Nobel laureate forced out of studies after making joke about women

[Superbeast]

So, on the topic of "Was it a joke or not" I'll accept I probably should have put "Joke" as a quote.

However, to explain it a bit more fully, Sir Tim Hunt has given the impression that the comment was intended to be an ironic dig at his own experiences in the field, particularly in regards to his wife.

Now, I'm not a critic of comedy, however, I can see how one would mention briefly and in a jovial manner the circumstances. Especially in light of the fact he was at a conference for women, and thus clearly was not there to mock women.

Sir Hunt has also given the impression that he stands by what he said and meant it fully, too, and that he is only sorry he got caught saying this shit in public:

He told the BBC he "did mean" the remarks but was "really sorry"...adding it was "a very stupid thing to do in the presence of all those journalists"..."I just meant to be honest, actually."...He went on to say he stood by some of the remarks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33077107

Also, you say it was a "brief mention", but people who were at the talk disagree:

"The Korean female scientists who hosted us looked aghast and he just ploughed on for about five to seven minutes."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33077107

As a Noble Laureate you are essentially a scientific ambassador to the wider world, as a professor you are a representative of your university, and whilst speaking in a professional capacity such as at an industry conference you are expected to be professional. All are reasons that the University has a right to fire him for inappropriate comments - comments such as his can be argued to harm the perception of science and deter bright minds who would otherwise be interested in following scientific careers.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Hahahahahahahahah. Holy shit the responses to this thread are fucking ridiculous. "Muh freedom of speech." It doesn't matter what your views on "freedom of speech" or "SJWs" are. He wasn't making a joke to coworkers or some shit like that. The man was making a public speech as a guest at a luncheon and insulted his entire audience while officially representing his employer. Ya know, kinda like all those journalists that wrote those stupid "gamers are dead" articles, except worse because it's in a goddamn professional and educational environment. And no, it wasn't even a joke. He just claimed that it was once a shitstorm started brewing to try and alleviate it. The man getting fired is just standard business handling of such an issue. The people complaining about him getting fired clearly have no understanding of professionalism or business and workplace standards.

Like, holy shit. Choose your fucking battles better. Both sides. Instead of claiming that every instance of "SJW political correctness" or every instance of "misogyny" is the end of the fucking world, maybe take a little fucking context into consideration and stop being such a blind extremist?

Heh, that's a good point. The context he chose to say it in would make it particularly unprofessional.

And the bit about the game journalist thing seems particularly relevant. He said something that was definitely insulting to his audience, particularly given the insistence on it being honest.

 

[Silvanus]

...Or maybe this guy is a real world-class scumbag, but he would never have been busted under normal circumstances, except for the Twitter-storm.

Well, maybe, but that's pure speculation on your part. A disciplinary procedure which relies on Twitter-storms to function doesn't seem a rational assumption.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Seems like there's a fundamental difference in values here. Everyone acknowledges that it's fine (perhaps even fun) to talk like this in the company of friends, but whereas some would actively discourage that kind of behavior in public forums, I think that it's a damn shame that we can't appreciate such mild and clearly hyperbolic ribbing as this. It suggests a severe lack of sense of humor.

What gives you the impression we'd all find it fine with friends? Unless it was sarcasm I'd think significantly less of someone for saying that kind of shit and thinking there was some kind of truth in it. It kind of matters why it's supposed to be funny. If it's supposed to be funny because you think the sexist ideas are true well...

 

[Nerva]

Holy ass that's a huge tl;dr I shat out there. #NoRegerts

...Or maybe this guy is a real world-class scumbag, but he would never have been busted under normal circumstances, except for the Twitter-storm.

Wow. I didn't know that being a scumbag became a crime in England. Or even something determinable. Did I miss the news?

Is he going to jail? No?

Is treating scum like scum a crime?

 

[Nerva]

...Or maybe this guy is a real world-class scumbag, but he would never have been busted under normal circumstances, except for the Twitter-storm.

Well, maybe, but that's pure speculation on your part. A disciplinary procedure which relies on Twitter-storms to function doesn't seem a rational assumption.

I will express my feelings on the subject of someone being damned by their own mouth thusly:

First, in the immortal words of Dennis Hopper, "A single tear rolls down my cheek."

But really, no one man can capture the desolation of spirit that I think we all feel when considering this poor good man, who's only mistake was to be a horrid human being in public.

Or can a man? Or a Doctor?

Spoiler

Nailed it.

 

[Nerva]

If it's supposed to be funny because you think the sexist ideas are true well...

I wonder if I will destroy your world if I say that for a lot of people "How they feel about things" and "How they think things should be" are two VERY different categories?

For a self-avowed fascist, I'd have to assume you fall into that category? I mean, it's unlikely that what you represent would be tolerated in any genuinely fascist regime, so I assume your feelings are at some deep odds with the reality of rooting for your own extinction?

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

If it's supposed to be funny because you think the sexist ideas are true well...

I wonder if I will destroy your world if I say that for a lot of people "How they feel about things" and "How they think things should be" are two VERY different categories?

And that is relevant how?

Sexism certainly *could* involve how people think things should be. Thing is, it doesn't need to involve that to be sexism. How one thinks things are could just as easily qualify for sexism. For example, someone who feels women are inferior but should be treated the same is still a sexist. You'd shatter more worlds with more relevant replies perhaps.

 

[visiblenoise]

Seems like there's a fundamental difference in values here. Everyone acknowledges that it's fine (perhaps even fun) to talk like this in the company of friends, but whereas some would actively discourage that kind of behavior in public forums, I think that it's a damn shame that we can't appreciate such mild and clearly hyperbolic ribbing as this. It suggests a severe lack of sense of humor.

What gives you the impression we'd all find it fine with friends? Unless it was sarcasm I'd think significantly less of someone for saying that kind of shit and thinking there was some kind of truth in it. It kind of matters why it's supposed to be funny. If it's supposed to be funny because you think the sexist ideas are true well...

Of course it's sarcasm. Do you really think the the problem this guy claims to have is applicable to all girls, as he says?

It's supposed to be funny (I'd say it's more cheeky than funny) because the sexist idea may have a whiff of truth in it and this is being mocked.

I'll accept that not everyone cares for this type of behavior with friends, but I don't accept that any of this needs to be taken seriously.

 

[Nerva]

Seems like there's a fundamental difference in values here. Everyone acknowledges that it's fine (perhaps even fun) to talk like this in the company of friends, but whereas some would actively discourage that kind of behavior in public forums, I think that it's a damn shame that we can't appreciate such mild and clearly hyperbolic ribbing as this. It suggests a severe lack of sense of humor.

What gives you the impression we'd all find it fine with friends? Unless it was sarcasm I'd think significantly less of someone for saying that kind of shit and thinking there was some kind of truth in it. It kind of matters why it's supposed to be funny. If it's supposed to be funny because you think the sexist ideas are true well...

Of course it's sarcasm. Do you really think the the problem this guy claims to have is applicable to all girls, as he says?

It's supposed to be funny (I'd say it's more cheeky than funny) because the sexist idea may have a whiff of truth in it and this is being mocked.

I'll accept that not everyone cares for this type of behavior with friends, but I don't accept that any of this needs to be taken seriously.

ProTip: Women don't like to be called girls, anymore than men like to be called boys. I think you may just be someone with views that most of us find objectionable, but have a bunch of friends with the same views? Your choice of of course, but lets not pretend that's the norm, or right.

 

[CaitSeith]

*sigh*
Go here [http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-tim-hunt] and here [http://www.change.org/p/university-college-london-ucl-reinstate-tim-hunt] and do something for that person.

 

[visiblenoise]

Seems like there's a fundamental difference in values here. Everyone acknowledges that it's fine (perhaps even fun) to talk like this in the company of friends, but whereas some would actively discourage that kind of behavior in public forums, I think that it's a damn shame that we can't appreciate such mild and clearly hyperbolic ribbing as this. It suggests a severe lack of sense of humor.

What gives you the impression we'd all find it fine with friends? Unless it was sarcasm I'd think significantly less of someone for saying that kind of shit and thinking there was some kind of truth in it. It kind of matters why it's supposed to be funny. If it's supposed to be funny because you think the sexist ideas are true well...

Of course it's sarcasm. Do you really think the the problem this guy claims to have is applicable to all girls, as he says?

It's supposed to be funny (I'd say it's more cheeky than funny) because the sexist idea may have a whiff of truth in it and this is being mocked.

I'll accept that not everyone cares for this type of behavior with friends, but I don't accept that any of this needs to be taken seriously.

ProTip: Women don't like to be called girls, anymore than men like to be called boys. I think you may just be someone with views that most of us find objectionable, but have a bunch of friends with the same views? Your choice of of course, but lets not pretend that's the norm, or right.

There are no views involved here, unless you're referring to the view that things are taken seriously too often.

Also, it was the guy who said "girls," I just didn't think it warranted being quoted...

 

[Nerva]

Seems like there's a fundamental difference in values here. Everyone acknowledges that it's fine (perhaps even fun) to talk like this in the company of friends, but whereas some would actively discourage that kind of behavior in public forums, I think that it's a damn shame that we can't appreciate such mild and clearly hyperbolic ribbing as this. It suggests a severe lack of sense of humor.

What gives you the impression we'd all find it fine with friends? Unless it was sarcasm I'd think significantly less of someone for saying that kind of shit and thinking there was some kind of truth in it. It kind of matters why it's supposed to be funny. If it's supposed to be funny because you think the sexist ideas are true well...

Of course it's sarcasm. Do you really think the the problem this guy claims to have is applicable to all girls, as he says?

It's supposed to be funny (I'd say it's more cheeky than funny) because the sexist idea may have a whiff of truth in it and this is being mocked.

I'll accept that not everyone cares for this type of behavior with friends, but I don't accept that any of this needs to be taken seriously.

ProTip: Women don't like to be called girls, anymore than men like to be called boys. I think you may just be someone with views that most of us find objectionable, but have a bunch of friends with the same views? Your choice of of course, but lets not pretend that's the norm, or right.

There are no views involved here, unless you're referring to the view that things are taken seriously too often.

Also, it was the guy who said "girls," I just didn't think it warranted being quoted...

Suuuuure. Do you also have some beachfront property in Arizona for me?

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Yeah, there's some things you just don't say in worldwide conference when representing your university. "Black people shouldn't be let in labs because they'll steal all your shit", "My coworker is such an utter *****", and, of course "Women shouldn't work alongside men in science because they're too hyper-emotional".

As people said, this pretty clearly wasn't a joke. It wasn't even claimed to be a joke until recently, and his own wife implied that while she doesn't think he's sexist, this is his opinion on the matter.

I don't know, maybe you don't someone in a hiring and grading (if he teaches classes) position when it seems they're ideologically opposed to the idea of women working alongside men in science. I'm sure if we saw the opposite, where a woman said that men shouldn't be in labs with women because they're too sex crazed to focus, then this thread would be calling for her to be fired. Already seen plenty of people calling for that with what journalists said about gamers.

You say stupid shit while representing your place of employment in a large, worldwide event, you'll get fired. It's not an issue of SJW's gone mad, it's just what happens when you do something that makes your company look really bad.

EDIT:

While some people might think the response was too strong, and despite my post I am not sure that I would have fired him (Maybe have some regulation and supervision over his hiring and grading practices?), a lot of the response has been pretty good natured, mocking the comment as opposed to harassing the person:

Spoiler: for example

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Sir Tim Hunt, a noble prize winning scientist has been forced to leave his posts in University College London and The Royal Society after making a comment about women he described as were meant to be "ironic" and "jocular".

The statement in question is as followed:

"Let me tell you about my trouble with girls ? three things happen when they are in the lab ? You fall in love with them, they fall in love with you and when you criticise them, they cry."

Tim Hunt made the statement at an event titled: "Creative Science?Only a Game?" which was a lunch for female journalists and scientists.

After making this statement, he was accused of being sexist, and following a series of events described as "Hounding" despite issuing an apology, and expressing regret over the joke, he claims he was told that he should "Resign or be sacked" by the college.

Various female scientists have come out in defence of the Nobel Laureate, in particular Dame Athene Donald has been running a blog on the issue and supporting a petition to bring the 72 year old biochemist back to his positions.

Source: Here! [http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/13/tim-hunt-hung-out-to-dry-interview-mary-collins]

The guy is seventy-two. Way back when he was in his prime what he described probably actually happened to the extent that it was joked about. It isn't like he is married to a female professor or anything. Oh wait, he is totally married to a female professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Collins_%28immunologist%29]. Any decent reasonable human being that isn't out there with an ax to grind would have realised that it was a joke.

 

[visiblenoise]

Seems like there's a fundamental difference in values here. Everyone acknowledges that it's fine (perhaps even fun) to talk like this in the company of friends, but whereas some would actively discourage that kind of behavior in public forums, I think that it's a damn shame that we can't appreciate such mild and clearly hyperbolic ribbing as this. It suggests a severe lack of sense of humor.

What gives you the impression we'd all find it fine with friends? Unless it was sarcasm I'd think significantly less of someone for saying that kind of shit and thinking there was some kind of truth in it. It kind of matters why it's supposed to be funny. If it's supposed to be funny because you think the sexist ideas are true well...

Of course it's sarcasm. Do you really think the the problem this guy claims to have is applicable to all girls, as he says?

It's supposed to be funny (I'd say it's more cheeky than funny) because the sexist idea may have a whiff of truth in it and this is being mocked.

I'll accept that not everyone cares for this type of behavior with friends, but I don't accept that any of this needs to be taken seriously.

ProTip: Women don't like to be called girls, anymore than men like to be called boys. I think you may just be someone with views that most of us find objectionable, but have a bunch of friends with the same views? Your choice of of course, but lets not pretend that's the norm, or right.

There are no views involved here, unless you're referring to the view that things are taken seriously too often.

Also, it was the guy who said "girls," I just didn't think it warranted being quoted...

Suuuuure. Do you also have some beachfront property in Arizona for me?

That's more like it!

 

[Bat Vader]

I agree. People need to stop whinging and need to start fighting. If someone is offended by what someone else is saying they should just haul off and slug the person as hard as they can. It's like the Westboro baptist people. Those idiots deserve to have their jaws broken.

On the other hand, that reaction could get you in trouble really quickly.
As a general rule, manning up and accepting that some people's world vision offends us and that's absolutely fine would be preferreable.

This. So much this.

Somehow, the whole Social Justice Jihad has changed perception to a state where "your rights end where my rights being to" "your rights end where I am offended!". And that just shouldn't be the case. I don't want to live in a world where I have to walk on eggshells out of fear that I will be punished, either by a deranged mob or by actual institutions, that I hurt someones feelings with a harmless joke.

I disagree. I view it as more giving people's fists freedom of speech as well. If someone on the GG side doesn't like what an SJW is saying I think they should have the full right to beat the crap out of them in a fair and legal fight. It would sure as hell make the situation more fun.

In some states there are those legal fights that people can have with a cop watching. I think it should be like that.

 

[EvilRoy]

I'm honestly disappointed that a brilliant mind is being ostracized from a scientific field he is still capable of greatly contributing to for what is a fairly minor offence. Its one thing to loudly dislike a person, its another thing to actually delay morally conducted research in favor of punishing a person for thinking differently.

That said, this is the world we now live in. The court of public opinion is the only one that matters anymore, and some are suited to play it while others are not.

 

[Silvanus]

I will express my feelings on the subject of someone being damned by their own mouth thusly:

First, in the immortal words of Dennis Hopper, "A single tear rolls down my cheek."

But really, no one man can capture the desolation of spirit that I think we all feel when considering this poor good man, who's only mistake was to be a horrid human being in public.

Or can a man? Or a Doctor?

Spoiler

Nailed it.

I'm not terribly interested in grandstanding, so I'll bow out.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

The guy is seventy-two. Way back when he was in his prime what he described probably actually happened to the extent that it was joked about. It isn't like he is married to a female professor or anything. Oh wait, he is totally married to a female professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Collins_%28immunologist%29]. Any decent reasonable human being that isn't out there with an ax to grind would have realised that it was a joke.

I suppose that any decent reasonable human being that isn't out there with an ax to grind would have also ignored the part where he said that he meant what he said and that he was just being honest for the several minutes he went on about women?

I'm sincerely sorry if a seventy-two year old man's recollections of how the sixties were like offends you. Would you like me to roll you up in bubble wrap before the world causes you anymore grief today?