Nobel laureate forced out of studies after making joke about women

[Lovely Mixture]

I know what you're SAYING, I'm asking how what you're saying isn't on the same level is "They're raping our women" or "They're stealing our jobs". It's a straw man, a bogyman you're trotting out in place of real points.

Be afraid of what MIGHT happen, not what IS happening or HAS happened. Old trick from the big book of FUD.

Then why did you phrase it as "Can you please show how that's what I've done" ? Accusatory no?

And I said it cause it already has happened.

Mr. Taylor's shirt getting declared harmful and preventative of women entering tech.

Chuck Palahniuk getting accused of being a misogynist for suggesting that there aren't many books in literary classes that discuss men's issues.

Jerry Seinfeld being called racist for saying that people are too politically correct.

The many videogame controversies that have been brought up in these past two years because of someone getting upset at a joke or getting offended at lack of representation. The "transphobic" joke in Pillars of Eternity springs to mind.

 

[Lightknight]

Yeah, women are far more likely to cry in response to criticism. It's a natural defense mechanism that totally works and it isn't even "manipulative" or "bad" because it is entirely automatic (for the most part).

It's a funny statement. Ask any professor about who cries to get better grades and you won't blink twice at this guy's comment. This is primarily an issue in academia. Seems like people grow out of this.

 

[Superbeast]

Yeah, women are far more likely to cry in response to criticism. It's a natural defense mechanism that totally works and it isn't even "manipulative" or "bad" because it is entirely automatic (for the most part).

It's a funny statement. Ask any professor about who cries to get better grades and you won't blink twice at this guy's comment. This is primarily an issue in academia. Seems like people grow out of this.

If you know of professors that are inflating their students grades because they cry, I hope you have well documented evidence that you are planning on handing to their superiors for disciplinary action. That sounds corrupt as fuck, and they should not remain in the profession if that is the case. It also sounds a bit sinister if they are pointing it towards one gender, as if the professor is hoping to get some sort of favourable perception from said students. That is definitely something their faculty should be investigating post haste.

 

[Lightknight]

Yeah, women are far more likely to cry in response to criticism. It's a natural defense mechanism that totally works and it isn't even "manipulative" or "bad" because it is entirely automatic (for the most part).

You have proof of that, or is this simply adding stereotype upon stereotype? Or is this is sarcasm? I cannot tell with this one.

What? It's an incredibly well documented and heavily studied sex-based behavior differentiator.

Here's the first summary of the disparity I found.

http://www.sacredheartspectrum.com/news/view.php/663981/The-Crying-Game-Why-Women-Cry-More-Than-

While boys and girls cry about the same time up until the age of 12, by 18 women cry an average of four times more than men. So, about 5.3 cries per month for women compared to 1.4 cries per month for men.

Women also cry for much longer (twice as long) than men do in any given crying session. (Women cry around 6 minutes on average, men are between 2 and 3 minutes)

The cause for this isn't certain but it is known to be true.

A couple theories are (could be a combination of some or all):

1. Social conditioning (guys are told not to be a sissy, girls are taught to share their emotions). The problem with this theory is that women still cry more than men in all other societies, including ones where all groups are discouraged from showing emotion. So this can't be THE cause, but can contribute to the degree of disparity.
2. Prolactin, a hormone that is equally present in boys and girls before 12 but far more present in women (60% more than in men)that is known to be for inducing lactation but is also found in the tear ducts.
3. Men and Women's tear ducts are different. When men cry, 73% of the time the tears do not run down the cheek and instead stay in the eyes. Nearly every instance of females crying leads to tears running down the cheek.
4. Women feel the urge to cry in response to stress far more than men which is specific to work and school .
5. Testosterone may inhibit crying.
6. Other non-prolactin hormonal imbalances common to women but not men that are known to induce emotional imbalance(for example, women cry far more just before and during their period).

If you want something more official, here's the American Psychological Association

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/02/cry.aspx

Here's a fun quote for you to mull over from that article: "Several factors play a role in an individual's propensity to cry. Gender differences in crying, for example, have been explored for decades and across the world, and all of the studies reached the same conclusion: Women cry more than men." (Emphasis is mine)

So this point is absolutely fact. The question is why women evolved to cry more than males. It should be assumed that it provides some sort of biological advantage like most traits and I believe it to be a socially advantageous one. It isn't a manipulative one, since it is involuntary, but it is something that triggers an emotional response from the person causing the tears. Perhaps a professor that has the power to help them with a bad grade, perhaps a captor who would otherwise have killed the individual, perhaps a boss who is giving them a hard time.

It's fantastic to see people jumping down others throats when they think they're getting a whiff of sexism, but when it's fact, it's fact and no amount of attacking me or my words is going to detract from that truth. Sorry that this scientist made a factually accurate joke and people decided to burn him at the stake for it in ignorance.

Yeah, women are far more likely to cry in response to criticism. It's a natural defense mechanism that totally works and it isn't even "manipulative" or "bad" because it is entirely automatic (for the most part).

It's a funny statement. Ask any professor about who cries to get better grades and you won't blink twice at this guy's comment. This is primarily an issue in academia. Seems like people grow out of this.

If you know of professors that are inflating their students grades because they cry, I hope you have well documented evidence that you are planning on handing to their superiors for disciplinary action. That sounds corrupt as fuck, and they should not remain in the profession if that is the case. It also sounds a bit sinister if they are pointing it towards one gender, as if the professor is hoping to get some sort of favourable perception from said students. That is definitely something their faculty should be investigating post haste.

The three instances I personally witnessed were more the professor making exceptions for the individual by giving them an opportunity to make up some work rather than simple grade inflation. One of three the professor made an exception for the crying girl (after having told me no, but I wasn't crying) but gave the exception to the entire class to benefit from which I thought is the way to do it if you're going to do it ethically. But that professor's problem was that his test questions mirrored the book's test questions but gave wrong/different answers. Why he told me no to begin with when I clearly showed those problems in the books having a different answer is beyond me. But I guess that's what to expect when a chemist tries to teach chemistry in a language he barely knows.

 

[Lightknight]

It does happen of course, just like there are always crooked cops, bad judges, and prison guards who help two killers escape. You can always find terrible anecdotes to terrify the unwary.

Is it the norm though? More, when it occurs, does it normally go undetected and unpunished? These are answers we will not be getting from Mr. Knight I think. We may get more claims, more anecdotes, and eventually being dismissed as a "Subversive Element" or whatever term is in fashion here and now.

Right, it'd be something that's nearly impossible to prove except anecdotally. Have I seen women benefit from crying in school and work? Absolutely. Does that make it a universal truth? Absolutely not. But I have heard an awful lot of comparable claims to dismiss it, especially combined with the medical fact that most women cry easily at stress.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

This is just too much of a mess for me to touch, sorry. I don't care about any of this "Cultural Cause" thing Americans, Brits and Canadians are so hard for.

Oh no, an author and the richest comedian on Earth were called names?!

"Hey Malala! Yeah, give it up honey, you should see how Jerry Seinfeld has it!"

Ok, sorry it's hard for you come up with an argument.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

This is just too much of a mess for me to touch, sorry. I don't care about any of this "Cultural Cause" thing Americans, Brits and Canadians are so hard for.

Oh no, an author and the richest comedian on Earth were called names?!

"Hey Malala! Yeah, give it up honey, you should see how Jerry Seinfeld has it!"

Ok, sorry it's hard for you come up with an argument.

As a reply, that is full of more irony than I could describe in a single sentence. Sorry that it didn't turn out Jerry Seinfeld is terribly persecuted in a way that anyone cares about.

If you have nothing to say, you don't need to keep moving the goalpost.

 

[Lightknight]

Yeah, women are far more likely to cry in response to criticism. It's a natural defense mechanism that totally works and it isn't even "manipulative" or "bad" because it is entirely automatic (for the most part).

You have proof of that, or is this simply adding stereotype upon stereotype? Or is this is sarcasm? I cannot tell with this one.

What? It's an incredibly well documented and heavily studied sex-based behavior differentiator.

Here's the first summary of the disparity I found.

http://www.sacredheartspectrum.com/news/view.php/663981/The-Crying-Game-Why-Women-Cry-More-Than-

SNIP

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/02/cry.aspx

SNIP

Do you understand the difference between a study and an article? I asked for PROOF, not a page of what you thought, as written by people who think like you.

What? Those were articles citing and describing numerous studies and their findings.

Do you really think the American Psychological Association thinks like me? Thanks, because they're usually right and are a definitive source on this kind of topic. Here's some of the cited studies from the APA article that you clearly couldn't be bothered to read:

Lauren Bylsma, PhD, of the University of Pittsburgh (Journal of Research in Personality, 2011 (they also referenced the 1980 study by biochemist William H. Frey, PhD that mirrored the same results). These studies found that women cry four times as much as men.

http://ccr.sagepub.com/content/45/4/399.short (in which women cry more than men across all cultures and societies)

http://www.epjournal.net/articles/emotional-tears-facilitate-the-recognition-of-sadness-and-the-perceived-need-for-social-support/ (In which a clear biological advantage is established for people who display tears than people who don't)

All of the points I made were entirely sourced and cited. You've got no leg to stand on here.

Rates of women crying, as opposed to rates of women crying as a means to manipulate (and of course the trouble with trying to pigeonhole more than 3.5 billion diverse individuals) is not interesting or relevant.

The studies I presented show that women cry under stress. One of the articles discussed how this is an issue in the workplace and linked to organizations and resources that help women learn how not to cry at work.

I'm not sure what more you want. If official peer-reviewed studies and pro-women articles written by women aimed at assisting women with this issue isn't enough then maybe it's time for you to put up your own articles proving your counterpoint that women don't cry at work or under stress in far higher numbers than men. Good luck.

 

[Superbeast]

SNIP

I'm going to split this up to reply as I have different thoughts about the different events, if that's ok? Also, what level of education are we talking about - I saw "professor" and assumed either college (16-18) or university (18+) level.

The three instances I personally witnessed were more the professor making exceptions for the individual by giving them an opportunity to make up some work rather than simple grade inflation.

At the higher education establishments I have attended, if you wanted an extension you needed to get it from your faculty's Welfare Officer before the deadline of the assignment (barring extreme circumstances such as hospitalisation on submission day etc.). Once the deadline was passed you lost a certain percentage per day. The papers were delivered to administration staff and had to be submitted electronically to ensure that no-one was being given unfair extensions from a certain professor.

Grade inflation should be virtually impossible in a properly set up system too. Our professors did not mark our own work (it can even be people without any subject knowledge entirely marking to a mark-scheme) and then the papers are sent off for second marking/verification by independent adjudicators unaffiliated with the educational institution.

One of three the professor made an exception for the crying girl (after having told me no, but I wasn't crying) but gave the exception to the entire class to benefit from which I thought is the way to do it if you're going to do it ethically.

I suppose offering it to the whole class is better than select individuals. Also, he may well have refused you, but upon realising that more students had the same issue (implying errors of communication regarding the task on his end) changed his mind - after all, he did not just give it to the crying girl but the whole class. I really cannot say though as I was not there!

But that professor's problem was that his test questions mirrored the book's test questions but gave wrong/different answers. Why he told me no to begin with when I clearly showed those problems in the books having a different answer is beyond me. But I guess that's what to expect when a chemist tries to teach chemistry in a language he barely knows.

That is just bizarre, and I hope was taken up with other members of the chemistry staff, even if not in an official capacity. Surely the answers could not have been that different either, given that chemical structures and mathematical formulae don't change in translation (or was it all text-based explanatory answers)? If the language barrier was that severe then it does create questions about what they were doing teaching there in the first place!

It all seems so odd given my experiences in education. Hopefully from me explaining my own position and experience you can see why I thought your claims odd.

 

[Lightknight]

Yeah, women are far more likely to cry in response to criticism. It's a natural defense mechanism that totally works and it isn't even "manipulative" or "bad" because it is entirely automatic (for the most part).

You have proof of that, or is this simply adding stereotype upon stereotype? Or is this is sarcasm? I cannot tell with this one.

What? It's an incredibly well documented and heavily studied sex-based behavior differentiator.

Here's the first summary of the disparity I found.

http://www.sacredheartspectrum.com/news/view.php/663981/The-Crying-Game-Why-Women-Cry-More-Than-

SNIP

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/02/cry.aspx

SNIP

Do you understand the difference between a study and an article? I asked for PROOF, not a page of what you thought, as written by people who think like you.

What? Those were articles citing and describing numerous studies and their findings.

Do you really think the American Psychological Association thinks like me?

I don't know, I don't know how you think compared to an enormous organization. It may be that you think like the article's author however. You didn't need that obvious attempt to shift the weight of authority from the author to the organization though; those twin fallacies were implicit in your original citation.

Thanks, because they're usually right and are a definitive source on this kind of topic.

And there is the move from citing proof, to sharing an article, to a fallacy of an appeal to authority.

Here's some of the cited studies from the APA article that you clearly couldn't be bothered to read:

Individual study conclusions taken in isolation may or may not make the strong point the article's author tried to make. It is a very old and very boring trick, to "Cite" something you can't cite, then cherrypick from the sources. I imagine even online, most people are tired of that game.

Lauren Bylsma, PhD, of the University of Pittsburgh (Journal of Research in Personality, 2011 (they also referenced the 1980 study by biochemist William H. Frey, PhD that mirrored the same results). These studies found that women cry four times as much as men.

http://ccr.sagepub.com/content/45/4/399.short (in which women cry more than men across all cultures and societies)

http://www.epjournal.net/articles/emotional-tears-facilitate-the-recognition-of-sadness-and-the-perceived-need-for-social-support/ (In which a clear biological advantage is established for people who display tears than people who don't)

All of the points I made were entirely sourced and cited. You've got no leg to stand on here.

See above.

Rates of women crying, as opposed to rates of women crying as a means to manipulate (and of course the trouble with trying to pigeonhole more than 3.5 billion diverse individuals) is not interesting or relevant.

The studies I presented show that women cry under stress. One of the articles discussed how this is an issue in the workplace and linked to organizations and resources that help women learn how not to cry at work.

I'm not sure what more you want.

Proof.

If official peer-reviewed studies and pro-women articles written by women aimed at assisting women with this issue isn't enough then maybe it's time for you to put up your own articles proving your counterpoint that women don't cry at work or under stress in far higher numbers than men. Good luck.

Not really what you offered, just what you tried to APPEAR to offer. Does this usually work on this forum?

So then no, you don't have any information or evidence to support your claims that the studies I presented which are widely accepted as accurate aren't?

Ok, that's all you had to say. Have fun with that. If you won't accept official studies or present ones of your own then you and I don't have anything further to discuss since you're dismissing scientific evidence without providing any counterpoints.

 

[Lightknight]

SNIP

I'm going to split this up to reply as I have different thoughts about the different events, if that's ok? Also, what level of education are we talking about - I saw "professor" and assumed either college (16-18) or university (18+) level.

College, University to be specific. B.A. and B.S. disciplines though I've heard similar trustworthy sources make the same claim in the local community college (I'm friends with a few professors there and talked to them about my experiences with weak professors).

At the higher education establishments I have attended, if you wanted an extension you needed to get it from your faculty's Welfare Officer before the deadline of the assignment (barring extreme circumstances such as hospitalisation on submission day etc.). Once the deadline was passed you lost a certain percentage per day. The papers were delivered to administration staff and had to be submitted electronically to ensure that no-one was being given unfair extensions from a certain professor.

Grade inflation should be virtually impossible in a properly set up system too. Our professors did not mark our own work (it can even be people without any subject knowledge entirely marking to a mark-scheme) and then the papers are sent off for second marking/verification by independent adjudicators unaffiliated with the educational institution.

Basically, professors were little Dukes of their own domain. If you wanted an exception or to complain then you would reach out to them directly or go to their office during office hours.

I suppose offering it to the whole class is better than select individuals. Also, he may well have refused you, but upon realising that more students had the same issue (implying errors of communication regarding the task on his end) changed his mind - after all, he did not just give it to the crying girl but the whole class. I really cannot say though as I was not there!

She was the fourth student in line after that test. I was the only student that got a passing grade that year and I'm ashamed to admit it may have been because I knew his daughter.

Regardless, that was the last year he worked there. The entire class ended up going to the dean on him. This was but one of the many problems he caused from lack of attendance to answering his phone in class and proceeding to talk for 30 minutes.

Boy oh boy was he the worst professor I've ever had.

That is just bizarre, and I hope was taken up with other members of the chemistry staff, even if not in an official capacity. Surely the answers could not have been that different either, given that chemical structures and mathematical formulae don't change in translation (or was it all text-based explanatory answers)? If the language barrier was that severe then it does create questions about what they were doing teaching there in the first place!

He was actually an esteemed chemist and brilliant at it. It just didn't end up translating into teaching. The professor was responsible for finding a fairly useful molecule that is currently being implemented in some neat areas of science so I assume the college thought he was worth having as a research professor. He was a lot better at explaining his personal area of study.

It all seems so odd given my experiences in education. Hopefully from me explaining my own position and experience you can see why I thought your claims odd.

Yeah, sounds like your experience was really tightened down. Was it a university, community college or something else?

 

[Superbeast]

Basically, professors were little Dukes of their own domain. If you wanted an exception or to complain then you would reach out to them directly or go to their office during office hours.

She was the fourth student in line after that test. I was the only student that got a passing grade that year and I'm ashamed to admit it may have been because I knew his daughter.

Regardless, that was the last year he worked there. The entire class ended up going to the dean on him. This was but one of the many problems he caused from lack of attendance to answering his phone in class and proceeding to talk for 30 minutes.

Boy oh boy was he the worst professor I've ever had.

Bloody hell, he sounds like he was awful. Were people paying to attend the institution he taught at? That's not to say this level of behaviour is fine if its free, but that it must have been galling to think about how much you were paying to be stuck with someone so dire, given how expensive education can be these days.

He was actually an esteemed chemist and brilliant at it. It just didn't end up translating into teaching. The professor was responsible for finding a fairly useful molecule that is currently being implemented in some neat areas of science so I assume the college thought he was worth having as a research professor. He was a lot better at explaining his personal area of study.

Yeah, unfortunately just being an expert in your field does not mean you can teach. Incidentally, the government of my country had been talking about getting industry experts to teach without having to qualify as teachers - this kind of thing is why I am massively against that idea. That's not to disparage his scientific achievements, but rather that teaching requires a certain skill-set that he may not have had.

Yeah, sounds like your experience was really tightened down. Was it a university, community college or something else?

Two different universities, both for B.A. level degrees (Biochemistry & Biological Chemistry, Classical Literature and Civilisations). Lower levels of education also had independent marking of exams.

 

[Olas]

Jesus Christ! Seriously?

Boo him. Call him a dick. Don't invite him to your next dinner party. Send him hate mail if you're really butthurt and have nothing better to do. But firing him? Over a single, somewhat off=color joke?

What's more important to this institution? Academic achievement? Or having never offended anybody ever? Even in a joke. Priorities.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Jesus Christ! Seriously?

Boo him. Call him a dick. Don't invite him to your next dinner party. Send him hate mail if you're really butthurt and have nothing better to do. But firing him? Over a single, somewhat off=color joke?

What's more important to this institution? Academic achievement? Or having never offended anybody ever? Even in a joke. Priorities.

As mentioned several times, he later clarified the joke by saying it was all true. And the job that he was fired from was representing the institution, not doing anything actually academic.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

As mentioned several times, he later clarified the joke by saying it was all true. And the job that he was fired from was representing the institution, not doing anything actually academic.

Pretty much. Even then ... yeah,you can be fired from any job for being unprofessional. Science is not some lone figure in the laboratory. It's teams upon teams of co-ordinated research groups who are supposed to work together. Also, I quite like the hypocrisy in people's arguments here. "He was talking about women being overemotional, and their outburst proves it ... lol!" Really...? It ranks up there with; "I called the police officer an egotistical pig when he pulled me over for a warning, and then he ticketed me!"

Funnily enough if you go on like a sexist fuckwit, you're going to be treated like a sexist fuckwit. His non-pology did nothing but pour salt on his situation. Saying women have lower capacity in (insert career field here) because they're overemotional, and then confirming those biases in your non-pology, is ground for termination in any other industry ...

Science is a cooperative field. You have teams of people working to a single goal. Having dinosaurs treat one half of the species as unworthy of being treated as equals is bad business in a field that relies on international coordination and cooperative engagement. Which is why such rhetoric has been treated as contemptuous.

Once again his job was about image (not science). It's often weird how people don't seem to entertain (particularly after his non-pology) the possibility that maybe, just maybe, it was a sexist pig relieved of a job for being sexist. Like, you know, a thousand other fuckwits in business who companies get rid off because they're problematic in terms of their image.

 

[Lightknight]

As mentioned several times, he later clarified the joke by saying it was all true. And the job that he was fired from was representing the institution, not doing anything actually academic.

Yep, it is scientifically true that women cry four times as much as men and are specifically far more likely to do so under stressful situations like having your work criticized.

He made a factually accurate joke. Are we complaining that he said women cry or that men fall in love with women?

Yeah, women are far more likely to cry in response to criticism. It's a natural defense mechanism that totally works and it isn't even "manipulative" or "bad" because it is entirely automatic (for the most part).

You have proof of that, or is this simply adding stereotype upon stereotype? Or is this is sarcasm? I cannot tell with this one.

What? It's an incredibly well documented and heavily studied sex-based behavior differentiator.

Here's the first summary of the disparity I found.

http://www.sacredheartspectrum.com/news/view.php/663981/The-Crying-Game-Why-Women-Cry-More-Than-

SNIP

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/02/cry.aspx

SNIP

Do you understand the difference between a study and an article? I asked for PROOF, not a page of what you thought, as written by people who think like you.

What? Those were articles citing and describing numerous studies and their findings.

Do you really think the American Psychological Association thinks like me?

I don't know, I don't know how you think compared to an enormous organization. It may be that you think like the article's author however. You didn't need that obvious attempt to shift the weight of authority from the author to the organization though; those twin fallacies were implicit in your original citation.

Thanks, because they're usually right and are a definitive source on this kind of topic.

And there is the move from citing proof, to sharing an article, to a fallacy of an appeal to authority.

Here's some of the cited studies from the APA article that you clearly couldn't be bothered to read:

Individual study conclusions taken in isolation may or may not make the strong point the article's author tried to make. It is a very old and very boring trick, to "Cite" something you can't cite, then cherrypick from the sources. I imagine even online, most people are tired of that game.

Lauren Bylsma, PhD, of the University of Pittsburgh (Journal of Research in Personality, 2011 (they also referenced the 1980 study by biochemist William H. Frey, PhD that mirrored the same results). These studies found that women cry four times as much as men.

http://ccr.sagepub.com/content/45/4/399.short (in which women cry more than men across all cultures and societies)

http://www.epjournal.net/articles/emotional-tears-facilitate-the-recognition-of-sadness-and-the-perceived-need-for-social-support/ (In which a clear biological advantage is established for people who display tears than people who don't)

All of the points I made were entirely sourced and cited. You've got no leg to stand on here.

See above.

Rates of women crying, as opposed to rates of women crying as a means to manipulate (and of course the trouble with trying to pigeonhole more than 3.5 billion diverse individuals) is not interesting or relevant.

The studies I presented show that women cry under stress. One of the articles discussed how this is an issue in the workplace and linked to organizations and resources that help women learn how not to cry at work.

I'm not sure what more you want.

Proof.

If official peer-reviewed studies and pro-women articles written by women aimed at assisting women with this issue isn't enough then maybe it's time for you to put up your own articles proving your counterpoint that women don't cry at work or under stress in far higher numbers than men. Good luck.

Not really what you offered, just what you tried to APPEAR to offer. Does this usually work on this forum?

So then no, you don't have any information or evidence to support your claims that the studies I presented which are widely accepted as accurate aren't?

Ok, that's all you had to say. Have fun with that. If you won't accept official studies or present ones of your own then you and I don't have anything further to discuss since you're dismissing scientific evidence without providing any counterpoints.

I'm glad to see you added to your post, it was a little thin. It's a shame it's all a lie as to what I said, but I'm not expecting more.

Look, here's what you can do. Say what was a lie, specifically, then provide evidence for your side to establish it as an incorrect statement. Do you have any evidence to back up whatever your claim is? If so, you've been pretty mum on it. What sort of proof are you accepting aside from peer reviewed studies? Do you need me to conduct the study with you (present)so that you can personally witness all of the samples in a study? Will you only accept studies where you have personally caressed the moist cheek of the samples and tasted the salt? I mean, seriously, what do you consider to be evidence or proof if you do not accept the wealth of knowledge that all of academia has accrued on the subject? It would be one thing if there were conflicting studies. But there isn't. There's a ton of studies and all of them point the same way. Women cry four times as much as men and in response to stress which men aren't prone to.

Every study has been verified and re-verified over decades on the topic. The burden of proof is on you to counter the claim with actual legitimate proof of your own that all of these studies deny existence of. Handwaving and posturing just isn't going to cut it here if you want to have a serious discussion.

 

[Lightknight]

Bloody hell, he sounds like he was awful. Were people paying to attend the institution he taught at? That's not to say this level of behaviour is fine if its free, but that it must have been galling to think about how much you were paying to be stuck with someone so dire, given how expensive education can be these days.

We were financially compensated for the course. The only thing they didn't give us back was our time. A few of the students had been kind enough to catalogue and record instances of him not showing up, cancelling at the last moment, and even a few lengthy cell phone conversations he had while we just sat there in amazement at his audacity.

Yeah, unfortunately just being an expert in your field does not mean you can teach. Incidentally, the government of my country had been talking about getting industry experts to teach without having to qualify as teachers - this kind of thing is why I am massively against that idea. That's not to disparage his scientific achievements, but rather that teaching requires a certain skill-set that he may not have had.

I think they just needed him to be a researcher and not a research professor. For someone as high up in the industry as he was they probably thought they could leverage his name for the class. I mean, Hell, that's why I went with him. I thought I was getting an education from one of the leaders of the field, and I was, but he sucked at it. It's hit or miss to be honest. Most of the other professors I went with because of their experience in their field really paid off. So I can see why the University at least tries the person out.

Two different universities, both for B.A. level degrees (Biochemistry & Biological Chemistry, Classical Literature and Civilisations). Lower levels of education also had independent marking of exams.

Hah! Then I'm very pleased my main example was of a Chemistry professor.

From some of your language use I'm guessing that you may not be American. Though I should mention for future conversations that while your Classical Literature and Civilisations degree would be a "B.A.", your Biochemistry & Biological Chemistry degree would be a "B.S.". B.A. is a Bachelor of Arts, B.S. is a Bachelor of Science. Here in American anyways.

For the most part, we don't have a problem with the setup here. If a student has any problem with the professor then they can get their work scored (marked) independently upon request.

 

[Silvanus]

Not sure whether this has been posted here yet, but an account by the European Commission was leaked and published in The Times [http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article4478368.ece] (Note: The Times is behind a paywall, but this Independent column [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/richard-dawkins-demands-apology-from-sir-tim-hunts-critics-and-claims-leaked-transcript-shows-sexist-comments-were-lighthearted-banter-10341160.html] includes a lot of the pertinent details).

This is the wider context surrounding the remark;

"It?s strange that such a chauvinist monster like me has been asked to speak to women scientists. Let me tell you about my trouble with girls. Three things happen when they are in the lab: you fall in love with them, they fall in love with you, and when you criticise them they cry. Perhaps we should make separate labs for boys and girls?

Now seriously, I?m impressed by the economic development of Korea. And women scientists played, without doubt an important role in it. Science needs women and you should do science despite all the obstacles, and despite monsters like me.?

Emphasis mine.

Anyway, I'm not offering a particular opinion of my own right here, but it's highly relevant information, and (many would argue) changes the tone.

 

[Silvanus]

Yeah, it's all better if someone says, "Jews are filthy and greedy, but you can't run banks without them." Such a gentile monster now.

I specifically said I wasn't giving an opinion on the information, and avoided doing so. I'm simply giving information which-- as this is in part an argument which concerns tone-- is clearly relevant.

That hyperbole is misdirected. Point it somewhere else.

 

[Silvanus]

I disagree. In my experience his tone and content match a very typical pattern of those in power publicly shitting on those without power, with a grin. The content he expressed and his later clarification don't leave room for tone to play a role in interpretation, even with you offering it as "Just Asking Questions".

Fine. Other people may disagree with you, and most would say we're generally better off discussing snippets of dialogue if we have the context.

On a side-note, this may be the quickest escalation to outright hostility I've experienced in quite some time on this site, and that's saying a lot. Generally it'll take more than just the one post.