No 'Him' or 'Her' in Preschool. Wait, what?

[Kanlic]

Sorry about your head. Pool tables aren't very forgiving.

First off, It's comforting to know that I'm not the only person who uses the word "pussification". Secondly, I absolutely agree, differences in gender do go far beyond anatomy and genetic construct. Men and women tend to behave and respond to different situations differently from one another. This isn't just because of genetics; gender roles in one form or another have been around for literally tens of thousands of years. You can't just undo stuff that's essentially been hardwired into us since the origins of civilization. Also, is it just me, or does this seem like a huge suppression of individuality. Boys can't be boys, girls can't be girls, we all have to (ominously) be... "friends". *shudder*

But hey, maybe they're just not trying hard enough. Why stop at stories and linguistic syntax? How about making it so the girls aren't allowed to wear dresses and have to wear their hair up to decrease their feminine appearance, and the boys can't wear jeans or clothing with sports logos, soldiers or anything else remotely thought of as masculine. Everyone will then be issued plain unisex clothing and be carefully watched over until finally, blissful equality will be achieved. Wait a minute! I've seen this before. In a game! Hmm, where is it? Oh, yeah:

Spoiler: Just a giant daycare center when you think about it.

Welcome to the future, "friends".

Hate to break it to you, but that stuff already exists

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfmoms/detail?entry_id=89656

 

[Rex Fallout]

Er, what impression? You're a bit vague here.

Sorry, the impression I got from the book was that indeed it was referencing a gender neutral society, or at least something very close to it. Especially when you look at the part of how they raise the children.

This is a particularly lazy straw man. I didn't say that I didn't think Cinderella et al. should not be available; I merely pointed out that not having it when resources are limited does not necessarily count as censorship. Would you think it reasonable if I went to a preschool, didn't find the story about the gay giraffes, and then called out the preschool for censorship and homophobic brainwashing? Egalia most likely argues that society at large will expose children to the standard fairy-tale paradigms enough that they don't need to use up money or shelf space to also teach it there. Again, suggesting that choosing alternative narratives over traditional ones will lead to Brave New World-style censorship is patently absurd, even as slippery-slope arguments go.

I wasn't seriously saying that that the slippery slope argument applied here, (though looking back now I can see how you thought that) I was merely pointing out that it bothers me that these stories were so casually tossed out as unimportant in a child's development. And I seriously doubt this world recession is so terrible that a school can't spend an extra $10 bucks to have the story with gay giraffes as well. But by choosing one over the other it seems like they assume that these children will naturally be straight or gay, (a fact that has not been proven yet) what if by choosing JUST the gay giraffe stories they condition more of these children to be gay than straight? Why can't both types of stories be involved, that way you don't come off on anyone as 'brainwashing' and just come off as educating children about everyone's differences? Seems like a far more logical and smarter path to go down in my honest opinion.

 

[Heartcafe]

Nothing will change that. (unless they get a sex change, but they are preschoolers for heaven sake.) To make choices on sexuality and gender when they are this young is unnecessary.

Well, lets say not everyone agree's with that...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2008623/Girls-young-ONE-forced-sex-change-operations-India.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Is it sad that I wasn't really that shocked by the article? ( I mean, it is shocking that parents are doing this but in this day and age, everything happens -_-) I know in India that the tradition shows that males are favored over females but that is ridiculous.

Ah the world these days :/

 

[Blindswordmaster]

You're not a fucking victim, stop acting like it. "Our society places more advantages for boys than girls, so let's obliterate gender roles." FFFFFFFUU- no, must maintain civility. This isn't the way to go about this. It's like seeking to end racism by obliterating the idea of race. Retarded right? Want to fix society? Make men and women equals, not say there aren't men and women. Gender roles originated from physical differences between males and females. There ARE physical differences between sexes, any 6 year old can tell you that.

like i've said before and i'll say again:

"Egalia doesn't deny the biological differences between boys and girls ? the dolls the children play with are anatomically correct."

it's almost like some people don't read the article before they respond to it.

They gave 6 year olds anatomically correct dolls? That doesn't seem right.

 

[Artina89]

The only way to answer this is... ready for it? "people are idiots"

Over here it's considered racist to say blackboard (Oh, and get this... you all know about black pudding right? probably one of the greatest foods to exist... nope, they are now called blood cakes, seriously, a butcher told me this, that they had to label them as blood cakes now... I mean... seriously?!?! but back on topic) and whiteboard... instead it's chalkboard or drawingboard, people are simply idiots, there is honestly no other way I can think of saying it.

Really? Blood cakes? That sounds really unappetizing. I mean, I know that's what it essentially is, but still... It's like the whole "Rainbow sheep" instead of "Black sheep" debacle, or like the time one of my teachers shouted at me for saying "Brainstorm" when a group I was in was sharing ideas, because a "brain storm" is what happens when people have seizures.

 

[cobra_ky]

Ahh the pussification of our society knows no borders. I hate it when people fail to realize that there are differences in gender, thinking that men and women are the same in every sense but biologically. In terms of legal rights, I'm ok with that idea, but socially the differences are on par with cats and dogs. Guys gravitate to different things than girls, and react differently to situations.

Case and point. One time I was particularly over-served at a friends house. I was sitting on one of those high chairs, the ones that you can put your feet up on, and my friend said I looked a bit pale. On cue I threw up, falling forward off the chair and smacking my head on the pool table in front of me before landing on my face. The boys laughed and the girls screamed.

Sorry about your head. Pool tables aren't very forgiving.

First off, It's comforting to know that I'm not the only person who uses the word "pussification". Secondly, I absolutely agree, differences in gender do go far beyond anatomy and genetic construct. Men and women tend to behave and respond to different situations differently from one another. This isn't just because of genetics; gender roles in one form or another have been around for literally tens of thousands of years. You can't just undo stuff that's essentially been hardwired into us since the origins of civilization.

Yes, you can easily undo that stuff, because those things aren't hardwired at all. Have a racist grandparent? Are their children racist? Are you?

It turns out that it doesn't really matter what kind of society your ancestors were raised in. The culture you're raised in is going to define your values.

Personally, i don't find vomiting or head injury particularly entertaining. i think that says more about Kanlic's friends than it does about men and women as a whole.

Also, is it just me, or does this seem like a huge suppression of individuality. Boys can't be boys, girls can't be girls, we all have to (ominously) be... "friends". *shudder*

it's just you. no one's saying "boys can't be boys" or "girls can't be girls". all they're saying is you don't have to be the boy or girl society expects you to be.

You're not a fucking victim, stop acting like it. "Our society places more advantages for boys than girls, so let's obliterate gender roles." FFFFFFFUU- no, must maintain civility. This isn't the way to go about this. It's like seeking to end racism by obliterating the idea of race. Retarded right? Want to fix society? Make men and women equals, not say there aren't men and women. Gender roles originated from physical differences between males and females. There ARE physical differences between sexes, any 6 year old can tell you that.

like i've said before and i'll say again:

"Egalia doesn't deny the biological differences between boys and girls ? the dolls the children play with are anatomically correct."

it's almost like some people don't read the article before they respond to it.

They gave 6 year olds anatomically correct dolls? That doesn't seem right.

Eh, for all i know that means Barbies. (though i kind of doubt they'd have something that unrealistic at this school.) The point is that no one is suggesting that there aren't differences between biological sexes.

 

[paintman]

I don't think this matters. Calling this a "made up" term is stupid because all words are made up at some point. Otherwise we would all still be banging rocks together.

I believe gender roles AND the idea of gender in general are archaic. They cause people who are a certain sex to feel alienated by their same sex peers if they like things that are stereo-typically enjoyed by a different sex. (keeping in mind that sex, like the idea of gender can be spread across the spectrum from male to female)

 

[SD-Fiend]

words

You may notice I've said several times I want people to choose for themselves what they are, not us label them. Not once have I said people shouldn't be allowed to identify themselves as a sex or gender. If someone feels in their mind they are male, I will call them male. If they feel female, I will call them female. Feel like a male but want to be a girl? I'll call you a girl. Feel like none of them fit? Okay. That's fine. I'll call you intersexed if you don't mind. Don't want that? I'll just go by your name until (if) you ever decide on a title you like. Feel like lots of things? Fine again.

I'm not against people being who they are, be it male, female, both or neither. I'm against telling people what they are and treating them like a sex or gender that we've decided for them, before they've even had to chance to choose for themselves.

People are just people. Be whatever you want. It doesn't matter to me; you'll still be you and I'll treat you the exact same as everyone else.

so if i'm a person but feel like i'm a dog then i'm a dog?