non Americans: do you think we are violent?

[kyp275]

it's rather amusing how many in this thread wrap themselves in the clothes of moral superiority while using the logical reasoning long used by racists and bigots to justify their views on those "vile, barbaric Americans".

But please do carry on.

 

[Lightspeaker]

Yes you are all evil monsters that we British foolishly released upon the world but the day soon approaches when we take back our colonies with musket and impractical hat!.

Sorry but no, as a fellow Brit I refuse to allow our country to take responsibility for America being created.

The French being at war with us was the reason we couldn't prevent America from being formed. Plus its another thing we can pin on the French as their fault. So I blame France. ;P

Unless you are the secret monarch of the USA who rules behind the scenes and the rest of your class was part of your high council, then that guy is a twat and had no right to speak to you like that.

Honestly I'm surprised that a Brit had the crassness to go up to someone and insult them like that. Didn't they get the memo that you're supposed to be strictly polite to the people you hate and insult your closest friends? That's the done thing.

Then again...it WAS in London. That place is like a country unto itself.

What people today view as American pro-war mentality is simply their unrealistic desire to have one war settle one dispute and then have the matter be dropped so they don't have to spill anymore blood over it. It's silly and the biggest curse from both Vietnam and WWII where they learned bad lessons in both from both Victory Disease and being overly traumatized by war.

I've heard this one brought up before and its always made a lot of sense to me.

Unlike a lot of other countries, to America WWII was a "slam-dunk" (I read that somewhere ages ago). The US itself was divorced from any real threat to their homeland. The Empire of Japan got smashed, Russia took gigantic losses, the entirety of Europe, North Africa and the Middle East was wrecked and Britain had to effectively trade away the Empire for victory, France had been occupied, Italy suffered and Germany was literally broken in half. But America didn't suffer in the same way. So it had something of a warped perspective on WWII compared to everywhere else.

And because of that, and because of WWII being the war that really brought the US onto the stage as the major world power it is today, the US is constantly looking for wars to be similar "slam-dunks". And is ever surprised when they don't turn out that way.

 

[Parasondox]

it's rather amusing how many in this thread wrap themselves in the clothes of moral superiority while using the logical reasoning long used by racists and bigots to justify their views on those "vile, barbaric Americans".

But please do carry on.

Or just that the question was direct about whether the US was seen as violent or not. If the same question was asked about the UK, I would answer, "Fuck yeah". In the city/suburbs hearing sirens every 10 mins you would think we were the crime capital of Europe. Then there are football hooliganism who are both violent and racist (see Chelsea Paris story). Also the drinking fights that happens when people decide to binge drink and don't know when to stop. And lastly, the UK history itself with fights between the Irish, the Scottish, people from Liverpool, the French, the Spanish, the world pretty much. Yeah, violence is in UK's history and the US may have taken some of that from their parents.

People here are also admitting their own nations faults, so it's not all, "vile barbaric Americans". Careful how you use the terms "racist" and "bigot", now.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Or just that the question was direct about whether the US was seen as violent or not. If the same question was asked about the UK, I would answer, "Fuck yeah". In the city/suburbs hearing sirens every 10 mins you would think we were the crime capital of Europe.

Not to mention that Midsomer place that has all those increasingly weird and elaborate murders.

 

[Parasondox]

Or just that the question was direct about whether the US was seen as violent or not. If the same question was asked about the UK, I would answer, "Fuck yeah". In the city/suburbs hearing sirens every 10 mins you would think we were the crime capital of Europe.

Not to mention that Midsomer place that has all those increasingly weird and elaborate murders.

Yeah that place is a no go zone. I do not know why people still choose to go to Midsomer. Damn Brits!!

 

[Patrick Buck]

I think entitlement culture in america is a bit more widespread, so when people don't get what they want, or complain they can't get what they want they get bitchy faster than others. It's a problem in britain too, but I don't think it's so widespread.

 

[MoltenSilver]

Canadian here

I remember when I was growing up there was this big stereotype that America was the land of violence and that you shouldn't cross the border without your bullet-proof everything, but the attitude seems to have shifted to 'You will probably be fine in most of the bigger cities', though there is still a lot of fear and revulsion at stepping in to any 'small town' area that are seen as bastions of violence fetishism, gun nuts, racism, and homophobia.

Which incredibly ironic as, while I can't say whether that's true or not of American small towns, it is definitely true that Canadian small towns (and even some of the middle ones) are chief exporters of concentrated stupid. My sibling moved to a town called Grand Prairie (Pop ~55,000) for work and is pretty much on the verge of a mental breakdown being among the racist, sexist, homophobic attitudes that seem to permeate everyone they've met there. Rural Canada is also every bit as obsessed with guns as America, but I've never seen guns be 'worshipped' or 'lionized' to the same extent; they're just "that tool you need to have so coyotes don't kill your family and livelihood".

In terms of fearing America, I actually fear the influence of American corporations about a billion times more than I fear 'would I be killed if I got kidnapped and dumped in an American small town'.

 

[Evil Smurf]

The collective American conscience has a gun fetish, invades other countries for business profits, kills a black person every 8 hours, and only cares about the rich. So yes, I'd say you were a violent people.

 

[Kerethos]

I'm Swedish, so I'm from a country people have a lot of odd ideas about (like we're some socialist paradise of horny blondes)... but some of them are probably true, to some extent.

Also we think our stereotypical "that's racist!" depictions, like the Swedish chef, is pretty funny. Imagine if he was the Somalian chef, or Chinese chef - would they just laugh and consider him entirely unoffensive? People, and nations, should be able to laugh about themselves and how strange you seem to others.

Anyhow we (Sweden) used to be a conquering world power, back when Norway, Finland, parts of Denmark and Poland (who wasn't Poland back then) and such was just "The Kingdom of Sweden". That all ended centuries ago and since then we've not, as a nation, been at war. But that is how I see the USA.

You are a child of a nation, well teenager perhaps. Insecure and violent against all that could be dangerous to your unity. Basically you're us 300 years ago. Ready to fight anyone who looks at you funny, and prone to overly committing to anything. Be it the idea of freedom, your choice in religion, views on government regulation - basically everything. You'll find both extremes in the USA.

God hates the gays! - Gay marriage is legal.
No government oversight! - Regulate EVERYTHING!
God is the answer! - Actually like 30% of the people don't believe in God.
You'll pry this gun from my cold dead hands! - Ban all the guns! In fact: Ban all the weapons!
We are the 1%: Go trickle down economics! - We're the other 99% you're milking for money, go fuck yourself!
We want all the violence on TV! - No blood, or bruises, basically we hit people but no one is ever injured... well, maybe a small cut on the brow and some soot.

You're such a big nation and there's really just not one kind of American. There's no real national identity, there's multiple based on a lot of other things rather than "I was born in the USA". You're diverse, to extremes, and as a nation you're still trying to figure out what it means to have a national identity - because there's so many. I mean as a nation you're bigger than the entire EU. We're diverse as fuck so agreeing on anything is a right pain in the ass, and we're mostly just trying to agree on economics and regulations. At least you guys mostly all speak the same language

Anyhow I think this basic lack of a common identity and insecurity manifests itself in a kind of fear that makes you more prone to violence and you have a nation built on revolution, on fighting and being able to fight for what you believe in. You also don't know your fellow citizens in the same way as a more homogeneous nation does, you can't go to the other side of the nation or city and just find more people pretty much like you. You're strangers in a nation of strangers, and that sounds kind of scary too me.

So the short answer is: Yes, I think you seem prone to violence and you do glorify violence, or the capacity for violence, in a way I find worrying, as you brush over the consequences. But then some of you are probably just like me, it's bound to happen in such a diverse nation.

The point is that you're still a young nation. Hopefully you'll become more unified a couple of centuries from now and stop acting so insecure, juvenile and scared. Until then the rest of us will try to enjoy the show and hope you don't break too much growing up, because if such a large gathering of diverse people like you manage to unite in peace then that means the rest of us can too.

 

[K12]

I think there's a perception of Americans in the UK (where I'm from) that "safety" means "the means to kill anyone who might threaten me" rather than something that makes sense like

In the UK nobody really has guns and surprisingly this means very few gun crimes, serial killings or large-scale gang violence. We just make do with sarcastic comments most of the time.

 

[kyp275]

it's rather amusing how many in this thread wrap themselves in the clothes of moral superiority while using the logical reasoning long used by racists and bigots to justify their views on those "vile, barbaric Americans".

But please do carry on.

Or just that the question was direct about whether the US was seen as violent or not. If the same question was asked about the UK, I would answer, "Fuck yeah". In the city/suburbs hearing sirens every 10 mins you would think we were the crime capital of Europe. Then there are football hooliganism who are both violent and racist (see Chelsea Paris story). Also the drinking fights that happens when people decide to binge drink and don't know when to stop. And lastly, the UK history itself with fights between the Irish, the Scottish, people from Liverpool, the French, the Spanish, the world pretty much. Yeah, violence is in UK's history and the US may have taken some of that from their parents.

People here are also admitting their own nations faults, so it's not all, "vile barbaric Americans". Careful how you use the terms "racist" and "bigot", now.

And you might have a point if I weren't able to simply pull all these from this thread alone:

- "I refuse to set foot on US soil, as far as I'm concerned everyone has guns, and guns kill people. And people there (as far as I hear) are violent and intolerant."

- "I think you're bloody psychopaths. I won't even go to America because I'm afraid I'll get shot. Your cops are racist, state-sponsored murderers and half your people think a gun is more important than a child's life." Blah blah blah goes on to compare the US with child rapists and killers

- "It seems a culture that glorifies power. Be it through threat of violence, oney or other means. With a decent bit of paranoia throw in that others seek to take said power for themselves"

- "When I was in America, I was extremely aware that every single cop is a bloody threat and if I act strange, they will shoot and kill me without a single worry." This after proclaiming how he never felt threatened by cops in China, ironically is actually a state apparatus that regularly kills/imprison/disappears political dissidents. Why don't you try to advocate for the Falun Gung in China, let's see how non-threatening those cops are while they're breaking your legs, or worse?

- "The collective American conscience has a gun fetish, invades other countries for business profits, kills a black person every 9 hours, and only cares about the rich."

The rest is generally a mixture of "Well, I don't know/never been there/from the movies/I heard somewhere" + "yea, America is terrible" with the occasional sprinkling of "MY people would never do that!". Tell me, how is that any different than the typical "Eww, don't you know what those (insert race/ethnicity/religion) people are like??" line from bigots?

Malicious? Outside of a few, no. Ignorant? Absolutely.

From where I stand the behavior of many in here is no different than one who after reading a few news reports and a couple movies about urban crimes decided that African Americans are all violent criminals or all Latinos are gang members. That is the level of ignorance displayed in here.

 

[Abbyka]

I think humanity as a whole is pretty violent and selfish. It can differ in severity in different countries, but it's a humanity issue not an American one. Putting the blame on one specific country as the source is denial. Everyone needs to change, not just America.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Oh yeah. I'm flat out freaked out to even go to the US, lest I run the risk of going to a place that's slightly worse than another and get my face shot. But there's a lot more to the US than violence that makes me not wanna go there ever. Now, relax with any pitchforks you might have. Yes, I am certain you folks have some amazing people, just like any country would. But, after seeing and hearing plenty of things, I'm afraid it's left a rather un-impressive perspective on the country itself. Your government is doing absolutely fuck all to improve that perspective as well. And the wars. And the gun control. And the... etc etc etc

 

[Parasondox]

And you might have a point if I weren't able to simply pull all these from this thread alone:

- "I refuse to set foot on US soil, as far as I'm concerned everyone has guns, and guns kill people. And people there (as far as I hear) are violent and intolerant."

- "I think you're bloody psychopaths. I won't even go to America because I'm afraid I'll get shot. Your cops are racist, state-sponsored murderers and half your people think a gun is more important than a child's life." Blah blah blah goes on to compare the US with child rapists and killers

- "It seems a culture that glorifies power. Be it through threat of violence, oney or other means. With a decent bit of paranoia throw in that others seek to take said power for themselves"

- "When I was in America, I was extremely aware that every single cop is a bloody threat and if I act strange, they will shoot and kill me without a single worry." This after proclaiming how he never felt threatened by cops in China, ironically is actually a state apparatus that regularly kills/imprison/disappears political dissidents. Why don't you try to advocate for the Falun Gung in China, let's see how non-threatening those cops are while they're breaking your legs, or worse?

- "The collective American conscience has a gun fetish, invades other countries for business profits, kills a black person every 9 hours, and only cares about the rich."

The rest is generally a mixture of "Well, I don't know/never been there/from the movies/I heard somewhere" + "yea, America is terrible" with the occasional sprinkling of "MY people would never do that!". Tell me, how is that any different than the typical "Eww, don't you know what those (insert race/ethnicity/religion) people are like??" line from bigots?

Malicious? Outside of a few, no. Ignorant? Absolutely.

From where I stand the behavior of many in here is no different than one who after reading a few news reports and a couple movies about urban crimes decided that African Americans are all violent criminals or all Latinos are gang members. That is the level of ignorance displayed in here.

Ahhhhhh shit. I can't defend all of that. I see what you mean. Getting examples about a country from movies and other parts of media doesn't paint the picture of what the american people and culture are like. If that were the case, I would assume everyone in India sang every 10 minutes and break out into a dance sequence. Damn, Bollywood is fun.

Also your news media don't help the case you know. I know the black and Latin communities aren't drug dealing, gang shooting thugs but your news needs to stop creating and fueling these stereotypes. American right wing and left wing news are broadcasted across the world and they are, I can't believe I am about to say this, important in reporting the facts to the rest of the country and the world. When you hear and read headlines about how another black man was shot dead by police or another school shooting has happened, or how gun activists have so much power in politics, or how documentaries show how teaching kids the wrong lesson about guns (yes you can teach kids about the safety of guns because safety is important, Guns aren't friendly), or how your politicians wish to fight and bomb a nation that don't agree with them, or how your news treats immigrants even though they advertise your nation as "THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE FUCKING WORLD AND WHO WOULDNT WANT TO LIVE HERE? Land of the free." and then have a very bad attitude towards those who try to make it up the ladder, or how... you get the point.

I do see what you mean though but your news media, left and right wing, aren't giving the world a good picture on how America is like to the rest of the world.

The american people are very friendly and yes, just like any nation, you will have the rotten lot that makes the basket smell badly.

 

[Abbyka]

Oh yeah. I'm flat out freaked out to even go to the US, lest I run the risk of going to a place that's slightly worse than another and get my face shot. But there's a lot more to the US than violence that makes me not wanna go there ever. Now, relax with any pitchforks you might have. Yes, I am certain you folks have some amazing people, just like any country would. But, after seeing and hearing plenty of things, I'm afraid it's left a rather un-impressive perspective on the country itself. Your government is doing absolutely fuck all to improve that perspective as well. And the wars. And the gun control. And the... etc etc etc

I live in the US. I've lived in a few cities(not huge ones) but have mostly lived in small towns. You're pretty much as safe as any other country if you stick to small towns. Worst crime we've had here in my town this year was someone using counterfeit money. It's mainly big cities like NYC or Chicago that give a bad rap for the rest of the country. Not to mention school shootings. US does have it's issues, but it's not like the wild west here or anything. I do agree there needs to be stricter gun laws, but the perception that it's too dangerous to travel here is a bit much. Yeah, gun violence can happen anywhere in the US, but it's uncommon in smaller towns.

It's safe to travel to the US, trust me. But no matter where you travel you should always be cautious and make sure you're not alone. That's just common sense no matter where you travel. Even if you're only traveling from one state to another(or in the UK I think it's one province to another? Correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[MorphBallBomb]

You're really really unlikely to be shot in the USA unless you do one of three things:

1.) deal in hard drugs.

2.) trespass onto a rural loony's property.

3.) be a black American and interact with a police officer (African immigrants are not targeted as heavily for some reason).

If you're just travelling here, the risk is infinitesimal.
#3 really really bothers me.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

Hmmm Americans tend to demonise sex. It goes beyond "not putting it on display", they tend to react badly to their children even being taught about sex (compared to European countries) for example. They have a very love/hate relationship with it.

Violence on the other hand, well their 2nd Amendment is about giving everyone the right to carry around weapons designed for killing, and their culture is very pro-war. I did hear about one strange thing recently though.

Apparently, despite being pro-war, when soldiers are killed in an American war it isn't headline news over there.

With regard to the first two points (Anti-Sex, Pro-Guns/War), I think you're making the assumption that U.S. citizens are wholly represented by Christian Conservatives. From what I've seen living the vast majority of my life in a political swing state (or "purple" state; one that doesn't consistently vote for Democrats or Republicans) - most of us around here think those people are completely bonkers too. They're just the loudest voice in the country right now. This is partly because they themselves are extremely loud and obnoxious, but also because they're such easy targets for the opposition to take jabs at - meaning that pretty much everyone is constantly putting their bullshit at the forefront of the news. I wouldn't even say that they're representative of the Republican party as a whole, though it does spend an awful lot of time pandering to them (because their party is ridiculously fractured, and needs them to be able to compete with the considerably less fractured Democrats).

I admittedly don't know if it's a regular occurrence throughout the state, but my hometown (and the surrounding towns) started sex education in middle school (8th grade, to be specific) and continued it into high school. It wasn't one of those "abstinence" programs that get lots of media coverage, either. It was legitimately educational, and as far as I'm aware it's still being taught to this day with no major protest from parents. No students within my class opted out of it, either.

As for guns, I don't think they're really quite as prevalent as people make them seem. Yes, there are a freaking ton of them compared to other countries, and that's mostly unfortunate - but it's not like every single citizen is packing heat. The stats that show number of legal guns owned compared to number of citizens often don't account for the fact that the people who are fanatical about guns tend to own A LOT of guns. It's rarely a one-gun-per-person thing when it comes to 2nd Amendment supporters. Around here where I live it's mostly just farmers and hunters with firearms, so we're talking mostly shotguns and bolt-action rifles - not quite the MAC-10s and AR-15s that the media seems to say everyone's walking around with. I've never in my lifetime ever seen a person behave irresponsibly with a firearm, or even heard of it happening around here. Through my work I'm friendly with most of the local police officers, and I've only met one who has ever even drawn his sidearm (and it was against a rabid skunk because animal control got stuck in traffic). The cops around here don't cruise around in armored personnel carriers, they're not all decked out in military-grade body armor, and each station only has a single assault rifle (which was made mandatory back in the 90's) collecting dust because the worst crime we get around here involves teens spray painting shit, people driving a little too fast, and the occasional noise violation on a Friday/Saturday night. That's not just going by what the cops say, either - I read the weekly police incident reports, which are made publicly available to us in the local news.

As for being Pro-War... even that, I'm not so sure. Post-9/11, definitely. After 9/11 it was uncommon to find someone who didn't want to bomb the crap out of the people responsible for attacking us. But by the time Bush dragged us into Iraq, there was a very sizable amount of people in this country that protested going to war. There's still a huge number of people that want us to go back to a more isolationist disposition - the government just doesn't feel like listening, and that's hardly the people's fault (voting doesn't really solve it either; political corruption is crazy common - both parties are just two sides of the same piece of corporate-sponsored coinage). I can absolutely confirm for you though that a soldier being killed in action does make the news, it just tends to make more local news than national. There was a Marine Lance Corporal that was killed in action in Iraq from my hometown, and it definitely made the local news. Even if you don't read the news, you know when it happens because all of the flags in the area are flown at half-mast.

 

[omega 616]

snip

Honest to god, I am scared to visit your country!

I know news is all doom and gloom but shit, the stuff I hear that comes out of your country is SCARY!

Gun crime, drug crime, gangs, every psycho can have a gun (that famous quote by George Carlin ?Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.? and then arm them idiots!), you accept school shootings as an almost monthly event, cops seem criminals with a uniform and your government just loves to invade poor countries!

I know deep down that 99.9% of Americans are the loveliest people and just going about their lives (shit, apparently Americans are much more likely to start a conversation with a stranger. In the UK we just don't do that, about half a percent of the population do just start talking to you and the other 99.5% hate that 0.5%) but the news that comes out of your country and the actions of your government make me fear you!

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

... but the news that comes out of your country and the actions of your government make me fear you!

The news is kinda the problem there. There's no such thing as journalistic integrity these days. Televised and especially print news are hurting for profits, so they only run stories that are 'shocking' (or pandering; most "news" produced in my country now has a huge amount of political bias - it's not just Fox doing it) because that's what gets higher ratings. It's crazy manipulative, and creates a pretty unrealistically negative image of the country as a whole.

Violent crime has actually been on a pretty steady decline for a while now... but national news has been reporting it at a significantly higher rate than it did a few decades ago, for little reason beyond ratings. It's disgusting, quite frankly, and the reason why I get most of my national news from foreign sources (they're still pretty bad, but LESS bad).

I've got nothing to defend our government though. Bunch of incompetent corporate stooges.

CAPTCHA: do you speak spanish?

In a decade or two, probably. ZING!

 

[Zetatrain]

Should it? I mean soldiers dying in war is routine and nothing out of the ordinary. And whether or not your culture is pro and anti-war, the mundane and ordinary typically isn't headline worthy (at least on a national scale).

I wouldn't really say that soldiers dying is routine and not out of the ordinary. War isn't ordinary. People dying in some foreign land in the name of your country isn't ordinary. If soldiers died here in the UK their faces were all over TV and newspapers, because war isn't mundane.

I don't know about that. When you have a war that's been going on for like 10+ years, hearing about casualties becomes routine, unless its someone you know or from you hometown.

Also, I partially take back what said earlier. Up until at least 2008 I would pretty much always hear about soldiers dying in Iraqi or Afghanistan on the TV, Newspaper, Internet, etc. First few years it was definitely headline stuff but as the wars dragged on those stories got less attention but the media would still talk about them. And that is just on a national level, if a soldier from your city or state was killed in action you would definitely hear about it on the local news.