Obesity Discrimination

[Sonicron]

WORDS!:

At one point I was 100lbs overweight - clearly in the 'obese' category. I have lost 73lbs so far. I am still trying to lose the rest, but it's slow-goings during the last leg of the journey. I may get there, I may not; but I wont stop trying. I had a hard time moving around, walking down the street was winding; as embarrassing as that is to admit to anyone. You can imagine where my confidence was. Hint: The Shitter. Now, I just feel awesome, and overall it's the best decision I ever made - though I still struggle with it. I had an easier time quitting smoking and drinking (of which I also had a problem).

I struggle with it because I used food to self-medicate. Eating became a compulsion I couldn't seem to handle and I actually had to relearn self-control and I used a strict vegan/fruitarian diet to do so. Why a vegan/fruitarian diet? You pretty much just end up saying 'NO' to anything you enjoyed before and learn to enjoy the healthier foods that you may not have even known existed before, without salts, over-seasonings, dressings, or grease. It's quite an eye-opener. I had stopped this diet in favor of a vegetarian diet, but I actually miss my vegan/fruitarian diet and plan to go back. I am not promoting this diet, or saying everyone should get on it; it's a personal choice after listening to my body and how it feels.

I understand that people aren't all going to be the same, and we aren't all going to look like Hollywood-Land clones. We have different heights, body structures,diets, and overall health issues; but the point is to try and live a healthy, active life-style (moderation is key) despite your illnesses and personal mental reservations; and your body will respond to it, whether you actually lose weight, or just feel better in the long-run.

My heartiest congratulations to you! That is quite an accomplishment, as I well know - I'm currently in the same boat. Used to be 112lbs overweight, so I set out to ditch 125. 92 down, 33 to go... and yeah, that last leg of the journey's a *****.
My diet methods are apparently pretty different, but hey, whatever works and is healthy for you, right? Anyway, keep it up, you can do it! ^^

OT:
Discriminating against fat people... yeah, I can't really advocate for that. I've been on the receiving end for many years, especially back in school, and it's counterproductive. You dig your heels in and develop rationalizations and other coping mechanisms that serve to distract you from your problem, but the end result is that you dig a deeper and deeper hole to hide in without actually feeling better about yourself.
That said, there's a line between discrimination and tough love, and the latter is definitely helpful. A good friend of mine gave me hell for living my life the way I did, but he did so without being cruel; instead he pointed out that I had a great potential for discipline and therefore the means to help myself. Rather than mocking me, he levelled constructive criticism at me in his customarily brutal honesty. In the end that wasn't what got me started on losing weight, but it's be a lie to say his words didn't have any positive influence.
So, in summary, don't discriminate - extend a helping hand. You don't need to coddle or tiptoe, and many people need you to kick their ass (metaphorically of course) to help them on their way, but senseless cruelty doesn't help anyone.

 

[Sarah Frazier]

I think some of the reasons fat people get so much hate is from how inconvenient and 'gross' they are, even to other overweight people.

~Places where people have to walk must be made wider while sitting surfaces have to be bigger AND redesigned to hold all that extra weight. While not exactly inconvenient for thin people to use, it's less convenient for the places that have to redesign floor plans and furniture.

~They sometimes don't walk as quickly, which is inconvenient for people who want to get past them in a small area. Scooter-bound ones move faster and for longer stretches of time, but they're still awkward to get around if space is limited and they can't exactly skoot straight to the side.

~It definitely doesn't help if they eat extra large meals and then pick/scarf what friends don't finish or leave unattended and ask for snack gifts later. It may be cute for some, but other times it's rude and shows a lack of restraint around food.

~As was mentioned before, there's the smell that comes from places that aren't being washed well enough unless the person puts a lot of effort into bathing. It happens with skinny people too, but people with rolls that catch sweat get it worse.

~Throw the above in with the definitely obese ones who try to squeeze into clothes that would burst if they were to bend over far enough... *shudders*

~Medical expenses being shared by other tax and insurance payer. People see it as an unfair burden to pay for other people's expenses because of poor life choices or what they see as playing up a personal problem the way an asshole would say they're really just autistic.

~The attitude. How many people want to verbally smack down someone who is arrogant and expects special treatment for whatever reason, or simply float above their fellows on an inflated sense of entitlement?

And that's it for the ol' attention span. It's not right that some people go out of their way to make another person's life miserable just because they're fat due to whatever reasons, but at the same time it can be at least partially controlled by not being stupid with what and how much you eat when coupled with doing more walking than from your bed or chair to the nearest food source.

 

[somonels]

This sort of discrimination isn't wrong because it's baseless, it's wrong because fattys get their feelings hurt and bleeding hearts... being.

 

[Abedeus]

Put the clipboard down, open dictionary.com and look up the difference between 'fat' and 'obese'.

Every single study I linked involved obesity. If I personally used the word "fat" I apologise for confusing you, but don't take it as a reason to completely ignore my points. You'd be doing yourself a disservice.

Nobody winds up obese without contributing in some way.

Well I linked an awful lot of literature that disputes that claim, and they all have a lot more experience in the field than you do. But what the hell, you know best, right?

I'll leave you to your bigotry and wilful ignorance. It's all I really can do at this time.

If that's how you choose to see it, you obesity apologist.

Not that I knew those existed.

Obesity apologist is still better than a close-minded bigot that can't bother doing a little reading.

This sort of discrimination isn't wrong because it's baseless, it's wrong because fattys get their feelings hurt and bleeding hearts... being.

Are you short?

Can I call you Shorty McDwarf?

Are you thin?

Can I call you a skeleton everywhere you go and laugh at your amazing 5 pound lifting skills?

Oh, wait, I forgot how many people on Escapist are under 16 and still in middle school, where you judge people solely on appearance.

 

[viking97]

i harbor no hate towards fat people myself, but then i tend to not care about physical appearance a whole lot anyway. the way i see it, being fit in this day and age is, by-in-large, a big waste of time. No matter how strong you are, you can't work an eighth as fast as this here machine, so why bother? why not leave the gym, eat some cake and enjoy life?

P.S. The fact that i have a chubby fetish is completely unrelated and i resent you bringing it up good sir.

 

[Lawnmooer]

Is there discrimination against the obese? Yes.

Is it justified? I'm going to have to say yes.

You see, there's a difference between being a bit chubby (This can be atributed to genetics making peoples metabolism slower, thus making it difficult to not add a bit of extra weight), being fat (Which is due to poor diet and or insuffiecient amounts of exercise) and being obese (A medical condition where you are overweight to the point of being at a sever health risk, which I doubt is caused by a slow metabolism, unless you're born and your metabolism stops I don't think you can use it as an excuse)

In order to become "Obese" you must live a certain lifestyle (Lots of high sugar food and insuffiecient exercise) and you must also keep this lifestyle when you get the signs that it is a poor lifestyle (When you become chubby and later when you become fat)

Discriminating against people who are obese might actually get it into their heads that their lifestyle is not a terribly good one and that they might want to do something about it (As they obviously missed the signs) it's not that society wants everyone to look like the models do in magazines, its that when you are that unhealthy, not only are you less appealing to be around you are also going to feel kinda crappy aswell (Or so I hear, when people lose weight they always talk about how they feel a lot better all the time, mainly because of the other symptoms that come with obesity such as pains and lethargy)

When people say things like "I enjoy my weight" in attempts to stop people discriminating against them I always think "Well if I got a load of tattoo's and piercings I'm pretty sure you'd discriminate against me?" because that's what people do, when someone looks drastically different to what people consider "Normal" they discriminate against them.

In my opinion discrimination is a crappy thing to do most of the time (Like people who discriminate against gays and women etc. for no reasons other than their personal bias against them) but when you make a lifestyle choice that has drastic affects on you (Becoming obese, smoking, doing drugs and binge drinking etc.) then the only person to blame for that discrimination is yourself.

Oh and as for my thoughts on obesity? I sort of hope that the NHS refuses to help people who are obese (Outside of giving aid for them to lose weight) like they did with smokers. It's just not fair on other people to have to pay for you to kill yourself.

 

[Thyunda]

Put the clipboard down, open dictionary.com and look up the difference between 'fat' and 'obese'.

Every single study I linked involved obesity. If I personally used the word "fat" I apologise for confusing you, but don't take it as a reason to completely ignore my points. You'd be doing yourself a disservice.

Nobody winds up obese without contributing in some way.

Well I linked an awful lot of literature that disputes that claim, and they all have a lot more experience in the field than you do. But what the hell, you know best, right?

I'll leave you to your bigotry and wilful ignorance. It's all I really can do at this time.

If that's how you choose to see it, you obesity apologist.

Not that I knew those existed.

Obesity apologist is still better than a close-minded bigot that can't bother doing a little reading.

This sort of discrimination isn't wrong because it's baseless, it's wrong because fattys get their feelings hurt and bleeding hearts... being.

Are you short?

Can I call you Shorty McDwarf?

Are you thin?

Can I call you a skeleton everywhere you go and laugh at your amazing 5 pound lifting skills?

Oh, wait, I forgot how many people on Escapist are under 16 and still in middle school, where you judge people solely on appearance.

You can call me Shorty McDwarf if you want. I know all the height jokes. Got 'em all in high school. I'm 5'11 now and my younger brothers still dwarf me. And so I still get called short. Skinny too actually. Make fun of my upper body strength as well. I'm quite aware that it's lacking. I'm stronger than I look but still not as strong as most of my friends.

Now, shockingly, I'm not going to be bothered by you calling me a bigot. You can stick with your papers and false science, but I think I might just ask for some precedent, some evidence of pre-modernised obesity. You find me one non-monarch, non-noble from history who managed to be obese despite sharing the same diet as his peers, and I will retract my statement.

And I don't mean fat. I don't mean he has a bit of a muffintop going on. I don't mean he has a fine pair of mantits. I mean he actually struggles to move. He sweats all the time. His neck has actually gone AWOL and he hasn't seen his feet since he was twelve.

THAT'S obesity. And you can quote all the papers you want but I'll just say the same damn thing. That's not natural. That's not healthy. Oh just keep stuffing your face, big man, because the Escapist will back you up. It's not your fault, dude, it's not your fault. You're normal. You're okay. Have another Big Mac, big man, it won't do you any harm.

Your attitude is unhealthy. How is anybody supposed to keep at a healthy weight when you make them feel guilty about trying to better themselves?

 

[Thyunda]

i harbor no hate towards fat people myself, but then i tend to not care about physical appearance a whole lot anyway. the way i see it, being fit in this day and age is, by-in-large, a big waste of time. No matter how strong you are, you can't work an eighth as fast as this here machine, so why bother? why not leave the gym, eat some cake and enjoy life?

P.S. The fact that i have a chubby fetish is completely unrelated and i resent you bringing it up good sir.

You are such a manipulative swine I think I love you. You have actually made my evening.

 

[RafaelNegrus]

I...don't see why it's such a bad thing to encourage people not to be obese.

I'll break it down into chunks

1) Discrimination, stigmatisation and bullying (which is what it is in the end) is not good for people's health. This misconception that you should mock, stigmatise, or belittle an obese person "for their own good" is beyond ridiculous. Studies - REAL studies that is, not ones sponsored by Weight Watchers or Kellog's, have shown that the stress of being constantly stigmatised by people for their weight breeds within people the same illnesses that are perceived as being "obesity diseases", diabetes? Heart problems due to blood-pressure? All capable of being caused by stress. And the idea that pointing out someone's weight is an eye-opener to them... Well, do you really think obese people are walking around UNAWARE that they're obese? When they have TV, Films, Magazines, People On The Street, Friends, Family etc all pointing it out to them every day? You really think your one stupid comment is going to be the one to "save" them?
Bibliography
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/8/128
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2007.114769
fiercefatties.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/nichd-letter.pdf

2) Weight has nothing to do with your health. No, really. Remember how when you were a little kid you got told "people come in all shapes and sizes"? That's still true, it's just that the weight-loss industry is worth $68 billion dollars and it's very good for them to breed a culture of shame, fear, and hatred.
What you eat and how much you exercise is highly unlikely to determine how much you weigh, and in fact it has been shown from as early as 1959 that diet and exercise only cause weightloss in 5% of people, and even then only about 10% of it, so most obese people will still be obese at the end of that.
But here's the thing - eating well and exercising moderately for 30 minutes, 5 times a week completely eliminates all risk of the illnesses associated with obesity. It is possible to be obese and healthy. The idea that you're only healthy when you're thin is incredibly damaging to obese people AND ideal weight people. This line of thinking cause people to go on extreme diets and exercise far too much - and yes, that is a thing - thus putting a strain on their body. You know those contestants of The Biggest Loser Michelle Obama thinks are such a good role-model? They shit, piss and puke blood when you're not looking.
It also causes thin people who don't eat well or exercise to assume that they're fine. In fact, all those "obesity diseases"? Ideal weight people who live poor lifestyles can run afoul of them too.
Bibliography
http://www.jabfm.org/content/25/1/9.abstract?etoc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/10/1/9
http://www.rxpgnews.com/obesity/Adolescent_Dieting_May_Predict_Obesity_and_Eating__3907_3907.shtml
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Dieting-Does-Not-Work-UCLA-Researchers-7832.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/17469900
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/10449014
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/1580453
3) Creating a culture where weight is equated with health is seriously dangerous.
You know that scary "obese people are costing healthcare money!" rhetoric that gets thrown around? A fun fact: No matter what your cause of death or illness an obese person, it will get attributed to obesity. We're not the apocalypse you all think/hope we are.
But that's a symptom of a big, big issue - that all an obese persons' ailments are attributed to their obesity. Heart problems, diabetes, high blood pressure, strep throat (seriously), pretty much anything. So when an obese person goes to the doc with a problem, they will almost invariably be told to lose weight. What happens when a thin person goes to the docs with the same issues? They get actual, medically sound advice is what.
Bibliography:
yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/what/bias/WeightBiasStudy.pdf
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/steven_blair/
thinkmuscle.com/health/obesity-health-metabolic-fitness/
http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198603063141003
http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/the-true-cost-of-fatties/
http://bigliberty.net/2012/05/11/other-reason-why-fat-person-cost-calculations-are-bogus/

In short, we need to focus on HEALTH, not WEIGHT. What is the actual point of saying "hey you, be less obese!" over "hey you, eat a balanced diet and exercise 30 minutes, 5 times a week!"? Well I can tell you the actual point; money, dear boy. But certainly not health.

Okay, so I didn't read all of the things you had linked, but one that seemed pretty comprehensive on all of your points, namely http://www.nutritionj.com/content/10/1/9 that one.

Reading through it (because that's what you have to do when using these for arguments, the abstracts are only basic summaries) what I got is that the weight itself is not necessarily an issue, but it is correlated with many other medical conditions that are issues, which should be addressed. So yes, I can see that there's the possibility of being overweight and still healthy, but that of course obviously varies greatly. I know that one study it cited used people age 50 and over, but weight that might be considered 'healthy' I think varies with age, but I obviously don't know that for sure.

The study also cites "contemporary dieting practices" which I would really like to see defined. What kind of diets are they studying? What if someone switches from an unhealthy diet (aka, something like mine which involves a lot of food that is nutritionally similar to pepperoni pizza) to something that is far more healthy and then reaping benefits from that.

 

[RafaelNegrus]

snip

Alright, since you don't care about the United States, how about Britain? 22 percent of British adults are obese, and that number is estimated to go up to a third of the population by 2020. Do you not care about them either? Here's a ranking of the world's fattest countries and you can finds the ones you do care about http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/07/worlds-fattest-countries-forbeslife-cx_ls_0208worldfat_2.html

(although this combines overweight and obese together, so the numbers are pretty high)

Poland, 98th.

Yeah, I'm shaking in my booties.

The frightening thing is that this number of people is supposed to grow by 40 percent over the next ten years (and that's ten years from when the article was published in 2007).

"Obesity isn't caused by people, it's caused by obese people"? So you're saying people have no control over it at all? That's just plain not true. If it's genetics then why is the number rising? It's not like people's genes are suddenly getting worse.

How about "Medicine is better and being fat no longer makes you die at 50". Health care is getting better and better, so an obese person lives longer. That means they contribute to the "total amount of fat people" for longer while new "fatties" join the fray.

And that's same reason why general life expectancy is rising. It's not that people suddenly have better genes that allow them to live past 60, or that they stop committing suicide after retirement. Life is getting better and easier. Also most people who are obese or overweight don't work physically - they don't have to. Since more and more people work in the 3rd industry (...or however it's called in English - the non-agriculture one), the less work physically.

And I'm all in favor of a tax on unhealthy foods. Obesity has a direct monetary cost on society, and I see little issue with asking people to pay the cost of their lifestyle. IF it helps people make better choices then that's great, but even if it only pays the bills for them then that's fine.

Taxing unhealthy foods - again, why? They aren't poisonous. They aren't a target for smugglers or crack dealers like drugs or tobacco or alcohol. They don't affect people other than the ones eating them. HOW DOES THIS HAVE AN EFFECT ON OTHER PEOPLE?

I'm going to just look past how little you care about the rest of the world, and the obesity rate is rising amongst all age groups, For the U.S. (which we all know you care so much about) the childhood obesity rate has tripled in one generation, up to 17%, so it's not rising life expectancies that have done this. http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/childhood/index.html

As for the tax on unhealthy foods, I'm in favor of them because they mesh with the economic concept known as externalities. The quintessential example of an externality is pollution, a company has a cost which it puts on the rest of society instead of paying for itself. Environmental regulations usually try to make the company shoulder the cost of cleaning up whatever they're doing.

The issue with externalities is that they create situations where behaviors are done more often than is ideal. Many people have brought up that a factor leading to obesity is that unhealthy food is so cheap and healthy food is expensive. This means that people are buying more unhealthy food than they would if they were shouldering all the monetary costs of their decisions (medical costs are the prominent ones, which get paid by healthy individuals either through their taxes or private insurance).

And so with a tax on unhealthy foods then more people would buy healthy food and live better lives, while still having access to unhealthy food if they really want it. I think that's a good outcome overall.

Oh, and by defining them as unhealthy food, then you're admitting that they're bad for you and could be compared to poisonous (people who eat themselves to death)

 

[Heinrich843]

The thing is, there are a lot of misconceptions surrounding obesity. A lot of people associate laziness with obesity for example. Even more people assume losing weight is an extremely easy process when it's not. All of these stereotypes coupled with the diet industry's and indeed society's obsession with "the perfect body" and it's no surprise fat people are being discriminated against.

This.

Now I know not everyone cares if they're underweight, or overweight.. but it's all about being healthy. Some members really doesn't understand how weight loss works, either they haven't been able to lose weight themselves- or they're skinny or whatever and feel heavier people just aren't doing enough.

Matthew brought up an extremely good point- it's easier to cut out bad foods than it is to burn it. This along with regular, determined, moderate exercise can bring a person's overall weight down in a healthy fashion, also raising their physical fitness level.

Smaller people, and lighter people may have no trouble starting a regular cardiovascular routine, but you've got to remember- being overweight is like wearing a weight vest for track. They've got to start smaller. They can't just go out and run a mile and gradually increase their speed and distance. To avoid any sports injuries, they should start out walking, swimming or other less violent activities- while cutting down on eating bad things. Doing this consistently, while eating high density, nutrient rich foods will usually cause this person to lose weight.

Seriously, quit telling heavier/fat people to go out and run. They're gonna have bum knees and stress fractures within a month. They have to gradually ease into a more active life style. Over-exertion is only going to be counter-productive.

Keep in mind, people who are fat do not eat more than the average person does. They simply eat the wrong things.

Captcha: "first water" - Yes, stay hydrated.

EDIT: I should also mention that when you reach a physically fit and good level of activity- there's not magical sign that says- "GOOD JOB". You may still be heavier than other people, but what's important is that you are healthy.

 

[Heinrich843]

It's not about losing weight, it's about leading a healthy lifestyle. Don't automatically assume that being skinny means being healthy. Yes, for some people a change of diet and routine might bring their weight down but for most, it won't and there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you lead a healthy lifestyle you will be healthy.

I kinda said that that- I said "usually" in my post and grouped underweight with overweight- but I added an edit just as you were posting. I agree with you, well- so long as you're speaking generally.

If a person should follow a good diet of high density, nutrient rich foods and regular, persistent exercise and still have an extremely high body fat percentage- I would honestly see a doctor to confirm that the weight isn't a symptom of a thyroid disorder.

 

[Therumancer]

Okay, my opinions on this are mixed. Over a period of time I have become morbidly obese, something brought on by a ton of medication, a sedimentary lifestyle, depression, and tons of other contributing factors. In short having brain damage and being eventually forced into retirement and losing what passed for your career under bad circumstances just generally sucks.

As a result, I can see how for some people discrimination for being fat is uncalled for. The stereotype of someone who just eats a ton and is totally lazy isn't always the case. Trust me, take the right medications for years on end and you'll fit that bill. That does not change the simple fact that the streotype is true in most cases. Speaking for myself, the attitude I get is somewhat mitigated by the dent in my head.

The issue with obesity in this country is that right now huge numbers of people are obese, and while all of them have excuses, simply by the numbers like 99% of the people are lying or fooling themselves with those excuses. This obesity leads to health problems, and problems for those who don't suffer from such disadvantages. It wasn't a big deal decades ago where you might occasionally run into some huge, fat person, but now when you see fatties literally everywhere, it's an issue.

Of course a lot of the problems DO come from things like widespread depression over the economy, and of course the conveinence of a society where most things are automated and most people in the US and other countries with problems (most of the first world) are employed performing sedimentary or semi-sedimentary tasks, which still manage to render them totally exhausted.

In some cases I DO think fat discrimination is fine, and that simply not tolerating it in society will force change over a period of time, as long as there is some care taken with who is discriminated against. I also think that the problem is one that has to be addressed as a society, and not as a health issue, so much as one of changing it's building blocks around enough so less people will become fat just by living more or less normally. I think employers need to be held more responsible for the condition of the people that work for them. That guy stuffed behind a desk, into a cubicle, or made to stand in one place all day, is probably going to put on weight, and the guys setting up the jobs should watch that and keep it in mind in setting the jobs and positions. Some companies have come up with things equivilent to school recess/exercise periods, it's not common yet, but I'm beginning to think it should probably be made a requirement. Ditto for some cases where they add physical fitness requirements to holding jobs, even if they don't otherwise require them, it's happened, but it's not yet common. Require even an IS guy or paper pusher to be able to do X number of push ups, sit ups, toe touches, etc... and re-test every six months, while providing those recess periods, and there you go. Extreme action, but it is a bit of a crisis, I think the goverment could justify it, even if employers wouldn't exactly relish the thought. As I said, I've read of some isolated cases of things like this being tried voluntarily, and it seems to have a positive impact.

 

[monkey_man]

I'm a bit fat, not overly obese, but I have a belly. It's entirely my fault, and no one else's. I Chose to be kinda fat, I can stop being fat any day I like, as long as I try.
I don't.

And that's why this is different from all the other discriminations. Being fat is a choice, a lifestyle. Being black, or short, or ugly is genetics. You can't change that(well you can, but that's called surgery, and I'm not counting that). But being fat is (almost exclusively, I know there are meds and actual disorders) a choice. And people claiming they can't help it lie. They like eating a lot. Like I do.

I also say that it's perfectly okay to yell at fat people for being fat, because they are stupid. By yelling you might convince them they are stupid, so they'll try to change.

To all fat people (including myself): Stop being fat, or stop complaining you are fat, and take the damn health issues with that. You must choose, because if I hear anyone complaining they can't help themselves without a doctor's autograph signed under a viable excuse (meds, disorder etc.) I am going to slap their bellies. SO HARD. It's vibrations will cause an earthquake.

also, some people were talking about depression, I don't think that excuses you. If you get depressed by what you are, change or stop whining and accept your big gut. Seriously, I'll slap you on the belly. Be afraid.......

 

[Terminate421]

One thing that annoys me to no end is pretty much explained by cracked.com

When I go to the grocery store and see someone on that carts, I see 3 different people:
Old people
Disabled people
Fat people

I have virtually no respect for those fat people who use those carts. It's not because I hate fat people or the obese. I hate the people that know they have a problem, want it solved, it CAN be solved, and don't do shit about it. that cart example works because when someone large walks around, their helping themselves lose extra calories when people have it so bad that they need a machine to get around, as in something they could have avoided, I get annoyed very quick.

Now of course I am not openly mean to people and I can understand am not against people who are both obese and old or obese and disabled but if you're just obese and clearly capable of using the legs god gave you? I pity you.

 

[Amarok]

Okay, so I didn't read all of the things you had linked, but one that seemed pretty comprehensive on all of your points, namely http://www.nutritionj.com/content/10/1/9 that one.

Reading through it (because that's what you have to do when using these for arguments, the abstracts are only basic summaries) what I got is that the weight itself is not necessarily an issue, but it is correlated with many other medical conditions that are issues, which should be addressed. So yes, I can see that there's the possibility of being overweight and still healthy, but that of course obviously varies greatly. I know that one study it cited used people age 50 and over, but weight that might be considered 'healthy' I think varies with age, but I obviously don't know that for sure.

The study also cites "contemporary dieting practices" which I would really like to see defined. What kind of diets are they studying? What if someone switches from an unhealthy diet (aka, something like mine which involves a lot of food that is nutritionally similar to pepperoni pizza) to something that is far more healthy and then reaping benefits from that.

By all accounts a healthy lifestyle will lead to a healthy self - barring illness and injury of course. I'm too tired and pre-occupied with other things to go looking for links right now but I will dig some up later and PM them.

The bare basics though, are this. 30 minutes of moderate exercise 5 times a week is sufficient to nullify the increased risk of certain diseases that is correlated with obesity. With that amount of exercise your risk is the same as an ideal weight person - though in truth the ideal weight person would also have to do that amount of exercise to avoid increased risk.
As far as one's diet goes, the amount of fat and/or calories you ingest has a negligable effect on your weight. No, really! Hence why those "eat and eat and never gain a pound" people exist. Health-wise, getting enough fruit and vegetables in is important, and beyond that you're free to do whatever you like. You could drink a deep-fried cola if you want, so long as you also get the good stuff in. Your body will sort out the rest, it's clever like that.

Now, let's assume you eat a very restrictive diet, and exercise way more than is necessary. Any weight-loss incurred during this process is statistically 95% likely to return within 5 years, even if you continue the new lifestyle. It is also not healthy to exercise a disproportinately high amount compared to what you're eating - When atheletes work out all day, they take in a lot more calories to compensate.

Speak of atheletes, it is possible to not only be obese and healthy, but also obese and atheletic.

Just for a some real life "couldn't ignore this unless you are deliberately doing so" examples, we have Regan Chastain, a 284lb professional dancer, in the top 1% of strength and stamina for Americans, capable of dancing as well as any other, exercises 3 hours a day or more, capable of lifting about 400lbs with her legs, and is a strong supporter of HAES, Health At Every Size, which basically promotes living healthily and not sweating the scales.

We also have Cheryl Haworth, an olympic weight-lifter. 25 years old, 300lbs, in better shape than either of us will ever be

On a lesser-known scale we have Kelly Gneiting, a 400lb man who ran a marathon in 2 hours, 6 minutes. That's a damn good time. When he performed this feat he was STILL derided by the media as clearly being an out-of-shape tub of lard, just look at him! The fact that the guy ran a freakin' marathon, and quite well at that, clearly counted for naught, there.

Sorry if that was a bit of a digression there, but your comment "overweight and still healthy" struck me as a bit tentative. It's not just possible to be overweight and "still" healthy. It's possible to be Type 3 Super Obese (which is a thing) and to completely kick ass

To wrap up this rambling response; living a healthy life will lead to a healthy self, and any scientist who's not lying out of his back teeth or being paid by a weight loss company (as you'll notice so many who bring out the more simplistic, fear-mongering studies are) will freely admit they have no idea why some people are fat and some people are thin.

 

[Cry Wolf]

SNIP

Yeah, if you can't see weight-based discrimination happens I want to say somethings that probably wouldn't bode well for my probation. However, I will share my thoughts on said discrimination in general; Any fat person who gets offended because they are called fat, try to justify how being obese "isn't their fault" or even outright tries to deny they are overweight deserve any flak they get.

And you know what? I'm a fat fuck and I got this way because food is fucking awesome and exersize is boring as hell.

Here's the thing; discriminating against someone purely because they are fat is wrong - just as any discrimination due to mostly arbitary reasoning is wrong. However, there are non-arbitary reasons related to most issues - in this case, fat people - that aren't purely arbitary and deserve it. Denial? Deserves it. False justification? Same as denial. Taking offense over trivial matter deserves it (remember, being called fat does not equal discrimination, just like calling a smoker a smoker isn't discrimination).

 

[Mayhaps]

It goes both ways, my mum is fat and when she slanders skinny people (probably because of her insecurity of her own weight) I get mad, I don't do anything but it upsets me.

To be fair, obesity is a problem, it's not something to be proud of, not as long as there are starving people in the world anyway. With that said discrimination is always bad, but criticizing is not discrimination.

She rips on skinny people? Do you mean the underweight, or people who just aren't fat?

I mean skinny people, I don't know if she's consistent about it. Mostly anyone who cares about their weight.

 

[TheTurtleMan]

Of course obesity is discriminated against. Saying it isn't discriminated against would be like saying nobody feels superior to smokers or drinkers. People should not be discriminated against for any of these things, although smoking regularly and weighing 300lbs shouldn't be accepted as social norms either.

There is a definite health problem with being obese, so people should be encouraged to lose weight for their own safety. I hope we don't get to a point in society where being morbidly obese is just as acceptable as being physically fit.

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

Everything can be changed now, so why is picking on fat people ok? From what I'm told, it is much easier to afford unhealthy food in the US than healthy. In the north here in Canada, you can get a bag of chips for a couple dollars, but a gallon of milk costs 10. A loaf of bread 6 or 7 dollars. A bag of apples? $20. Not easy to eat well.

Unless you live in the NWT, Nunavut or the Yukon I call bullshit. I live in Newfoundland and prices are nowhere near that level even in the tiny outports. (Now if you do happen to live in those above mentioned places pity on the prices but how about you fuck off with the sweeping statements? Sheesh you make it sound like Canada is some third world junk food country)