fantastic video guys, its good to know there are others with mental illness of some sort who love the stuff I do
No Right Answer: Living with Depression
- Thread starter Firefilm
- Start date
I'm going to share a bit:
So, I'm about to turn 32 and I've been in psychiatric treatment since I was 15. My entire adult life has been spent collecting new diagnosis' and under constant, varying awful psychiatric medications, outpatient therapy and hideous bullshit. I've gone through many different SSRI, tricyclic, anti-psychotic, benzodiazapine tranquilizer and offlabel usages of weird medications in the pursuit of therapy. I have co-morbid intermediate-severity autistic spectrum disorder with other more prevalent issues. As is common for such persons, it took YEARS of hard personal work to break out of the bubble of panic, social anxiety and severe unipolar depression, acute psychotic episodes and chronic insomnia.
I do agree that it's something you can & should acknowledge as a problem you DEAL WITH and it's HEALTHY to speak genuinely and without shame.
I completely disagree that depression or other mental disorders are something to be adopted into your sense of self. Speaking as a veteran 'troubled person', personally defining yourself by and assimilating your problems into your very IDENTITY is a shitty, unhealthy idea. Yet, it's understandable why people do so - especially when what you've experienced is 'validated' with a label presented as new information when you're vulnerable and susceptible to any idea that looks like clarity.
You are not your problems any more than you are your chores or your taxes or your illnesses. The key difference in the discussion is just that the symptoms of any dysfunctional neuro-chemical imbalance is perceived by others only through behavior, ascribed to volition. Regarding behavior, if you had a bad cold and cough - you could tell people that and explain you're under the weather, but it's still unbecoming and rude to sneeze and cough in their face and the same is largely true of mental symptoms. That's just day to day management, but if you're truly in suicidal despair, go to a fucking hospital as you would if you were seriously ill with anything else, rather than trying to seek help from untrained friends and family.
Unfortunately, the rub is that the medications are addictive, unreliable and expensive. It's not pseudoscience, but it's not yet reliably effective treatment compared to other conditions and solutions, so approach with caution. I'd argue that experiencing and understanding the options of treatment are ultimately better than rejecting them offhand, but be wary and aware of what's being prescribed and especially aware of doctors suggesting "increasing the dosage" in the face of sub-optimal results (Perticularly, SSRIs (effexor, zoloft, prozac, paxil) and tranquilizers (alprazolam, diazepam, temazepam) etc... One thing they offer reliably is addiction, side effects and withdrawl symptoms.
The silver lining to my above distaste for the current offerings of psychiatric pharmaceuticals is that most of the symptoms I take them for have dissipated through experience and age. Take heart that once your HGH levels taper down as your approach your late 20's a lot of the precipitating hormonal precursors and dispositions for brain chemistry imbalance.
In short, SURVIVE long enough and things WILL improve.
So, I'm about to turn 32 and I've been in psychiatric treatment since I was 15. My entire adult life has been spent collecting new diagnosis' and under constant, varying awful psychiatric medications, outpatient therapy and hideous bullshit. I've gone through many different SSRI, tricyclic, anti-psychotic, benzodiazapine tranquilizer and offlabel usages of weird medications in the pursuit of therapy. I have co-morbid intermediate-severity autistic spectrum disorder with other more prevalent issues. As is common for such persons, it took YEARS of hard personal work to break out of the bubble of panic, social anxiety and severe unipolar depression, acute psychotic episodes and chronic insomnia.
I do agree that it's something you can & should acknowledge as a problem you DEAL WITH and it's HEALTHY to speak genuinely and without shame.
I completely disagree that depression or other mental disorders are something to be adopted into your sense of self. Speaking as a veteran 'troubled person', personally defining yourself by and assimilating your problems into your very IDENTITY is a shitty, unhealthy idea. Yet, it's understandable why people do so - especially when what you've experienced is 'validated' with a label presented as new information when you're vulnerable and susceptible to any idea that looks like clarity.
You are not your problems any more than you are your chores or your taxes or your illnesses. The key difference in the discussion is just that the symptoms of any dysfunctional neuro-chemical imbalance is perceived by others only through behavior, ascribed to volition. Regarding behavior, if you had a bad cold and cough - you could tell people that and explain you're under the weather, but it's still unbecoming and rude to sneeze and cough in their face and the same is largely true of mental symptoms. That's just day to day management, but if you're truly in suicidal despair, go to a fucking hospital as you would if you were seriously ill with anything else, rather than trying to seek help from untrained friends and family.
Unfortunately, the rub is that the medications are addictive, unreliable and expensive. It's not pseudoscience, but it's not yet reliably effective treatment compared to other conditions and solutions, so approach with caution. I'd argue that experiencing and understanding the options of treatment are ultimately better than rejecting them offhand, but be wary and aware of what's being prescribed and especially aware of doctors suggesting "increasing the dosage" in the face of sub-optimal results (Perticularly, SSRIs (effexor, zoloft, prozac, paxil) and tranquilizers (alprazolam, diazepam, temazepam) etc... One thing they offer reliably is addiction, side effects and withdrawl symptoms.
The silver lining to my above distaste for the current offerings of psychiatric pharmaceuticals is that most of the symptoms I take them for have dissipated through experience and age. Take heart that once your HGH levels taper down as your approach your late 20's a lot of the precipitating hormonal precursors and dispositions for brain chemistry imbalance.
In short, SURVIVE long enough and things WILL improve.
As someone whose entire life has been defined by my depression, I've found that talking to people has only succeeded in driving them away, but I guess your mileage will vary. At least you can get treatment nowadays for it, when I was a teenager the attitude in the UK was basically to "walk it off".
It's also very positive that Nintendo are supportive with your depression. Again, this might be a specifically European prejudice, but admitting and seeking treatment for depression effectively walls off certain roles for you in the UK and companies will actively avoid employing anyone with any confessed mental illness.
The idea that being depressed becomes a component of your self-image resonated strongly with me and I think it's a major factor in preventing a lot of people from seeking help. Frankly, any mild side effects caused by taking anti-depressants are worth enduring if you can make a difference to your life and the lives of those who care about you.
I started taking prozac when my wife became pregnant, for the simple reason of not wanting to inflict my depression on my child. Although I've fallen back into depression now after being made redundant, up until that point I hadn't realised how much what was largely a chemical imbalance had become an established character trait.
These thoughts are not well organised. Apologies for that.
It's also very positive that Nintendo are supportive with your depression. Again, this might be a specifically European prejudice, but admitting and seeking treatment for depression effectively walls off certain roles for you in the UK and companies will actively avoid employing anyone with any confessed mental illness.
The idea that being depressed becomes a component of your self-image resonated strongly with me and I think it's a major factor in preventing a lot of people from seeking help. Frankly, any mild side effects caused by taking anti-depressants are worth enduring if you can make a difference to your life and the lives of those who care about you.
I started taking prozac when my wife became pregnant, for the simple reason of not wanting to inflict my depression on my child. Although I've fallen back into depression now after being made redundant, up until that point I hadn't realised how much what was largely a chemical imbalance had become an established character trait.
These thoughts are not well organised. Apologies for that.
Fantasically mature discussion. In addition to the honesty and frankness of what was shared, I'd like to give props to the editing which helped keep it focused and on topic. Also, as someone who finds evangelism disconcerting, I thought the extent to which you mentioned your faith was wholly appropriate to this discussion and appreciate your ability to bring it up without presenting it as a 'sweeping solution statement'.
I don't suffer from depression (nor do I play such a person on tv) but I've certainly had friends who have. It is validating to know, if only in hindsight, that the listening is so helpful. When you're a friend to someone who goes through this, it can be hard to tell especially after they have a run of good days and you start to see them sink again. As you mentioned at one point in the video, if you don't have it there's a desire to cure which can't really be ignored.
There are limits to what a friend can do and no shame in suggesting therapy. Just as the person who's depressed shouldn't feel they have to shoulder the burden alone, neither should those who want to help.
I don't suffer from depression (nor do I play such a person on tv) but I've certainly had friends who have. It is validating to know, if only in hindsight, that the listening is so helpful. When you're a friend to someone who goes through this, it can be hard to tell especially after they have a run of good days and you start to see them sink again. As you mentioned at one point in the video, if you don't have it there's a desire to cure which can't really be ignored.
There are limits to what a friend can do and no shame in suggesting therapy. Just as the person who's depressed shouldn't feel they have to shoulder the burden alone, neither should those who want to help.
Well, I have to wonder how many of them have actually been diagnosed. Depression is kind of like Asperger's in that people who demonstrate traits of the disorder simply claim they have it without any actual medical diagnosis. Much like being an emotionally oblivious introvert doesn't mean you have Aspergers, being depressed doesn't mean you have clinical depression. Another example, someone can have obsessive compulsive traits (such as myself) without having obsessive compulsive disorder.Strazdas said:
I really do encourage people who believe themselves to be depressed to seek a diagnosis as it might not be depression. It could be a form of bipolar disorder (they're commonly confused, even by doctors). It could be one of the several kinds of anxiety disorders. It could be simple dietary and lifestyle changes (vitamin D & iron deficiency). It could be low testosterone levels.
Kurt Cobain, while many imagine him as clinically depressed musical genius had scoliosis which resulted in severe back pain. This constant pain put him in an awful state. Some believe this is what lead him to his heroin use because it eliminated the pain. Which, of course, messed his brain up even more.
Long story short, feeling depressed does not necessarily mean you have clinical depression.
I've rode that depression rollercoaster before. (as has virtually this entire thread, so I'll keep my story brief.)
With all the meds, the quacks with prescriptions and the "get over it", and of course, the supremely incompetent school system bent on punishing me for it (and my ADHD, whatever that's worth now since everyone is apparently ADHD)
From my experience, it's a war within the mind. Not just feeling down, but the innate urge to plunge ever further down.
It comes with a proclivity of cynicism for every minor success and a confirmation for every failure.
And yes, I was suicidal before. Several times.
I used to contemplate without any sense of danger or irony, the ease with which I could die via this or that.
Medication did nothing. Counseling did close to nothing. The best "remedy" (which I use with the greatest of tentative airquotes) was getting out in the sun, away from places and things that enabled me to dwell on things, and to just redirect my mind away from the horrible spiral within.
(hell, I was on the initial trial for Paxil; the batch that ended up as the basis for a lawsuit. That shit made me into an emotional angry monster.)
As someone else said, do not integrate yourself into your problems. The moment you include your identity as part of the problem, is the moment you begin questioning and doubting every single part of you. And it leads to literal self-destruction and cynicism.
Contrary to how it's used (especially online) self-cynicism is NOT a badge of honor, nor is it a strength.
It eats away at your being in an insidious way.
So...thanks. Thanks for posting this video. It's especially "topical" during these cold dark months in the norther hemisphere. But depression is ongoing all the same.
With all the meds, the quacks with prescriptions and the "get over it", and of course, the supremely incompetent school system bent on punishing me for it (and my ADHD, whatever that's worth now since everyone is apparently ADHD)
From my experience, it's a war within the mind. Not just feeling down, but the innate urge to plunge ever further down.
It comes with a proclivity of cynicism for every minor success and a confirmation for every failure.
And yes, I was suicidal before. Several times.
I used to contemplate without any sense of danger or irony, the ease with which I could die via this or that.
Medication did nothing. Counseling did close to nothing. The best "remedy" (which I use with the greatest of tentative airquotes) was getting out in the sun, away from places and things that enabled me to dwell on things, and to just redirect my mind away from the horrible spiral within.
(hell, I was on the initial trial for Paxil; the batch that ended up as the basis for a lawsuit. That shit made me into an emotional angry monster.)
As someone else said, do not integrate yourself into your problems. The moment you include your identity as part of the problem, is the moment you begin questioning and doubting every single part of you. And it leads to literal self-destruction and cynicism.
Contrary to how it's used (especially online) self-cynicism is NOT a badge of honor, nor is it a strength.
It eats away at your being in an insidious way.
So...thanks. Thanks for posting this video. It's especially "topical" during these cold dark months in the norther hemisphere. But depression is ongoing all the same.
It's really hard for me to understand, I don't think I've ever suffered from depression that was without reason. But, I've always tried to be empathetic and avoid 'cheer up' or 'get over it' kind of phrases. Cuz I've been there when I was 15 my pregnant girlfriend called me on the phone to say "it's your fault" then shot herself in the stomach then head. That took me a long time to get past.
<--Curious Non-Depressed Person Here:
Is a depressed person sad about something? Or are they sad for no discernible reason?
Also, I've heard that those suffering may appear to be happy on the outside; Is it a constant sadness, and happiness is almost like a mask, or does it come and go?
Is a depressed person sad about something? Or are they sad for no discernible reason?
Also, I've heard that those suffering may appear to be happy on the outside; Is it a constant sadness, and happiness is almost like a mask, or does it come and go?
A great and sensitive video, especially after something I heard here in the UK the other day which is the number of young people committing suicide has risen because they feel their life is going nowhere.
I am trying to get into the games industry as a designer and a writer and when you are sat at home all day, looking for a job to get you that first step but there is nothing and no-one is willing to give you a chance, it is very easy to see how people can feel that their life is going nowhere. For me I have too much I want to do to contemplate suicide but it does get you down and it is hard to drag yourself out of bed to face another day of rejection because every company wants someone with a years experience, then there is no guidance on how to get said experience.
I know this is a temporary situation for me and I don't want to insult anyone who suffers from chronic depression with this but it is an issue in this country and for people like me, who come out of University with these hopes and ambitions, its does get you down and it is hard to see the light at the end of it all.
I am trying to get into the games industry as a designer and a writer and when you are sat at home all day, looking for a job to get you that first step but there is nothing and no-one is willing to give you a chance, it is very easy to see how people can feel that their life is going nowhere. For me I have too much I want to do to contemplate suicide but it does get you down and it is hard to drag yourself out of bed to face another day of rejection because every company wants someone with a years experience, then there is no guidance on how to get said experience.
I know this is a temporary situation for me and I don't want to insult anyone who suffers from chronic depression with this but it is an issue in this country and for people like me, who come out of University with these hopes and ambitions, its does get you down and it is hard to see the light at the end of it all.
The answer will be very different for a lot of people and can get rather complicated. For me, personally, it's a feeling of pressing doom/hopelessness. A lot of times, it'll hit without warning and last for completely random amounts of time, sometimes only half a day and sometimes for over a week. My energy levels plunge, but I can't sleep, so it culminates in a general restless, listless feeling. I lose interest in things that would normally make me happy and find myself pacing, unable to make any decision as to what I should do with my time. While I can never pinpoint exactly what triggers my times with depression, I know that worry regarding finances make things especially worse, as well as lack of consistently good sleep.Living_Brain said:
As I said though, it's different for everybody affected. For some, they aren't necessarily even "sad" so much as they just don't feel much of anything. In high school, I tended to cope by avoiding feeling anything at all, justifying it by saying that that even though I couldn't feel happy, I also couldn't feel sad or disappointed, but that was really difficult to live with for extended periods of time.
So, the short answer here, we're all unique little depressed snowflakes, complicated in design and so very, very cold.
Diagnostic problem can exist from specialists side as well. I self indentify as Asperger, however i got no official diagnosis. When i wanted to be diagnosed the doctor instead told me "you will grow out of it" and didnt actually check.Weaver said:
I do wonder how does one be obsessive compulsive without being obsessive compulsive though, because i think i would fit into that category.
I do agree that there can be many confusions, however elimination tactic is possible, when you eliminate all other possibilities and thats whats left then that is whats left. Of course that brigns the problem of change, as people do change and that makes such diagnosis all the much harder. Theres also lack of knowledge poblem, like i only recently found out omniverts even exist, which actually answered a lot.
Such an inspiration guys, its really admirable to have people come out and talk about their experiences so frankly and openly. I wish there were more people like you in the world and reading the above comments it makes me proud to be part of this community.
I have looked after family members with severe mental health problems all my life, even experiencing my own depression at times and on of the things I found hardest to deal with was the amount of people who were just saying 'chin up/ pick yourself up' because its not that simple. I'm sure its been said before but honestly, the best thing to do, to really help someone out is just listen, if you don't know what to say tell them that, but just continue to listen openly and honestly, its amazing what a good friend to lean on can be worth.
I hope you guys know that the community is right behind you
Keep up the amazing content, I love your show.
I have looked after family members with severe mental health problems all my life, even experiencing my own depression at times and on of the things I found hardest to deal with was the amount of people who were just saying 'chin up/ pick yourself up' because its not that simple. I'm sure its been said before but honestly, the best thing to do, to really help someone out is just listen, if you don't know what to say tell them that, but just continue to listen openly and honestly, its amazing what a good friend to lean on can be worth.
I hope you guys know that the community is right behind you
Keep up the amazing content, I love your show.
I've dealt with my share of depression in the past, but from where I'm standing now I think it was more to do with growing pains, various rough patches and some of the more unpredictable elements of my own psyche (mostly low-level forms of autism).
I've had friends who've had it far worse than myself, one of whom ended his life a few years back. It's a pretty sad subject, but at the same time I'm glad you're taking this opportunity to talk about it (and more importantly to encourage others to talk about it).
Big feels to those of you out there dealing with depression.
I've had friends who've had it far worse than myself, one of whom ended his life a few years back. It's a pretty sad subject, but at the same time I'm glad you're taking this opportunity to talk about it (and more importantly to encourage others to talk about it).
Big feels to those of you out there dealing with depression.
In my case, I think depression comes from trying to be useful and failing or not getting the results I was going for. If I don't feel useful to myself or others, I feel like I don't belong and if I feel like I don't belong, that's when I get the most depressed. Of course, I don't want people to tell me "you did good" when I didn't do a good job, but I do want people to appreciate me for my skills I guess which is kinda shallow but we all want to be appreciated for something. I think in someway this is true of all of us, we deal with depression because there's something we want to change in ourselves or in other people and we don't know the way to do it. Same can be and is true for material gain (money, promotion, social stature, etc). Sometimes the bigger the goals, the bigger the chances of getting depressed. Other than that, reaching those goals is the cure to your depression for a short term at least until you change your priorities and one thing is certain, priorities always change.
It is good to see something serious and close to the heart on here. I am sorry to hear about your friend, i understand the pain all too well as i lost a friend a while back to such problems, also as a long term sufferer of this and social anxiety (the whole lovely little box of 'fck with my life' issues), i have been in similar situations many times.
As for treatment, it is as complicated and varied as each personal case. To be open, i had issues since 11 but wasnt aware of what it actually was till 15. Went through suicide-heavy period for a few years. Then a 'self medicate' anything goes, drug heavy period for longer until i lost almost everything. At that point, after even more attempts at my life, i had to confront my problems seriously and seek a mixture of anti-depressants and psychological therapy (because councilling hadnt worked for me in the past as it works sort of like hypnosis where you have to trick your own mind and it always felt like lying to myself).
The problem is, when bad things begin to happen again (and they certainly did for me), you can fall further and harder than ever before. No amount of meds and cognitive therapy can make it go away. It has been about 3 to 4 years since then with a few more bad decisions and attempts with the ride, a couple of months on a mental ward and much more in supported housing, i can honestly say that i feel broken now, ruined after trying to overcome it all and failing with each bad event that serves only to push me back down. Recently the issues are worse and i havent coped well, not being able to deal with friendship and especially love lately. So it is strange to see this video on here currently.
Apparently this is all down to genetic inheritence from both sides of my family and my less than savoury upbringing, so i guess i was royally screwed from the start.
Lastly, there are others who like to play the victim for various personal reasons (often centered around attention). I have had extensive experience with these types throughout life, and although they are harmless as far as i know, it is incredibly fustrating to endure them doing their thing whilst most believe their every word.
It isnt easy to tell what people are like this without spending uncomfortable amounts of time with them and your own personal issues.
Sorry for the essay. Have never been this open online before. I hope it doesnt offend anyone if read.
As for treatment, it is as complicated and varied as each personal case. To be open, i had issues since 11 but wasnt aware of what it actually was till 15. Went through suicide-heavy period for a few years. Then a 'self medicate' anything goes, drug heavy period for longer until i lost almost everything. At that point, after even more attempts at my life, i had to confront my problems seriously and seek a mixture of anti-depressants and psychological therapy (because councilling hadnt worked for me in the past as it works sort of like hypnosis where you have to trick your own mind and it always felt like lying to myself).
The problem is, when bad things begin to happen again (and they certainly did for me), you can fall further and harder than ever before. No amount of meds and cognitive therapy can make it go away. It has been about 3 to 4 years since then with a few more bad decisions and attempts with the ride, a couple of months on a mental ward and much more in supported housing, i can honestly say that i feel broken now, ruined after trying to overcome it all and failing with each bad event that serves only to push me back down. Recently the issues are worse and i havent coped well, not being able to deal with friendship and especially love lately. So it is strange to see this video on here currently.
Apparently this is all down to genetic inheritence from both sides of my family and my less than savoury upbringing, so i guess i was royally screwed from the start.
Lastly, there are others who like to play the victim for various personal reasons (often centered around attention). I have had extensive experience with these types throughout life, and although they are harmless as far as i know, it is incredibly fustrating to endure them doing their thing whilst most believe their every word.
It isnt easy to tell what people are like this without spending uncomfortable amounts of time with them and your own personal issues.
Sorry for the essay. Have never been this open online before. I hope it doesnt offend anyone if read.
As a follower of some of Justin Carmical's videos during his partnership with Channel Awesome, the news of his suicide hit me pretty hard. What has resonated with me more following this news has been the online vlogs and discussions, in particular Angry Joe's vlog and now this video.
As someone who has already commented here on Escapist about his own depression, I knew the video content would hit close to home, but it felt like my heart momentarily stopped beating when Chris confessed that obtaining a relationship and employment did not help solve his depression, as I'm in the exact same predicament now. I've just been denying the fact that having a girlfriend wouldn't cure my depression (as for my job I already know it very often exacerbates it).
Back in late November I entered my first proper relationship, and with my feeling more positive at the time combined with financial worries, cancelled the therapy I was paying for shortly thereafter. Only last Monday, my girlfriend do something to me that made me slip back into depression, but with a mixture of denial and not wanting to worry her, I've never talked about it, in fact only hours ago I blew off her subject when she asked me if I was currently unhappy.
Watching this video has opened my eyes to my recent mistakes, and even without a therapist I realise that I need to talk to someone if I am to improve. At the very least I will sit down and confess my depression to my girlfriend tomorrow and be honest with her. I just hope that she accepts it as currently a part of me.
Chris, thank you so much for this video, your words really resonated with me, and I'll do my utmost to follow your advice.
As someone who has already commented here on Escapist about his own depression, I knew the video content would hit close to home, but it felt like my heart momentarily stopped beating when Chris confessed that obtaining a relationship and employment did not help solve his depression, as I'm in the exact same predicament now. I've just been denying the fact that having a girlfriend wouldn't cure my depression (as for my job I already know it very often exacerbates it).
Back in late November I entered my first proper relationship, and with my feeling more positive at the time combined with financial worries, cancelled the therapy I was paying for shortly thereafter. Only last Monday, my girlfriend do something to me that made me slip back into depression, but with a mixture of denial and not wanting to worry her, I've never talked about it, in fact only hours ago I blew off her subject when she asked me if I was currently unhappy.
Watching this video has opened my eyes to my recent mistakes, and even without a therapist I realise that I need to talk to someone if I am to improve. At the very least I will sit down and confess my depression to my girlfriend tomorrow and be honest with her. I just hope that she accepts it as currently a part of me.
Chris, thank you so much for this video, your words really resonated with me, and I'll do my utmost to follow your advice.
Thank you for using your internet personality outlet to talk about this difficult issue. Through this one act, you have reached in to an established community and probably saved lives. You should be commended
Maybe I'm overgeneralizing, but I think a big cause of depression in the geek culture for males is not having a girlfriend or something similar.
I'm sure all of us have been in the friendzone at some point in our life and have felt forever alone. There is a reason why these concepts are so well known.
Personally, I have been going though bouts of depression since Jr. High up until very recently when I got my first girlfriend at 31. Unfortunately I was only with her for six months, we broke up for reasons not related to my depression but it was the first time in my life that I actually felt happy.
I'm sure all of us have been in the friendzone at some point in our life and have felt forever alone. There is a reason why these concepts are so well known.
Personally, I have been going though bouts of depression since Jr. High up until very recently when I got my first girlfriend at 31. Unfortunately I was only with her for six months, we broke up for reasons not related to my depression but it was the first time in my life that I actually felt happy.