NoE (seemingly) cuts Bravely Second's bad ends from sidequests.

[TheMysteriousGX]

So, a company , of their own volition, with nary a change.org petition or single chastising Twitter post, changes a thing they own.

Not really seeing the censorship. If, upon actually knowing what changes were made, you disagree with the changes, feel more than free to criticise the company or even petition to get the changes reverted, but...

Blaming a third party who wasn't involved seems like a waste of energy.

As for Nintendo changing bits of a game just because? I, too, remember the adventures of Goku, Nora, Pudgy, and Lancer in finding the Crystal Balls, with the aid of the sandwich-loving Hermit.

 

[NPC009]

Now that I know what was changed, I think I'm glad they did. The sidequests as they were sound very bothersome.

 

[Something Amyss]

Quest removal is something they need to respond over.
Take the time to explain why these options and questlines are being cut.

If they're being cut. Right now, there's no real evidence they are.

However, if it's happening, it may be--as others have mentioned--because they were already disliked by the Japanese base.

 

[Fappy]

Now that I know what was changed, I think I'm glad they did. The sidequests as they were sound very bothersome.

I'm thinking the same thing.

There's also a precedent for this already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravely_Default (see the Localization section)

The expanded version of the original game had a ton of changes made to it based on feedback from Japanese players. This was the version of the game that was eventually localized in the US. While we're not getting a "Maniax" version of Bravely Second, you can clearly see that the devs want to give the US a superior version of the game based on feedback from the Japanese players. At least, that's the way I am reading things.

 

[NPC009]

Now that I know what was changed, I think I'm glad they did. The sidequests as they were sound very bothersome.

I'm thinking the same thing.

There's also a precedent for this already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravely_Default (see the Localization section)

The expanded version of the original game had a ton of changes made to it based on feedback from Japanese players. This was the version of the game that was eventually localized in the US. While we're not getting a "Maniax" version of Bravely Second, you can clearly see that the devs want to give the US a superior version of the game based on feedback from the Japanese players. At least, that's the way I am reading things.

Oh yeah, "For the Sequel"! I remember that!

I haven't bought Bravely Second yet (planning to, though), but when I do get it, it'll be one of many games that underwent changes after Japanese feedback. For instance, the first Legend of Zelda game had some hints and other things changed. Or, uh, the bosses in Alundra - in the localised version they have less health but stronger attacks, making the battles shorter but more difficult. Also, I just finished playing Legend of Legacy, and I heard they did some rebalancing for the English version. More often than not I only find out about such changes (years) after I played the game, but it's fun to read up on them.

 

[Fappy]

Now that I know what was changed, I think I'm glad they did. The sidequests as they were sound very bothersome.

I'm thinking the same thing.

There's also a precedent for this already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravely_Default (see the Localization section)

The expanded version of the original game had a ton of changes made to it based on feedback from Japanese players. This was the version of the game that was eventually localized in the US. While we're not getting a "Maniax" version of Bravely Second, you can clearly see that the devs want to give the US a superior version of the game based on feedback from the Japanese players. At least, that's the way I am reading things.

Oh yeah, "For the Sequel"! I remember that!

I haven't bought Bravely Second yet (planning to, though), but when I do get it, it'll be one of many games that underwent changes after Japanese feedback. For instance, the first Legend of Zelda game had some hints and other things changed. Or, uh, the bosses in Alundra - in the localised version they have less health but stronger attacks, making the battles shorter but more difficult. Also, I just finished playing Legend of Legacy, and I heard they did some rebalancing for the English version. More often than not I only find out about such changes (years) after I played the game, but it's fun to read up on them.

A lot of gamers are just triggered by localization changes these days. They're no worse than they've been in the past, and certainly nowhere near as bad as they were in the 90's. Sure, some changes are dumb but people need to stop acting like this is a new thing.

Another popular example of how this was done right was with Final Fantasy 7. While the translation was godawful, the US version was superior to the original Japanese release in gameplay respects. IIRC we got the Emerald and Ruby Weapon bosses because the Japanese players complained that there weren't any difficult endgame bosses besides Sepheroth.

 

[Something Amyss]

If you wish to say that thinking games should matter and that gamres should prioritize what is best for games

Holy loaded statement, Batman!

People generally aren't saying that. They just disagree with you on what, specifically, is important. Why do people always need to make this out to be a bigger issue than it is?

For that matter, why isn't there ever any major controversy when some scantily-clad boy gets covered up? It seems very political the way these sweeping--yet selective--and authoritarian declarations of "censorship" are made. The double standards are astonishing.

 

[Something Amyss]

A lot of gamers are just triggered by localization changes these days. They're no worse than they've been in the past, and certainly nowhere near as bad as they were in the 90's. Sure, some changes are dumb but people need to stop acting like this is a new thing.

I've always thought this particularly weird, given I grew up on edited anime packaged as cartoons, and game edits have been going on as long as I can remember. When people act like this is a slippery slope, I wonder if I'm the only one that's been playing games or watching commercial Japanese media for the last thirty years. Of course, Erin would tell me otherwise. It's especially weird how many of these same people seem to wax nostalgic for content which was edited. From more subtle things like Final Fantasy games, to Voltron and Power Rangers.

 

[NPC009]

A lot of gamers are just triggered by localization changes these days. They're no worse than they've been in the past, and certainly nowhere near as bad as they were in the 90's. Sure, some changes are dumb but people need to stop acting like this is a new thing.

I've always thought this particularly weird, given I grew up on edited anime packaged as cartoons, and game edits have been going on as long as I can remember. When people act like this is a slippery slope, I wonder if I'm the only one that's been playing games or watching commercial Japanese media for the last thirty years. Of course, Erin would tell me otherwise. It's especially weird how many of these same people seem to wax nostalgic for content which was edited. From more subtle things like Final Fantasy games, to Voltron and Power Rangers.

I remember a time when publishers were like "OMG, this game is so Japanese! Make it more American, stat!", "Oh no, now that the characters are no longer Japanese, they're all white! Quick, make one of them black!" and "Wow, this huge optional quest is very difficult. Plus, we're short on time, money and/or manpower, maybe. Probably. Let's cut it!"

That time is not now, that time was 1996.

(But I'm glad Mark still dances crazy.)

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Snip

You familiar with the phrase "the straw that broke the cammel's back"? That was what happened with me. Oh and I beat one of the dragons. The fact that I had to grind classes that I had no interest in using in order to get it done, and then I learned I had to do that five more times. This is something that had not happened with any of the other jobmasters in the game and it rubbed me the wrong way, whom I could take on the second they showed up. It doesn't matter though, like I said, this is just a case of the straw that broke the cammel's back. How long the game was stretching on for, the bleh plot, the bleh characters, there was nothing pulling me in.

And the other source is coming from someone who did in depth research, how come his view point doesn't count while the other does? For all we know the first guy got a glitch or didn't trigger the ending for some reason he didn't realize. He wasn't exactly making a big deal out of it, just making a mild observation. The conclusion the second guy isn't confirmed beyond a doubt, but he has presented evidence as for why it very well could be true. I have no reason to doubt it because it's well researched and there's no counter evidence against it yet.

Permit? I permit these changes? Yes. I permit developers to change their own game. Please tell me why this makes me a horrible person. I wasn't aware I could disallow this. Yes, games are more important. And as someone who creates art, the worst thing you can do is deny someone creative freedom in their work. Disagree with it by all means, but this all or nothing, "Change nothing or everything is going to be changed" mindsets? That's far more damaging to art than a few minor changes done to make the game run more smoothly and are only being focused on because of the recent sensationalism regarding anything that even mildly looks like censorship, whether or not its actually an attack on freedom of speech or not.

I value freedom of the artist over what I want.

I can definitely see if you grinded enough to beat a dragon why you would burn out but it still was unneeded so I guess we can chalk it up to luck. After a certain class level the xp cost raises tenfold so the game automatically reinforces you to switch it up until most are at that point though so it never is really a problem where you have to go out of your way and grind. The fun part is basically leveling all the classes and discovering new skill combinations, not liking this part is what prompted me to say it's not for you earlier, as I enjoyed that part the best in this game.


A very well reasoned opinion is a theory, not a revelation or fact. The difference between the two matters a ton.

Being permissive is not directly permitting a thing, it's accepting it and nodding along. Changes are one thing and this another, until they patch these changes onto the Jp version too, they'll always be a result of nonartistic marketing based invasive localization. If they wish to make these quests better, they could do a thousand different approaches such as change the way the ending flags get triggered to let the player know, no need to just cut the endings. And I'm not actually calling anybody horrible, I'm saying this stance focuses on excusing issues for the sake of lesser reasons than these actual issues.

Even if you're absolutely right on everything the worst possible scenario had you agreed that this matters is that a few innocent people get badmouthed on the internets. In our case, if we're right the worst case scenario is games being butchered like this and the pendulum is swingng dangerously close to this direction. Putting both scenarios side to side, if you pick the former to be worse, that's just not right or just.

 

[Something Amyss]

I remember a time when publishers were like "OMG, this game is so Japanese! Make it more American, stat!", "Oh no, now that the characters are no longer Japanese, they're all white! Quick, make one of them black!" and "Wow, this huge optional quest is very difficult. Plus, we're short on time, money and/or manpower, maybe. Probably. Let's cut it!"

That time is not now, that time was 1996.

(But I'm glad Mark still dances crazy.)

Or 1986 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros.:_The_Lost_Levels]. Because video games are too hard for Americans and we need to simplify things [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Mystic_Quest].

 

[Fox12]

Snip

Ok, first of all, great game and praised JRPG? Not thought of as great and praised by me. The first one really got on my nerves, to the point where I never got far past the Templar fight. Story and gameplay both, story was riding on the plotline of "I'm not telling you really really important information even though I have no reason not to, instead I'm just going to yell about how stupid you are and fight you," and the grinding was getting stupid, especially when I was required to grind certain classes just to get through certain boss fights. So yeah I wasn't exactly in a position to be "mortified." What's more, especially considering that I checked the source and found it to be a little unreliable considering it was citing a forum post citing another forum post, and the article was essentially throwing a temper tantrum. So yeah. After that and something I perceived as an insult towards people who didn't get up in arms every single time a change was made, no matter how minor, which I fell into. With all of that in mind, I wasn't feeling very obligated to feel outraged about this change.

I feel even less reason to be outraged now that it's been revealed that the other endings were removed because of negative feedback from Japanese players.

Are you implying that this whole thing may not be as big of a deal as we thought? Thank goodness no one jumped the gun, they would look really silly.

 

[EternallyBored]

A lot of gamers are just triggered by localization changes these days. They're no worse than they've been in the past, and certainly nowhere near as bad as they were in the 90's. Sure, some changes are dumb but people need to stop acting like this is a new thing.

I've always thought this particularly weird, given I grew up on edited anime packaged as cartoons, and game edits have been going on as long as I can remember. When people act like this is a slippery slope, I wonder if I'm the only one that's been playing games or watching commercial Japanese media for the last thirty years. Of course, Erin would tell me otherwise. It's especially weird how many of these same people seem to wax nostalgic for content which was edited. From more subtle things like Final Fantasy games, to Voltron and Power Rangers.

I remember a time when publishers were like "OMG, this game is so Japanese! Make it more American, stat!", "Oh no, now that the characters are no longer Japanese, they're all white! Quick, make one of them black!" and "Wow, this huge optional quest is very difficult. Plus, we're short on time, money and/or manpower, maybe. Probably. Let's cut it!"

That time is not now, that time was 1996.

(But I'm glad Mark still dances crazy.)

That's why I always find the slippery slope arguments in these discussions to be wholly unconvincing, we have had far more edited abominations than this. If anything, they've gotten better with localizations over the years, the 90's were a wild time where anime, manga, and video games from Japan were almost laughably bad, even the translations were often poor, if they weren't just straight up relabeling different games a la super Mario bros. 2.

If anything, we are in one of the best periods for translations or localizations. I can get stuff digitally now that wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of ever coming to the u.s., and of much higher translation/localization quality from the majority of stuff 15 years ago.

Stuff like this isn't indicative of a slippery slope, it's just proof that companies can still make questionable or unpopular decisions, the assumptions that this is happening because people didn't speak up about things like Fire Emblem is baffling. I seriously doubt corporate decisions and changes could come that fast, given the time it takes to localize games, these cuts were made before anyone even knew about the Fire Emblem shit.

It's not a slope, and it's not slippery either, we've been marching back and forth from great translations and localizations to poor ones for as long as we've been Importing games from abroad, we are trending towards higher quality and a much faster exchange of information that makes us aware of these changes almost immediately, so situations like this that would have gone entirely unremarked or realized in the 90's are now known and discussed almost as soon as they happen.

Shitty stuff happens, if people want to boycott this game or sign petitions trying to change it back, I'm down with that, that's consumer action I can support, but turning around with this emotional grandstanding about how this is some new disturbing trend is laughable at best, you can fight against shitty ports without having to sell people a bunch bullshit about censorship, and blaming consumers for something a corporation did entirely of its own free will. This shit isn't new, and I'm fine with with fighting against it, just don't sit here and try to shame people for inaction like its some grand sin to look at the situation as more complex than, "any change fromnthe initial release is bad and should be fought against".

 

[RaikuFA]

Snip

I understand that and appreciate that. I'm just pointing out that I in particular didn't like it. And I liked Final Fantasy 4 and 6. I might go back and finish Bravely Default one day. MIGHT! But the vampire quest left a really bad taste in my mouth and as I spent time away from it I realized that it was...ok. Nothing really wrong with it but I started to realize tiny little nitpicks about it.

Look if you love it, awesome. I wish I could've liked it more, not liking a game isn't fun, despite what people say.

And yup, exactly what I was thinking.

Hey I never finished it either. I'm just saying I remember thee beginning part more than the later parts where it felt like a drag.

 

[renegade7]

I looked through your sources and could not find anything beyond a single forum thread. No other source indicates that this more than a rumor. The only person who has claimed to have experienced this is the person originating the GameFAQs thread, all other sources point back to that thread. No statements have yet been released by Square Enix or Nintendo.

It should at least be said that some other users are claiming that the only change is to some of the dialogue in some of the outcomes of some of the sidequests. And also, it is apparently possible to access the original Japanese text and voicework in the localized releases (as was possible in the Western release of Bravely Default, if memory serves correctly), and that the original dialogue and quest trees can be viewed that way.

So maybe we should take all of this with a nice big grain of salt until we get some kind of authoritative statement by Squeenix about what has actually happened here.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Another popular example of how this was done right was with Final Fantasy 7. While the translation was godawful, the US version was superior to the original Japanese release in gameplay respects. IIRC we got the Emerald and Ruby Weapon bosses because the Japanese players complained that there weren't any difficult endgame bosses besides Sepheroth.

while I'm not remotely trying to defend the OP or any "bad" arguments in here, I do think it's worth seperating content that is added vs changed/removed like the OP was describing, adding things (such as ruby and emerald) is almost always a damn good thing, especially if it's optional, but many of the things the OP was referring to were taken out.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Snip snap snappity snappy

I do agree with ya to a point. I did touch base in later comments on this that there may have been implications towards certain groups. My focus wasn't on that though. It was the drama fest that ensued when a reaction to said post was made. People can get mad all ya want for implied words, but blowing up at the person, calling them out with anger/implied insults/ etc, and essentially breaking the CoC of the site (Hence the warning given) doesn't make it any better. That was the point of my argument

 

[Fox12]

Snip snap snappity snappy

I do agree with ya to a point. I did touch base in later comments on this that there may have been implications towards certain groups. My focus wasn't on that though. It was the drama fest that ensued when a reaction to said post was made. People can get mad all ya want for implied words, but blowing up at the person, calling them out with anger/implied insults/ etc, and essentially breaking the CoC of the site (Hence the warning given) doesn't make it any better. That was the point of my argument

This is true. The GG argument had died down some, but a lot of people can't help but make the occasional dig. There's a proper and an improper way to respond to things. I just can't blame someone for being a little miffed when another person was clearly being provocative. Two wrongs don't really make a right, though, do they?

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

You aren't required to grind unless you're trying to do the vampire class quest earlier than you need, nor are you required to have some specific classes to beat bosses. Strategy always trumps broken skill combos like dark knights with blood drain spamming their op hp skils and regaining the lost hp back.

The 4-Valkyrie team with Hermes Shoes disagrees.

If your entire team is faster than your opponent, you can just spam Jump and you're completely invincible. He can't hit you, and you'll just Jump on him until he dies.

It's how I killed the secret boss.

 

[Something Amyss]

That's why I always find the slippery slope arguments in these discussions to be wholly unconvincing, we have had far more edited abominations than this. If anything, they've gotten better with localizations over the years, the 90's were a wild time where anime, manga, and video games from Japan were almost laughably bad, even the translations were often poor, if they weren't just straight up relabeling different games a la super Mario bros. 2.

If anything, we are in one of the best periods for translations or localizations. I can get stuff digitally now that wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of ever coming to the u.s., and of much higher translation/localization quality from the majority of stuff 15 years ago.

And honestly, the 80s were probably worse than the 90s, so it really looks like things are getting better. That's the thing about a slippery slope: it actually has to lead somewhere.

And yeah, I mean, I remember when I was a kid there would occasionally be news of a game that was Japan only, and I'd be bummed. Now we have a much better chance of seeing some form of release. Christ, we may finally be getting Mother 3 (which makes me curious as to how they're going to do it). And while we're at it, how awesome is it that we can legally stream hundreds or even thousands of anime series from our homes, rather than trying to hunt down loose VHS tapes to complete our collections? Yeah. I'm old.

I remember a time when subtitled anime was practically unheard of in a retail shop and heavy edits to video games were common. Perspective makes this stuff a lot less scary.

But honestly, I think we all have a pretty good idea of why this slippery slope idea is being pushed.