Obsidian Hopes "Digital Distribution Stabs the Used Game Market in the Heart"

[lacktheknack]

Honestly why are devs getting so mad about the used games model? When someone buys your product they have the right to sell it again, that's called capitalism.

Capitalism is only good when it's in favor of the companies. When it's in the favor of the customers companies throw a fit.

Of course, that goes TWO ways.

 

[RandV80]

Frankly, fuck him. Let's see what his position is when he can't afford to pay for brand-new games.

I understand why new games cost so much, I understand they're risky ventures, but that doesn't change the fact that there are people who simply cannot afford box fresh games.

Hah, way to provide a great example of the point I was going to make. Personally in this publisher vs gamer battle I find both sides to be annoying, with the gamer side growing. Now I know this doesn't necessarily apply to games which are primarily multi-player, but here's a novel idea: If you can't afford box fresh games then buy it next year when the price drops!

I mean seriously, are you all such sheep that you just have to get each triple AAA release the moment it comes out? That seems to be what the used game market amounts to these days, getting a big new release, playing through it, then immediately trading it in for credit on next months big release.

Problem I have with this is it's gaming on a budget with an instant gratification mentality. Show a little patience and you can make significant cost savings, the game after all will be just as good next year as it is now. In some cases even better actually because by that time all the bugs will be worked out and you could have additional DLC and mods available. Further more, the newer digital distribution platform is bloody well awesome for this! Not only do you have access to old games for cheap prices at all times, with all purchases directly supporting the developers, but you get awesome weekend and holiday sales. Personally I'm pretty poor right now, can't really afford to spend more than $10 on a game, but thanks to digital distribution I can still play all the big titles like Batman, Fallout, Bioshock, Dead Space, and so on.

I used to fill my gaming budget needs with used games, but going digital has both saved me a lot of money and increased my library. So the way I see it digital distribution stabbing used games (which still have every right to exist) through the heart is win win for everyone... except of course the middlemen.

 

[Lunar Templar]

bummer, i kinda don't see that happening ....

least not while their still charging a full $60 for a download. prices need to come down before his argument has any creditability to it, and no, steam sales don't count, they're SALES a discount of the base price.

 

[lacktheknack]

Some games have game crashing bugs that kill the game. If we lose the ability to sell those games, I would stop buying games entirely so I'm not stuck with a $60 loss.

A. I really don't believe you.

B. If you do a Google search for " bugs", then you have MORE than enough material on whether or not your game will be glitchy, without spending any money.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Hah, way to provide a great example of the point I was going to make. Personally in this publisher vs gamer battle I find both sides to be annoying, with the gamer side growing. Now I know this doesn't necessarily apply to games which are primarily multi-player, but here's a novel idea: If you can't afford box fresh games then buy it next year when the price drops!

Or buy it pre-owned, and make a saving. Even waiting a few months, pre-owned will still be cheaper than a dropped price title when you buy it fresh.

I mean seriously, are you all such sheep that you just have to get each triple AAA release the moment it comes out?

Oooh, calling people sheep. Edgy!

Sorry, that was bitchy. Couldn't help myself. The point I was making was that even waiting for a AAA release is more expensive than waiting and then buying it pre-owned

That seems to be what the used game market amounts to these days, getting a big new release, playing through it, then immediately trading it in for credit on next months big release.

Some people do that. Other people, who don't have much money, will shop around for a pre-owned game they want to play that costs less than a box fresh version. How is this a problem? Isn't this the entire ethos of intelligent consumerism, to buy the exact same product at a lower price? You can't blame people for wanting to pay less money.

Problem I have with this is it's gaming on a budget with an instant gratification mentality. Show a little patience and you can make significant cost savings, the game after all will be just as good next year as it is now.

Exactly. Wait a few weeks after release, buy pre-owned for roughly the same price the game will drop to after a year, and you're sorted.

In some cases even better actually because by that time all the bugs will be worked out and you could have additional DLC and mods available.

DLC which costs more money? I feel you're not really getting the whole "too poor to buy new" aspect. When I didn't have any money, much as I may have wanted some DLC, there was no way I was getting it. If I can only afford to shell out ten quid for the game itself, how can I justify spending the same amount again for a little extra content?

Further more, the newer digital distribution platform is bloody well awesome for this! Not only do you have access to old games for cheap prices at all times, with all purchases directly supporting the developers, but you get awesome weekend and holiday sales. Personally I'm pretty poor right now, can't really afford to spend more than $10 on a game, but thanks to digital distribution I can still play all the big titles like Batman, Fallout, Bioshock, Dead Space, and so on.

I'm going to assume you're a PC gamer, then? Those sort of titles on my 360 are far more expensive than a pre-owned copy is in the local Game.

Also, ow ow ow my head, this new layout is killing me. Less white!

 

[StarCecil]

If you can't afford box fresh games then buy it next year when the price drops!

Or... and this is just me being crazy here... I can buy it used. Shocking concept, I know.

 

[mysecondlife]

Well Obsidian.. I hate broken and unfinished games.

 

[BrotherRool]

Another developer pegs the used game market as the second coming of Satan, more news at eleven.

Here's an idea: if they're really that strapped for cash, why don't they just scale back the cost of actually developing games? Sure, it might mean they put out a few smaller titles instead of big blockbuster ones, but smaller games mean smaller risks.

If you look at the article, that's exactly what they want to do. Unless

"Our eventual hope is that we can stockpile enough resources to release our own titles digitally. Smaller games can be very satisfying projects to work on, and it would be great to do that. But it's going to take time for us to get there; we want to make sure we do it right."

Means something different

/snark.

But okay lets move forward from here, we've learnt some interesting information that Obsidian doesn't actually even have the money to churn out smaller games and that churning out smaller games costs more than being hired to work on other people's IPs. (incidentally this actually means it must be a larger risk too, because when Obsidian works for a publisher, presumably all the money must be the publishers, whereas pushing out smaller original games all the money has to come from them)

So you're idea doesn't work but is an excellent suggestion and exactly what Obsidian want to do in their future.

The other thing is, telling Obsidian to scale back was a terrible idea, you know that? This is the company whose biggest flaws are not being able to hire enough quality testers and not having the development resources to finish their games properly.

But I really do hope they achieve their goal someday. They're my most highly regarded developer and strike me as being very similar to Double Fine

i don't see the problem with preowned games being sold.
we do it with everything else so why not games?

Real answer (that they won't just come out and say): "We're trying to expand our profit base to avoid the "make a mega-hit or die" situation we've found ourselves in as publishers; to put it bluntly, we need more money."

Sad corollary to this: If people have to pay full price and can't trade in old games for new ones, fewer games will be bought. Any potential gains seen by the publishers will be minor and not enough to stave off disaster.

Horse shit. Any people who won't buy if they can't then resell the game are people who would then lead to at least one more lost sale through used games, making it moot. People who sell old to buy new do not help the developers long term, thats a purely short term thing. Getting rid of preowned will only help them. This isn't an economics, its basic algebra. If you cost them three sales through trading in used games to buy one new, thats not a good thing for them.

Now now, my friend, there's no need to get uppity and use naughty words. What about when you have old games that you no longer wish to play? The used game market allows you to sell the game then to put towards a new game.

It's a lovely thought but here at least is one argument where we have the numbers to support it, remember that study recently? It turns out almost all the money people make from used games goes to buying used games. It's something like 75-90%. There are lots of other lovely arguments to explore but here we can have a factual answer

 

[Dryk]

Used games or not, so many companies can't keep pouring all this money into games and expecting to all make a profit from them. Something's going to give at some point.

Also did anyone else notice that he said that digital distribution is great because it means you have to print less physical media... then complained that there's not enough demand to print more physical media?

 

[Snotnarok]

Snip

Everything is going to change with the next generation of consoles I think, with Microsoft using windows 8 on the next xbox it could potentially lead to user hardware upgrades (maybe like the 64 where you put your more ram in or whatever).

Well this is speculation, but it'd be neat if they did infact go this route because then it would be more like a PC and then updates, DLC and such might be a bit more universal and such. Though I doubt change will come this quickly considering everyone on the console market is enjoying charging a flat rate of 60 bucks for games worth 20 or less.

I am annoyed at devs doing development on just one console and by the time it gets to PC the game has no customizable controls and it's not optimized, so your system could run a holodeck but not their game.

True, but its a good sign because their milking retail copies for their worth, this is blatantly obvious with all those DLC's coming out for 10$ for a costume.

Online passes as well, Sony claims it's because another person is playing on the slot when someone buys someone elses used game. How does this make sense? One person sells it, the other person buys it and plays, there's not 1 more person playing it's just 1 person using 1 game to play. It's just excuses to try and get more out of the game they already sold to someone.
Which is really annoying because they seem to be the only ones getting away with this. Imagine if some guy pulled up as you were buying a used car, wielding a crowbar wearing a Honda badge on his suit and he says "if you want to continue using that radio, you'll have to pay me 15 bucks, otherwise I'm going to have to take it out" Sure it's not needed to drive sure but he doesn't own said car anymore so how does he have the right to do that?

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

When I sold my used car, the car company didn't get a cut.

When I sold my used textbooks, the textbook company didn't get a cut.

I've sold used comics, used books, used this, used that, and used the-other-thing, and I don't remember any of the companies that made them BAAAWWWing about not getting a cut.

Game makers: you knew people sold used games when you went into the business.

Stop goddamn bitching about it.

(Incidentally, Obsidian? Try making a game that isn't a glitchy piece of shit. Maybe then people won't want to resell it.)

 

[bladescavenger]

I personally hate digital distribution...I see pros and cons to both, and I think both physical and digital media should coexist and not have one choice win over the other. I personally LOVE owning something I can physically hold in my hand. Something that I can say I OWN. If for w/e reason the internet isn't working, or God forbid the PSN or XBL goes down...then what? Everything I've bought and paid for just sitting in limbo.

And on the subject of used games, they are idiots if they honestly think they lose money from used sales. So many games are games I would have never had the opportunity to play had it not been for used sales. I only make so much an hour, and I have bills and other important things to pay for, that come before my play money...so demanding I pay 60 dollars for every game out there is just ridiculous. On top of thanks to used games, I have been led to buy sequels brand new that I never would have prior...EX. I bought Uncharted 1 and 2 used. I preordered Uncharted 3 as soon as I could. Make good games, and we will buy. And if digital copies cut down on cost and is "environmentally friendly" then why the hell do they still demand the full 60 dollar price tag as if you were still paying for the physical media to be made?

 

[Sylveria]

Honestly why are devs getting so mad about the used games model? When someone buys your product they have the right to sell it again, that's called capitalism.

Because they're greedy and don't like that capitalism works both ways. They also don't grasp that people use the money made from selling old games to buy their new games.

What I find the most humor in is that sooner or later these people are gonna get their way. Either digital distribution will completely replace physical copies or the used game market will get outlawed and you know what the result will be? Another industry collapse because the vast majority of the gaming populace does not have the income to buy every single game they want new without selling their old games first.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Given that the high asking price is justified by the abillity to recoup part of that expense through trade ins,

It fucking is not! The so caled high asking price is the one that hasn't been affected by inflation since videogames were first sold in the mid fucking eighties. If it were a fair price, it would be adjust for inflation to $121, without any ability to resell.

...what planet do you live on?

I'll first say I'm English, so can only speak for the prices here

but in the past 10 years, I have seen games rise from £30. To £35. Then £40. They stayed there for a while. Then £45. Now the average RRP is £50, with some titles asking for £55 (I'm looking at you MW3). Last I checked, rising by 66% in a decade is not staying the same price for 3.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Given that the high asking price is justified by the abillity to recoup part of that expense through trade ins,

It fucking is not! The so caled high asking price is the one that hasn't been affected by inflation since videogames were first sold in the mid fucking eighties. If it were a fair price, it would be adjust for inflation to $121, without any ability to resell.

...what planet do you live on?

I'll first say I'm English, so can only speak for the prices here

but in the past 10 years, I have seen games rise from £30. To £35. Then £40. They stayed there for a while. Then £45. Now the average RRP is £50, with some titles asking for £55 (I'm looking at you MW3). Last I checked, rising by 66% in a decade is not staying the same price for 3.

Eh. In the US, prices have been pretty much always been the same. Super Mario Bros for the SNES on release was $49.99. Price of games went up $10 in the past 20 years.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

He raises one good point - DD is cutting production costs and time severely so products can actually be released faster without fear of losing quality (scratched discs).

I do however condemn his condemnation of the second-hand market, for those who can't for some reason access DD. It's been the way of life since... Forever.