Nuclear power: Your thoughts (and a German ranting)

[kelevra]

So, my country's gone and done it.

We're abandoning nuclear power, if you're lazy.

Here's a link in English
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14909851,00.html

And here's the one I originally read. (Deutsch)
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,752631,00.html

SCHEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSE

I'm as green (in the sense of the word that the rest of the world uses it) as any German you're likely to meet. I recycle. I put up with the sound of wind-farms THWUMP THWUMP THWUMP-ing away in a farm not far away from my hometown. Germany builds alot of massive, heavy duty industrial stuff, and I genuinely believe that our gigantic chemical industry shouldnt use the atlantic or baltic as a fucking dumping zone.

But this is TOO DAMN FUCKING MUCH.

Germany's Greens (our quasi communist hippy left wing party) are a little to damn self absorbed to think rationally about things, so I'll break it down nicely for those Green FUCKING IDIOTS.

1)The Greens- middle-class, comfortable, ignorant dipshits that they are- probably don't even realise that Germany only has such a large, comfortable, ignorant middle class because of its damn industry.

Which is massive.

Which needs power.

Which in turn means we produce the sixth most carbon emissions in the world- even with nukes helping!

So Greens, you mean to tell me that you want to shut down an alternate energy source which is actively helping us act in a more enviromnetally responsible way? What's that? You want to replace it with another damn windfarm? Excellent, build it on the OTHER side of my house, that way I'll be deaf on that side too. Nevermind that entirely green energy sources- until someone invents nuclear fusion- will never make up the shortfall.

And then what, Greenie? Follow your anti-industry manifesto to its logical conclusion. Millions of Germans will lose their jobs. Evil engineers and craftsmen, every single one of them.
I'm sure Mother Earth will build you and your self-righteous self-serving kind a fucking car out of weeds, which we could all share in our Earth Commune or whatever. Only, it won't, and I'll make sure to punch you in the back of the head when we're in line in at a soup kitchen.

*twitch. Must calm down.*

2) Fine, nuclear power does go pear shaped from time to time. Fukushima, Chernobyl. Point made. Best argument actually

Only, you Green halfwits, Bavaria isn't on a goddamn fault line! Also, our government has incredibly low levels of corruption, and incredibly stringent, transparent processes, especially in regards to nuclear power and industry in general.

Also, don't compare our engineering to that jury-rigged disaster box in Pripyat.

*Seethe. Seethe. Done seething. Going to shout at the Green party official in town.*

Thoughts gents? On your own situation? Germany's a pretty complex place with its own issues. Nuclear power went bad in Japan because it was in a country on a fault line with really poor government oversight. It went bad in the Soviet Union, because in SOVIET RUSSIA, PLANT DOESNT POWER YOU, YOU POWER PLANT! (with your irradiated corpse)

Let the political flame wars commence

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

Fuuuuuuuuuu...

/sigh.

Nuclear power is more efficient, and, yes, more green than almost any other currently available technology. People oppose it out of knee-jerk ignorance.

 

[SckizoBoy]

SCHEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSE

Quite so. I read it in German and English, and then again in German, and got progressively more pissed off.

I just find it stupid that currently, Germany uses nuclear reactors to supply 23% of its energy requirements. How in hell are the federal government going to arrange to replace it all in 11 yrs. It's ridiculous how they're going to shut down all of them by 2022 (when a lot of them aren't even that old) just because Baden-Wurttemburg has a Green Ministerpraesidant!

And now I say that, I really wish he was green, just so as I could take the piss out of him more.

 

[Melon Hunter]

Misguided, knee-jerk politics, if you ask me. Just because one aging reactor with outdated failsafes sitting on a fault line was hit by an earthquake/tsunami combination that was far more powerful than the designers ever thought possible, it is now necessary to shut down all German nuclear reactors, despite the fact Germany is one of the most seismically stable countries around? Why they've decided to do this in the first place, let alone with an arbitrary deadline of 10 years is beyond me. How do the German government propose to replace 22% of the country's power output in that time without resorting to blackouts or non-renewable sources? In fact, it'll be more than that; electricity demand is certainly not going to remain the same for the next 10 years. I wonder if this would have been announced had the Chancellor's party not been doing so badly in the polls.

 

[newguy77]

Also, don't compare our engineering to that jury-rigged disaster box in Pripyat.

And I will never refer to it as Chernobyl again.

OT: Yeah, I hate the people who are attempting to fearmong the whole Japan Nuke Plants thing. No, properly built and maintained nuclear plants are not dangerous. These particular plants were hit by an earthquake and a tsunami, it doesn't take a structural engineer to know that something's probably going to go wrong.

 

[ryai458]

These people need to be told that nuclear power is cleaner and more efficient than coal, or "wind farms".

 

[Shock and Awe]

Its a shame, thankfully the US Green Party doesn't have that much influence, Clean Energy is a great goal, and Nuclear Power is actually something that works TOWARD that goal, not against it.

 

[Jupiter065]

While I think that the nuclear industry needs to change and we need to roll out some better technology (*cough* Thorium [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2vzotsvvkw] *cough*), shutting down existing power plants or halting new construction based on a completely irrelevant accident on the other side of the globe, which so far has caused and likely will cause 0.00 radiation related deaths, is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Makes you wonder how close the Green party is to the Russian coal/natural gas lobby, who are killing themselves laughing about this. Those dudes are gonna make some serious bank off this decision.

 

[Crazy_Bird]

Biggest problem is and always will be the storing of the radioactive waste.
The half-life of some stuff is several millennia.

Makes you wonder how close the Green party is to the Russian coal/natural gas lobby, who are killing themselves laughing about this. Those dudes are gonna make some serious bank off this decision.

Former chancellor of Germany and head of the green-social-democratic coalition before Merkel works now for and with Gazprom.
Any questions?

 

[Crazy_Bird]

sorry for the double post

 

[kayisking]

Biggest problem is and always will be the storing of the radioactive waste.
The half-life of some stuff is several millennia.

We could always, you know, shoot it into space. Would be interesting to see what happens, and like my great-grandfather used to say: "There's life out there, let's nuke it."

 

[RivFader86]

yep yep yep....abandoning nuclear power with no alternate source at the ready and yet.....http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/16/german-electric-car-aid/


EDIT: On second thought...who cares...we'll probably all die from EHEC anyway ;P

 

[Crazy_Bird]

We could always, you know, shoot it into space. Would be interesting to see what happens, and like my great-grandfather used to say: "There's life out there, let's nuke it."

Possible but the side effects are not easy to assess. Throwing it in the sun might be some of the best alternatives.


Yet my problem remains that we have to plan ahead for aeons basically.
I don't think the solution is that easy.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Ah, Greens are the same the world over, it would seem. A partial solution that exists is always going to rejected in favour of a perfect solution that doesn't.

 

[Ainsley Bartlett]

Personally I don't like the nuclear waste issue, The fact that it has to be buried for 100,000 years before it's safe is the main issue and there isn't really anywhere you can put it other than under ground. I don't feel that it's particularly safe. What if there's an earthquake near the storage site? It could potentially leak into the water table.

I also don't like that it's subsidised by the goverment yet the company that makes a profit by providing the electric it provides is a private entity. If it was govenment run and the profits went back into the infrastructure/improvements.

Then there is the weaponisation element. You can't really turn the wind into a weapon of mass destuction (though I wouldn't say that to anyone from New Oleans...)...

 

[Floppertje]

2) Fine, nuclear power does go pear shaped from time to time. Fukushima, Chernobyl. Point made. Best argument actually

Only, you Green halfwits, Bavaria isn't on a goddamn fault line! Also, our government has incredibly low levels of corruption, and incredibly stringent, transparent processes, especially in regards to nuclear power and industry in general.

Also, don't compare our engineering to that jury-rigged disaster box in Pripyat.

thank you so much for say that. I've been yelling that forever and nobody seems to listen. you try defending nuclear power when everyone you hang out with is a hippy (yes mom, I'm looking at you) or a geographer.

So we've got a ton of radioactive waste. do we need MORE encouragement to finally build that space elevator? if we just shoot it into the general direction of the alpha centauri system, it's not our problem anymore. let those non-existent aliens worry about it. (non existent in the alpha centauri system, I'm sure they're around somewhere else.)

 

[Wintermoot]

yeah that is pretty stupid also THEY NEVER DO THE FUCKING RESEARCH!!! Chernobyl happened because some scientists thought it was a good idea to turn of the fucking cooling system Fukushima happened under EXTREME conditions (earthquake+tsunami normally a reactor would go into a meltdown by the earthquake alone) if you happen to notice I,m PRO nuclear power it,s cheap and sustainable for a long time yes the waste IS a problem but we can always store it in a abandoned mine and seal it up (although it,s possible it would be excavated long after the people who put it there are gone posing again a danger) or dump it into a volcano (not sure WHAT will happen but at least we got rid of the waste) I,m NOT saying that we should abandon alternative solutions but for the time being wind power just isn't going to cut it (for the time being) (especially with a country like Germany)
the only true way we can "go green" is by killing ourself or live like the Amish (and I don,t think anybody is going to do that)
PS
if this paranoia is going to spread to my country (neighboring Germany) I,m out of here.
PPS
if I read it correctly they are only going to shutdown plant,s that don,t have up-to-date safety standards if what you say is true (the government of Germany having it,s head up it,s green ass) here is my prediction of the consequences:
Germany is either going to have allot of power failures making industry almost impossible (because of the high amounts of power required) forcing it,s economy to collapse and making it another country that is going to need a bailout.
or they are forced to buy NUCLEAR power from neighboring countries.
either way the rest of the EU is going to say "I told you so!" followed by epic lulz.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

Ah, Greens are the same the world over, it would seem. A partial solution that exists is always going to rejected in favour of a perfect solution that doesn't.

Gotta love the Nirvana fallacy. Oh wait, no we don't.

God people are idiots, what do you plan to do with the nuclear waste? Or the fuel rods? Bury them like we do now? Oh yeah, cause that shit that kills people CERTAINLY WON'T KILL THE FUCKING PLANET. People who AGREE that nuclear power is the way to go are fucking stupid. Why waste funds building something that produces more human killing debris, when we could come up with a power source that DOESN'T FUCKING KILL PEOPLE AND ISN'T USED TO MAKE BOMBS!

Speaking of Nirvana fallacy...