No Right Answer: Is Game of Thrones Overrated?
- Thread starter Firefilm
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I completely agree with the structure issues. Now excuse me while I sit back with popcorn and watch Fanboy heads explode like firework on the 4th of Joo-Lye! Upon close examination, I think I have gotten the most enjoyment from the casting. I love being able to point at an actor, announce his character's name, and almost always have it be spot on.
Your argument is pretty rock solid there Chris, I don't even have anything to say in the show's defense, damn.
Your argument is pretty rock solid there Chris, I don't even have anything to say in the show's defense, damn.
I've never understood the popularity of the show. I've managed to sit through the first three or four episodes and i just can't bring myself to endure anymore. The story seems, to me, ridiculous with a focus on too many characters that seem to have nothing to do with one another; as for the sex scenes, while interesting at first, they serve no purpose and are just a mindless distraction (which seems to be the one thing keeping some of my mates coming back to the show).
I can understand that the show may deal with some interesting things but the way the fantasy/drama theme thing (what is this show actually about) is introduced is just confusing, and kinda left me bored.
That's my nonsense rant out of the way, I'm going to go and hide in the corner now before the fans jump on me.
I can understand that the show may deal with some interesting things but the way the fantasy/drama theme thing (what is this show actually about) is introduced is just confusing, and kinda left me bored.
That's my nonsense rant out of the way, I'm going to go and hide in the corner now before the fans jump on me.
Chris is wrong and a Hipster.
More detailed response. Chris can't handle complexity "Is it drama? is it political intrigue? oh wait dragons I SO CONFOOSED"
Also, you can't keep up with the character names? Boo hoo for you, I have this remarkable ability called "paying attention". Can you name all the characters from The Wire? I doubt it.
I suppose one point I can concede is that GoT does have too much sex and some of it feels just added for the sake of it.
Someone make Chris watch Game of Thrones again as punishment for his hubris
More detailed response. Chris can't handle complexity "Is it drama? is it political intrigue? oh wait dragons I SO CONFOOSED"
Also, you can't keep up with the character names? Boo hoo for you, I have this remarkable ability called "paying attention". Can you name all the characters from The Wire? I doubt it.
I suppose one point I can concede is that GoT does have too much sex and some of it feels just added for the sake of it.
Someone make Chris watch Game of Thrones again as punishment for his hubris
I can only speak for the quality of the books which are pretty good. As for the show, the reason I never got into it is because I don't have HBO and I already have plenty of television shows to watch on netflix. That said, I would like to give it a shot, but it just isn't worth the price tag. Now I'm going to sit back and relax while everyone who believes that the show is somehow transcendent when it's primary claim to fame is an abundance of mammaries and death.
Did you really just criticise a show for having characters and scenes that were written by a person? Because that seems a bit... odd, to say the least. I mean, "they're only doing that because they were written that way" is true of all fiction, it doesn't take away from any impact or significance or whatever you might draw from it, surely?
While I do think the books are better, the show has its merits. Though I rather dislike the design of the Dothraki (in the series).
Anyway, mostly I hear you don't like the pacing. You should understand that as of now there are 5, and there should be 7 in total and that by the end of the first season is basically a preface, a setup for things to come.
The next issue would be the switching around between characters. It's mostly used to build suspense arcs, for just when you want something to be resolved, it switches to another seemingly unrelated character, which for the most part and as of book 5 ties the story together.
Winter is coming...and it is indeed, but even in book 5 it hasn't arrived quite yet. It refers to the inevitability of it's return and on some level of the stoic nature of the Stark family and the north in general.
Quite frankly, I much prefer the Realpolitik of the characters in their drive for power than the fantastical and magical elements of the story which seem mostly to serve as some foreshadowing of an impending clash between dragons and white walkers, though that's fine. That should be quite interesting as well.
Anyway, mostly I hear you don't like the pacing. You should understand that as of now there are 5, and there should be 7 in total and that by the end of the first season is basically a preface, a setup for things to come.
The next issue would be the switching around between characters. It's mostly used to build suspense arcs, for just when you want something to be resolved, it switches to another seemingly unrelated character, which for the most part and as of book 5 ties the story together.
Winter is coming...and it is indeed, but even in book 5 it hasn't arrived quite yet. It refers to the inevitability of it's return and on some level of the stoic nature of the Stark family and the north in general.
Quite frankly, I much prefer the Realpolitik of the characters in their drive for power than the fantastical and magical elements of the story which seem mostly to serve as some foreshadowing of an impending clash between dragons and white walkers, though that's fine. That should be quite interesting as well.
The only good point he made was the amount of sex, which I think has been toned down in the last two seasons.
On the other hand, not being able to follow the show is a problem on his part, not the show. Yes, it involves many different story lines, some of which are political, some are interpersonal, some are fantastical, some are epic battles. There are tons of characters and it is confusing to keep track of the relationships all of the characters have, because they keep changing. Political alliances come and go. It is hard to tell who is a bad guy and who is the good guys some of the time. That's one of the show's strengths, not weaknesses.
On the other hand, not being able to follow the show is a problem on his part, not the show. Yes, it involves many different story lines, some of which are political, some are interpersonal, some are fantastical, some are epic battles. There are tons of characters and it is confusing to keep track of the relationships all of the characters have, because they keep changing. Political alliances come and go. It is hard to tell who is a bad guy and who is the good guys some of the time. That's one of the show's strengths, not weaknesses.
The statement isn't used that much in the show, first of all. Second, it's not even used for ACTUAL winter. It's meant to foreshadow other, terrible things. It's also meant to characterize the Stark family and differentiate the northerners from those who live elsewhere.SilverStuddedSquirre said:
OK for everyone here about to debate Chris. I am going to summarize his points here so we can collectively thrash him in an eloquent debate.Hope it helps, and look below for my points/counter points
Chris' points
- Constant switching between fantasy and political thriller leading to a lack of focus
- Takes too long for payoff
- Too many characters/names to remember (lots of old white dudes)
- Red Wedding being a disappointment because characters were inactive until then.
- Bewbs and gratuitous sex scenes
My points
- The reason GoT is such a hit is because of it's writing. You may say that it seems disjointed and lacking focus but its the subtelties in the characters and their interactions that are the most interesting. Beyond that you need to look at character development. There are not a lot of shows that can completely transform a character from a monster (ie Jamie Lannister) into something more sympathetic (I call it reverse Walter Whiting)
- Really Chris? You're gonna use Heroes as a counter point? After the 1st season of Heroes how was it? Maybe if they took a little longer to save the damn cheerleader the show wouldn't have gone down the drain in quality after 1 freaking season.
- ...Not gonna argue with point 3. It's best to have a character map or family tree infront of you
- The Red wedding is great because it completely defies the Star Wars character law: when you have more than 2 main characters in 1 area you know everything is going to be alright. Beyond that it was great because A it was unexpected for those who weren't familiar with the books and B it has far reaching implications into the rest of the show. Lastly, Chris I just have a feeling you were disappointed because of the hype and the fact that everyone was talking about it. You went in knowing something was going to happen and thus it detracted from the overall excitement.
- There's actually quite a good amount of sex in the books and granted some of the sex in the show is gratuitous but if you look at Daneyrs and her scenes, she essentially goes from timid young woman to badass Mother of Dragons. Her character development actually is represented well in those scenes. Look beyond the flesh my friend.
My final point and one that you "conveniently" left out. ONE BAD ASS IMP. Tyrion is amazing, and Peter Dinklage owns the screen when he's on it.
Chris' points
- Constant switching between fantasy and political thriller leading to a lack of focus
- Takes too long for payoff
- Too many characters/names to remember (lots of old white dudes)
- Red Wedding being a disappointment because characters were inactive until then.
- Bewbs and gratuitous sex scenes
My points
- The reason GoT is such a hit is because of it's writing. You may say that it seems disjointed and lacking focus but its the subtelties in the characters and their interactions that are the most interesting. Beyond that you need to look at character development. There are not a lot of shows that can completely transform a character from a monster (ie Jamie Lannister) into something more sympathetic (I call it reverse Walter Whiting)
- Really Chris? You're gonna use Heroes as a counter point? After the 1st season of Heroes how was it? Maybe if they took a little longer to save the damn cheerleader the show wouldn't have gone down the drain in quality after 1 freaking season.
- ...Not gonna argue with point 3. It's best to have a character map or family tree infront of you
- The Red wedding is great because it completely defies the Star Wars character law: when you have more than 2 main characters in 1 area you know everything is going to be alright. Beyond that it was great because A it was unexpected for those who weren't familiar with the books and B it has far reaching implications into the rest of the show. Lastly, Chris I just have a feeling you were disappointed because of the hype and the fact that everyone was talking about it. You went in knowing something was going to happen and thus it detracted from the overall excitement.
- There's actually quite a good amount of sex in the books and granted some of the sex in the show is gratuitous but if you look at Daneyrs and her scenes, she essentially goes from timid young woman to badass Mother of Dragons. Her character development actually is represented well in those scenes. Look beyond the flesh my friend.
My final point and one that you "conveniently" left out. ONE BAD ASS IMP. Tyrion is amazing, and Peter Dinklage owns the screen when he's on it.
I know people always say this, but the books are better. The characters are defined better and at greater length, the structure is different, they don't have to include every character at the same time so it becomes a bit of a clusterfuck...yeah. Also, the nudity is a fault of the show (and HBO), not the source material. I love the show because I get to see these characters and events come to life.
Wow, this might get ugly.
For example; you need to know the names of the whole Stark family, but you don't need to remember all the names of everyone in Robb's army, everyone in the Nights Watch, everyone bumbling about with Arya or everyone who interacts with Sansa in King's Landing. So long as when you see someone talking to Jon and you can say "Oh that's the old white guy who's in charge of the Night's Watch" or "That's some other new recruit"(really not that difficult, especially in the context of the scenes) you don't have to remember that they're called Lord Morment or Pyp
Pretty much what stueymon says here. This is a show which requires you to pay attention at all times, but having said that you don't actually need to be able to remember the names of all the characters, just a handfull and then keep a vague sense of the identity of a few of the men around them.stueymon said:
For example; you need to know the names of the whole Stark family, but you don't need to remember all the names of everyone in Robb's army, everyone in the Nights Watch, everyone bumbling about with Arya or everyone who interacts with Sansa in King's Landing. So long as when you see someone talking to Jon and you can say "Oh that's the old white guy who's in charge of the Night's Watch" or "That's some other new recruit"(really not that difficult, especially in the context of the scenes) you don't have to remember that they're called Lord Morment or Pyp
daibakuha said:
Oh I see. My own understanding of the seasons is this: there are 4 basic seasons, like Earth. There are additionally 2, long term seasons labelled Summer and Winter. These refer to climatological changes, which seem to occur with a wishy-washy cycle of hundreds of years. It is never explained, because the people of the world do not understand it either, and this is fantasy, not science fiction. "Summer" refers to the climate we see on the show now. "Winter" refers to a time (it's coming, we swear!) When the entire planet becomes a much colder place, perma-frost, glacial advance, no visible sun for Months, even years on end. Also Zombies.
Could it be explained better in the books? Absolutely. However I like being as ignorant to the why (within the story) as the characters. Outside the books, I have a cock-a-maimy binary planet theory that may or may not hold any water, I am not an astronomer.
The nudity is as common in the source material as it is in the show. Even then there have been shows with far more nudity which didn't see as much damning criticism for the nudity.PurpleLeafRave said:
As others have also said, they did tone down the nudity in the later seasons, probably because they were criticized for it.
I laughed at the video.
I then laughed harder at some of the comments here.
I enjoy Game of Thrones, read the books and love 'em. Don't in any way give a fuck if there are people who don't like them - Of course they could be better. I've yet to read,watch or otherwise come across, in any way, shape, or form, a perfect story.
I await the remainder of this thread with baited breath. I've really gotten into coming on the internet to read the thoughts of people getting genuinely emotional in their defence of things they like, or what they feel is a misinterpretation of something they like.
I then laughed harder at some of the comments here.
I enjoy Game of Thrones, read the books and love 'em. Don't in any way give a fuck if there are people who don't like them - Of course they could be better. I've yet to read,watch or otherwise come across, in any way, shape, or form, a perfect story.
I await the remainder of this thread with baited breath. I've really gotten into coming on the internet to read the thoughts of people getting genuinely emotional in their defence of things they like, or what they feel is a misinterpretation of something they like.
Stuff like that. Fucking love it.daibakuha said:
Opinions!
Really, though, a lot of things you say here doesn't make sense to me.
First, you treat the words "Winter is Coming" as though it's some sort of prophecy when it's actually the words of the Stark House, sort of an ever present reminder to always be vigilant because bad tidings are always approaching and will come at some point if they haven't already (as by Season 2 onwards, and only getting worse).
Second, you criticize the show for its "lack of focus" when it's actually one of the things I like most about it: the multiple story lines all centered around this conflict of the realm falling apart as a supernatural darkness approaches. We spend some time with the characters at King's Landing before we shift to the North, then the Wall, and then to Essos. We (or at least I) never grow bored by any of it, like I can in certain other shows, because whenever we've spent some time in one location with a certain set of characters and start to grow weary, it shifts to another fresh location we haven't seen in a while with characters giving us new things to wonder about.
Then, the Red Wedding. I admit that it's been too hyped, but it is quite shocking if you, ya know, CARE about the characters, which you admit not to. Of course it's not gonna affect you because, by your own admission, you don't care about the characters they kill. Not a whole lot to say there. Also, since at least two of the characters that perish are ones we've known and cared about since the start of the show, and they /do/ something as in one of them is a renegade king who has won every battle he's fought in a war engulfing an entire continent, it's quite understandable why it's significant. Especially since it was in an act of betrayal.
I can see how the sex gets kind of distracting at times, but at others it feels natural. /Just/ because a scene contains sex and nudity doesn't mean it's not cleverly written, and I can't think of one where the show used sex as a crutch.
Really, though, a lot of things you say here doesn't make sense to me.
First, you treat the words "Winter is Coming" as though it's some sort of prophecy when it's actually the words of the Stark House, sort of an ever present reminder to always be vigilant because bad tidings are always approaching and will come at some point if they haven't already (as by Season 2 onwards, and only getting worse).
Second, you criticize the show for its "lack of focus" when it's actually one of the things I like most about it: the multiple story lines all centered around this conflict of the realm falling apart as a supernatural darkness approaches. We spend some time with the characters at King's Landing before we shift to the North, then the Wall, and then to Essos. We (or at least I) never grow bored by any of it, like I can in certain other shows, because whenever we've spent some time in one location with a certain set of characters and start to grow weary, it shifts to another fresh location we haven't seen in a while with characters giving us new things to wonder about.
Then, the Red Wedding. I admit that it's been too hyped, but it is quite shocking if you, ya know, CARE about the characters, which you admit not to. Of course it's not gonna affect you because, by your own admission, you don't care about the characters they kill. Not a whole lot to say there. Also, since at least two of the characters that perish are ones we've known and cared about since the start of the show, and they /do/ something as in one of them is a renegade king who has won every battle he's fought in a war engulfing an entire continent, it's quite understandable why it's significant. Especially since it was in an act of betrayal.
I can see how the sex gets kind of distracting at times, but at others it feels natural. /Just/ because a scene contains sex and nudity doesn't mean it's not cleverly written, and I can't think of one where the show used sex as a crutch.
Sex in an HBO series?!?! GASP! Oh America, murder, intolerance, and violence is good family fun, but Sex is Evil!daibakuha said:
Part of the problem comes from the series being so faithful to the source material (in terms of content). Where the books can spend plenty of time laying out character motivations and devoting enough time to their stories, the tv show is hamstrung by its 10 episode/1 hour per episode length. The result is that events or characters are either rushed over, or god awful 'sexposition' is used to quickly explain everything about a character.PurpleLeafRave said:
I'm with Chris on this one, but then again I thought the Battlestar Galactica remake was overrated too.
I've tried watching Game of Thrones, but it just seems like a big soap opera with the lord of the rings playing in the background. Oh, and there's sex and nudity, because that always sells; it really didn't add anything to the episodes I saw and wound up distracting from what else was going on. I suspect the books are probably better, but this discussion isn't about the books, is it? (And if the show can't stand on its own, then it's already lost.)
The show has all this promise of zombies and dragons and magic and mystery, but none of it is there. It's just a medieval soap opera designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator and uses the fantasy hook to keep people watching way longer than they normally would have.
...Sorry. I got a little carried away there. I'm just sick of hearing about the show.
I've tried watching Game of Thrones, but it just seems like a big soap opera with the lord of the rings playing in the background. Oh, and there's sex and nudity, because that always sells; it really didn't add anything to the episodes I saw and wound up distracting from what else was going on. I suspect the books are probably better, but this discussion isn't about the books, is it? (And if the show can't stand on its own, then it's already lost.)
The show has all this promise of zombies and dragons and magic and mystery, but none of it is there. It's just a medieval soap opera designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator and uses the fantasy hook to keep people watching way longer than they normally would have.
...Sorry. I got a little carried away there. I'm just sick of hearing about the show.