Yeah, the failure track throws me off. How did he fail? I'm assuming he never came out of his time-lock, thus preventing Gannon from getting his Triforce and conquering the sacred realm. I saw someone propose the theory awhile ago of the failure track but it still seems a bit strange.
Here's my theory on how the three timelines could work. Keep in mind, this is just a theory and it can be subject to change at any time. I'll probably edit here too if someone else comes up with a good idea.
Three timelines exist after Ocarina when Link travels through time during key points in the game.
The failure timeline can occur in several ways. A lot of people on this board suggest that it can occur if Link never pulls the Master Sword and never becomes the Hero of Time. That is possible, but I like to think that you have to try something first before you can officially fail at it. Let's look closer to the end.
In order to save Impa in the Shadow Temple, Link must acquire the Lens of Truth by traveling to the past. If the timeline is allowed to continue past this point and Link does not return, Impa dies.
@HellsingerAngel brought this one up. I'm surprised I didn't remember it. The Shadow Temple was my favorite.
Link explores the Spirit Temple as a child and acquires the Silver Gauntlets. Nabooru is abducted by Koume and Kotake [small](Twinrova)[/small]. If the timeline progresses and Link does not rescue Nabooru as an adult, she remains brainwashed and under Ganon's control.
[HEADING=3]Link Fails Method 3: Link Dies[/HEADING]
The most likely method. It can happen at any point in the story.
Regardless of the method, Link fails in his quest and Ganandorf succeeds in invading the Sacred Realm. This leads to the events of Link to the Past and the Classic timeline.
Skipping to the end of the game. After defeating Ganandorf, Zelda sends Link back in time to warn the sages, resulting in Majora's Mask and the Child timeline. The world in which Zelda stays behind suffers a great flood, leading to the events of Wind Waker and the Adult timeline.
That's how I see it anyway.
[HEADING=3]P.S.[/HEADING]
HellsingerAngel said:
Except if that's the case, he'd create another timeline to follow when going into the well in Kakariko Village as he also needs to go there to get the Lens of Truth, something Adult Link cannot get that he needs to defeat the Shadow Temple, defeat Bongo Bongo and save Impa. By this logic you've presented, there would have to be a success/fail scenario timeline split here as Impa would potentially die.
As for creating another timeline, it would probably end in the same result. Link fails and Ganondorf takes over Hyrule. Thanks for bringing that up, though. I can't believe I forgot Impa.
HellsingerAngel said:
There are also apparent plot holes like why isn't the world still destroyed in ALttP if Ganon won and why does Ganon need the power of the Triforce to conquer the Light World? Where does Link fail that the "Seven Wise Men" who sealed Ganon in the Golden Realm could potentially be the Seven Sages? Where does the Master Sword end up after ALttP because it never appears in that timeline again with Link using the Silver Sword/Silver Saber (depends how much you believe cover art is important) instead of the Master Sword. How does ALttP link up story wise with Link's Awakening, considering that the simple word on Nintendo is in question here -- which, as far as I recall, is the only thing linking them?
After defeating Link, Ganondorf invades the Sacred Realm and ascends to god-tier, becoming Ganon. The Sacred Realm becomes the Dark World. This incites the Imprisoning War with Ganon and his army against the Knights of Hyrule and the surviving Sages. Since none of the Knights are pure enough to wield the Master Sword against Ganon, the Sages are forced to imprison him in the Dark World.
After slaying Ganon in Link to the Past, Link returns the Master Sword to the pedestal. It is never used again.
The Magic Sword and Master Sword are two different weapons.
Link's Awakening apparently happens after the end of Oracles, but like you said, there is nothing that links ALttP, Oracles, and LA together besides word of Nintendo.
HellsingerAngel said:
Overall, this theory holds up better than a streamed timeline any day and Nintendo should really just accept it.
I think your victory/progression and victory/childhood titles are flipped. Majora's Mask should be the childhood progression, with Windwaker being the progression one...everything would make sense, in that case.
I think your victory/progression and victory/childhood titles are flipped. Majora's Mask should be the childhood progression, with Windwaker being the progression one...everything would make sense, in that case.
Link clearly went back to being a child for Majora's Mask, so that would be the childhood timeline, where nothing that happened in Ocarina of Time as Adult Link actually happened. It all got erased when Zelda sent Link back to the moment before he initially pulled the Master Sword.
The victory progression alternate history, in which Link was not returned to that moment by Zelda and his Adult Link adventures and victory over Ganon DID happen would have to be the lead-in for Windwaker, because in the prologue of Windwaker it says that the people remembered the Hero of Time and his victory. How could they remember it if it didn't happen?
I'm gonna chalk the mix-up up to "something was lost in translation while bringing this over from Japanese."
personally ,i'd like to know HOW exactly link failed to stop ganon in oot. was he killed in the spirit realm? crushed in the falling castle? or did he get to the final battle and take an arrow to the knee? either way, some explanation would be nice
We see two instances in Ocarina of Time where Zelda tells Link to do something regarding the ocarina and he obeys.
First, Zelda throws him the ocarina with a telepathic message telling him to open the Door of Time in the Temple of Time. This leads to him pulling the Master Sword and so on and so forth. I think that, in the failure timeline, Link didn't listen her. He didn't pull the Master Sword. Maybe he tried to return the Ocarina to the King; maybe he tried to go into hiding; maybe he tried to after Zelda. In the end, Ganon gets his hands on the ocarina and the stones and uses the Door of Time to enter the Sacred Realm and get the Triforce. With no one to stop him, the history leads on to Link to the Past. This all fits when you consider that in LTTP it is said that no hero has ever been proven worthy to wield the Master Sword and the LTTP Link is the first one to do so. This would only be possible if OOT Link never pulled it.
The second one is, of course, at the very end when Zelda tells Link to give her the Ocarina and she will return him to his own time; she returns him to the moment right before he pulls the Master Sword, preventing the Door of Time from ever being opened and preventing Ganon from ever getting the Triforce. I think that, for the one of the timelines, he refuses, and history stays as it is.
Then there is of course the third timeline that leads off of the Ocarina of Time story playing out exactly as we see it, where Link listens to her and does what she tells him to do on both occasions.
Also, the two timelines at the end are mislabeled. The "Victory/Childhood" should lead on to Majora's Mask and "Victory/Progression" should lead on to Windwaker. There are distinct things in both games that point to this as true. I'm thinking there was a mistranslation in this article.
Three timelines exist after Ocarina when Link travels through time at two key points in the game.
The first timeline occurs when Link explores the Spirit Temple as a child and Nabooru is abducted by Twinrova. After attaining the Silver Gauntlets, Link abandons this timeline and travels back to the future (if that makes any sense). Because Link was unable to save Nabooru, Ganondorf succeeds in conquering Hyrule, leading to the events of A Link to the Past and the Classic timeline.
Link returns to his own timeline as an adult and rescues Nabooru, allowing him to continue his quest. After defeating Ganandorf, Zelda sends Link back in time to warn the sages, resulting in Majora's Mask and the Child timeline. The world in which Zelda stays behind suffers a great flood, leading to the events of Wind Waker and the Adult timeline.
Interesting, but I'm gonna stick with my theory: the ocarina itself is the crux on which these timelines split.
We see two instances in Ocarina of Time where Zelda tells Link to do something regarding the ocarina and he obeys.
The first instance is when Zelda throws him the ocarina with a telepathic message telling him to open the Door of Time in the Temple of Time. He obeys, and this leads to him pulling the Master Sword, Ganon getting the Triforce, and so on and so forth. I think that, in the "failure" timeline, Link didn't listen her. He didn't use the ocarina or pull the Master Sword. Maybe he tried to return the ocarina to the King; maybe he tried to go into hiding; maybe he tried to after Zelda. In the end, Ganon gets his hands on the ocarina and the spiritual stones and uses the Door of Time to enter the Sacred Realm and get the Triforce. With no one to stop him, the history leads on to Link to the Past. This all fits when you consider that in LTTP it is said that no hero has ever been proven worthy to wield the Master Sword; that the LTTP Link is the first person to pull it. This would only be possible if OOT Link never pulled it.
The second instance is, of course, at the very end when Zelda tells Link to give her the ocarina and she will return him to his own time; she returns him to the moment right before he pulls the Master Sword, preventing the Door of Time from ever being opened, preventing the Master Sword from being pulled, and preventing Ganon from ever getting the Triforce. For this alternate timeline, he refuses to be sent back. The Adult Link history stays as it is and proceeds from there, with Ganon locked away in the Sacred Realm with the Triforce of Power. This leads into Windwaker.
The Childhood timeline is with Majora's Mask.
The Adult timeline is with Wind Waker. In Wain Waker, Hyrul was flooded because there was no her to save it. That's because Zelda sent the adult Link back to his childhood.
IMHO, this is the best explanation of the Zelda timeline.
This is from the book.
Also, I already made a thread about this. 3 days ago.
Link [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.335473-Official-Zelda-timeline?]
One thing troubles me though: Why isn't Link in on any of these parallel and alternate reality shenanigans? Is Link some sort of spirit, continually resurrected without knowledge of his past lives to defeat the mighty evils of the somewhat complicated universe he lives in? Are all of these "Links" actually just different, mostly mute, elf-people in one of the most unlikely coincidences of all time?
To answer those questions, I will have to spoiler some parts from Skyward Sword.
In the end, when Link defeats Demise, he explains what will happen.
Demise hatred will be reborn in someone, Zelda's descent and someone with the soul of the chosen hero will fight against that evil.
That means that every Zelda is blood related, but that doesn't mean that every Link is.
Which also explains the Wind Waker. In WW, Hyrul was flooded by the Goddess because the OoT Link didn't exist in that timeline anymore. Zelda sent him back. That also means that the couldn't have any descents, Link from WW isn't related to OoT Link.
OutrageousEmu said:
Yay, thiw is so utterly meaningless and pointleess that it doesn't bear publication.
Why did anyone care? Honestly, why? There is never a noticable progression, technologically or socio-economically, outside of the gimmicky train is Spirit Tracks. There is never any character progression since you'd need, you know, actual characters to do that. It doesn't assist anything, so what is the point of this thing?
You can enjoy the games without knowing even a bit about the timeline.
But if you know the timeline will make you look at some titles from a different angle. Do you really think that A Link to the Past is the same game when you know that Link actually failed in OoT? The title gets automatically heavier and darker just by knowing that.
And why did anyone care? Are you really asking this? This was one of the bigger mysteries in gaming history. Many people always wondered where Zelda games related to each other. And it's also really nice just to read. To know stuff. Some people care because they like they game and everything related to it is interesting to them.
Some care because they grow up with the Legend and they want the mystery solved. Some just want to get over with it.
As long as there are few people that are interested in it, it's worth publication.
I liked it better thinking of it as variations on a myth/legend story than with this attempt for a concrete timeline.
Also, this way, the fact that Tingle reappears in separate Universes is a far more horrifying. If it's a myth, then it's just a weird character being retold. This way, Tingle is some horrifying thing that inevitably occurs and then potentially reoccurs regardless of history.
I'll just stick to the part were every story is a tale told by some grandparent to his/her grandson/-daughter and they have all heard different stories and the story has changed always a bit when traveled from one person to the other.
So every tale is the same tale told by a different person... just like in the real world when someone tells a story!
But of course Link had different adventures.
Like different main vilain in OOT and MM so those are the same link, different adventures.
Stop trying to line them together, just makes my head all achy!
I always enjoyed making fun of people who throw years of their sweat, tears and time into making carefully-researched timelines for a series that only really had one game.
Having said that, it is interesting to note that they managed to pull something out of their arses for this artbook/encyclopedia deal. What I love most about this is the fact that even Nintendo is trying to pretend the CD-i titles never happened.
personally ,i'd like to know HOW exactly link failed to stop ganon in oot. was he killed in the spirit realm? crushed in the falling castle? or did he get to the final battle and take an arrow to the knee? either way, some explanation would be nice
Exactly. Wish they would stop fucking around with this crap and continue the story from Majora's Mask, the only continuation. It would be a shit load more entertaining, believe me.
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