No Right Answer: Worst Father Ever

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Aprilgold said:
Dreiko said:
A lot of people here don't seem to get what dragonball is going for, what it means to be a Saiyan, how it fits within Japanese culture and a bunch of other things of that sort.


In that fictional anime story which is not about things existing in reality and should not be judged as though it were, fighting is fun, challenging strong opponents is exciting and pain or "abuse" is just something to shrug like a man and move onwards despite of. Goku is a perfect father for that fictional reality, to judge him on a reality without planet-destroying-aliens attacking at every second is beyond unfair.
Forgot to say this, isn't Dragon Ball based around Samuri traditions *why there aren't any Female saiyans* because the whole thing is equated to it. Seriously, the only thing I don't approve of is him dying to go train when there were other options, like, I don't know, GUNS FOR GODS SAKE!
Uhh, there are female Saiyans lol. How do you think the concept of a pure-blooded saiyan even exists if only males were saiyans. One of Bardock's main nakama is in fact a woman.



@entire thread of ignorant people:

It is a common saiyan practice to sent their BABIES to low-power level planets (like earth) so that they'll exterminate all the population and then the planets will be sold. You really can't be holding Goku to the standards of human parents in reality and to pretend that you should is ignorant. Saiyan children and concepts of parenthood are not human ones.

Also, Goku grew up in a mountain with and old martial arts guy and monsters as his entire company, he never went to school, it is part of his character him being obstinately ignorant of manners and traditions in normal human society. This was done because for kids back in the mid 80s in Japan, it seemed a nice fantasy to not be bound down by all the oppressing societal rules and filial piety that were forced upon them.
 

F-I-D-O

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This feels like a way to just get more comments on the forum...
Aw well, I'll pitch in
Goku.
As stated above Ozai is the bad guy. He's expected to be evil.
Goku? Is supposed to be nice.
Plus, Goku just goes and trains other kids. Ozai just ignores his son, but LOVES (or at least until I stopped watch) his daughter. Loving one child is better than ignoring both.
 

ductape10

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http://roosterteeth.com/comics/strip.php?id=572&page=1 here is a good contender also I say goku because ozai is just evil in genral
 

senordesol

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Can someone explain to me how Ozai 'supposed to be evil' counts as points in his favor for being a better father?

He had to be CONVINCED not to kill his kid, and then he still made the attempt later.

How does that win out over simple neglect/oafishness?
 

Mikeyfell

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Firefilm said:
Worst Father Ever

The boys force Dan to edit an episode all about Anime. This has resulted in Dan refusing to pick a winner. Go on our twitter, post on our boards, and mail us seductive pictures to choose the winner on this week's debate between Ozai and Goku for worst father ever.

Watch Video
Chris wins Goku is a way worse father, here's why.

Ozai is an evil bastard, but when his son called out his bad tactics he "only" scarred him for life and banished him from his home. if it was anyone else who called him out, they would have been dead like that* (I snapped my fingers, you couldn't hear it)

Goku is the selfless savior of the world and the entire universe many times over, and is only neglectful to his sons and wife. And to top it all off he gave Cell a sensu bean before Gohan fought with him. What kind of a father is that? A bad one, no, the worst one.
 

Drakmeire

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Out of the two I'd say Goku but worst father in Anime is the Shinigami from Soul Eater.
In the manga his son is trapped by a new enemy and being tortured only to later come. So to plan a rescue operation him and his closest colleagues decide to have a party and invite girls from the local hostess club to serve them booze.
even better is the fan theory that Death the Kid (The son of the Shinigami) was trapped for a full year and there was a slight timeskip in the manga, to justify the more mature look to all the main character.
So in the time the Shinigami is doing nothing, Kid is tortured physically (he didn't mind though) and psychologically only to eventually come face to face with a Ctuhulu-like monster due to his own insanity.
Good job, Mr. Death
 

Saltyk

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Sep 12, 2010
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Okay, I'll contend that Goku is not "father of the year". He's certainly not a great dad. But, he does have a lot of world saving to get done, so that's probably part of it. I'm certain Superman would be a horrible father, too. Just think about it. Moviebob even did an episode about why Superman should be single. Just extend that to why he should never have children.

Anyway, my vote is definitely for Ozai. He not only scarred and banished his own eldest child and son, but have you seen Azula? She's a psychopath! There's no way you can't blame that on her father. He favored her from an early age and pretty much let her get away with anything. He even sent his daughter to arrest his son (start of season 2). I could write a novel on how many screwed up things he has done to both his kids.

emeraldrafael said:
I dont know. On one hand I have to imagine Goku is mentally retarded since he just jets off on a whim. besides, maybe this is normal parenting in the Saiyan world. I mean, just looking at the way vegata grew up, maybe Goku's the easy going dad, and other saiyan dads just go off and spartan that stuff by leaving their kids on some alien planet and expecting them to come back home on their own.

On the other end, Ozai physically scarred his son. I get the honour thing, and how this is a different culture, but he physically scarred his soon with fire, which could have easily just burned him alive and killed him. At least Goku never actually attempted to kill his son.


I dont know. I guess i'd have to say Ozai, because no matter what Goku does, he can just dragon ball wish this stuff, and even while he was gone, his kids had a group of people. Zuko only had Iroh, and his mother for the early part of his life. And really, how bad of a father are you when your son actually comes back to you, realizes that you're a dick (again) and leaves you (again) and this time helps bring you down. At least Gohan (at first) didnt want to go with Piccolo on his own. Piccolo just stole him.

Plus Goku always had a good reason to not be there, as he was saving the world. So in a way, he's actually doing the greatest thing he can for his son, by saving him. And Goku spent enough time with his sons while he was alive, and even left the planet and searched the galaxy with Pam.

Decision: Ozai

EDIT:

Yosato said:
Goku knew he wasnt strong enough to beat Cell, but Gohan was. However Gohan is a pacifist (something Goku accepts and tells him its oka, and he only has to fight when his friends are in a very real threat of danger), so he needed to have him pushed. Lets not forget that Gohan does manage to summon the power taught to him by his father to beat cell then spares him (a lesson he learned from hsi father). THen cell is his dick self and threatens to blwo up the world and look who sacrifices himself so that hsi sons and friends can live (hint: its Goku). Then when Cell comes BACK fromt he dead, Goku reaches from the dead to help his son summon the confidence and power to beat cell (again), before congratulating his son and telling him what a great job he did and how proud of him he is.

Also, Gohan didnt RUN to piccolo, he was KIDNAPPED by piccolo initially, and developed a stockholm syndrome to him. Goku was kinda dead (what with sacrificing his body to save the world and his son [who he specifically mentions as doing this for]) so he couldnt really do anything about that. then afterworld, Piccolo became an uncle figure to Gohan, and arguably the only reason Piccolo didnt just destroy the shit out of the planet (besides kami). So even then, Goku oncce again saved the world, turned the heart of an evil to good, and gave his son soeone who could watch over him and protect him while Goku was gone. Goku set it up for Gohan to have a father figure, and even then Gohan still thought that Goku as his father, and the big parental father figure in his life.

Ozai just said get the fuck out, not even caring enough to give Zuko someone to travel with, and Iroh left with Zuko out of the good of Iroh's heart and love for his nephew in place of his lost son.

Gohan learned all the greatest lessons in life from his father, or his friends (who had been influenced or taught by Goku). Zuko pretty mch had to reject everything his father taught him to even have a chance in society. At least Gohan had a place among friends, and could get by. Goku never said dont study, he just said lets have fun. If anything, Goku saved his son from being so socially inept after all that book learning.
While I'll agree with most of what you said, I feel one small thing needs to be addressed. You say that Gohan spared Cell. He didn't. Gohan was not trying to give Cell a chance to make amends. Hell, even Goku wanted Gohan to kill Cell. Gohan made the choice to NOT kill Cell because he wanted to make Cell suffer.
Here's the page from manga reader. (sorry the quality isn't better on this one)
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3061-2/dragon-ball/chapter-412.html

And in case you're wondering why Gohan would have such an uncharacteristic moment as this, it's actually quite easy. The Super Saiyan form is a form of anger and rage. Even Goku had trouble maintaining his composure, at first. The initial transformation generally requires a great deal of anger, which is one problem. But it's been stated that they all become more aggressive, angry, and even spiteful in their Super Saiyan states. That includes Goku and Gohan.

Just trying to maintain a level of factual accuracy.
[sub]I know way too much about this series...[/sub]

newwiseman said:
emeraldrafael said:
Aprilgold said:
... *why there aren't any Female saiyans* ... Seriously, the only thing I don't approve of is him dying to go train when there were other options, like, I don't know, GUNS FOR GODS SAKE!
Isnt Pan a saiyan? and I could have swore that Vegeta's daughter (bulla?) is one.

Plus theres an entire planet of them, and I saw a few females. There was even one in bardock (gokus father)'s crew. Now are there any Female super saiyans, i have no idea. I think only Pan would be, but I might be wrong.

Also, guns against who? A gun didnt work agaisnt Raditz, and havent been shown to work on any of the people that came to earth to destroy it (though oddly swords do), so I wouldnt imaginea gun is a good idea.
Because Toriyama, along with being racist, is sexist. He stated females can't be super sayians in an interview. *edit oh and they all died with the planet Vegeta, but ya Pan is a quarter and Bulla is half. That is if you follow the GT canon.
Where did you hear that? As I heard it, Toriyama has said that only those that are half saiyan or more can become Super Saiyans. In other words, Pan can not be a Super Saiyan, but Bra/Bulla technically could. However, she doesn't fight and is more of a spoiled brat, kinda like Bulma. Therefore, she doesn't have the strenght required. I believe it's been stated that Saiyans need a certain minimum power to even be able to become Super Saiyans or their body won't be able to handle the stress of the transformation. Also, Saiyans have to have pure hearts to become Super Saiyans. Goku is pure good and Vegeta was pure evil. I doubt Bra/Bulla could count as either. And finally the Super Saiyan form can only be achieved by a true need. You can't simply want it. Like when Goku became a Super Saiyan after Frieza killed Krillin. Something else I doubt Bra/Bulla would ever have occur as she's more a shopper than a fighter.
 

RedDeadFred

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May 13, 2009
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Rappletek said:
your both wrong, Darth vader.. anime sucks
(so does star wars a little bit)
This. Who cares if he came around just in time to die. He still murders a whole bunch of children and his daughter's home planet.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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As Goku is a personal hero of mine, I'm resisting the urge to rage on you for even considering him as a candidate for this. Instead I'll just point out that you've ignored at least two time skips that occurred during the series during which time Goku was at home with his wife and kids. 3 if you want to count the 5 year gap between the original series and Dragon Ball Z.
 

emeraldrafael

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Saltyk said:
...

emeraldrafael said:
While I'll agree with most of what you said, I feel one small thing needs to be addressed. You say that Gohan spared Cell. He didn't. Gohan was not trying to give Cell a chance to make amends. Hell, even Goku wanted Gohan to kill Cell. Gohan made the choice to NOT kill Cell because he wanted to make Cell suffer.
Here's the page from manga reader. (sorry the quality isn't better on this one)
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3061-2/dragon-ball/chapter-412.html

And in case you're wondering why Gohan would have such an uncharacteristic moment as this, it's actually quite easy. The Super Saiyan form is a form of anger and rage. Even Goku had trouble maintaining his composure, at first. The initial transformation generally requires a great deal of anger, which is one problem. But it's been stated that they all become more aggressive, angry, and even spiteful in their Super Saiyan states. That includes Goku and Gohan.

Just trying to maintain a level of factual accuracy.
[sub]I know way too much about this series...[/sub]

...
Oh, sorry. Its been a while since I watched the show. But i think i was spot on with most of it. aside from him sparing cell. at least on the personality level.
 

Saltyk

Sane among the insane.
Sep 12, 2010
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emeraldrafael said:
Saltyk said:
...

emeraldrafael said:
While I'll agree with most of what you said, I feel one small thing needs to be addressed. You say that Gohan spared Cell. He didn't. Gohan was not trying to give Cell a chance to make amends. Hell, even Goku wanted Gohan to kill Cell. Gohan made the choice to NOT kill Cell because he wanted to make Cell suffer.
Here's the page from manga reader. (sorry the quality isn't better on this one)
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3061-2/dragon-ball/chapter-412.html

And in case you're wondering why Gohan would have such an uncharacteristic moment as this, it's actually quite easy. The Super Saiyan form is a form of anger and rage. Even Goku had trouble maintaining his composure, at first. The initial transformation generally requires a great deal of anger, which is one problem. But it's been stated that they all become more aggressive, angry, and even spiteful in their Super Saiyan states. That includes Goku and Gohan.

Just trying to maintain a level of factual accuracy.
[sub]I know way too much about this series...[/sub]

...
Oh, sorry. Its been a while since I watched the show. But i think i was spot on with most of it. aside from him sparing cell. at least on the personality level.
No worries. I only know because with all the DBZ themed things out there, like Team Four Star's Dragonball Z Abridged, I got interested to watch a few old episodes. I had completely forgotten that Gohan wanted to make Cell suffer as well. It kinda shocked me. Also, checked the manga and it is definitely canon. I got curious as to why and found the wiki. Gotta love the internet!
 

deserteagleeye

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Goku. But in his defense, he kind of tries to help Gohan even though he's horrible at it. He only has good intentions, but that of an oblivious 5-year-old. Sure Ozai's a dick, but you kind of have to be in his position.
 

xXAsherahXx

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Goku is fucking terrible as a father, but Ozai wins. He is WILLING to hurt Zuko, Goku just wants to knock him down.

Dragonball Z is the best anime ever by the way. Couldn't help the fanboyism, sorry.
 

mega48man

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I like dan, he doesn't like anime. but if i had to pick between either of these characters, i'd pick ozai. at least goku was a nice person at heart. if my dad scorched my face, kicked me out of the house, and was essentially hitler going world conquest, i'd fuckin kill him.

if i was a embarrassed to be around my dad 24/7 cuz he's pretty eccentric, i wouldn't mind a little distance. but i don't see why goku making gohan fight is a problem. if i was a sayain and i had a son, i'd make sure i'd raise my son like a proper sayain making sure he has the ability to do super power shit. it's like the spartans and their sons;

Leonidas-"what a glorious day for combat, so what are you up to my son? readying for battle?"
his son-"i'm gonna be a famous singer and i'll one day sing for all of greece!"
Leonidas-" =_= i am dissapoint".

ozai's son, i forget their wierd anime names, was being raised the way ozai wanted him to, and then BAM, face melter fuck u out the door. i'd be fucking pissed.
 

Digital_Hero

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Goku is definitely the worst father. For all the reasons stated before this post.

Ozai is bad, but not goku bad.
 

Keepeas

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Ozai...why is this even a debate?
Ozai tries to kill Zuko multiple times.
He's made of "the stuff guys need" ads.("the stuff guys need" ads = Pure Evil)

Goku on the other hand saves the World multiple times...which saves his son.
Sure he's stupid and nearly get kills Gohon killed a few times, but he always made decisions to save the world and those whom he loves.

Another note:
Saiyans are commonly 'abandoned' at birth and sent off to other planets to wipe out all life.
It's part of Saiyan culture to grow up without parents.

They are both pretty bad fathers...but Ozai is Definitely worse.

Btw:
Both of these shows are my favorite 'anime'.
Though I'm not sure Avatar counts as an anime...sure it has heavy influences from Japanese anime...
but I still think it's anime style and not true anime.
 

leviadragon99

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Screw Dan, ATLA is a very good show, irrespective of whether it's anime or not, and his dismissal of it out of hand speaks poorly of him.

But yeah, Ozai goes out of his way to be a dick while Goku is just negligent.
 

The Random One

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Oh man, this was one of the best episodes yet. Even Dan really shined. Too bad he shirked his judge duties.

I'll refrain from answering, since it's hard to tell which is worse, criminally oblivious, or just criminal.