NSA's SKYNET Program May Be Killing Innocents, and Tested in MMOs

Czann

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Neverhoodian said:
Czann said:
What I find funny is people's reaction to this.

Terrorists murder an awful lot of people in cold blood: "OH NOES! We need to do something to stop this."

Government does something to stop terrorists: "OH NOES! We need to do something to stop this."

Sigh... Just give the keys of the White House to ISIS and be done with it.
You can probably blame my upbringing for that...along with watching a lot of Star Trek in the 90's:

"You made a military decision to protect your ship and crew. But you're a Starfleet officer, Worf. We don't put civilians at risk or even potentially at risk to save ourselves. Sometimes that means we lose the battle, and sometimes our lives. But if you can't make that choice, then you can't wear that uniform."
-Benjamin Sisko

If finding such lines inspiring makes me a dewy-eyed idealist, so be it.
I think that's a pretty powerful line actually. Star Trek is the best "Star something" we have.
 

MCerberus

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RJ 17 said:
MCerberus said:
Poe's Law is complicated by a political primary season where candidates have mentioned they were up for such an idea before casually mentioning that they'd engage in actions that would directly lead to WW3.

So the reason your post is taken seriously is because people actually think actions that would lead to the end of humanity are a good idea, and we're all sick of them cluttering our facebook feeds.
Easy fix for that, my friend: delete your Facebook account. Problem solved. :3
So would I like to be surprised by the depths of idiocy screeching forth from the depths of the infinite echo chambers or be put into a situation to genuinely empathize with Cassandra from the Iliad?

I never imagined social media would turn everything into a Greek tragedy.
Other than Narcissus. Everyone saw that one coming.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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You know, I'm just going to Nazi the shit out of this: I blame Operation Paperclip.

Seriously, Hydra used a more high-tech version of this plan in Cap 2. What the ever-living fuck.
 

Gorrath

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Neverhoodian said:
Czann said:
What I find funny is people's reaction to this.

Terrorists murder an awful lot of people in cold blood: "OH NOES! We need to do something to stop this."

Government does something to stop terrorists: "OH NOES! We need to do something to stop this."

Sigh... Just give the keys of the White House to ISIS and be done with it.
You can probably blame my upbringing for that...along with watching a lot of Star Trek in the 90's:

"You made a military decision to protect your ship and crew. But you're a Starfleet officer, Worf. We don't put civilians at risk or even potentially at risk to save ourselves. Sometimes that means we lose the battle, and sometimes our lives. But if you can't make that choice, then you can't wear that uniform."
-Benjamin Sisko

If finding such lines inspiring makes me a dewy-eyed idealist, so be it.
Star Trek is one of my great loves but it certainly does make you an idealist, to be sure. DS9 also had another powerful moment I remember and it was one I learned very well myself when I served. Kira Nerys talked at some length about how if they refused to make any attack that would potentially or even certainly lead to the death of innocent people, the Cardassians would have just made sure every target was shielded by innocent people. At that point, she said they might as well just have given up.

Kira is right and Sisko's speech is foolish.
 

BoogieManFL

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I think the main thing to take away from all this is "May be targeting" not "is" or "has" so don't go all crazy assuming they're just flying around out there bombing people with no human oversight. Sounds like it's a work in progress.

But seriously.. Skynet guys? Really?
 

RJ 17

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Nov 27, 2011
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MCerberus said:
RJ 17 said:
MCerberus said:
Poe's Law is complicated by a political primary season where candidates have mentioned they were up for such an idea before casually mentioning that they'd engage in actions that would directly lead to WW3.

So the reason your post is taken seriously is because people actually think actions that would lead to the end of humanity are a good idea, and we're all sick of them cluttering our facebook feeds.
Easy fix for that, my friend: delete your Facebook account. Problem solved. :3
So would I like to be surprised by the depths of idiocy screeching forth from the depths of the infinite echo chambers or be put into a situation to genuinely empathize with Cassandra from the Iliad?

I never imagined social media would turn everything into a Greek tragedy.
Other than Narcissus. Everyone saw that one coming.
Eh, just do what I do and live by this motto: "One can only laugh at a world gone insane lest they go insane as well."

Looking at the state of current events, it's a wonder more people haven't turned to Nihilism.
 

Neverhoodian

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Gorrath said:
Star Trek is one of my great loves but it certainly does make you an idealist, to be sure. DS9 also had another powerful moment I remember and it was one I learned very well myself when I served. Kira Nerys talked at some length about how if they refused to make any attack that would potentially or even certainly lead to the death of innocent people, the Cardassians would have just made sure every target was shielded by innocent people. At that point, she said they might as well just have given up.

Kira is right and Sisko's speech is foolish.
Using my sci-fi crush as a compelling counter-argument...well played...though I would point out that the Bajorans were the paramilitary organization in that conflict, and the Cardassians never attempted to take the moral high ground.

And just to play devil's advocate on myself, my quote came from the same character who went on to poison an entire world to stop the Maquis (to say nothing of compromising his morals and becoming an accessory to murder in an attempt to tip the balance of the Dominion War). DS9 is filled with instances like this, where the squeaky-clean ideals collide with cold, harsh reality and don't always survive the encounter.

I'm not totally naive. I realize that sometimes the rules have to be bent to accomodate extraordinary situations. However, I believe such actions should only be taken as a last resort, not made commonplace. We should strive to be better than that.
 

Gorrath

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Neverhoodian said:
Gorrath said:
Star Trek is one of my great loves but it certainly does make you an idealist, to be sure. DS9 also had another powerful moment I remember and it was one I learned very well myself when I served. Kira Nerys talked at some length about how if they refused to make any attack that would potentially or even certainly lead to the death of innocent people, the Cardassians would have just made sure every target was shielded by innocent people. At that point, she said they might as well just have given up.

Kira is right and Sisko's speech is foolish.
Using my sci-fi crush as a compelling counter-argument...well played...though I would point out that the Bajorans were the paramilitary organization in that conflict, and the Cardassians never attempted to take the moral high ground.

And just to play devil's advocate on myself, my quote came from the same character who went on to poison an entire world to stop the Maquis (to say nothing of compromising his morals and becoming an accessory to murder in an attempt to tip the balance of the Dominion War). DS9 is filled with instances like this, where the squeaky-clean ideals collide with cold, harsh reality and don't always survive the encounter.

I'm not totally naive. I realize that sometimes the rules have to be bent to accomodate extraordinary situations. However, I believe such actions should only be taken as a last resort, not made commonplace. We should strive to be better than that.
It's funny you mention that about the Cardassians since Kira was specifically talking to a Cardassian officer about attacking a Dominion-held post that held innocent Cardassians. Specifically, Kira's plan had a high likelyhood of leading to the death of some of the civilians that were present at the outpost. The Cardassian officer she was working with told her that, unlike Bajorans, Cardassians actually cared about innocent people and wouldn't kill their own. Cue Kira's speech about the consequences of such a policy. In the end, the attack commenced as planned.

It's what I love so much about Star Trek, a lot of tough philosophical questions and no character's high ideals ever come out of the show totally unscathed. (It's also why I hate these Abrams movies.) I love the idealism; we should always strive to be the best, most moral people we can. Believe me when I tell you most of us tried very hard to live up to moral idealism but people just do not understand how impossible it is to make instant decisions based on incomplete and sometimes conflicting information while under fire. We have rules of engagement to help make these decisions but war is a messy business. It's why my feathers get all fluffed up when people condemn military men and women for the loss of civilian lives in a broad sense. The vast majority of the time we either have no idea its happening or have no other choice. It's hard enough to deal with those deaths as it is, on a personal level, without people back home acting like you're a evil villain. Not that that sentiment is directed at you of course, you've been great fun to chat with and cheers for it!
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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Czann said:
What I find funny is people's reaction to this.

Terrorists murder an awful lot of people in cold blood: "OH NOES! We need to do something to stop this."

Government does something to stop terrorists: "OH NOES! We need to do something to stop this."

Sigh... Just give the keys of the White House to ISIS and be done with it.
Or, you know, you could do something about it without using programs that has massive amounts of false indentification. heck, it flags turning your phone off as a red flag, something i do every week despite not being a terrorist.

Also terrorists murder count in the west is less than die in car accidents every year. but since terrorists very successfully managed to get people to panic about it (tip: that means they already won) we do all this nonsense.
 

Hero in a half shell

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Bat Vader said:
I feel like them naming it Skynet was meant to be a joke and I feel like people are taking the name more seriously than it needs to be.

There's no way they named it Skynet by accident. That's what makes it funny.
The problem is, it stops being a joke when the direct purpose of the program is to autonomously detect and murder people based off statistical analysis that they are fully aware has a chance of being completely and uttery incorrect.

They coded a murder machine, let it murder people knowing it could be selecting the wrong people, and jokingly named it after an evil murder machine from a movie that ruined the human civilization.

That's not a lighthearted joke, that's a sick insult.

The worst way to conduct a war against guerrilla terrorists is to prove their propaganda right, and provide them with martyrs by committing war crimes against them. That is exactly what America is doing in the Middle East. It's suicidal madness, like trying to put out a house fire by pouring oil on it.