the manpower you need to make a game.
Especially if you look at games like AssCreed that had 500+ developer working on a single game.

Nintendo is known for having smaller teams working on games, not huge teams (except Retro during the Prime development).
Also, coupled with this news [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125717-Satoru-Iwata-Refuses-to-Layoff-Nintendo-Employees], it's obvious that they didn't want to overestimate the size of the team needed.
You don't want to find new employees just so that you can fire them in 3 months.

 

[CrystalShadow]

This business of costing more to make when bumping up the screen resolution is bullshit. You can do it on any PC game just by changing the screen resolution in the game's settings or editing the configuration file.

OK, seriously? It's not the resolution.

'HD' is not merely a higher resolution. IT's all the extra texture and model details needed because of the extra resolution.

Try running a game from 2000 or so at 1280 by 1024 or higher on a PC... They don't have the detail compared to 'HD' games...

Resolution is simply an easy label to use to describe a massive increase in graphical detail level. (And cost in making graphical resources is more or less proportional to the amount of detail involved.)

 

[Darmani]

Will Nintendo freak out when we tell them after HD is Blu-ray?

Ahem. Blu-ray is a storage medium. HD is a graphics resolution standard. That's like comparing apples and oranges. ;p

(Besides; Blu-ray is about 25-50 gb disks... Wii U disks are... Surprise, surprise. 25 gb or so. So they already have blu-ray or something equivalent...)

Not to mention BLu-Ray is a *transitional* storage medium. Solid State or large streaming services is considered more the future (think how cheap gigs are on external drives you could fit in say a generous pocket) particularly with interaction and the control over software Digital distribution offers that physical media always seems to undermine by virtue of example.

Yeah they likely didn't pay direct attention to other HD studios but look closely at how much they've mimicked their failings. If anything shoddy production/output is the more likely than slowed output and they have nothing to do with currently capable developers and publishers outright jumping ship on them starting with Ubisoft which *happily* profited from Rabbids again, and again, and again, and again on the Wii and even enjoyed some success on ZombiU. even in the lead up to the WiiU's release they did a massive drive but as for "this is going to take more manpower" yeah I can understand that hitting them.

It seems the story is that Western Development is the way it is in part due to laziness. There are large collaborative projects people will cite as proof. The differing time/shift expectiations, the style of development, and the overall cultural aspects.

There is also something else. Nintendo can't win this on the tech treadmill but with a good market strategy and in terms of offering solid past performers. They are offering excellent doses of that.

 

[Roxas1359]

Someone please remind me, why is HD important again? Seriously Nintendo, stop going down the dead end route that Sony and Microsoft are stumbling toward. You'll never be the most powerful and in the process you're just making everything harder and more expensive, which in turn means fewer and less risky games.

It isn't integral, but TVs nowadays are produced with either only an HDMI port or component cables and more and more TVs are moving away from SD so Nintendo was going to have to change eventually. Unfortunately MS set the standard for HD and having consoles be in HD so Nintendo would have to have no other choice but to eventually change.
Nintendo should have done at least some research into this in the past as they had plenty of opportunity to do so.

 

[masticina]

Mmm interrestingly next gen hasn't really made game installations that much huger. I mean GTA IV was about 10. GTA V probably will also be around 10. So storage wise isn't that much huger.

That aside, yeah HD takes more.. that is why stylized graphics was so much easier. It didn't have to look real as long as you could give it a nice style!

But yes even then just stretching graphics doesn't do it does it. I do hope Nintendo does work things out, they are important on the games market.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

This is rather unfortunate. I hope they get themselves sorted out so that the WiiU will be a lot better for when I decide to go and buy it. Just needs a few exclusives to release, then we're good, but it needs to survive afterwards. I love Nintendo, so I pray it all turns out fine in the end

 

[stabnex]

Will Nintendo freak out when we tell them after HD is Blu-ray?

Umm... the WiiU uses Blu-Ray.

OT: I have to hand it to them for their honesty, though I can't help but wonder if this is a distraction from the fact that a lot of games still aren't out, and this must be an admission that a lot are going to take even longer to develop. Oh well, you shiv and burn.

I still support my purchase of the WiiU and am giddy every time I boot it up seeing new titles on the WiiUshop every day

 

[Fox12]

Ugh. I respect Nintendo on a moral level, but I wish they'd COMPETE. I look at Nintendo and say "this is how other companies should treat their customers." Then I see they're releasing the same six franchises and I get bored. Oh well, I'm going to go play The Last of Us some more.

 

[Roxor]

This business of costing more to make when bumping up the screen resolution is bullshit. You can do it on any PC game just by changing the screen resolution in the game's settings or editing the configuration file.

I... you... are you serious?
No really, are you serious because I certainly can't say if this is sarcasm or not.

Yes, I'm serious. See my replies to the other posters below.

This business of costing more to make when bumping up the screen resolution is bullshit. You can do it on any PC game just by changing the screen resolution in the game's settings or editing the configuration file.

OK, seriously? It's not the resolution.

'HD' is not merely a higher resolution. IT's all the extra texture and model details needed because of the extra resolution.

Try running a game from 2000 or so at 1280 by 1024 or higher on a PC... They don't have the detail compared to 'HD' games...

Resolution is simply an easy label to use to describe a massive increase in graphical detail level. (And cost in making graphical resources is more or less proportional to the amount of detail involved.)

And I will maintain that all that extra detail is simply not necessary for the game to look good. See also the next quoted post.

This business of costing more to make when bumping up the screen resolution is bullshit. You can do it on any PC game just by changing the screen resolution in the game's settings or editing the configuration file.

Yep, Nintendo is bullshitting to try and hide their mediocre output so far. Although what they refer to is probably the extended scope of the gamedesign in comparison to other competitors. Anything that is rendered in 3D and even most 2D stuff will look better "in HD" no matter how much or less detail there is, it'll be sharper.
Even simple stuff like this looks better in 1080p: http://u.cubeupload.com/palutena/GZLE01133.png

Every single Wii game runs "in HD" on a PC and looks stunningly better: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395121
This thread is filled with Screenshots and examples.

Other than that you could also type "Dolphin Emulator 1080p" in Google and see what you come up with: http://www.google.com/#q=dolphin+emulator+1080p&source=univ&tbm=vid&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=PFPYUaiMO47Psga56oCACg&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQqwQ&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.Yms&fp=ccb626272f92d105&biw=1904&bih=841

Couldn't have put it better myself. Yes, running older console games in emulators on the PC or older PC games after setting the resolution higher than you would have used 10-15 years ago look significantly better, especially if your graphics hardware is fast enough to also use anti-aliasing.

 

[CrystalShadow]

This business of costing more to make when bumping up the screen resolution is bullshit. You can do it on any PC game just by changing the screen resolution in the game's settings or editing the configuration file.

I... you... are you serious?
No really, are you serious because I certainly can't say if this is sarcasm or not.

Yes, I'm serious. See my replies to the other posters below.

This business of costing more to make when bumping up the screen resolution is bullshit. You can do it on any PC game just by changing the screen resolution in the game's settings or editing the configuration file.

OK, seriously? It's not the resolution.

'HD' is not merely a higher resolution. IT's all the extra texture and model details needed because of the extra resolution.

Try running a game from 2000 or so at 1280 by 1024 or higher on a PC... They don't have the detail compared to 'HD' games...

Resolution is simply an easy label to use to describe a massive increase in graphical detail level. (And cost in making graphical resources is more or less proportional to the amount of detail involved.)

And I will maintain that all that extra detail is simply not necessary for the game to look good. See also the next quoted post.

This business of costing more to make when bumping up the screen resolution is bullshit. You can do it on any PC game just by changing the screen resolution in the game's settings or editing the configuration file.

Yep, Nintendo is bullshitting to try and hide their mediocre output so far. Although what they refer to is probably the extended scope of the gamedesign in comparison to other competitors. Anything that is rendered in 3D and even most 2D stuff will look better "in HD" no matter how much or less detail there is, it'll be sharper.
Even simple stuff like this looks better in 1080p: http://u.cubeupload.com/palutena/GZLE01133.png

Every single Wii game runs "in HD" on a PC and looks stunningly better: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395121
This thread is filled with Screenshots and examples.

Other than that you could also type "Dolphin Emulator 1080p" in Google and see what you come up with: http://www.google.com/#q=dolphin+emulator+1080p&source=univ&tbm=vid&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=PFPYUaiMO47Psga56oCACg&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQqwQ&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.Yms&fp=ccb626272f92d105&biw=1904&bih=841

Couldn't have put it better myself. Yes, running older console games in emulators on the PC or older PC games after setting the resolution higher than you would have used 10-15 years ago look significantly better, especially if your graphics hardware is fast enough to also use anti-aliasing.

I've routinely run old games at much higher resolutions and honestly, I disagree completely.
For that matter, I've run newer games at very low resolutions too.

Personally, I find the exact opposite. Resolution doesn't do much at all. Running a game with better geometry, lighting, shadow detail and textures does far more for the experience than merely increasing the resolution.

In fact, I'd rather lower the resolution if it means increasing the detail some other way than increase the resolution at the expense of detail.

In other words, my opinion here is diametrically opposed to yours.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Its not so much going HD its refusing to go HD that cost them.... Since they refuse to adapt they are paying for it now being a game desert.

 

[Something Amyss]

As a mainly PC gamer i can't help but look at this whole "HD/SD" business and chuckle a little. My monitor has technically been HD for about a decade now.

And even then, you've had a higher resolution screen for ages.Modern Nintendo is a slow moving dinosaur of a company. As evidenced by... well everything they do.

More specifically, they're a bunch of cheapskates. They build cheaper consoles they won't take a loss on, for te most part. Not only have Nintendo fans adapted, but they actively defend the process as being necessary, despite Nintendo being huge and more than capable of short term loss for long term gain. (almost typed "game" there)

And that always puts them behind the curve. Though the dinsaurs bit may be partially accurate in that I don't know how they didn't think new technology wasn't going to have these issues.

Its not so much going HD its refusing to go HD that cost them.... Since they refuse to adapt they are paying for it now being a game desert.

Pretty good points. Had they gone HD last gen, they would have experience, and less issues with it. Then again, i stand by my "Nintendo is cheap" philosophy, so there's a decent chance they'd still have trouble adapting. I mean, just look at their internal storage solution: on the basic model, the system update pretty much fills the thing. And they want to sell HD content to people.

I wouldn't be surprised to find they even skimped on the Tablet, which seems to be the only expensive part of the unit.