No matter how open-minded...

[CManator]

...you try to be, there's always that one thing you can't wrap your head around.

For me, it's people who aren't moved by music, people who are fine with listening to the radio or club music because it's easy to dance to or it's simple, people who don't go looking for music that inspires them or brings out all manner of emotion/feeling to the surface (be it joy, excitement, anger, passion etc). These are the things I can't accept/understand, no matter how wide I open my mind.

So what's your one thing that you can't grasp?

I'm the opposite. I don't understand people who claim that music has had a major impact on their lives. I understand that it can stir emotions, and there are certainly many songs I can't help bobbing my head to, I also understand that there are songs that can touch your heart or relate to a personal experience. I get why music is enjoyable to nearly everybody.

But I fail to understand how people can say "This song changed my life" or "I would have killed my self if it hadn't been for music" (Both actual statements made by irl friends) Did they really think nobody has ever gone through what they did or felt how they did at some point? And what happens when they find that a lot of music was specifically designed to stir said emotions, not to touch your heart or anything noble like that, but to sell copies. Boy bands are the most blatant example but hardly the only one.

BUT I do know why I fail to understand such things. Good music can make an activity more enjoyable, but to me it's not an activity in itself. I've never once thought, "Man you know what would cure my boredom right now? Music." For me, music has never been anything more than a supplement. A background to whatever else is going on. I hope this makes sense, even if it's not the opinion of the majority. And perhaps somebody can help me understand how music (regardless of genre) can play such a major role in their lives.

 

[Neaco]

Stupid people, how can they be so bloody stupid?

other than birth defects

scientific answer: the brain and nervous system houses trillions of neurons and thought is transmitted as a chemical from thousands of neurons to thousands of neurons. frequently transmitted signals pass faster through neurons which leads to learning. when a signal reaches the brain, it goes to the specific cluster of neurons that analyze that type of signal (senses, emotions, memories.) having less or inhibited neurons (chemically, genetically, environmentally) results in slower or weak signals sent to the brain, leading to failure to comprehend.

social answer: going along with my above answer, some people as a culture think differently. for instance, in asian schools, emphasis is placed on memorization which leads to better math, history, and science scores. some people simply are not conditioned to think the same as another and that results in slower or inability to comprehend.

 

[Sight Unseen]

You are getting further and further away from any realistic point of view with every post. I'll let this one be the last one between you and me, because I just had to remind myself of an old lesson I once had to learn. "Don't argue with pro-religious people. It's pretty much the same as knocking down a brick wall with your forehead. It'll get you nowhere, but give you a headache and most likely make you dumber."

I'm agnostic. But I won't continue this conversation. We both tire of it and it isn't going anywhere, anyway. Thank you for ending it.

I just have one more quick thing to say about this and then I'm done. You seem to mis-understand the use of the words "agnostic" and "atheist". The two are not two parts of the same spectrum, and agnostic is not a less extreme form of atheism, they are two completely different things.

Agnostic- "A-gnostic" comes from the "gnostic" which means to know. So if you are gnostic (I hate that word, sounds so awkward), then you know something to be true. If you are agnostic then you don't know if something is true or not.

Atheist- "A-theist" - Theist means to believe in a God or higher power. A-theist means that you lack belief in a higher power. This also doesn't necessarily mean that you lack belief in ALL Gods. A christian is theist towards the biblical god, but atheist towards all the other gods. Generally though, the term atheist is for someone who lacks belief in any currently established god.

These two terms can be put together. You can be a gnostic theist, where you know for sure that your god exists; an agnostic theist, where you believe in your God, but you don't know for sure whether it exists or not; an agnostic atheist (me) who lacks belief in any gods, but doesn't know for sure whether a God exists or not; or a gnostic atheist, who knows that no gods can exist.

Most "atheists" that I have met are agnostic atheists, as you appear to be aswell.

I hope this clarifies some things for you. Thanks for a good civil discussion, it's been a while for me

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

There are just two things I cant stand, People who are intolerant of other peoples races & beliefs, and the dutch.

JUDO CHOP!

Have you got any idea how many anonymous henchmen I've killed over the years?

 

[Fanfic_warper]

For me, it's people who aren't moved by music, people who are fine with listening to the radio or club music because it's easy to dance to or it's simple, people who don't go looking for music that inspires them or brings out all manner of emotion/feeling to the surface (be it joy, excitement, anger, passion etc). These are the things I can't accept/understand, no matter how wide I open my mind.
So what's your one thing that you can't grasp?

For me, I can't quite grasp the significance of music just at all. I like christmas carols, but that's about it, and more than once at school it's gotten me verbally assaulted by the band nerds.

Band nerds are also up there. I'm sorry, like the title says, I try to be open minded...but man they get weird sometimes (or it might just be the ones at my old high school). Mention the wrong song or wrong musician and you may as well crucify yourself.

 

[Aprilgold]

I don't understand people that commit crime.

Exactly, especially to where all it takes now is one finger print and your caught, the risk / reward is way too high, and goes over the reward. Seriously, hold up a bank. You have about one day if you survive to spend that money.

I don't understand people who do things 'out of the goodness of their heart'. There's no profit for the doer, unless the doer has the ideas of favours in mind, it just seems illogical to me.

Point is to just be a good person. Its like if you find a wallet with 5$ in it, and a ID and Credit Card. Do you take the wallet or return it to the person? Sure you could spend the money, but you would be a dick for it. Even the chance for reward is there. I don't go around doing all the littler favors, but doing them just means that your more caring about others then yourself, which is still good.

Its just common, I don't tell my best friend to fuck off if he asks for help for looking for his phone.

I can't wrap my head around people who bash people's beliefs. If they reject religion, that's fine with me. If they deny it, okay. But to simply talk down about religion isn't cool.

They get on religious people for believing in a God yet do not ever talk amongst themselves about just particular people. As in- they group everyone who's say.. a Christian like me and call out my religion that I am barbarous, one that shuns others and burns innocent people on stakes. In truth, people have done that in the past but that was their own motives. I'm a Christian that accepts and enjoys opinions of all sorts. Yet, opinions do not mean you can bash on something without consideration of that 'other sided story' most overlook.

Lets think of religion as the Face of a company, its the mascot. And the company is a dick, constantly telling people that they can't marry X or be happy with Mr Y. Constantly killing those who don't believe what they believe, and in many cases just rejecting their own evil as if it were some divine intervention. Sure the workers for the companies might not be dicks, but the face of it as a whole is a cutesy wrapper around a gun.

Looking at a minority to judge a majority is a terrible idea, its like saying all Islams are Muslim Extremists, your judging the whole majority from a minority. You can believe what you want, I haven no problem with what you do with your time, but when I object religion, I'm not objecting the followers, I'm objecting to the source.

Religous followers all around are like sheep, following a leader, in which case can be any god or book telling about the god. Their just doing what their told / what they believe, its not the people that I don't like, its the person who led the people there.

Bashing religion is something that I must spoiler because I don't want to end up hurting some peoples feelings, I'll just put it below spoilered, in case you want to hear my thoughts on it.

Spoiler

Religion is a evil bastard, leading people away from reality and lying to them about fixing their problems. Killed thousands, started hundreds of campaigns to just kill others. Hell, Hitler was a christian, in fact, in World War 2 the Christian Church helped more Nazis then anybody else.

Religion has led, time and time again, for people to be complete assholes to other humans over simple facts. "Your gay? Well then I fucking hate you mother fucker." 'Oh, you don't believe in god, then your satan.' "Your going to hell for sins." ETC. The bible is so fucking old, so bloody old. Its a sin to not listen to the men for you ladies out there, its also a sin, ladies, to not put out to a man whenever he wishes when married. Its a sin to wear mixed fabrics and its a sin to not believe what you believe. The list is giant but many times, as you can tell, the bible isn't exactly up-to-date on womens rights or the LGBT act, is it? That and a majority of Christians act like their depraved, hurt minority who needs help. Hell no, your 78% of the US's religious population, and your just trying to force others to join you. Complaining that the president doesn't thank your god in particular, complaining about saying "Happy Holidays" and objecting LGBT acts, also picketing funerals and you see where I'm going with this.

I know I've thrown out some harsh words, and if your offended I humbly apologize, but, lets face it, you can believe what you wish to believe and I will trust what I think. Science is a *****, she is cold hard fact, it doesn't matter how beautiful a theory may be, or might be, if its wrong, it is wrong.

I am honestly sorry if I did offend you at any point in this post, I just wanted to shed some light to try and widen your understanding a bit. Also, have you read the bible in a while?

Just responses down below in spoiler definition.

Spoiler

Skyrim fanboys, and especially the ones who spam the "I took an arrow in the knee" meme everywhere. And I mean everywhere. You can't find a single Youtube video without a variation on the meme. Even on videos that aren't even related to Skyrim. I know that fanboys sometimes take their obsession too far, but an entire fanbase all doing it at once? That's just... totally ridiculous. It wasn't even that funny in the game.

Also, a game shouldn't qualify as "perfect" when it has multiple game-breaking bugs.

Skyrim is the biggest band wagon in the fucking world. Its now bigger then Modern Warfare 3. It has such a fucking big fan base that it will overlook any flaws within itself just due to the overall package being better then Oblivion. It reminds me of a certain group of people who can't keep a book up to times.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

The idea that Rick Perry can dress himself.

 

[acsoundwave]

Oh, Descartes, you and your hypothetical demon. Of course, the problem with that idea is that saying "We may never know!" and dropping the subject is pretty much impossible for our species. We're just so bloody curious.

That's Pascal, not Descartes.

I'm not sure of the reason for most Christians (because for most of the western world, Christianity is the main religion the Internet has opted to scorn), but for black Americans at least, Christianity--or what we call "the Church"--is more than simple comfort.

Religion gave our ancestors fortitude to survive the evils of slavery. It was a place of cultural support: a virtual Wakanda in a hostile, post-Civil War, Jim Crow era, KKK-infested, unsympathetic/apathetic white man-ruled United States.

Religion gave the world Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., just as much as it gave the world Osama Bin Laden.

On the flipside: empirical, rational secular inquiry built the modern world. It gave me the computer I'm typing on, the glasses I wear to see what I'm typing. We know so much more, and we've unlocked even more mysteries, by being able to question what we believe to be true. Thus, I understand why a given atheist or agnostic will fight adherence to what they perceive as blind dogma: as far as they are concerned, religion stands between humanity and progress.

My thought is that any ideas humans have can be used to manipulate, control, and coerce others--period. You have good ideas, and evil ideas, and stupid ideas, and crazy ideas. Ideas do not go away, no matter how illogical or stupid they are. Ideas can be discredited, but that's about it.

What I don't understand, then, is the compulsion of a given person to get bent out of shape when another person has an idea (opinion/belief) that differs from theirs in the slightest. This goes for the religious as well as the agnostic.

It also applies to politics, and I get more irritated when political sides are demonized than when religion is bashed: US politics have a greater direct impact on our lives than, say, whatever the fudge Fred Phelps calls Christianity. Republicans and Democrats: each party has good ideas mixed in with their crappy ones, but the only way for we the people to filter them out is to actually listen to both sides. We can't do that when Team Babar screams about God, guns and liberals, while Team Baba Louie rants about global warming, gay marriage, and conservatives.

 

[Substitute Troll]

I can't wrap my head around people who bash people's beliefs. If they reject religion, that's fine with me. If they deny it, okay. But to simply talk down about religion isn't cool.

They get on religious people for believing in a God yet do not ever talk amongst themselves about just particular people. As in- they group everyone who's say.. a Christian like me and call out my religion that I am barbarous, one that shuns others and burns innocent people on stakes. In truth, people have done that in the past but that was their own motives. I'm a Christian that accepts and enjoys opinions of all sorts. Yet, opinions do not mean you can bash on something without consideration of that 'other sided story' most overlook.

I've got one question for you.

Have you ever read the bible?

 

[kickyourass]

A bit immature I'll admit, but green beans, I have no clue how anyone can bring themselves to eat green beans. They are literally the worst tasting vegetable I've ever eaten.

Also Madden games, how the hell does that work? I understand why someone would buy one football video game, presumably because they like football, but how the hell do Madden games sell as well as they do year after year? Am I just missing something? Does EA send you a number of hookers that depends on how many consecutive years you've bought?

 

[Sight Unseen]

...you try to be, there's always that one thing you can't wrap your head around.

For me, it's people who aren't moved by music, people who are fine with listening to the radio or club music because it's easy to dance to or it's simple, people who don't go looking for music that inspires them or brings out all manner of emotion/feeling to the surface (be it joy, excitement, anger, passion etc). These are the things I can't accept/understand, no matter how wide I open my mind.

So what's your one thing that you can't grasp?

I'm the opposite. I don't understand people who claim that music has had a major impact on their lives. I understand that it can stir emotions, and there are certainly many songs I can't help bobbing my head to, I also understand that there are songs that can touch your heart or relate to a personal experience. I get why music is enjoyable to nearly everybody.

But I fail to understand how people can say "This song changed my life" or "I would have killed my self if it hadn't been for music" (Both actual statements made by irl friends) Did they really think nobody has ever gone through what they did or felt how they did at some point? And what happens when they find that a lot of music was specifically designed to stir said emotions, not to touch your heart or anything noble like that, but to sell copies. Boy bands are the most blatant example but hardly the only one.

BUT I do know why I fail to understand such things. Good music can make an activity more enjoyable, but to me it's not an activity in itself. I've never once thought, "Man you know what would cure my boredom right now? Music." For me, music has never been anything more than a supplement. A background to whatever else is going on. I hope this makes sense, even if it's not the opinion of the majority. And perhaps somebody can help me understand how music (regardless of genre) can play such a major role in their lives.

Well, I personally wouldn't say that music has ever changed my life or stopped me from killing myself, but it has had a profound effect on my life. Music is a part of almost everything I do, it's shaped my personality, my outlook on the world, even my politics. It's made me laugh hysterically, it's made me cry, and it's made me incredibly mad.

As just a single example, this is my favourite song in the world right now:


This song made me cry the first few times I heard it, espescially with the video, and I dont cry often at all. If you've ever been bullied in school, espescially over being gay or people thinking you were gay, then this song should inspire intense emotion, it did for me, as well as for one of my friends who also cried when I showed him this song because one of his cousins commited suicide over something similar. Anyway, enjoy.

 

[Monty McDougal]

People who have absolutely no idea about science and say that it completely disproves religion. BTW, a majority of scientific theories are always disproved in a generation or two. And every generation thinks that they are 100% right.

No Idea why I'm posting this here, it has no relevance what soever, it just seemed oddly appropriate.

I see your point and agree that many religious people do take this part far. I appreciate you not just calling me a barbaric zealot and being civil about this.

 

[mrscott137]

Basically anyone who is resistant to a good change, or prefers tradition because that's what people do/did so don't question it. So basically right wing, racist, homophobic, techno-phobic, religious or anyone who cannot accept that the times are changing and always will change. Oh that and people who are bad/annoying for no reason and/or people who commit crime.

 

[PhantomEcho]

This is turning into something that looks like a flame war. Hm, I for some reason, love reading all these comments regarding religion. I'm constantly trying to find new arguments made between theists and atheists. so far it's getting good

look... whats the point? All the debate boils down to is points that are so insanely subjective that it becomes a waste of time even attempting to use one of them as an argument. The arguments overlap each other, canceling each other out because they have little to no bearing on solid logic and reason. The only bearing they truly have are their significance to the person using the arguments "This value is more important then that value" kind of thing. How it feels to you. It becomes an opinion, and nothing more.

Religion isn't the cause of millions of deaths, it's us. We created religion. blame the people using it for selfish reasons instead of the religion itself. Religion is a blank slate, and like many other things, it can be morphed in ways that can benefit, or hurt others. We should be using it for the betterment of society, but there are a lot of people who use and abuse religion to insane levels. We are the most advanced species on the planet, and yet we are scared religion (to clarify, the extreme kind) will corrupt us all.

Now... if any escapist wishes to, reply on my stance. Would like to here if I've missed a point, or something is off. I'd also like to know if you disagree. Don't hold back

I've read through this entire thread, now...

... and every time I saw one of these folks bring up religion, I cringed. Religious folks, and I say this referring to -real- religious folks... not the kind that talk the good talk and then go on to use their faith to justify bigotry and persecution by treating anyone that disagrees like an uncivilized barbarian, are generally good folks. They're not deluded. They're not idiots. They're not whack jobs. They're people who believe in something because they cannot fathom things working in a different way.

I often tell people who talk to me in a civilized manner about religion that "Yes, I believe in a God. But -my- God was a scientist".

I also suspect that we were once infinitely more civilized and advanced technologically than we are now... but I don't try to ramrod that suspicion down anyone else's throat just like I wouldn't want someone to impose their faith upon me. It's good to have things to believe in. Folks can talk all they want about 'weak wills needing faith'... but faith comes from WITHIN. We have the propensity for it, because we are programmed to. Because we're wired to believe in things... to see things... to try to make meaningful connections.

For some people that's cold, hard rationality. For others... it's mysticism and belief and magic. And you know what? That's GREAT! It's a wonderful thing! It's a great big, amazing universe we live in... and if you can't cope with the scope or the size or the reality... than I don't care WHAT you have to think. Go right on ahead and think it. Because there's so much of it, if you don't want to be crushed under the weight of it all... I don't blame you.

But me, I love to absorb myself in it. I study religions. I study doctrine, and philosophy. They're all tools of the human mind.


And what I don't... what I can't... what I -refuse- to justify with thought... is the idea that people are so willfully ignorant that they can't see the roles that these things play. We don't need to abolish faith to allow reason to expand and grow. We don't need every person who THINKS to find faith.

What we need are people who know how to put their differences aside and COMMUNICATE.

All the logic, all the faith, all the understanding in the universe won't make up for the failures of communication which currently lead us down a dark road to our ultimate demise.

So hey! While the atheists and the Christians and the Muslims and the Jews... while the Scientologists and the Quakers and the... er... 'isms' over there in Asia... while all those folks' loud, obnoxious cousins are busy duking it out over the age of the world... let's find some fellow minds with a SMALL spark of imagination left in 'em, and get to work on LEAVING this damn rock! We need to get out there, and we need to make it a priority. We're squandering resources at far too great a rate to justify dragging our feet now.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Oh, Descartes, you and your hypothetical demon. Of course, the problem with that idea is that saying "We may never know!" and dropping the subject is pretty much impossible for our species. We're just so bloody curious.

That's Pascal, not Descartes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon

In his 1641 Meditations on First Philosophy, René Descartes hypothesises the existence of an evil demon, a personification who is "as clever and deceitful as he is powerful, who has directed his entire effort to misleading me." The evil demon presents a complete illusion of an external world, including other people, to Descartes' senses, where in fact there is no such external world in existence. The evil genius also presents to Descartes' senses a complete illusion of his own body, including all bodily sensations, when in fact Descartes has no body.

I'm not even sure which Pascal argument you mean. Link plz?

 

[viking97]

well, in the area of objective fact i might try to correct you.

Ah, but this is my point. Is the existence of God not an objective question? Even if you were an agnostic (or a "weak" atheist) and thought you could never know what it is, certainly you would think there's a fact of the matter. And since you seem to be of the opinion that God does not exist, then I'd assume you think you have good reasons to believe that. So if that's all true, then someone who believes in God is wrong in the exact same way that they would be wrong to think that sin(pi/2) is 0. It would be a simple matter of showing them their error, then.

...Unless there's more to this God thing?

people tend to become rather resistant to fact in the areas where god is concerned. overall its more effort then its worth.

 

[winginson]

People who lack the willpower or self-restraint to not give in to their base desires.

While there are many forms of this, my example will be of something going around my social group at the moment. There are alot of girls going "I love my bf, but I met this other guy and I just couldn't stop myself cheating. My relationship is in tatters so feel sorry for me". I understand how even when in a happy relationship you can find another person physically and mentally attractive. I just don't get how people can be so weak as to give in to their base desires even when they know they shouldn't.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

It's because tattoos can have a distinct purpose, it could be a reminder of a loved one you've lost. Cosmetic surgery and dying your hair just seems to me like you're so ashamed of your body that you need to somehow change it.

Any body modification falls under the same spectrum for me. I'm sure all those tribal tattoos floating around on various biceps and lower backs mean a great deal to their wearer. Just like switching genders (a cosmetic surgery) correct whatever oversight certain people feel they need to overcome.

I live in a fairly heavily tattoo'd city, and the vast majority is for show. Far be it from me to suggest *not* to permanently scar their skin with ink to constantly remind them of an emotional torment everyone will have to visually endure.