I'm with a few of you guys, how DID MMO's in general, WoW specifically, not get debated about? For that matter, why not TVTropes? I've lost HOURS per night over there taking WikiWalks (hey, that's a trope name!) !
No Right Answer: Most Addictive Timesink Ever
- Thread starter Firefilm
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Because the person that was going to debate the case of TV Tropes has yet to resurface.Darth_Payn said:
I vote for Victoria 2, similar situation as Civ only you don't know how fast time is going.One minute you could be building your own small army to deciding what country to conquest next, try it with a friend and you have legal crack cocaine.Has a learning curve of a brick wall so take that as you wish.
TVTropes is a possibility too, its a game about trying to close the web page, next thing you know your browser is filled with TVTropes tabs, endlessly creating even more tabs, until your browser crashes from the tab number.
TVTropes is a possibility too, its a game about trying to close the web page, next thing you know your browser is filled with TVTropes tabs, endlessly creating even more tabs, until your browser crashes from the tab number.
Out of those, Pokemon is much more of a timesink then Minecraft, for me that is.
Minecraft alone is terribly boring, Pokemon is not.
Minecraft alone is terribly boring, Pokemon is not.
I have to go with Pokemon on this one. Minecraft has only really been around for a few years (Really only got really popular a year or 2 ago and only officially released last year) so it's still fresh on everyone's minds. In Minecraft, you have the option to give yourself anything in the game with what you're given. Once you do that, you take away about 2/3 of the game. Making whatever you want is cool, but the novelty of it wears off and it becomes boring and playing survival mode isn't really all that addictive once you've tried creative mode. Multiplayer usually means finding a server which in my experience would have rules which made trying to make things with friends boring as you had to earn money to buy stuff to make things. Then there's the alternative of using Hamachi or another program like that, but that becomes boring as well when you only have 4 or 5 friends trying to make a bunch of big stuff and realize that you guys are most likely going to be the only ones who are going to see all the stuff you worked on. Mods breathe new life into the game for a while, but most aren't anything major. Most of what I've seen is stuff like added climbing controls, slide controls, fixed animations, etc. and the ones that are close *coughcoughPOKEMONMODcoughcough* aren't finished/multiplayer as far as I know.
Pokemon, on the other hand, has been around for almost 15 years now. Sure it's not as big of a deal as it used to be with the theatrical releases, religious protesters, etc. but it's card game and anime are still around so somebody has to be buying/watching it. The games are where it's at though. The games are still the reason a lot of people even buy Nintendo's handhelds. What makes Pokemon so addicting though is it's competitive aspect. The more friends you have that play Pokemon, the more competitive you get, and the more competitive you get the further in the hole you find yourself. It starts out casually enough, playing with the team you've made through the single player game and battling together, then training them to level 100, then making a better team using all the Pokemon at the game's disposal until one day you find yourself riding a bike back and forth in front of the daycare trying to hatch a Pokemon with the right nature and IVs so you can go out and EV train them so that he'll be just that 1 stat better than your buddy's. Even if you go out and buy a cheat device, it doesn't take away the competitive aspect of the games, just makes it easier and cuts down a substantial amount of the work. Even then, you can find yourself addicted to just making different teams to switch out and play with (I got to the point where I made a Sandstorm Team, a Hail Team, a Trick Room Team, and some others back when I was really into it). Minecraft doesn't really have that. Sure you can "compete" to make the coolest building or whatever but that's not really a win/lose scenario as it's more about opinions than anything else.
Of course, both of these aren't nearly as addictive as WoW (As much as I hate it), but this is what the debate was.
Edit: Just to add some information, I spent over 300 hours on Pokemon Diamond alone. I don't even think I spent 30 hours in Minecraft. Having endless possibilities doesn't always make a game more addicting than a game with a somewhat conceivable end point. Throwing someone into a game with no goal really and saying "Have fun" can be fun for a while, but eventually I find myself saying "There's really no point in this, if there's no end that means there's really no true progression so I've seen all there is to see" and put it down. Pokemon has goals that once you've completed you can go to the next one. Beat the elite 4, complete the Pokedex, get master ribbons, beat the battle towers, fight the online battle towers, make the best team you can think of, make the best team you can think of with a theme, and so on. That may not sound like anything on paper, but in practice it can take hundreds of hours. And that's just with one game. The great thing about Pokemon is it has so many games. It's feasible to buy Pokemon Sapphire/Ruby, do all of this in that game, trade them to the next game, repeat the process adding the Pokemon from that game to your party and repeating this until you get to the latest game, Have Pokemon with ribbons from all the games up until that point and perfect stats. Sure this may take you an ungodly amount of time, but I'm sure there's people that have done it over the course of the past 10 years since Ruby/Sapphire came out.
Pokemon, on the other hand, has been around for almost 15 years now. Sure it's not as big of a deal as it used to be with the theatrical releases, religious protesters, etc. but it's card game and anime are still around so somebody has to be buying/watching it. The games are where it's at though. The games are still the reason a lot of people even buy Nintendo's handhelds. What makes Pokemon so addicting though is it's competitive aspect. The more friends you have that play Pokemon, the more competitive you get, and the more competitive you get the further in the hole you find yourself. It starts out casually enough, playing with the team you've made through the single player game and battling together, then training them to level 100, then making a better team using all the Pokemon at the game's disposal until one day you find yourself riding a bike back and forth in front of the daycare trying to hatch a Pokemon with the right nature and IVs so you can go out and EV train them so that he'll be just that 1 stat better than your buddy's. Even if you go out and buy a cheat device, it doesn't take away the competitive aspect of the games, just makes it easier and cuts down a substantial amount of the work. Even then, you can find yourself addicted to just making different teams to switch out and play with (I got to the point where I made a Sandstorm Team, a Hail Team, a Trick Room Team, and some others back when I was really into it). Minecraft doesn't really have that. Sure you can "compete" to make the coolest building or whatever but that's not really a win/lose scenario as it's more about opinions than anything else.
Of course, both of these aren't nearly as addictive as WoW (As much as I hate it), but this is what the debate was.
Edit: Just to add some information, I spent over 300 hours on Pokemon Diamond alone. I don't even think I spent 30 hours in Minecraft. Having endless possibilities doesn't always make a game more addicting than a game with a somewhat conceivable end point. Throwing someone into a game with no goal really and saying "Have fun" can be fun for a while, but eventually I find myself saying "There's really no point in this, if there's no end that means there's really no true progression so I've seen all there is to see" and put it down. Pokemon has goals that once you've completed you can go to the next one. Beat the elite 4, complete the Pokedex, get master ribbons, beat the battle towers, fight the online battle towers, make the best team you can think of, make the best team you can think of with a theme, and so on. That may not sound like anything on paper, but in practice it can take hundreds of hours. And that's just with one game. The great thing about Pokemon is it has so many games. It's feasible to buy Pokemon Sapphire/Ruby, do all of this in that game, trade them to the next game, repeat the process adding the Pokemon from that game to your party and repeating this until you get to the latest game, Have Pokemon with ribbons from all the games up until that point and perfect stats. Sure this may take you an ungodly amount of time, but I'm sure there's people that have done it over the course of the past 10 years since Ruby/Sapphire came out.
No love for Civ? Much like MineCraft, the possibilities with that game are endless. Which civilization do you choose, which map type, what are your long-term goals? IT NEVER ENDS!
It also makes you actually think and form strategies. I have literally been up all night playing Civ before, and didn't even finish the game I started!
It also makes you actually think and form strategies. I have literally been up all night playing Civ before, and didn't even finish the game I started!
I've never played Pokemon. I do love RPGs, but I have never been much for Pokemon. I know, I'm a blasphemer or something. I'm sorry. And honestly, Chris's description makes me happy I never did get into the games.
Probably a bad time to mention that I haven't tried Minecraft, either. I should point out that it interests me, I just haven't gotten around to it.
I think I'll just leave, now...
Probably a bad time to mention that I haven't tried Minecraft, either. I should point out that it interests me, I just haven't gotten around to it.
I think I'll just leave, now...
Sorry chris but kyle won by default - WHY? minecraft....(drumroll) POKEMON MOD!!!!! if ONE timesink ABSORBS the other one it has to be superior! (I made that argument for big ladies once and get into trouble so its not always true but in this case it is)
But i have to give chris pts for the *shakepeerian rpg* (pretty sure thats not how u spell it but i just woke up and i feel like i should be back in bed.
P.S. u sure u dont drink chris?! i mean....REALLY?
But i have to give chris pts for the *shakepeerian rpg* (pretty sure thats not how u spell it but i just woke up and i feel like i should be back in bed.
P.S. u sure u dont drink chris?! i mean....REALLY?
I feel that alot of what kyle is saying how you cant awlk away from minecraft if false. I mean, I get into it, but I never really get into it. I've literally lost hours of time where the clock magically jump 15 hours ahead without realize playing pokemon, but with minecraft ive never been that immersed. Plus minecraft only goes as far as your creativity, which is both a good and bad thing.
... and pokemon never required you to eat in game or youd die, so I dont have to go do the tedious task of going to find a damn chicken, cow, or pig and killing it.
... and pokemon never required you to eat in game or youd die, so I dont have to go do the tedious task of going to find a damn chicken, cow, or pig and killing it.
Minecraft is also portable now (although its quality is debatable), so that argument doesn't really work. I'd say Minecraft is more addictive, although only because I despise newer Pokémon games.
The problem with Minecraft is, yes, you can make whatever your imagination and patience will allow, but if you aren't creative enough or have the stick-to-it-iveness, it's just running around not having fun. And getting killed by creepers.
As for Pokemon, at least it has a plot; a driving force that makes you want to keep going. The Pokemon are more of a post-"game" collect-a-thon. And even devices such as Action Replay, "catchin' 'em all" still takes a loooooooong ass time.
As for Pokemon, at least it has a plot; a driving force that makes you want to keep going. The Pokemon are more of a post-"game" collect-a-thon. And even devices such as Action Replay, "catchin' 'em all" still takes a loooooooong ass time.
ok, how about this... instead of the "best pokemon", you can debate which is the "most 'Pokemon (tm)' pokemon": the one that best embodies or represents. Pikachu is excluded, of course, because f*** that little yellow rat it's too obvious and pretty much chosen as the company mascot (although pikachu vs mudkipz might be an interesting exploration of corporate marketing vs word-of-mouth memetics).
There several others who could make the cut...
Mudkip of course (I herd u liek them),
Jigglypuff (smash brothers, anyone?),
Mew (representing the futile struggle of catching them all, overcome only by cheating... which in itself is an interesting conundrum: a game that literally must be cheated at to win.)
...or you could do videogames' douchiest rival, for which the clear must be Blue (Gary) from Pokemon vs Jimmy Lee from Double Dragon... with the possible option of Siefer from Final Fantasy 8.
There several others who could make the cut...
Mudkip of course (I herd u liek them),
Jigglypuff (smash brothers, anyone?),
Mew (representing the futile struggle of catching them all, overcome only by cheating... which in itself is an interesting conundrum: a game that literally must be cheated at to win.)
...or you could do videogames' douchiest rival, for which the clear must be Blue (Gary) from Pokemon vs Jimmy Lee from Double Dragon... with the possible option of Siefer from Final Fantasy 8.
No WoW or League of Legends?
Both of those have taken more of my time and money than Pokemon or Minecraft.
In fact, I've never played Pokemon or Minecraft.
Both of those have taken more of my time and money than Pokemon or Minecraft.
In fact, I've never played Pokemon or Minecraft.
It depends on how your brain is wired. I was bored with minecraft, yet pokemon can and has sucked me in to a few hundred hours per generation.
Then again, on that front it fails next to Disgaea if for no other reason of the random elements (natures, IVs, Shineys) maing a master file next to impossible, and nintendo's limiting of various pokemon making even a complete pokedex something most of us never see without a cheat device.
Disgaea has characters that level to 9999 plus reincarnations, and all the weapons do the same, and then there's specialist gathering. it took 200 hours to gets even one character in Disgaea 3 to where I wanted him.
Then again, on that front it fails next to Disgaea if for no other reason of the random elements (natures, IVs, Shineys) maing a master file next to impossible, and nintendo's limiting of various pokemon making even a complete pokedex something most of us never see without a cheat device.
Disgaea has characters that level to 9999 plus reincarnations, and all the weapons do the same, and then there's specialist gathering. it took 200 hours to gets even one character in Disgaea 3 to where I wanted him.