Obsidian accused of transmisogyny in Pillars of Eternity

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

1. As many people have already pointed out, it was probably a crossdresser.

2. The fucking troglodyte renamed her twitter "Pillars of Erika" so this screams attention whore on the most shameless level I think I have ever seen. It's like she's fucking PROUD she's trying to start a controversy and she's put herself at the center of it.

God damn it Twitter is horrid.

 

[Phasmal]

Are we just going to ignore the fact that most gamers are much more offended at the idea of people taking offence than anything else?

Kinda tired of the whole `let's get outraged at the outrage` club.

Ok, here's the thing- someone had an issue with something in the game, they're trying to let the developers know. The developers then get to decide whether to change it or not. If they do decide to, I don't think that's censorship, and if they don't- fair enough.

I would suggest some things to the `outraged at outrage` club-

People are gonna have issues with stuff in games, if that sends you into a fury- I would suggest taking a chill pill. These things only get so huge because of people overreacting to the complaints.

 

[endtherapture]

Are we just going to ignore the fact that most gamers are much more offended at the idea of people taking offence than anything else?

Kinda tired of the whole `let's get outraged at the outrage` club.

Ok, here's the thing- someone had an issue with something in the game, they're trying to let the developers know. The developers then get to decide whether to change it or not. If they do decide to, I don't think that's censorship, and if they don't- fair enough.

I would suggest some things to the `outraged at outrage` club-

People are gonna have issues with stuff in games, if that sends you into a fury- I would suggest taking a chill pill. These things only get so huge because of people overreacting to the complaints.

Personally I don't care if people are offended at the game itself. People are going to get offended, that's just life. What I don't approve is that these people are trying to change the game, I'm invested in the development of this game, I pledged for the game and have been waiting nearly 3 years for the game. For some easily offended Twitter person to try and change the game barely 3 days after it has been out, that's what's annoying for me.

Just because you don't like the game, doesn't give you the right to demand it be changed, and in this case, us backers should be given a say in what happens given that we literally invested in the game.

 

[Phasmal]

Personally I don't care if people are offended at the game itself. People are going to get offended, that's just life. What I don't approve is that these people are trying to change the game, I'm invested in the development of this game, I pledged for the game and have been waiting nearly 3 years for the game. For some easily offended Twitter person to try and change the game barely 3 days after it has been out, that's what's annoying for me.

Just because you don't like the game, doesn't give you the right to demand it be changed, and in this case, us backers should be given a say in what happens given that we literally invested in the game.

You're right, changing the text on a gravestone would fundamentally change the game. Or... not.

And also we're talking about someone not liking something -in- the game, not someone not liking the game. It's not the same thing.
I'm sure the developers will decide what they want to do with it.

 

[endtherapture]

Personally I don't care if people are offended at the game itself. People are going to get offended, that's just life. What I don't approve is that these people are trying to change the game, I'm invested in the development of this game, I pledged for the game and have been waiting nearly 3 years for the game. For some easily offended Twitter person to try and change the game barely 3 days after it has been out, that's what's annoying for me.

Just because you don't like the game, doesn't give you the right to demand it be changed, and in this case, us backers should be given a say in what happens given that we literally invested in the game.

You're right, changing the text on a gravestone would fundamentally change the game. Or... not.

And also we're talking about someone not liking something -in- the game, not someone not liking the game. It's not the same thing.
I'm sure the developers will decide what they want to do with it.

You are aware someone PAID $500 to have that piece of text in the game? They invested a significant amount of money to have that flavour text in the game. To value the opinion of someone on Twitter over an investor in the game would encapsulate what is wrong with gaming right now.

 

[Phasmal]

You are aware someone PAID $500 to have that piece of text in the game? They invested a significant amount of money to have that flavour text in the game. To value the opinion of someone on Twitter over an investor in the game would encapsulate what is wrong with gaming right now.

Yeah, I'm aware of that.

So, let's assume that they decide they'd like to change it, and they contacted that backer, who was fine with changing it to something else- would that still be an outrage to you?

And `what is wrong with gaming right now` is exactly the kind of over-reacting that I'm talking about.
So tell me, what's wrong with gaming? That people could possibly maybe get something changed?

 

[endtherapture]

You are aware someone PAID $500 to have that piece of text in the game? They invested a significant amount of money to have that flavour text in the game. To value the opinion of someone on Twitter over an investor in the game would encapsulate what is wrong with gaming right now.

Yeah, I'm aware of that.

So, let's assume that they decide they'd like to change it, and they contacted that backer, who was fine with changing it to something else- would that still be an outrage to you?

And `what is wrong with gaming right now` is exactly the kind of over-reacting that I'm talking about.
So tell me, what's wrong with gaming? That people could possibly maybe get something changed?

No that would be fine because it is the backers choice.

What is wrong with gaming (and really the internet in general) is a minority of people deciding they don't like an aspect of the game, and demanding it changes because it offends them. You can't just do that. It is entitlement at its highest level.

 

[The Lunatic]

Ok, here's the thing- someone had an issue with something in the game, they're trying to let the developers know. The developers then get to decide whether to change it or not. If they do decide to, I don't think that's censorship, and if they don't- fair enough.

To be fair, when they're using terms such as "Pressure" and talking about it's "Not acceptable", that goes beyond taking issue with something and instead actively trying to get something censored.

It usually results in rabid "followers" of these people sending threats and hurling abuse at people. At least, based on what we've seen in the past.

Immature people complain about stuff they can't handle, lose their shit and then throw it at the walls until they get what they want. I think you're trying to paint it far more nobly than it actually is.

 

[Phasmal]

What is wrong with gaming (and really the internet in general) is a minority of people deciding they don't like an aspect of the game, and demanding it changes because it offends them. You can't just do that. It is entitlement at its highest level.

Yeah but you can just do that.
I mean, Mass Effect ending, anyone? We had the whole entitlement argument over that too.

And then the developers of the game or whatever can completely ignore you, if they choose to. Or they can decide to change something, which is usually something small that doesn't matter. I really do not see that as a threat to gaming as a whole.

You might say that's entitled, fair enough, that's your opinion- but let's take this one as an example.

ASSUMING that the backer who wrote that joke did not intend to come off as transphobic and changes it to something else, you said that would be fine because it's their choice- well, often game developers do things that come off a certain way that they didn't want and change them- so that's fine too, right?
But we still get the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the `offended people should just shut up` crowd.

 

[Andy Shandy]

[sub]Of course this managed to get 9 fucking pages >.<[/sub]

Honestly, when I first saw it, I thought the initial tweet was a bit of an over-reaction. I thought any "joke" (not that the poem was funny at all) was at the expense of the "hero" more than anything else. However, looking it over again, I can also understand how upsetting a "joke" about someone committing suicide because the person they slept with could be trans would be.

And somehow yet again, much like the Fable incident from a few days ago, it's the reaction to the reaction that I find the stupidest.

 

[endtherapture]

What is wrong with gaming (and really the internet in general) is a minority of people deciding they don't like an aspect of the game, and demanding it changes because it offends them. You can't just do that. It is entitlement at its highest level.

Yeah but you can just do that.
I mean, Mass Effect ending, anyone? We had the whole entitlement argument over that too.

And then the developers of the game or whatever can completely ignore you, if they choose to. Or they can decide to change something, which is usually something small that doesn't matter. I really do not see that as a threat to gaming as a whole.

You might say that's entitled, fair enough, that's your opinion- but let's take this one as an example.

ASSUMING that the backer who wrote that joke did not intend to come off as transphobic and changes it to something else, you said that would be fine because it's their choice- well, often game developers do things that come off a certain way that they didn't want and change them- so that's fine too, right?
But we still get the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the `offended people should just shut up` crowd.

Well the result of the Mass Effect ending debacle was that the complainers should shut up, because artistic integrity rules and if you don't like it you have to live with it right?

This "controversy" is different anyway because you'd be taking away a product someone has paid for specifically if you do anything about it. Why should an investor in Pillars of Eternity have their product and memorial taken away from them because someone offended? That's saying this persons feelings are more important than the initial backers feelings + money. It would also open up Obsidian to a whole load of shit and PR from their core fans if they were ever to do a Kickstarter again, as they would not be trusted any more to deliver on their products.

Especially given that the whole thing is just a load of fun and you have to do some insane mental gymnastics to even begin to take offense to a poem hidden in the back end of a 80 hour RPG title.

There's a whole lot of wailing from both sides (and you ironically are wailing yourself now, saying that the "offended people should just shut up crowd" should now do the shutting up) but I'd hope that Obsidian put their core fanbase and backers of the game as priority ahead of the "I am offended, CHANGE IT" crowd.

 

[IceForce]

Well, this thread is a barrel of laughs, isn't it.

He's a fun little game to make it more entertaining: Every time you see someone in this thread posting something like "These stupid people always getting offended at things", or "People need to grow a thicker skin", imagine the post is instead referring to GamerGate getting all offended at the "Gamers Are Dead" articles.

In fact, GG didn't just demand a simple change. No, GG wanted the 'offending' sites to be taken offline altogether. That's a fuck load worse than the storm-in-a-teacup this thread is about.

It always seems like gamers are the only ones who are allowed to be offended, and no one else is.
How ironic and lacking in self-awareness this whole situation has become...

 

[Phasmal]

This "controversy" is different anyway because you'd be taking away a product someone has paid for specifically if you do anything about it. Why should an investor in Pillars of Eternity have their product and memorial taken away from them because someone offended? That's saying this persons feelings are more important than the initial backers feelings + money. It would also open up Obsidian to a whole load of shit and PR from their core fans if they were ever to do a Kickstarter again, as they would not be trusted any more to deliver on their products.

Especially given that the whole thing is just a load of fun and you have to do some insane mental gymnastics to even begin to take offense to a poem hidden in the back end of a 80 hour RPG title.

You literally just said it would be okay if they wanted it changed. Now... it's not?
If the backer is fine with changing it, then surely there is no problem.

There's a whole lot of wailing from both sides (and you ironically are wailing yourself now, saying that the "offended people should just shut up crowd" should now do the shutting up) but I'd hope that Obsidian put their core fanbase and backers of the game as priority ahead of the "I am offended, CHANGE IT" crowd.

I do certainly think that the people offended at offence should calm down - though I am under no illusions that they will shut up.
Also, you've just decided that everyone who is offended is not a core fanbase and everyone who is, is not. Why?
What makes you think that?
Personally, I think it's a dumb thing and don't give a diddly-fuck if it got taken out, and I'm looking forward to buying this game. (Would be buying it right now if I didn't have a wedding to go to in another country this month).

 

[IceForce]

theft.

Wait, are you serious? Please tell me you used the wrong word there by mistake.

 

[Phasmal]

1. The backer paid $500 for this to be put in game. The backer therefore in this case, has the right to decide what to do with it since it's effectively his little part of code IN GAME as a memorial for how much money he gave Obsidian to make the game. Therefore it's their choice if they want it removed. If it's removed/changed without their consent, then that's unfair and is either a breach of contract or just theft.

Well that's up to the backer and the game makers. Personally I'll wait and see what happens before declaring it what's wrong with gaming.

2. The core demographic of Obsidian's game are the people who backed and pre ordered the game. They are a vocal majority present on Obsidian's forums. If you go there to the thread on this topic everyone is in favour of keeping that game as it is with the memorial in place.

Literally only those people are the core demographic? Nobody who bought the game after it was launched? Hmm, I don't know about that. Even the woman who tweeted about the joke owns and likes the game.

I hope you can wrap your head around these two simple concepts.

Now, now, we needn't get shirty.

 

[endtherapture]

theft.

Wait, are you serious? Please tell me you used the wrong word there by mistake.

Definition for theft:

"In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it."

If the persons in game memorial (which they have taken money for) is taken away without a refund then Obsidian have technically deprived the rightful owner of their "property" in game without permission so you could argue it is theft.

 

[Eddie the head]

This reminds me of the Skyrim slut shamming thing. Yeah who would have thought cutthroats and thieves aren't exactly enlightened in terms of gender politics. In this an arrogant man whore might be a bit superficial. surprise.

Ehh. If you want to be offended whatever. Don't care.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

The problem here as it stands, is three parts.

One: We live in a culture where no one can even tolerate anything they find offensive even a little bit. It's why we have so much of an outrage industry based on race, gender, and sexuality. People have become oversensitive to the point of lunacy.

Two: People keep getting angry at other people no matter how valid of a complaint, then defend tasteless things like this.

Third: There are really over looked groups who often pose valid complaints, to which both sides of these arguments react with vehemence either in defence of, or actively against. So we end up cowed to the more vocal of the two groups, usually leaving us more sheltered and susceptible to the outrage machine. This part in particular feeds the other two.

 

[halisme]

I'm sorry, but the guy in the poem seems more like an idiot.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I'm sorry, but the guy in the poem seems more like an idiot.

And you "OHLAWDTHEGGPEEPLS" folks are a bit late.