Not Wanting a Girlfriend is a "Serious Illness"

[Therumancer]

I wrote a long response to this, but decided to simplify.

I think Japan's big problem is a matter of rapid cultural change since the end of World War II, gender roles have been moved around substantially. For girls to not be forced into arranged marriages and be able to say "no" is fairly new, and for guys in a culture that still has a big focus on "face" the abillity of a girl to say "no" and be cruel about it is unusually horrifying, more so than cultures where this has been the case for a much longer period of time, or where things had not been so rigid in the past.

I also think there is an issue with standards of beauty, I've read some stuff analyzing lolicon and the reasons for it, and the conflict between the Japanese tradition of child brides and attributing youth to beauty (which leads into things like the high pitched voices cultivated in public service) and recent enforced changes against having sex with children.

Basically in a culture where a generation or so ago, it was expected that someone was going to marry a 12 year old who might not have much choice in the matter, suddenly being in a generation that has to court girls on a much mor equal footing can probably be awkward with surprisingly little to have learned from. I mean if your parents were around when mine were in the 1960s or whatever, only a decade or two after WW II and did things "traditionally" how do people from a borderline arranged marraige reassure their kid about dating?

There is also apparently a trend towards having wives that are much younger than you are. This means some guy marrying late in life might expect to marry an 18 to 20 year old and of course with women having more empowerment and choice in the matter.. that might be tricky, especially if the guy doesn't have money.

Not to mention the tradition I've read about which is still apparently in force to an extent where the wife is expected to help take care of the husband's parents and such. Oftentimes leading to a wife having to virtually abandon their own family, which again is not exactly an appealing prospect that has girls jumping up and down with joy now that they have more of a choice in the matter.

That's my thoughts at any rate.

 

[Therumancer]

"I think what everybody's forgetting is, anybody who DOESN'T want a girlfriend... is GAY!"

-paraphrasing of a wise man.

I have the solution to all of Japans problems. The only thing they need to do is ship me to Tokio and I promise I will inseminate as many cute and sexy young japanese women as humanly possible.

No need to thank me.

antlers up, the Sunhero races forward?

Is it weird that I read "humanly" as "humanely"?

Yeah, no need to inflict yourself on a huge number of people!

Nah, you're a nice guy [small]I imagine...[/small]

Didn't The Young Turks just run a story about how only 40% of Japanese girls are interested in sex, with a large percent saying the idea was repulsive? And they blamed the men, too. WTH?!

To be fair, if you'd seen the market for Japanese fetish porn, you would not be surprised.

I decided to break up my previous giga-post to put part of it in response to this which was more appropriate and give things more focus.

I read the same article this guy did, and a few others besides. I think it goes beyond fetish porn to be honest, though ironically a lot of what I'm about to say comes from an article I was reading about the lack of asian, especially Japanese, male leads in porn. What sounds like the lead in to a penis joke, is actually simply the point that Japanese guys tend to be pretty ugly when you get down to it. I never really thought about it until I read that, but then I realized I couldn't think of one Japanese guy who was a sex symbol to women or I had even heard called attractive. There are a few asian guys in general, like that Korean guy "Rain" who did the "Ninja Warrior" movie, I knew one girl who really liked him (and I guess he's a big pop star in Korea or something as well), but when I think of Japanese guys tha aren't animated I keep thinking of some dude running on top of an elevated water barrel in an old Japanese game show called Takahashi's Castle. That's pretty sad when you consider all the Japanese horror movies and such I've seen.

Now, maybe it's just that I've met the wrong girls, and some of the ladies on these forums can enlighten me about all these studdly Japanese men, that are out there, but reading that porn article I get the impression they are few and far between. Basically there aren't many (which is not to say there aren't any) guys they could call to play "The Samurai Hose Monster" or whatever which was allegedly actually a problem with thematic scripting (as shocking as it is to think that they put much thought into it).

I can't help but think that there might be a connection along with cultural issues I mentioned in my other post. I mean "Japanese men are ugly" sounds like a bad joke, but I actually have read stuff about this, and put some thought into it, and now this article.

I re-wrote this here to make it a bit more appropriate and tried to state it carefully to make it clear that I'm not just trying to be intentionally insulting. Which is incidently why I'm sort of asking the ladies if they can correct this by listing tons of hot Japanese guys or something.

When I myself have been reading other articles outside of the one on porno, that do have figures like 40% of Japanese girls finding sex repulsive, I really have to wonder given the diverse sources.

Of course to be honest, while I don't think it's the only factor, I have to admit if I thought people interested in me were into some of the things I've read in Japanese porn, and that was what sex would be like, I wouldn't be interested either. I mean you could take the most awesomely beautiful girl in the world, and if she wanted to do an equivilent of some of the stuff I see girls subjected to in hentai and Manga, or I suspected I did from her reading habits, my answer would be "no" too. I am a perv but I have to admit I do have limits and Japanese porn has gone places that have challenged my gag reflexs.... and this is coming from a guy who reads Edward Lee novels for the lulz (they are darkly amusing). If I was young and unjaded (wow it's been a long time) I think "utter fear" would be a pretty good description, it took a long and gradual climb to hit my current plateau/tolerance for wierd, and the Japanese do manage to get more more than I'd like to admit.

 

[Therumancer]

here's my 2 cents: being a guy who's been in enough relationships to know that not wanting a girlfriend isnt a sickness, its a conscious decision based on common sense, why waste time and energy on something thats filled with drama and heartache when it can be spent playing vid games and checking out new tech?

Well, the key differance here is that Japan's birth rate is apparently suffering to the point of the goverment noticing. A lack of sex means no new babies, and without babies a culture can't thrive and remain strong, you need that young generation. To be honest I do believe Japan has an overpopulation problem, so less people isn't all bad, but I can see why it's something to be concerned about, especially if they see like a 40% population drop coming in a generation or two based on the statistics.

As I mentioned in the more serious of my responses, I think there are also cultural issues involved, and with the way Japan and it's gender roles have changed, it's influancing things, hence the goverment encouragement.

In my less serious response I did make note (with other posters) of an article about Japanese girls not being interested in sex or finding it repulsive, which made me think of some other articles about Japanese men in general... or simply the state of Japanese porn and what it probably says about sex.

I mean all kidding aside, let's say you were much younger and less jaded than you are now, and you saw all this wierd porn the Japanese release everywhere. All the members of the opposite sex seem to be reading stuff that would be horribly painful for you snd challenges your gag reflex with odd grins. I mean even if you had hot girls (or guys) all over you, you might not exactly be in a mad rush to experience that.

 

[mightybozz]

Someone's probably already said this, but if Japan were more open to feminist ideas and criticism, then women might be in a position in the contemporary world in which they would appeal to young men.

If you only treat women as objects, then your ability to interact with them is limited. If technology then allows you to acquire those objects through quicker and more efficient means, then why bother with flesh and blood women?

Essentially, if you have a situation in which you don't value a deep emotional connection with someone you choose to spend your life with, then you don't need a real woman to do spend your life with.

Unless you're aware that women are individuals with minds of their own, and not simply domestic servitude on legs, then you won't value an actual relationship.

And in case anyone accuses me of baseless racism, I refer you to the World Economic Forum's report on the Global Gender Gap 2011 - Japan does not do well, especially amongst developed countries... www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GenderGap_Report_2011.pdf

 

[Snotnarok]

Well if their men stopped looking so girlish maybe they'd be finding more girls. Kidding, kidding.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

"I think what everybody's forgetting is, anybody who DOESN'T want a girlfriend... is GAY!"

-paraphrasing of a wise man.

He clearly doesn't understand the risk of having a bf or a gf. Even if I was gay, I wouldn't just go out looking for some guy. I've heard way too many stories of people who have become emotional wrecks because their bf or gf broke up with them. Actually, I'm pretty sure I explained this in another post I made here previously.

it's a family guy joke. it's how peter convinced congress to go to war

Oh. Ok then. :3

Not ok.

What you've forgotten is, anyone who can't identify a parroted family guy joke... IS GAY!

 

[MrBaguette]

Meh more for us normal folk!

 

[samaugsch]

"I think what everybody's forgetting is, anybody who DOESN'T want a girlfriend... is GAY!"

-paraphrasing of a wise man.

He clearly doesn't understand the risk of having a bf or a gf. Even if I was gay, I wouldn't just go out looking for some guy. I've heard way too many stories of people who have become emotional wrecks because their bf or gf broke up with them. Actually, I'm pretty sure I explained this in another post I made here previously.

it's a family guy joke. it's how peter convinced congress to go to war

Oh. Ok then. :3

Not ok.

What you've forgotten is, anyone who can't identify a parroted family guy joke... IS GAY!

Awww.

 

[Micalas]

What you've forgotten is, anyone who can't identify a parroted family guy joke... IS GAY!

Awww. [/quote]

Response goes perfectly with avatar

 

[Double A]

And let's not even get started on his views of gay guys.

Oh wait, too late.

This seems like an inversion of cause-and-effect.

Good to know that he's being consistent with modern society as a whole. Now we can safely ignore him instead of fearing the .00001% chance that he's right.

 

[samaugsch]

What you've forgotten is, anyone who can't identify a parroted family guy joke... IS GAY!

Awww.

Response goes perfectly with avatar[/quote]
Hehe. I originally wanted a picture of Yahtzee grinning with a rope around his neck and a gun pointed at himself, but couldn't find it so I just used this picture instead. They're both from the same video.

 

[Micalas]

What you've forgotten is, anyone who can't identify a parroted family guy joke... IS GAY!

Awww.

Response goes perfectly with avatar

Hehe. I originally wanted a picture of Yahtzee grinning with a rope around his neck and a gun pointed at himself, but couldn't find it so I just used this picture instead. They're both from the same video.[/quote]

Y U No take screenshot and crop?!

 

[Paladin Anderson]

This is just another "There's a social problem.... blame video games!"

There are many reasons why Japan's population has been falling since the 80s.

First of all, women there are becoming more liberated and perusing careers so they're marrying later and thus having fewer kids. Those who have children are pressured to stay home and raise them. So they must choose between a career and children.

Secondly, the male has to shoulder the burden of his family's income needs because his wife is pressured out of the work place. So he has to work miserably long hours. Not only does this make you not want to have a family but on top of that they don't want to have sex when they get home because they're exhausted!

Their society is set up in a way that makes you not want to have children!

So, if there's any truth to this article, then it's just part of Japan's population problem.

While, I can't see it as much of a "problem" considering how grotesquely over populated they are. Eventually they were going to hit the point where they simply CAN'T support any more people. By trying to encourage population growth to return to normal, they're just delaying the inevitable.

 

[Taunta]

They're definitely grasping at straws here, and in a way, I sympathize. It's not an easy thing to sit down and decide that your culture needs to advance by a few decades. Maybe if you weren't so xenophobic, you'd be welcoming to more foreigners who would no doubt interbreed. Maybe if you weren't so objectifying towards women, men would see girlfriends as having more value. And then women wouldn't have to sacrifice everything to raise a family and cater to their elderly. It would be more okay for Japanese people to emigrate.

As for those demonizing women in the comments, shame on you. You're not helping the matter by painting all women as evil, etc. And if all the women you date were indeed evil, that's probably less a reflection on them and more a reflection on you for your poor choice in women. Maybe you should consider why you've developed a pattern for seeking out evil women.

 

[shadowstriker86]

here's my 2 cents: being a guy who's been in enough relationships to know that not wanting a girlfriend isnt a sickness, its a conscious decision based on common sense, why waste time and energy on something thats filled with drama and heartache when it can be spent playing vid games and checking out new tech?

Well, the key differance here is that Japan's birth rate is apparently suffering to the point of the goverment noticing. A lack of sex means no new babies, and without babies a culture can't thrive and remain strong, you need that young generation. To be honest I do believe Japan has an overpopulation problem, so less people isn't all bad, but I can see why it's something to be concerned about, especially if they see like a 40% population drop coming in a generation or two based on the statistics.

As I mentioned in the more serious of my responses, I think there are also cultural issues involved, and with the way Japan and it's gender roles have changed, it's influancing things, hence the goverment encouragement.

In my less serious response I did make note (with other posters) of an article about Japanese girls not being interested in sex or finding it repulsive, which made me think of some other articles about Japanese men in general... or simply the state of Japanese porn and what it probably says about sex.

I mean all kidding aside, let's say you were much younger and less jaded than you are now, and you saw all this wierd porn the Japanese release everywhere. All the members of the opposite sex seem to be reading stuff that would be horribly painful for you snd challenges your gag reflex with odd grins. I mean even if you had hot girls (or guys) all over you, you might not exactly be in a mad rush to experience that.

Well lets rewind the clock a bit back to when i was 12. not only did i first discover hentai and all that jazz, i managed to make a business out of selling it to my friends at school (mind you this is when the internet first came out and no one really knew what hentai was yet at my school) to make money to pay for dates with girls i would later regret asking out, the porn was just a backup plan in case my luck didnt fare that day. but ya like you said i think its a massive cultural difference

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

I guess I'm sick. I know I could get a girlfriend if I really wanted to, but there isn't any point. I don't need to feel loved by someone else to be happy.

 

[Therumancer]

Well lets rewind the clock a bit back to when i was 12. not only did i first discover hentai and all that jazz, i managed to make a business out of selling it to my friends at school (mind you this is when the internet first came out and no one really knew what hentai was yet at my school) to make money to pay for dates with girls i would later regret asking out, the porn was just a backup plan in case my luck didnt fare that day. but ya like you said i think its a massive cultural difference

Well, the thing is that aside from the cultural differances Hentai is a limited market here in the US, and availible in comparitively limited quantities. What's more it runs the gamut of levels of intensity from relatively normal stuff to some really mind blowing fetishes. The big differance is largely in terms of availibility where in the US all of the really warped stuff DOES exist but it's not sitting right there and promoted the same way alongside "normal" porn. It's like the differance between a movie you'd buy from an adult video store, or rent if you still have a rental place in your neighborhood, and one availible only by special request from behind the counter where it's not generally visible, or has to be special ordered from outlets that generally don't advertise publically.

The thing is that with Hentai you could have anything from a "Porky's" type story or "The X-men" that jus involves more actual sex or is more descriptive to it, to the whole "raped by really inhuman demons". The whole tentecle thing is a stereotype because it's so bloody common to hentai to the point of basically being a default kink. Then you have stuff where you have rapes, torture, sexual murder in the form of guro, all appearing pretty much over the counter. I mean you tell someone about Gilles De Rais cutting holes in young boys and then having sex with the bloody orfices of his own creation, combined with all the devil worshop aspects and stuff, people will go "wow, that's sick" you'll find people who are into that for that shock value in porn, and there is western stuff based on that out there, but with Hentai you can find stuff like that with minimal effort to the point where the equivilent is pretty much everywhere.

See, you pushing Hentai in school worked because it was unusual in the US and there is the whole appeal of the shock value of it (people do enjoy being shocked even if many don't admit it). There is a differance between something that is special and unusual because you have to get it like you describe, and is still viewed as fairly safe because it's origin is on the other side of the planet, from a people who are generally considered to be evil and under occupation (allies of the Nazis during WW II, currently under US occupation as we have Japan pretty much covered with military bases.. even if we're fairly diplomatic about it. It's only fairly recent that Japan got to have any kind of military again) and thus no real threat with this stuff being under control to where we are now. It's differant when it's right in your back yard and some guy is say obviously getting off on sexual murder and mutilation, which he's seeing graphic depictions of from a book he picked up pretty easily right off a shelf.

See, if you grew up in an enviroment where men have a history of being oppressed, and women are known for their cruel sexul behaviors reinforced throughout a good portion of the history, all of the women read porno at least in limited doses that are about horribly torturing and mutlilating men during sex, or seeing horrible things happen to them in a sexual context even if actual women are not involved. Some of it would probably be determined to be expressions of resentment over the empowerment of men if psychologically analyzed. A lot of casual sexual encounters take place in dedicated "love motels" which are in many cases amount to collections of fetish rooms (I've posted links to some odd ones in the past, like the Hello Kitty theme bondage room). How the heck would you react to that? Your interest in sex might be minimal.

There are the cultural trends, but the point is that I think the porn produced by those trends, and it's sheer availibility and how it's handled within society contributes as well. In the US there is no real comparison, because the person you wind up with in high school is probably not someone you've grown up with seeing get hot and bothered over snuff porn in an enviroment where it's considered socially acceptable.

 

[shadowstriker86]

Well lets rewind the clock a bit back to when i was 12. not only did i first discover hentai and all that jazz, i managed to make a business out of selling it to my friends at school (mind you this is when the internet first came out and no one really knew what hentai was yet at my school) to make money to pay for dates with girls i would later regret asking out, the porn was just a backup plan in case my luck didnt fare that day. but ya like you said i think its a massive cultural difference

Well, the thing is that aside from the cultural differances Hentai is a limited market here in the US, and availible in comparitively limited quantities. What's more it runs the gamut of levels of intensity from relatively normal stuff to some really mind blowing fetishes. The big differance is largely in terms of availibility where in the US all of the really warped stuff DOES exist but it's not sitting right there and promoted the same way alongside "normal" porn. It's like the differance between a movie you'd buy from an adult video store, or rent if you still have a rental place in your neighborhood, and one availible only by special request from behind the counter where it's not generally visible, or has to be special ordered from outlets that generally don't advertise publically.

The thing is that with Hentai you could have anything from a "Porky's" type story or "The X-men" that jus involves more actual sex or is more descriptive to it, to the whole "raped by really inhuman demons". The whole tentecle thing is a stereotype because it's so bloody common to hentai to the point of basically being a default kink. Then you have stuff where you have rapes, torture, sexual murder in the form of guro, all appearing pretty much over the counter. I mean you tell someone about Gilles De Rais cutting holes in young boys and then having sex with the bloody orfices of his own creation, combined with all the devil worshop aspects and stuff, people will go "wow, that's sick" you'll find people who are into that for that shock value in porn, and there is western stuff based on that out there, but with Hentai you can find stuff like that with minimal effort to the point where the equivilent is pretty much everywhere.

See, you pushing Hentai in school worked because it was unusual in the US and there is the whole appeal of the shock value of it (people do enjoy being shocked even if many don't admit it). There is a differance between something that is special and unusual because you have to get it like you describe, and is still viewed as fairly safe because it's origin is on the other side of the planet, from a people who are generally considered to be evil and under occupation (allies of the Nazis during WW II, currently under US occupation as we have Japan pretty much covered with military bases.. even if we're fairly diplomatic about it. It's only fairly recent that Japan got to have any kind of military again) and thus no real threat with this stuff being under control to where we are now. It's differant when it's right in your back yard and some guy is say obviously getting off on sexual murder and mutilation, which he's seeing graphic depictions of from a book he picked up pretty easily right off a shelf.

See, if you grew up in an enviroment where men have a history of being oppressed, and women are known for their cruel sexul behaviors reinforced throughout a good portion of the history, all of the women read porno at least in limited doses that are about horribly torturing and mutlilating men during sex, or seeing horrible things happen to them in a sexual context even if actual women are not involved. Some of it would probably be determined to be expressions of resentment over the empowerment of men if psychologically analyzed. A lot of casual sexual encounters take place in dedicated "love motels" which are in many cases amount to collections of fetish rooms (I've posted links to some odd ones in the past, like the Hello Kitty theme bondage room). How the heck would you react to that? Your interest in sex might be minimal.

There are the cultural trends, but the point is that I think the porn produced by those trends, and it's sheer availibility and how it's handled within society contributes as well. In the US there is no real comparison, because the person you wind up with in high school is probably not someone you've grown up with seeing get hot and bothered over snuff porn in an enviroment where it's considered socially acceptable.

so basically kids over there are like the kid from "worlds greatest dad?"

skip to 0:21

 

[Therumancer]

[


so basically kids over there are like the kid from "worlds greatest dad?"

skip to 0:21

I'd say that came close, except the kid he was showing the porn to wouldn't be immediatly revolted and be equally excited, and instead of porn being snuck in from outside the country, this would be something he obtained with minimal effort from the comics rack at a drug store from among their large selection of similar titles.

 

[shadowstriker86]

[


so basically kids over there are like the kid from "worlds greatest dad?"

skip to 0:21

I'd say that came close, except the kid he was showing the porn to wouldn't be immediatly revolted and be equally excited, and instead of porn being snuck in from outside the country, this would be something he obtained with minimal effort from the comics rack at a drug store from among their large selection of similar titles.

thats kind of both funny and sad at the same time, funny because its that easy to get and sad because its just a very quick way of desensitization, like when you ride goliath at six flags and it kind of ruins the thrill of everything else cause you already went on the most intense ride at the park