Obesity Discrimination

[ninjaRiv]

I'd also like to add that bullying is fucked up no matter what. At the end of the day you're making people want to die. Some people eat for comfort, you know that? They can start off skinny and be bullied for something else, turn to food and get bullied more. It's not always a fucking choice.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Although, some people do bring it on themselves. There are people who can afford special work out equipment, healthy food and all that stuff but they don't because they like fatty foods. But, even so, bullying isn't nice.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Also, I walk everywhere. EVERYWHERE! Can't afford a bus and can't drive. Don't eat much, can't afford it (see how that whole "I can't afford it" thing works both ways?). I'm healthier than some skinny people. Still fat, though. Well, fuck! Looks like it's not all about eating expensive food and exercising.

And... what's your daily intake in kcal if I may ask?

I don't know... I don't count lol. I don't gobble down chocolate and crisps, though.

 

[Spineyguy]

Oh, I wasn't implying that he was actively job-hunting. What I meant was that if he were, there are some businesses at which those wouldn't necessarily be a point against him. But they're few and far between.

He could sit in a tattooists' window as a warning to all. Great thing about that is that when he dies (probably in some sort of magnet-related incident) he can be stuffed and will continue his work but for marginally less pay.

What I meant was that a few people have suggested that if someone makes snide remarks about you in public, you should make a "go fuck yourself" gesture in response. Which, to me, seems like a better way to get into a fight than anything else, but whatever.

If someone is incapable of being intelligent and civilised toward you, you should be intelligent and civilised back to them but in such a way that proves the superiority of being intelligent and civilised. At worst they won't know how to respond, at best they will think about what they say in future.

...and it seems like fat threads are nearly as volatile as gender threads, which is saying something. People really seem to like walking through life flinging stereotypes in every which direction.

Between this and the boobs thread the escapist has been in danger of becoming a full-time occupation. Though to be honest I think you and I have kept this one going between us.

 

[Dascylus]

There's a larger lady and then there's FAT...

Fat chicks are ugly piggish gluttons... Their size is an indication of a personality that doesn't know when to stop... They're the ones that if you were eating in front of them their eyes would follow the food to your mouth like a dog watching a tennis ball.

Larger ladies just have a bigger build...

I say ladies but the same is true of men aswell.

ITT: if you are above some arbitrarily-designated size limit, the fact that I find you repulsive is reason enough for me to pass judgment on your character and consider you somewhat subhuman. Especially if you're female.

I think you have misunderstood me... So let me tell you a story.
I knew a guy, 2 meters tall and built like the cave troll from lord of the rings... He would constantly complain about how he was lonely and how he couldn't get a girl because they weren't interested in him because of his weight.
I suggested he should start with small steps instead of big gestures and that he should eat more vegetables and skip taking the 10 minute bus ride to work in the morning in favor of the 20 minute walk (It was a beautiful summer after all).
He continued to take the bus and as an indicator of his diet I offer this short tale...
I came home one day to see him having just polished off a family sized pizza.
"Damn" I said, "if I'd come home earlier I could have ordered one too"
"No problem" He replied as he reached for the phone "I was gonna order another anyway"

That is my definition of fat...

By contrast...
I knew a guy who in his younger days was a professional weightlifter, due to injury he was forced to spend alot of time either sitting or on crutches.
His body reacted as you may imagine and his weight went up. Not drastically, he ate well and walked when he could, but he still got quite big.

Do you see the difference? There is fat and there is big.
Big is ok, fat is ugly. There is no predefined weight limit. It's about the attitude and reasons.
I like fat being a negative term, it's a great way of shaming the gluttonous pigs.
The next time you walk past a McDonalds and you see the fat lady with her fat husband feeding fries and milkshakes to their soon to be fat kids you will understand my view of the definition.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I'd also like to add that bullying is fucked up no matter what. At the end of the day you're making people want to die. Some people eat for comfort, you know that? They can start off skinny and be bullied for something else, turn to food and get bullied more. It's not always a fucking choice.

Hear to the freakin' hear.

Then again, I'm sure this is common knowledge already. Bullies get a perverse thrill out of fucking people up. It gives them a spurious feeling of power.

He could sit in a tattooists' window as a warning to all. Great thing about that is that when he dies (probably in some sort of magnet-related incident) he can be stuffed and will continue his work but for marginally less pay.

I'm sure I'm evil for it, but I giggled.

If someone is incapable of being intelligent and civilised toward you, you should be intelligent and civilised back to them but in such a way that proves the superiority of being intelligent and civilised. At worst they won't know how to respond, at best they will think about what they say in future.

In theory, sure. In practice, if someone starts spewing abuse at you in public, it's easy enough to get taken aback. (Or if it's some douche zipping past in a car.)

Between this and the boobs thread the escapist has been in danger of becoming a full-time occupation. Though to be honest I think you and I have kept this one going between us.

More or less.

I think you have misunderstood me...

I somehow doubt it, but go ahead.

So let me tell you a story.
I knew a guy, 2 meters tall and built like the cave troll from lord of the rings... He would constantly complain about how he was lonely and how he couldn't get a girl because they weren't interested in him because of his weight.
I suggested he should start with small steps instead of big gestures and that he should eat more vegetables and skip taking the 10 minute bus ride to work in the morning in favor of the 20 minute walk (It was a beautiful summer after all).
He continued to take the bus and as an indicator of his diet I offer this short tale...
I came home one day to see him having just polished off a family sized pizza.
"Damn" I said, "if I'd come home earlier I could have ordered one too"
"No problem" He replied as he reached for the phone "I was gonna order another anyway"

That is my definition of fat...

By contrast...
I knew a guy who in his younger days was a professional weightlifter, due to injury he was forced to spend alot of time either sitting or on crutches.
His body reacted as you may imagine and his weight went up. Not drastically, he ate well and walked when he could, but he still got quite big.

Do you see the difference? There is fat and there is big.
Big is ok, fat is ugly. There is no predefined weight limit. It's about the attitude and reasons.
I like fat being a negative term, it's a great way of shaming the gluttonous pigs.

The truth of the matter is that you don't find all fat people repulsive and worthy of dehumanizing language (i.e. "gluttonous pigs"); just those who fit the stereotype of what the media wants us to think everyone with a BMI over 25 is like. But somehow, the only way you can reconcile that with yourself is by using an ambiguous euphemism to pretend that they're not fat, and by redefining "fat" specifically to mean the people whom you find repulsive.

Yes, there are some people who are too damn fat for their own individual physiology (although there's some degree of evidence it's symptomatic more often than not). But you're not accomplishing anything by sneering at those individuals and using euphemisms on everyone else who's fat. It just comes off as condescending towards the first group and dishonest about the second.

The irony of it is that the clinical terms are a lot more disparaging than "fat" to begin with. Inherently so, even, seeing as they add up to calling someone either misshapen or...well, gluttonous. (And I don't even know why I'm giving you ammo, considering that you're the sort of person who not only thinks body-shaming is okay, but actually brags about it.)

The next time you walk past a McDonalds and you see the fat lady with her fat husband feeding fries and milkshakes to their soon to be fat kids you will understand my view of the definition.

Ummm...I live in the States. You know, the country that's often stereotyped (even internally) as all fitting that description, while simultaneously being the fat-panic capital of the world?

 

[5ilver]

I'm a little saddened by the amount of posters who seem to think being fat is a choice. Spoiler: It's not. You end up fat or thin because of people and circumstances around you.

If it was a choice, not a SINGLE person would choose to be fat, this I guarantee.


As far as lazyness: there's no such thing. You either get the motivation and help needed and change or don't and don't.

 

[Spineyguy]

He could sit in a tattooists' window as a warning to all. Great thing about that is that when he dies (probably in some sort of magnet-related incident) he can be stuffed and will continue his work but for marginally less pay.

I'm sure I'm evil for it, but I giggled.

Laughing at the suffering of others is one of the finest pleasures in life, even if it's only hypothetical.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I'm a little saddened by the amount of posters who seem to think being fat is a choice. Spoiler: It's not. You end up fat or thin because of people and circumstances around you.

A bit of an oversimplification. Mostly true nonetheless.

If it was a choice, not a SINGLE person would choose to be fat, this I guarantee.

Oh, you'd be amazed at what you can find on the Internet.

As far as lazyness: there's no such thing. You either get the motivation and help needed and change or don't and don't.

No, there's such a thing as laziness (see: certain people born into money). It's just that automatically conflating fat (or...well, pretty much any given physical trait, as opposed to ailment or hygiene issue) with laziness is messed up.

Laughing at the suffering of others is one of the finest pleasures in life, even if it's only hypothetical.

Hence, the existence of slapstick.

 

[ninjaRiv]

I don't know... I don't count lol. I don't gobble down chocolate and crisps, though.

Then I can still pretty much ensure you that if you're overweight, you're structurally overeating. Weight doesn't drop out of thin air, and even heavy medication infamous for weight gain has an effect of 10-20% tops.

You end up fat or thin because of people and circumstances around you.

So, exactly like some were saying: being fat is a choice. People and circumstances can be ignored. Only exception being young children being made fat by their parents.

Man, you ignored every other point I made.

 

[Dascylus]

I'd also like to add that bullying is fucked up no matter what. At the end of the day you're making people want to die. Some people eat for comfort, you know that? They can start off skinny and be bullied for something else, turn to food and get bullied more. It's not always a fucking choice.

Hear to the freakin' hear.

Then again, I'm sure this is common knowledge already. Bullies get a perverse thrill out of fucking people up. It gives them a spurious feeling of power.

He could sit in a tattooists' window as a warning to all. Great thing about that is that when he dies (probably in some sort of magnet-related incident) he can be stuffed and will continue his work but for marginally less pay.

I'm sure I'm evil for it, but I giggled.

If someone is incapable of being intelligent and civilised toward you, you should be intelligent and civilised back to them but in such a way that proves the superiority of being intelligent and civilised. At worst they won't know how to respond, at best they will think about what they say in future.

In theory, sure. In practice, if someone starts spewing abuse at you in public, it's easy enough to get taken aback. (Or if it's some douche zipping past in a car.)

Between this and the boobs thread the escapist has been in danger of becoming a full-time occupation. Though to be honest I think you and I have kept this one going between us.

More or less.

I think you have misunderstood me...

I somehow doubt it, but go ahead.

So let me tell you a story.
I knew a guy, 2 meters tall and built like the cave troll from lord of the rings... He would constantly complain about how he was lonely and how he couldn't get a girl because they weren't interested in him because of his weight.
I suggested he should start with small steps instead of big gestures and that he should eat more vegetables and skip taking the 10 minute bus ride to work in the morning in favor of the 20 minute walk (It was a beautiful summer after all).
He continued to take the bus and as an indicator of his diet I offer this short tale...
I came home one day to see him having just polished off a family sized pizza.
"Damn" I said, "if I'd come home earlier I could have ordered one too"
"No problem" He replied as he reached for the phone "I was gonna order another anyway"

That is my definition of fat...

By contrast...
I knew a guy who in his younger days was a professional weightlifter, due to injury he was forced to spend alot of time either sitting or on crutches.
His body reacted as you may imagine and his weight went up. Not drastically, he ate well and walked when he could, but he still got quite big.

Do you see the difference? There is fat and there is big.
Big is ok, fat is ugly. There is no predefined weight limit. It's about the attitude and reasons.
I like fat being a negative term, it's a great way of shaming the gluttonous pigs.

The truth of the matter is that you don't find all fat people repulsive and worthy of dehumanizing language (i.e. "gluttonous pigs"); just those who fit the stereotype of what the media wants us to think everyone with a BMI over 25 is like. But somehow, the only way you can reconcile that with yourself is by using an ambiguous euphemism to pretend that they're not fat, and by redefining "fat" specifically to mean the people whom you find repulsive.

Yes, there are some people who are too damn fat for their own individual physiology (although there's some degree of evidence it's symptomatic more often than not). But you're not accomplishing anything by sneering at those individuals and using euphemisms on everyone else who's fat. It just comes off as condescending towards the first group and dishonest about the second.

The irony of it is that the clinical terms are a lot more disparaging than "fat" to begin with. Inherently so, even, seeing as they add up to calling someone either misshapen or...well, gluttonous. (And I don't even know why I'm giving you ammo, considering that you're the sort of person who not only thinks body-shaming is okay, but actually brags about it.)

The next time you walk past a McDonalds and you see the fat lady with her fat husband feeding fries and milkshakes to their soon to be fat kids you will understand my view of the definition.

Ummm...I live in the States. You know, the country that's often stereotyped (even internally) as all fitting that description, while simultaneously being the fat-panic capital of the world?

BMI is bullshit... And the US may spawn the stereotype but if you ignore the internet and look at the real world you will see it all around. I don't base my judgements by what I read but by the whales that herd themselves towards heart disease and an early grave.

I get some crap here and there for my opinions on things but my life is not spent pussying around and avoiding calling things as they appear...
Here's a new example... Diabetes, can often cause weight gain that leads to further complications. With correct diet management the need for insulin can be delayed by a great many years. Do you know the reason most patients return to the doctors needing a change in the dosage of their medication? They refuse to change their diet.
"Aha" you say "Getting all judgemental on the medically ill"
Yeah, watch a diabetics family fall about in tears with each new visit to the hospital because he had to have his friday night beer and kebab. It's more common than you think.

Everyone has the right to live their life as they wish, I will quietly hate you and say nothing.
But these people don't live in bubbles. They pass on their habits to their children.
Would you walk idly past a woman holding her baby in one arm and a cigarette in the other? It's ok, most would. But isn't that something we should change?
Shouldn't it be ok to show them that silence is not approval.

But I fear we will go round in circles with differing opinions on this one. Feel free to reply, I look forward to hearing your opinion, but this will be my final word (I think, let's see if I can resist).

 

[ninjaRiv]

Man, you ignored every other point I made.

In other posts you said you didn't eat much and walk everywhere. Well, like I said, weight doesn't drop out of thin air. What you may consider little, may be much more than you think. Or it may contain a lot of calories. That's why I asked what you eat in a day in kcal value; there may be more in your food than you think. Outside of that, there's not much to adress.

If reduced to its simplest way possible, a person's weight is just maths.

If:
Kcal intake > kcal used up = gain weight
Kcal intake < kcal used up = lose weight

The only way to lose weight is to use up more than you eat, and it's wise not to try and achieve it through large or radical diet changes because those aren't really effective.

I'm ussually well above the advised 2500 kcal a day, sometimes topping around 3500, which is typically the calorie intake of an obese person. Yet I'm perfectly in the middle of the BMI scale because I do a lot of sports. Twice a week I have at it with kickboxing for 1-2 hours and that's really intense. 2-3 times a week I run myself through an excersize routine with some weights and 20-25 minutes of running including speeding up and slowing down in close succesion. Outside of that I cycle pretty much everywhere I need to be and I imagine studying also accounts for using up a lot of energy.

So you see that despite overeating compared to the average stats, I'm holding my weight exactly where it needs to be. For a match I drop to 81,5 from the usual 83-84 and that ussually comes down to laying off most of the candy for a week or two.

Likewise, just walking a few short distances is likely not enough to get rid of enough energy in your case. Consider taking up a more intense activity. Running costs nothing, neither do situps or pushups. If you don't want to alter your daily routine at all it even helps to just carry some weight around. Backpack and a few books, and the same hike just got a lot more energy-consuming. The possibilities are endless. Although there's no point in that unless it's done structurally. Pick a point in the day for excersize, even if a little, and stick to that. It takes a little discipline.

What are you, a health club ad? I get the whole thing where my food has more kcal than I think. Fair enough, good point. But when I said you missed every other point, I meant you missed every other post I made; about bullying, it not being as simple as "taking a run," the expense of healthy food, etc.

And I do exercise. An hours walk for work with a backpack full of shit. Not literal shit, you understand.

Don't get me wrong, though. I think it's great that you've taken the time to explain all that

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

BMI is bullshit... And the US may spawn the stereotype but if you ignore the internet and look at the real world you will see it all around. I don't base my judgements by what I read but by the whales that herd themselves towards heart disease and an early grave.

At least you acknowledge that BMI (even if modern medicine desperately clings to it) is bullshit.

But again with the dehumanizing language. Fat people are not "whales."

I get some crap here and there for my opinions on things but my life is not spent pussying around and avoiding calling things as they appear...

Ummm...as long as you're euphemistically describing fat people whom you don't find repulsive as "just big," you're really in no position to talk about calling it as you see it.

Here's a new example... Diabetes, can often cause weight gain that leads to further complications. With correct diet management the need for insulin can be delayed by a great many years. Do you know the reason most patients return to the doctors needing a change in the dosage of their medication? They refuse to change their diet.
"Aha" you say "Getting all judgemental on the medically ill"
Yeah, watch a diabetics family fall about in tears with each new visit to the hospital because he had to have his friday night beer and kebab. It's more common than you think.

At least you acknowledge that type 2 diabetes causes weight gain.

But did you seriously imply that eating grilled meat once a week is going to exacerbate matters? They usually suggest cutting down on refined sugars/starches (which are in just about everything, for the record), not protein. (You might have an argument in regards to beer--if it's the cheap shit, or one drinks like a fucking fish, anyway.)

Everyone has the right to live their life as they wish, I will quietly hate you and say nothing.

...wow. "Hating" people for what's honestly no concern of yours, really?

But these people don't live in bubbles. They pass on their habits to their children.
Would you walk idly past a woman holding her baby in one arm and a cigarette in the other? It's ok, most would. But isn't that something we should change?
Shouldn't it be ok to show them that silence is not approval.

And you still don't accomplish anything by bullying people (i.e. calling them "whales" and "pigs" and so on). Nor do you prove anything--except, of course, that you think whatever personal gratification you get out of being inconsiderate is more important than common decency.

 

[Dascylus]

So I saw an overweight woman the other day, in her 40s and on one of those motorised trikes. She was taking the tram and as it came in she used her obnoxious size (with vehicle) to shove herself ahead of all others and making it difficult for people to get off and ensure that she would be ahead of the two mothers with prams who would otherwise take her place. In her fron basket was a Mcdonalds meal bag (from which she later munched happily away on).
When I suggested that she should back up and let people off she said "Men jag ska på, jag är ju handikappad" (But I'm supposed to get on here, I'm handicapped).
After she was on she placed her trike so it prevented any more than one of the mothers from being able to put their pram on.
Irritated by her behaviour I suggested that she move to accomodate the other mother she replied with... "Men sluta nu, jag ska va här, jag är handikappad sa jag" (Come on now, I'm supposed to be here. I just said I'm handicapped)
As we rode the few short stops I took the opportunity to point out that her handicap was clearly connected to her weight and munching away on fast food wouldn't help her. And that she could at least be considerate to the problems she presents to others.
I remained polite in my language if not in my tone...

So, fellow Escapists, do you think we as a society should tolerate that type of burden? Was I wrong to be irritated? Was I wrong to take my stand?

Maybe I am wrong but it sure doesn't feel like it.

 

[TheLizardKing]

I'm not fat i'm just big boned

OT: I'm horribly overweight and i hate it, but it's my own fault because i have no self discipline. I don't eat Mcdonalds or KFC every day but i do eat alot of Chips and drink alot of Soda and rarely exercise.

I don't expect people to give me sympathy, In fact a little tough love may just be what i need.

Thanks guys this thread has been very inspirational.