No Right Answer: Mulan vs Jasmine
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Mulan's the better role model, Aladdin's the better film. Best Disney Princess role model would have to be Princess Tiana, being the only Disney Princess with any career ambitions, and as an animation nerd, I feel the need to state that the Glen Keane princesses (Ariel and Rapunzel) are easily the most interesting, well developed characters in terms of animation performance.
*sigh* If we really want to be technical here, there are only (ONLY) ten Disney Princesses: Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Pocahontas, Mulan, Tiana and Rapunzel. They were chosen for their popularity and their ability to fit in the "princess mythology" (the little universe they have going on).
Not all Disney princesses are official franchise "Princesses". For example, Eilonwy from The Black Cauldron is a princess in the movie but not an official "Disney Princess". Alice and Kairi are Princesses of Heart in the Kingdom Hearts series but neither one of them are "Disney Princesses". It gets even more confusing with the official "Disney Princes"; out of ten, only Shang and John Smith aren't actual princes, with John Smith not actually being married to his Disney Princess counterpart (awkward, yes?). No point in guessing when Disney did it for us.
When it comes to which Disney Princess is the most independent(I'm capitalizing "Princess" to indicate that I am only counting the franchise Princesses, not every Disney female connected to royalty), that's a tough thing to think about. What does "independence" mean in this context? It would have to be in a figurative way since none of the Disney Princesses are truly "independent" (all of them are married, one of them has a kid). Is it about kicking the most ass? Mulan would easily win in that category (she's one of very, very few Disney females that were involved in the military in ANY way), although Jasmine does a good job of defending herself in the Aladdin series and the second and third movies. Is it about going against the grain, defying social norms in order to find something better? Well, most of the Disney Princesses did that (in fact, it's usually part of the movie that they are in). What about busting your ass and working hard? Tiana gets that one hands down. Is it about sacrificing something for someone else? Mulan did that (although technically for self-realization and honor, not to save her father) and so did Belle (for two days...before developing Stockholm Syndrome).
Not all Disney princesses are official franchise "Princesses". For example, Eilonwy from The Black Cauldron is a princess in the movie but not an official "Disney Princess". Alice and Kairi are Princesses of Heart in the Kingdom Hearts series but neither one of them are "Disney Princesses". It gets even more confusing with the official "Disney Princes"; out of ten, only Shang and John Smith aren't actual princes, with John Smith not actually being married to his Disney Princess counterpart (awkward, yes?). No point in guessing when Disney did it for us.
When it comes to which Disney Princess is the most independent(I'm capitalizing "Princess" to indicate that I am only counting the franchise Princesses, not every Disney female connected to royalty), that's a tough thing to think about. What does "independence" mean in this context? It would have to be in a figurative way since none of the Disney Princesses are truly "independent" (all of them are married, one of them has a kid). Is it about kicking the most ass? Mulan would easily win in that category (she's one of very, very few Disney females that were involved in the military in ANY way), although Jasmine does a good job of defending herself in the Aladdin series and the second and third movies. Is it about going against the grain, defying social norms in order to find something better? Well, most of the Disney Princesses did that (in fact, it's usually part of the movie that they are in). What about busting your ass and working hard? Tiana gets that one hands down. Is it about sacrificing something for someone else? Mulan did that (although technically for self-realization and honor, not to save her father) and so did Belle (for two days...before developing Stockholm Syndrome).
Being a princess has to do with ROYAL blood and connection, not nobility. Jasmine was the daughter of a king, Mulan was at best a noble. Mulan should have been disqualified from a competition of Disney princesses. Now some of the Disney ladies who did not start as Princesses could qualify due to marrying a prince or whatever in the conclusion of the movie, but that's about it.
Also there is a lot more material about Jasmine given that there was an Aladdin TV show, and I don't think Mulan ever got the same treatment. BOTH of our hosts in "No right answer" need to lose some points here because Jasmine literally cracks a mean whip, and wins as many fights as Aladdin does, with the whole "where does a princess learn stuff like that" being a recurring gag in the TV series at least. For obvious reasons a lot of disney porn created by perverted fanboys involves Jasmine has a hardcore BDSM dominatrix for that reason... and oddly all wierd fanboyish porn aside, she's pretty much the only Disney "princess" I could see stepping into that role, and it's amusing because it makes a disturbing amount of sense because where else WOULD a princess learn that kind of stuff..... well, maybe from taming her tiger, but that's never what the whip was used for nor did it ever seem to need to be used.
That said, while both were decent Disney movies, Mulan seems to have gotten less exposure over the years (if she had a TV show I missed it for example), and also seems to get flak for being sexist ironically. While based on a legend/myth like most Disney fare, and deserving of points for actually being a character from a story about the female character (where Jasmine was supporting cast for Aladdin and the Genie), it's also a story about crossdressing where Mulan ultimatly has to assume the identity of a man in order to do the things she does. Despite the ending, that point has not exactly gone unnoticed. The entire point of the movie aside, modern feminists and those into female empowerment have far less respect to the girl who disguises herself as a guy to prove a point, and more for the whole "I am a grrrrl, hear me roar while I get in your face". Neither quite fit that role, but Jasmine comes closer to the ideal of modern indendence and empowerment because she generally does her stuff while remaining feminine.
Really, I have some fear that in these debates our hosts are going to lose so many nerd points that they will actually become (ugh) normal mundanes... One day will they both be official "bros" in "No Right Answer" comparing sports teams accross the decades that never met and argueing about which one was better?... or could Rocky Marciano actually beat Ali despite what previous statistical comparisons said (Ali lost by the numbers).
Also there is a lot more material about Jasmine given that there was an Aladdin TV show, and I don't think Mulan ever got the same treatment. BOTH of our hosts in "No right answer" need to lose some points here because Jasmine literally cracks a mean whip, and wins as many fights as Aladdin does, with the whole "where does a princess learn stuff like that" being a recurring gag in the TV series at least. For obvious reasons a lot of disney porn created by perverted fanboys involves Jasmine has a hardcore BDSM dominatrix for that reason... and oddly all wierd fanboyish porn aside, she's pretty much the only Disney "princess" I could see stepping into that role, and it's amusing because it makes a disturbing amount of sense because where else WOULD a princess learn that kind of stuff..... well, maybe from taming her tiger, but that's never what the whip was used for nor did it ever seem to need to be used.
That said, while both were decent Disney movies, Mulan seems to have gotten less exposure over the years (if she had a TV show I missed it for example), and also seems to get flak for being sexist ironically. While based on a legend/myth like most Disney fare, and deserving of points for actually being a character from a story about the female character (where Jasmine was supporting cast for Aladdin and the Genie), it's also a story about crossdressing where Mulan ultimatly has to assume the identity of a man in order to do the things she does. Despite the ending, that point has not exactly gone unnoticed. The entire point of the movie aside, modern feminists and those into female empowerment have far less respect to the girl who disguises herself as a guy to prove a point, and more for the whole "I am a grrrrl, hear me roar while I get in your face". Neither quite fit that role, but Jasmine comes closer to the ideal of modern indendence and empowerment because she generally does her stuff while remaining feminine.
Really, I have some fear that in these debates our hosts are going to lose so many nerd points that they will actually become (ugh) normal mundanes... One day will they both be official "bros" in "No Right Answer" comparing sports teams accross the decades that never met and argueing about which one was better?... or could Rocky Marciano actually beat Ali despite what previous statistical comparisons said (Ali lost by the numbers).
That they had to resort to equating independence with masculine qualities (like kicking ass) illustrates that Disney females have a long way to go before they should be pointed out as models of independence (though they do make pretty models, look at those waistlines).
"I'm calling shananigans on this!".
Perfect last words
Also, keep making this. Escapist: Keep paying these three guys!!!
Perfect last words
Also, keep making this. Escapist: Keep paying these three guys!!!
1. You left you Princess Eilonwy from the Black Cauldron :O. How can anyone forget her?orangeapples said:
Seriously though, Tiana married Lawrence so she's a single star princess.
2. Snow White was a princess before marrying a prince.
3. You mention Simba but not Nala or Kiara? And Flynn but not Rapunzel?
Doesn't Bambi count too? I believe they called him the prince of the forest, and Faline. And what about Hercules? He's the son of the king of the gods.
I gotta agree, Mulan not really a princess, instant disqualification.
Otherwise...
Alot of the point of a disney princess is to be that princess that sits around waiting to be rescued that gives little boys the notion that being a brave adventurer gets you the pretty girl and the little girls get the notion that being a princess gets you pretty dresses and a handsome man coming to get them whilst they do naught to earn it. Lo, an independent disney princess is the one that is the least disney princesslike. So yeah, in terms of most independent major female character in a disney movie, hell yeah mulan.
Otherwise...
Alot of the point of a disney princess is to be that princess that sits around waiting to be rescued that gives little boys the notion that being a brave adventurer gets you the pretty girl and the little girls get the notion that being a princess gets you pretty dresses and a handsome man coming to get them whilst they do naught to earn it. Lo, an independent disney princess is the one that is the least disney princesslike. So yeah, in terms of most independent major female character in a disney movie, hell yeah mulan.
Eilonwy's like 4th on my listUkomba said:
I never actually got a chance to watch Princess and the Frog, but I should have known Tiana's on the list since the movie is called PRINCESS and the Frog...
I thought Snow White was just a country girl... I think I'll have to re-watch that one.
I guess Nala would be a princess, and Simba's sister... hmmm... never thought about that before >_>
I could have sworn Repunzel was on my list... hmmm... guess I slipped up...
and sure, lets throw Hercules and Bambi on the list too
Honestly, Giselle from Enchanted should win this (YAY FOR ACTUAL DVD COPY IN THE BACKGROUND!).
She was the stereotypical princess; singing to wild life, twirling and spinning everywhere, wanting to marry a prince she barely met, etc. And yet, at the end of the movie, she changed into this independent, smart, and brave woman who breaks away completely from that princess-y persona and changes into this modern businesswoman.
BUT! I suppose she didn't end up marrying a prince...so she's not exactly a princess, per se.
So in lieu of that, Rapunzel gets the cake.
Why? Well, after being trapped in her tower for 18 years, she finally decides to take control of her life and boy, does she rock at it! She can read, she can paint, she can fight, she can sing, and she didn't need anyone to teach her all this; she did it all herself. Not only that, but she's so carefree and adventurous that it's really hard to hold her back. Even when she decides to go back to her tower life, she eventually realizes this isn't the life she wants and tries to break free, going as far as turning her back to all that she's known her entire life: her "mother" (For whatever reasons, but she did it).
And she's a princess.
So in a nutshell:
-She's talented.
-She can kick butt.
-For the most part, she doesn't need someone else to save her (She kinda does the saving at some point...)
-She can stand up against a psychotic woman she cared for and who lied to her her entire life.
-She's naive, but not silly or dumb (I'm looking at you, Thumbelina, and your monster crush on a guy you met 5 seconds ago).
HEY! Don't you go comparing the real stories with the Disney ones! The title, after all, is, "The most independent DISNEY princess".
She was the stereotypical princess; singing to wild life, twirling and spinning everywhere, wanting to marry a prince she barely met, etc. And yet, at the end of the movie, she changed into this independent, smart, and brave woman who breaks away completely from that princess-y persona and changes into this modern businesswoman.
BUT! I suppose she didn't end up marrying a prince...so she's not exactly a princess, per se.
So in lieu of that, Rapunzel gets the cake.
Why? Well, after being trapped in her tower for 18 years, she finally decides to take control of her life and boy, does she rock at it! She can read, she can paint, she can fight, she can sing, and she didn't need anyone to teach her all this; she did it all herself. Not only that, but she's so carefree and adventurous that it's really hard to hold her back. Even when she decides to go back to her tower life, she eventually realizes this isn't the life she wants and tries to break free, going as far as turning her back to all that she's known her entire life: her "mother" (For whatever reasons, but she did it).
And she's a princess.
So in a nutshell:
-She's talented.
-She can kick butt.
-For the most part, she doesn't need someone else to save her (She kinda does the saving at some point...)
-She can stand up against a psychotic woman she cared for and who lied to her her entire life.
-She's naive, but not silly or dumb (I'm looking at you, Thumbelina, and your monster crush on a guy you met 5 seconds ago).
HEY! Don't you go comparing the real stories with the Disney ones! The title, after all, is, "The most independent DISNEY princess".
For some reason, out of all the videos on the Escapist this one always takes the longest to load. I haven't even been able to watch the last few because of it