No 'Him' or 'Her' in Preschool. Wait, what?

[Svenparty]

Surely the ingrained "Girls like Pink and Boys like Blue" and accompanying factors are better than completely abolishing the concept of gender with untested ideas. Have children who grow up in a "typical" school all transformed into Charlie Manson wannabes now?.

Overall it's times like this that I'm glad the majority of the world is ignorant.

 

[TheSnarkKnight]

Oh yeah. How very crazy. NOT using third person pronouns that refer specifically to a certain gender. Whatever's next? NOT using second person pronouns that refer specifically to a certain race? I ask you! And how will these kids learn the 'proper' gendered pronouns? It's not like they have a life outside preschool, not like they will notice that the gender neutral pronoun isn't used by their parents, people on TV, or anyone else. Clearly this is going to have some serious, long-term, negative impact!
I mean, seriously, what are these schools thinking? Going out of their way to break the norm! It's the norm for a reason! Maybe kids like having gender roles and heteronormative ideas continually shoved down their throats. And if they don't get it at preschool, where will they get it? It's not as the every other piece of cultural stimulus they are going to receive will be from such a prevelant sexist (and not to mention heteronormative) worldview, that nobody even seems to notice just how fucked up it is.
I mean, seriously, what's up with this place?

 

[Flauros]

Surely the ingrained "Girls like Pink and Boys like Blue" and accompanying factors are better than completely abolishing the concept of gender with untested ideas. Have children who grow up in a "typical" school all transformed into Charlie Manson wannabes now?.

Overall it's times like this that I'm glad the majority of the world is ignorant.

Im actually in FInland right now and it has gender neutral words they use besides "he" and "she". Coincidently , it was the first european country to give women the right to vote, way before America. The english major in my likes to pretend its because their constitution says PEOPLE have the right to vote and be free, not "All Men". lol

And no, not everybody is insane here because they have gender neutral words and women are equal.

 

[Sarah Frazier]

Looking at the picture of the kids... Is that their school uniform to ensure there's no gender difference? I'm hoping the smocks are just there so they're not getting the oversized sweaters dirty and cut down on cleaning, but... Seriously?

I'm all for trying to prevent super-feminists and wife beaters in the future, but trying to force a kid away from what they may well and truly enjoy because "it's a gender stereotype" seems a bit silly to me. Kids with a lot of energy will do things that require a lot of energy whether it's playing tag, climbing trees, or whatever. Kids without as much energy will do other things like play with toys, dig, or read. It's nobody's fault if a boy happens to gravitate towards 'boy' activities, or a girl does the same for 'girl' things. Sometimes it just happens that way, and not much short of brainwashing can prevent that.

 

[Grell Sutcliff]

...............Stockholm is a real place...

I know but it just reminds me of stockholm syndrome and for a school to have the same name is funny in my opinion.

 

[Detective Prince]

-.- While I think children need to be taught tolerance and that not everyone is the same I think this is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[Rex Fallout]

Equality and tolerance should be achieved through education, not ignorance.

This exactly. These 'teachers' are refusing to admit that there are any fundamental differences between males and females- which their are. What are they going to do when they become teenagers and see that the girls in their class suddenly have breasts and they don't? Teach them that everyone is equal, but everyone is different as well. This is complete ignorance on the schools part.

Sounds more like ignorance on your part and poor reading comprehension.

Sounds more like ignorance on your part for poor reading on comments that i've already answered.

 

[Rex Fallout]

Nice hyperbole. It has nothing to do with "backbone", because cultural pressure has nothing to do with courage. That we are moving in the right direction now doesn't mean we are close to reaching a gender neutral society. The easy way to point this out is: How many women doesn't want to be soldiers because it isn't feminine? How many men doesn't want to be nurses because it isn' manly?

While parents have some sway in their childrens upbringing, they are far from the end and all be all. There are plenty of studies that shows that social and pedagogical arenas (preschool, school and other activities like sports or dancing) are just as important in shaping a childs future perceptions of the world. Children are quick to percieve if they are considered a boy or a girl and how they are expected to act, while parents can counter act this to some degree they are not entirely capable of preventing it.

As for the litterature, you are completely missing my point. I am not saying we should PC every single book in the world and retcon out all the violence in history. There comes a time when you'll be able to read on your own just for fun, at which point you are free to read whatever you want. It is a part of your personal freedom to do so. But the entire god damn point of a children's book is to not only be amusing but also to be pedagogic. While old stories might be good from a purely narrative perspective, they are usually ripe with outdated moral "lessons". By reading them to the children you are also teaching the children such ideals that men must be strong and silent and women should be pretty and take care of the home. It has absolutely nothing to do with whatever or not Asimov or Rand are good authors.

Just as a closing note: Egalia bases its' didactic principles on sound scientific research. These preschool teachers are not pulling their pedagogic ideas out of their ass, but have identified a weakness in modern preschools. It has nothing to do with "How they think it is", but rather how it is scientifically proven that it is. Your ideas about the parents roles and gender equality run directly contrary to how the latest research in those areas claims it is. But it will be fun to see you misinterpreting and twisting my arguments again.

Why would we want a 'gender neutral' society anyways? If everyone is simply seen as equal why go the extra step to destroy culture? When I read things like this I just think of 'brave new world' style of things where everyone is 'technically' equal, there pretty much is gender neutrality, everyone has sex simply to have sex with whoever they want whenever they want and all individuality has all but disappeared. Shakespeare no longer exists, all of the works we consider classics are gone. I do not want this society.

I have been twisting your arguments, I simply see them the way you present them and fight them because of what they bring to mind. You say that these books enforce these ideas on children? Ridiculous, they no more do that than me reading the Fountainhead enforces the idea that I should rape a beautiful woman if I find her alone in her house. Many of the things we do as children are temporary. Some things arent, but alot of it is. I am nothing like child I was all those years ago, I have never wanted to be the 'strong silent type' you claim children emulate after because of these books. I see nothing wrong with American Esque society today, (well on the large part) everyone can be whatever they damn well want to be. Period. You want to be gay? Be gay. You want to be an astronaut? Be an astronaut. You want to be president? Well then go ahead and run and lets see what happens.

 

[Nudu]

Political correctness gone mad?

 

[Myrl]

Okay I'm going to go out on a limb here so bear with me. First off, equality of any kind in physical reality has such a small occurance that it might as well not exist. It is a utopian idea that many rightfully strive for but in doing so, destroy it. The solution is to accept that noone is the same, therefore equally different. That should be what is taught to everyone when they come to the age to actually care enough to ask. NOT EARLIER. That is all. Myrl out.

 

[YesIPlayTheBagpipes]

even i'm pretty left-wing but come on! what about the gingerbread man? or the enourmous turnip? what's wrong with those kind of stories. why do these people feel the need to prepare kids to come to terms with things they do not even understand? children take the world at face value, if people end up racist and bigoted it's because they grew up with racist and bigoted parents, no amount of gay giraffes can solve that.

 

[Flauros]

"Lego bricks and other building blocks are intentionally placed next to the kitchen, to make sure the children draw no mental barriers between cooking and construction."

encouraging play and construction in a room filled with sharp metal things hot foods and hot liquids ... oh that wont end badly at all.

lol im pretty sure they dont let the kids play and cook in a REAL kitchen

 

[Flauros]

That's from the article the OP referenced. The ignorance in this case is coming from the people who think that Egalia is trying to achieve some kind of radicalfeminist brainwashing.

I was exaggerating, sorry for you not picking that up. What I find wrong with this is that you are messing with mere children during a time when their individuality is not yet fully developed. They are brainwashing children and trying to teach people that, "Cinderella is bad, story about two guy giraffes good." Is that not brain washing? I played with cars all the time when I was a kid, but I know nothing about cars today because that isn't something that interests me. At all. I know many girls who, when they were toddlers, ran around playing house and play cooking, who turned into very different individuals. But I suppose it doesn't matter. In theory this should mean nothing, who we are as children and who we are as adults are many times very, very different, so in the long run these children could grow up to fulfill the very stereotypes that the school is trying so hard to erase.

You really think the story of Cinderalla is SO IMPORTANT, if they dont tell it, theyre brainwashing? Its really not that an important story. Letting children decide what toys to play with and how they want to play is the very OPPOSITE of brainwashing. Pretty much anything thats different then how youre use to things being is considered brainwashing, no doubt. Things don't have to be exactly the same, you only think that because thats the way you were raised.

Or "brainwashed", as you put it.

And your communication skills are your own fault, not anyone elses.

 

[martin's a madman]

And they wonder why kids are acting worse and worse. They are PRESCHOOLERS! They shouldn't be taught about homesexuality and adoption or anything like that until they start asking questions about it which probably won't be for years. Let kids be kids for heavens sake!

Kids aren't getting worse and worse, what makes you think they are? I've hear people say this frequently, but they never actually say what about kids is getting worse; they usually quote some personal experience story, but they can't support these claims.

There isn't anything wrong with teaching kids about homosexuality or adoption, these are things that exist. Teaching them that homosexuality exists won't somehow take away their childhood innocence. If they can handle the mental strain that knowing about heterosexual relationships exist, they can handle knowing homosexual ones exist too..

Of course they can but heterosexual relationships aren't taught are they? I have no problem with them knowing about it but them being taught is a bit too far. Teaching them is making a big deal out of it which really doesn't need to happen. All that needs to be said to a child is a parent going 'sometimes a kid may have two mums or two dads and that's perfectly normal like having a mum and a dad'. That's it really. Anything more just raises questions. They acknowledge that hetero relationships exist but they don't know any other information about it and from the sounds of it they're being taught more than they really need to know at that age.

And with the kids being worse and worse thing it's because of the world they're growing up in. Not being allowed to say him or her is just one example of political correctness going too far and it's only making kids act up more.

Ah, I think I misunderstood you originally. I thought you meant to ignore homosexual relationships altogether, but it seems you're being fair in your treatment to both lifestyles.
My mistake.

 

[The_Graff]

hear that rustling in the wind? it is the sound of a million 'Daily Telegraphs' being shaken in anger.

 

[Zanakanishi]

The only way to answer this is... ready for it? "people are idiots"

Over here it's considered racist to say blackboard (Oh, and get this... you all know about black pudding right? probably one of the greatest foods to exist... nope, they are now called blood cakes, seriously, a butcher told me this, that they had to label them as blood cakes now... I mean... seriously?!?! but back on topic) and whiteboard... instead it's chalkboard or drawingboard, people are simply idiots, there is honestly no other way I can think of saying it.

 

[Flauros]

-.- While I think children need to be taught tolerance and that not everyone is the same I think this is the wrong way to go about it.

The other day I was sat with my 8 year old little brother whom I am legal guardian for. I was watching Wife Swap and he came sat down with me it was an episode were instead of a woman, a gay man had been sent to a traditional house. So my brother asks me.

Him: Is that man supposed to be the wife?
Me: Yea, some men are born wanting to love a man instead of a woman. And in fact, some women love women instead of men.
Him: Why?
Me: Oh they can't really help it. It's like you were made to prefer chocolate cake whereas I don't like chocolate cake. It'd all be boring if we liked the same things.
Him: Do I have to be that way too?
Me: No, you tend to know if you're that way. There's nothing wrong with him, it's just what he wants.

And thus my brother was taught about homosexuality. You see you don't have to ENFORCE it into children at all from a young age. Preschool is too young to teach kids these sorts of things anyway. They just can't comprehend it.

Good comment. Look everybody, read this! lol

But one thing i suspect, though. How can a school thats gender neutral, have nothing but gay characters in their books?
I think someone misinterpreted it, and that all the characters in books are GENDER NEUTRAL couples. Thus making them "same sex" i suppose...

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Nearly all the children's books deal with homosexual couples, single parents or adopted children.

Whhhhhat? Since when did the Bearnstein Bears and Arthur become homosexual couples?

 

[silent_noir_67]

taking this a step too far I think...

I was 2 years old (too young for any real "gender role assignment" to have been presented much less absorbed) and I loved trucks and heavy construction equipment...It wasnt that I had been told by teachers that it was wrong, it was just something I loved.

Boys and Girls will develop different interests regardless of whether you call people "friend" or "him/her". I think that this is more or less doing exactly what the article says and emasculating men. Girls? keep playing with your dolls. boys? PLAY WITH THE DAMN DOLLS!

They're going to be exposed to whole different world of media when they actually get older.

I'm all for making people tolerant but let kids be kids.

 

[XHolySmokesX]

Nothing will change that. (unless they get a sex change, but they are preschoolers for heaven sake.) To make choices on sexuality and gender when they are this young is unnecessary.

Well, lets say not everyone agree's with that...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2008623/Girls-young-ONE-forced-sex-change-operations-India.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

OT: Getting rid of sexual borders is not the way to encourage equality, it encourages dissimilarity. You want the next generation to learn that everyone has the freedom to be whoever they want to be, not that everyone is the same.

When i was in primary school i was mates with a couple kids of other races, but at that age it didn't even occour to me that they were other races, they were just other kids to me. maybe i was an innocent, ignorant child, but i only clocked on to the whole racism thing when i was exposed to it in society.

If we want to achieve equality in society it's our responsibility to not make it a big deal, rather than obviously going to the extreme to teach kids about something they're not even aware of.