Obama's Eligibility

[qbert4ever]

Right so we don't have to know whether or not Bush actually served in the Air National Guard like he claimed but didn't, we don't need to know whether or not he had a wild past...etc.

See where I'm going with this? you can't have it both ways. There is no way that anybody could run for president if they weren't a natural born US Citizen. There just isn't. People would check when they announced their candidacy or their intent to run. He wouldn't have even gotten into the primaries.

For the first part, don't strawman. It's a pain in the ass and nobody likes it. Also, I take it you're taking a sarcastic tone with that remark, in which case you seem to be agreeing with me. I feel that we should be able to know if Bush served in the Air National Guard, etc. etc. And I kinda fail to see how wanting to know that is "having it both ways".

For the second part, if you want to believe that everything the government tells you is true, then go right on ahead. As for me, I've heard enough lies that I like to look past the face value of what these people are telling me.

But like I said before, I try not to go too crazy with this stuff. The only reason I care about this at all is that he's making a big deal out of something that should really just be no problem. Did I vote for him? No. But I didn't vote for McCain either, and I don't think he'll nuke everyone first chance he gets.

 

[asinann]

EDIT: I apologize for my tone in this but I'm just really fed up with the things said in this particular election. "He's a terrorist, he's a terrorist sympathizer, he's a muslim" lie after lie after lie, hence my belief that him not being a US Citizen is just another lie conjured up by petty pantywaists who just need to get the fuck over the fact they lost. John McCain manned up, why didn't they?

Don't bullshit your self... He is NOT a terrorist, he is jst incompetent and a non-US citizen (Can the United States of America that doesn't include Canada, please choose a name that isn't so ambigous?)
As a attempted conservitive I will do what liberals do and take things out of context... YOU JUST CALLED OBAMA A TERRORIST.

Can anyone understand a word of that?

 

[Yog Sothoth]

The thing is, you can't argue with nutjobs by answering their questions: they will just pretend you didn't answer them and continue to ask the question over and over again. I know--I'm currently repeating the same facts over and over to a troll in these forums that has decided that 'America is a majority rules country and only the legislature makes laws' no matter how much evidence I give to the contrary. That is the only reason this story still has legs--wack jobs possess a certain ability to not be troubled by facts that contradict the 'truth' they need to believe in.

prezactly! he's not giving in to these requests because they're ridiculous! imagine how busy he'd be if he responded to every attack on his character... he has to show that's he's above that sort of thing...

also, i noted that the OP said there was supposed to be some sort of press conference about this today.... i've not heard anything.....

 

[Sirisaxman]

To clarify: I do believe Obama was elected in full accordance to the law, but let's face it: he is the first black president of the USA - I can also understand why he would be a bit paranoid about this whole situation.
.

I disagree, William G Hardings was the 1st african american president. I am from Australia and even i know that.

Que? It doesn't count if you had a black great-grandfather or something, I think.

I suppose what your saying is just because I am 0.1%, italian that makes me un-italian?
I fail to see your point... (Let's not go off track)

Yes, actually, that's pretty much what I'm saying

 

[Chilango2]

so they are asking for the Original Printing?, not the Publicly stored one?

They have *seen* the original printing. People ask 'why hasn't he showed his birth certificate' but he *has*. Honestly, this entire thread is made of fail because of that.

More to the point, think about this for one second. Let's ignore his mom is a USC, let go back to the birth certificate, which is publically availble, has been publicly *shown* etc etc, and so on.

I mean, sure, the 'government can lie to you' but really, all records everywhere agree to this, all the stories match, his mothers presence in Hawaii, and her inability to travel to Kenya or anywhere else is well known. This entire thread is made of vague gestures and questions about questions that have already been asked and answered, claims that Obama hasn't done things (show his birth certificate) that he has.

And honestly, the birth certificate was originally made some 40 years ago *when Obama was born*. Basically, you're being asked to believe that Obama's mother falsified a Hawaii Birth Certificate 40 some years ago so her child could be eligible to run for president.

This is tin foil hat territory, and there's a good reason why anybody who gets to insistent on it *is* treated like their a loony, a racist, or both. If it mattered that much to anyone, there are *easy ways to find out your wrong*. Many of them.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

The people who keep asking for Obama's birth certificate (or "proof" that Obama's birth certificate isn't fake, if they've been sufficiently aware of world events to know that it has been presented already) are the same types who think that the Moon landings were done on a sound stage. The best response is to point, laugh, and walk on; reasoned argument doesn't work on those who have abandoned reason.

-- Steve

 

[qbert4ever]

The people who keep asking for Obama's birth certificate (or "proof" that Obama's birth certificate isn't fake, if they've been sufficiently aware of world events to know that it has been presented already) are the same types who think that the Moon landings were done on a sound stage. The best response is to point, laugh, and walk on; reasoned argument doesn't work on those who have abandoned reason.

-- Steve

Really? I don't think the moon landing was faked. And I gotta say, if an obviously computer-generated certificate with the numbers blacked out so that nobody can check if it is representative of the real thing or not is enough for you to go on, then I'm just gonna point and laugh right back. I'm not saying it's a big deal, that his Mom messed around with it 40 years ago, or that he should be declared a traitor and deported. All I'm saying is that it's more then obvious that somebody in a higher position of power wants him in office, for one reason or another.

But, then again, it's not like this shit hasn't been going on for years already. I just do what I always do: shrug, say "hmm, wonder what's going on with that?" and move on.

 

[fat american]

You see what you get when you vote for somebody because of their charisma and charm!? Also a lot of people voted for him just becuase he's black. No other reason. Which is bullshit.

 

[Chilango2]

Really? I don't think the moon landing was faked. And I gotta say, if an obviously computer-generated certificate with the numbers blacked out so that nobody can check if it is representative of the real thing or not is enough for you to go on, then I'm just gonna point and laugh right back. I'm not saying it's a big deal, that his Mom messed around with it 40 years ago, or that he should be declared a traitor and deported. All I'm saying is that it's more then obvious that somebody in a higher position of power wants him in office, for one reason or another.

Higher position of power than *the president*? Who, exactly, would this be? Go on, give me your theory. Who did this, and why?

More to the point, the online version you've seen *isn't* the main version, without seeing what you looked at can't even confirm if it's the actual publicly registered original birth certificate. Needless to say, alot of people have spent alot of time looking at this, and no one has been able to prove anything other than what is in the public record.

There are records and witnesses to Obama's mother's presence in Hawaii. There is no evidence of her being anywhere else. There is the actual original birth certificate, which has been looked at thousands of times by now, and determined to be authentic.

Your basically saying a conspiracy was created forty years ago, has been undiscovered despite alot of investigation, and has succeeded in putting all sorts of records of the existence and early life of Barack Obama in Hawaii.

Yes, I am afraid that *is* crazy.

You see what you get when you vote for somebody because of their charisma and charm!? Also a lot of people voted for him just becuase he's black. No other reason. Which is bullshit.

Yes but luckily in America the entire voting nation is just the popular vote and those votes don't go to whom is actually named president, as evidenced by the fact that he was named president long before the popular vote was fully counted. So, all those morons who voted for him simply because he was black, wasted their vote anyhow. Whoo!

Prove with statistics or polling that most people voted for him because he was black.

To Necro. I'm not sure if your being sarcastic, but to treat the comment seriously:

He was 'called' president by the media after they determined he had enough votes in the electoral college based on polling models, early vote counts, demographics, and a multitude of statsical methods. The vote count in every state are now official and fully tabulated, so we would know if anything was different from what the media called it. One good thing was that they were very careful this year with 'calling' states for either candidate.

In any case, the networks 'calling' someone the winner of a presidential election has been occuring pretty much for as long as there *have* been televised elections, this is not new.

 

[qbert4ever]

Really? I don't think the moon landing was faked. And I gotta say, if an obviously computer-generated certificate with the numbers blacked out so that nobody can check if it is representative of the real thing or not is enough for you to go on, then I'm just gonna point and laugh right back. I'm not saying it's a big deal, that his Mom messed around with it 40 years ago, or that he should be declared a traitor and deported. All I'm saying is that it's more then obvious that somebody in a higher position of power wants him in office, for one reason or another.

Higher position of power than *the president*? Who, exactly, would this be? Go on, give me your theory. Who did this, and why?

More to the point, the online version you've seen *isn't* the main version, without seeing what you looked at can't even confirm if it's the actual publicly registered original birth certificate. Needless to say, alot of people have spent alot of time looking at this, and no one has been able to prove anything other than what is in the public record.

There are records and witnesses to Obama's mother's presence in Hawaii. There is no evidence of her being anywhere else. There is the actual original birth certificate, which has been looked at thousands of times by now, and determined to be authentic.

Your basically saying a conspiracy was created forty years ago, has been undiscovered despite alot of investigation, and has succeeded in putting all sorts of records of the existence and early life of Barack Obama in Hawaii.

Yes, I am afraid that *is* crazy.

1) Ever hear of the Federal Bank Reserve? Do some research on them and it's plain as day that they have the country by the gonads.

2) If the one that was posted isn't the "main version", what is? A link or picture would be nice. You give me one that isn't blacked out or computer generated, and I'll take it as proof. As for the "thousands" that have seen the original, who are they? Got any names?

3) Why would his mother have to be involved? All he or anyone else would have to do is wipe the records and pay off a few people, say, 4 years ago or so, and bam. Done deal.

You seem to be very willing to decry anybody that questions the status quo as "crazy", and yet you have offered no proof to your claims. If there really is no problem, and Obama has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt (as you claim) that he was born a US citizen, then it should be no problem for you to back it up. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but you need to do something other then jump on the "anybody that thinks the government has, or ever would lie to us is CRAZY!" bandwagon.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

You seem to be very willing to decry anybody that questions the status quo as "crazy", and yet you have offered no proof to your claims. If there really is no problem, and Obama has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt (as you claim) that he was born a US citizen, then it should be no problem for you to back it up. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but you need to do something other then jump on the "anybody that thinks the government has, or ever would lie to us is CRAZY!" bandwagon.

Let me put it this way:

It seems to me that you are a Communist infiltrator attempting to sabotage America by sowing misinformation about and distrust in American institutions. (As a side benefit, you wish to see particulars of Obama's identification papers in order to subvert his identity and hack his PayPal account.) You ask these questions only to undermine democracy and bring about a people's revolution. (And score some phat lewt from the goldfarmers.)

Prove me wrong, if you have nothing to hide.

...

My point is this; the burden of proof is upon the claimant. People claiming that Obama is ineligible (despite his going through the same vetting process that all other candidates did) or that the documents presented are false are the ones who need to back up these claims with evidence... otherwise, Obama (or you, or anyone else for that matter) would be so busy "proving" his innocence that he wouldn't be able to accomplish anything.

It's a foundation stone of logic, and a core concept in justice worldwide (including the US); it's the person making the accusation who has to make the case.

-- Steve

 

[Chilango2]

1) Ever hear of the Federal Bank Reserve? Do some research on them and it's plain as day that they have the country by the gonads.

2) If the one that was posted isn't the "main version", what is? A link or picture would be nice. You give me one that isn't blacked out or computer generated, and I'll take it as proof. As for the "thousands" that have seen the original, who are they? Got any names?

3) Why would his mother have to be involved? All he or anyone else would have to do is wipe the records and pay off a few people, say, 4 years ago or so, and bam. Done deal.

You seem to be very willing to decry anybody that questions the status quo as "crazy", and yet you have offered no proof to your claims. If there really is no problem, and Obama has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt (as you claim) that he was born a US citizen, then it should be no problem for you to back it up. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but you need to do something other then jump on the "anybody that thinks the government has, or ever would lie to us is CRAZY!" bandwagon.

I found this with five seconds worth of googling. You could have too, since it seems to concern you so very, very deeply. You tell *me* if you trust them:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

I never really doubted that something a simple to check would be lied about, so I hadn't previously googled it, and asked where the version people were reffering to was. I still have no answer to that question, although I don't expect to get it.

Okay, so let me review your theory. You believe Ben Bernanke, the head of the Federal Reserve appointed by George W. Bush, has cast out his feelers throughout the media and elsewhere to disguise that Obama is not a citizen and make him president. Why? What possible motive could he have to do this? What evidence do you have that the Fed us using its regulatory power over banks to do this?

"3) Why would his mother have to be involved? All he or anyone else would have to do is wipe the records and pay off a few people, say, 4 years ago or so, and bam. Done deal."

Let me again mention that it doesn't actually *matter* where he was born, since his mother is a us citizen, if he was born abroad, he would *also* be a natural born US citizen. Unless you believe he's lying about who his mother is...and that the various photos of her wth him as a child are lies, or something...Yeah, the sheer scope of the work, lies, and conspiracy necessary to make one man eligible to *run* for an elected office, when two years ago his beating Hillary Clinton was seen as extremely unlikely...

Let's also take a step back here and look at why I say this is 'crazy'.

Conspiriciy theories are deemed to be loony when multiple pieces of evidence are presented that prove the 'theory' wrong and the believers then determine the evidence has been falsified in some way. The basic problem with these claims is that falsfying evidence is no simple matter. In this instiance, it would require, at minimum:
1) Bribing a Hawaii Public Records official to create the fake birth certificate.
2) Bribing them to also make a public statement that the certificate is real.
3) Bribe any assistants or other personel at that office that may be privy to the record being falsified.
4) Bribe the official in the country where he was 'really' born to destroy not jsut the document, but *all* evidence of the documents *existince*. Certificates tend to have unique ID numbers, if a number were missing in the public records, it would be noticable on a careful search.
5) Destroy all evidence of Obama's early life in 'country X'
6) Create false evidence, including photographs, of his life in Hawaii.
7) Hide adoption records, since if he was born to the woman who claims to be his mother, he would be a US citizen regardless of *where* he was born.

Any mistake on any of these points would mean failure, and would be discovered. This would take money, and several people in multiple countries. You would have to convince people to lie in interviews.

Basically, the idea that this is the case does not stand up to even the slightest bit of logical or rational scrutiny. It's a very *simple* thing to be caught doing.

Note that actual 'shadowy government conspiricies' *have* been discovered and revealed by the media, such as Watergate, Abu Ghraib, etc. Why has the media failed this time? (don't claim it's because they are 'liberal', there's Fox News, for one)

And this is why believing it gets calls of 'you are crazy' because believing in shadow government conspiracies that are powerful enough to actually *do* what would logically be required to pull this off are simply improbable beyond belief.

Furthermore, as I demonstrated at the very beginning of this too long post, you can find multiple places to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the birth certificate is authentic. Therefore, anyone who actually cares and has *not* done the minimum research that I did (five seconds on google) is not arguing in good faith, cannot be convinced by rational or reasonable evidence, or both.

 

[Najos]

Let me again mention that it doesn't actually *matter* where he was born, since his mother is a us citizen, if he was born abroad, he would *also* be a natural born US citizen. Unless you believe he's lying about who his mother is...and that the various photos of her wth him as a child are lies, or something...Yeah, the sheer scope of the work, lies, and conspiracy necessary to make one man eligible to *run* for an elected office, when two years ago his beating Hillary Clinton was seen as extremely unlikely...

It is only halftime, so I don't have a lot of time to get back into this, but I did want to point this out. I'm almost positive that BOTH parents have to be USCs for someone born abroad to be considered a natural born USC. I could be wrong, though. I'm pretty sure it was brought up earlier in this thread as well.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

It actually freaks me out a little. I mean, I had to have a background check just to bartend on an Airforce base. When I was doing some work for the Army (active duty) they actually had to check me out one generation back. I mean, they knew everything about me. It freaks me out to think the President didn't have to provide proof that he was born here.

Would you want the investigator showing all of the background information she collected about you to random strangers without a need to know, though?

-- Alex

If that person is going to have a hand in running my life, most likely.

 

[Nomad]

I suppose what your saying is just because I am 0.1%, italian that makes me un-italian?
I fail to see your point... (Let's not go off track)

According to your logic, that makes us all ultimately Africans. Because if I'm not mistaken, Africa is where the first humans evolved and emigrated from. Meaning we all have african blood following your logic. So in that case, the first "african american" US president would be George Washington?

 

[Nomad]

Actually there is no universally agreed upon origin of the humans from the scientific community save that we came from apes.

Fair enough. I just remember hearing the first humans evolved down there. Just checked wikipedia (realizing it isn't the most reliable source) which at least states it's the "dominant theory". My point stands, though, that according to his logic we all have the same descent in the end, rendering his other arguments void.

 

[qbert4ever]

Let me put it this way:

It seems to me that you are a Communist infiltrator attempting to sabotage America by sowing misinformation about and distrust in American institutions. (As a side benefit, you wish to see particulars of Obama's identification papers in order to subvert his identity and hack his PayPal account.) You ask these questions only to undermine democracy and bring about a people's revolution. (And score some phat lewt from the goldfarmers.)

Prove me wrong, if you have nothing to hide.

...

Christ, this is going to be a long one. Okay, look. There is a key difference between going to great lengths to prove yourself against a McCarthyism question (which I believe yours is, I could be wrong though), and spending one minute of your time holding a piece a paper up in front of a camera in order to put to rest the minds of, let's be honest here, quite a few people who have no way of knowing if the (as stated before) obviously computer made one is representative of the real thing. When the only ones that have any way of telling if something is real or not are the same ones that put it up in the first place, all I can picture is some sleazy guy selling "real" Rolex watches out of his trenchcoat.

Granted, there is such thing as taking it too far. If I was to give a starving kid a full dinner and a warm blanket, and he were to ask for, say, a king sized bed, nobody would hold it against me if I were to say no. If, however, I were to instead give the same starving kid half a cookie to live on, then when he asks for more I scoff and say "pssh, it's just never enough, is it?" People would think me the biggest dick in the land. That's exactly what I see going on here, we're getting plenty to nibble on, but nothing really substantial.

I've always liked the saying "if you have nothing to hide, then hide nothing". If I were running for any position of office, and the only way you could convince yourself that I wasn't a dirty commie was if I put up a photo of my real birth certificate, why wouldn't I? I have nothing to lose, it would take almost none of my time, and your mind is put to rest no problem.

Like I said before, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I don't ware a tin-foil hat, I don't think the moon-landing was faked, the only plot behind 911 was the one between a few guys that thought it would be fun to fly into a building, and most of the claims against Obama are pants-on-head retarded. But I don't like it when people shit in my champagne glass and call it chardonnay, and I find it very hard to ignore a 800 pound gorilla if he's sitting in my chair. I don't really doubt that he wasn't born here, and I don't care if he wasn't. The only thing that concerns me is the fact that he's turning it into such an issue.

All I'm saying is, all I've been saying is, if you were just elected, and there was a coherent question that popped up about your eligibility that if left ignored would keep growing, but could be dismissed very easily, accurately, and quickly, would you take the minute out of your time to put it down?

I know I would.

 

[Chilango2]

All I'm saying is, all I've been saying is, if you were just elected, and there was a coherent question that popped up about your eligibility that if left ignored would keep growing, but could be dismissed very easily, accurately, and quickly, would you take the minute out of your time to put it down?

I know I would.

And he HAS taken that minute.

It's just that people don't take two seconds worth of time on google to actually *see* the answer that has been given. I mean, he's presented the certificate to the media. He's made a copy of it availble online. He's had people from the hospital make statements before the media.

What MORE could he do?

 

[Sirisaxman]

Let me again mention that it doesn't actually *matter* where he was born, since his mother is a us citizen, if he was born abroad, he would *also* be a natural born US citizen. Unless you believe he's lying about who his mother is...and that the various photos of her wth him as a child are lies, or something...Yeah, the sheer scope of the work, lies, and conspiracy necessary to make one man eligible to *run* for an elected office, when two years ago his beating Hillary Clinton was seen as extremely unlikely...

It is only halftime, so I don't have a lot of time to get back into this, but I did want to point this out. I'm almost positive that BOTH parents have to be USCs for someone born abroad to be considered a natural born USC. I could be wrong, though. I'm pretty sure it was brought up earlier in this thread as well.

I was born abroad with my mom as a USC, my dad as a Swedish one and I've been a USC since the day I was born. Hope that clarifies things.

 

[haveyouseen_mywallet]

mccain was born in panama(near that area) and no one made a big deal of that. obama produces a birth certificate months ago and people still complain. the man is president, i believe he will make a decent/good president. how can he make it worse than the guy we have now. he took billions in surplus from the last guy and turned it into trillions of debt. so people need to get over this whole fear thing of obama. the guy campaigned for over 20 months and no legitimate bad info came out about the guy and they were digging as hard as they could. come down off your cross take the wood build a bridge and get over it all ready.