Obsidian Hopes "Digital Distribution Stabs the Used Game Market in the Heart"

[Sunrider]

Chris Avellone is a flaming imbecile.

This statement sums up my feelings about this, and I have nothing more to add.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Actually I hit the mark with a half argument

No you didn't. You completely missed the point. You argue how gaming is a luxury. That doesn't mean people don't want to play games. Lamborghini is a luxury but you can still sell a used Lamborghini to a used car dealership without any issues. Now guess what happens without used games market. Let's say you have $10 lying around and you really want a new Mass Effect game. But you can't afford it. So what do you do? Without used games market you wouldn't have the option of selling one of the games you regret buying in order to have enough money to buy a new game. Is this concept so difficult for you to comprehend? Used games market has to exist because developers make shitty games. Shitty games that without used games market would never be sold to anyone, and if someone buys one of the shitty games he would be stuck with it forever. Games that aren't worth a stinkin' penny. If you can sell a used car, or a used table or whatever, why shouldn't you be able to sell a used game?

And like I said, it encourages piracy. If you buy one game from a certain developer, and you don't like it, the chances are you won't buy their next game no matter how good it is if you don't have the option to sell it and get your money back if you don't like it. It's a kind of insurance against shitty games. And you want to take that away from people.

Bottom line is, people should be able to sell their property. They should be able to sell the shit they don't need anymore.

 

[Frostbite3789]

Capitalism is only good when it's in favor of the companies. When it's in the favor of the customers companies throw a fit.

Used games rarely are low enough in price compared to the new game that it doesn't make a difference. Honestly the disparity is usually a $5 difference.

Not to mention that stores that aren't GameStop have these thing called 'sales' which frequently include new games. Target right now has AC: Revelations for $40 on PC and $50 on console. New. Right now a used copy of AC:R at GameStop is $55. So, really, if you have an iota of patience and know how to look around at more than one store, you can save a lot more money than you can buying used.

Used games are for the lazy.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Aye, I read that article and I thought... well, Oblivion folks, as much as I may or may not like whatever you will be coming up next... how about this: I do not like digital distribution. Would you rather sell me the CD/DVD/Bluray or sell me nothing at all?

So far, I have found that reselling games that come with online passes sell with a minimal loss if I sell them with those online passes intact. In fact, it has made the games we finished and don't need anymore very, very cheap. If anything, online passes are a nuisance that will prevent me from pre-ordering and buying a game new at a premium. I was tempted to go have a look at the RAGE underground system and enjoy the goodies that come with that whatever edition. But I decided against it, simply because I don't like to be told what to do and how to do it by people I just paid to get some entertainment and distraction. If I go out and buy a bottle of wine, it doesn't come with Magic Meter Man who will stab me in the throat if I drink more than two glasses or dare to share it with friends.

I liked what Nintendo did with the retro games section. I am willing to throw more money at something like that, if it's well thought through and works, proper additional plastic controller provided.

I do not like games that make me look like a tool when I buy them and suffer through all the kafkaesque crap that makes piracy look like the smart gamers choice. It's just not right.

 

[Frostbite3789]

Capitalism is only good when it's in favor of the companies. When it's in the favor of the customers companies throw a fit.

Used games rarely are low enough in price compared to the new game that it doesn't make a difference. Honestly the disparity is usually a $5 difference.

Not to mention that stores that aren't GameStop have these thing called 'sales' which frequently include new games. Target right now has AC: Revelations for $40 on PC and $50 on console. New. Right now a used copy of AC:R at GameStop is $55. So, really, if you have an iota of patience and know how to look around at more than one store, you can save a lot more money than you can buying used.

Used games are for the lazy.

And during the Black Friday weeks, GameStop had most of its games that hadn't come out that month on sale for $40 too. I picked up Dynasty Warriors 7 this way.

Generalizations are for the lazy.

And very rarely does GameStop have sales. Generally only on used games and generally only if you pay their subscription fee for a PowerUp Rewards card. It's how they draw you into buying used, because that's how they make their profits.

 

[StarCecil]

Aren't these the same idiots that are known more for making shit sequels to great games?

Smile when you say that, partner!

They, last I checked, have never had the same publisher twice, which I find amusing to no end. Though I could be wrong about that.

To my understanding, they've never had the same publisher twice because they are a "freelance" developer. They develop games on contract (like New Vegas, KotOR2 and others) or they approach a publisher to fund a specific game (Alpha Protocol).

They are known for great writing, but awful programming. Which goes back to the days when a good chunk of their employees were at Black Isle, working on the first two Fallout games.

Capitalism awards the smart consumer, the one who uses logic instead of blindly buying. This applies to everything, from car buying to buying computers.

Isn't capitalism, therefore, rewarding me for buying used and not new? I get to have the luxury good that I want, at a price I'm willing to pay and I am no less satisfied.

 

[Sutter Cane]

the amount of butthurt in this thread is staggering.

"Oh my god, a game developer made a comment that I disagree with. OBSIDIAN IS NOW OFFICIALLY THE WORST COMPANY EVAR!!!!!"

 

[Aggieknight]

So why is gaming the ONLY one that complains about used sales? I don't see anyone else going after Craigslist. Ebay seems to be fine and dandy. Libraries are doing okay. Amazon is doing peachy.

Maybe it's because people didn't buy their crappy game, and they lost money. Instead of blaming themselves for why their piece of crap game didn't sell, they blame someone else. First they blamed pirates, now used game consumers, and tomorrow they'll blame someone else.

I think it's because other groups can't due to history (book publishers, car manufacturers) or have been smacked down in the past over it (MAFIA).

Why do you think publishers are so interested in E-books? Gets them out of customers reselling their product. How about the MAFIA and digital distribution? Gets them out of customers reselling their product.

Now, for both those industries it is creating nightmares related to perceived value (why should I pay the same price for an E-book as a physical book), but both are trying really hard to hold the line on price.

Game industry execs that moan about used game sales can DIAF as far as I'm concerned on this subject. I don't buy used games (because it doesn't save much money) and don't sell my games (too much inconvenience), but their moaning makes me less likely to buy their f_'ing games. Make a product that people want to keep and people won't sell them. How many used copies of Skyrim are there at your local Gamestop?

 

[Supernova2000]

Sometimes I wonder if there's some sort of test with a minimum stupid quota to become a high-up game industry executive, in which the applicant fails because they have too much common sense! If the metaphorical stake does get driven through the heart of the used games market - something I find incredibly useful, especially when I'm dubious about a game actually being worth £40 - then a lot of people will no longer be able to afford new games, given their cost nowadays because unlike the likes of Chris Avellone, they're not rolling around in the dosh like pigs in mud!

Such a statement as "May digital distribution stab used games in the heart!" smacks of someone who hates capitalism and secretly longs to be the ruler of a corporate dictatorship!!

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I like digital distribution. I love Steam; most of my games nowadays are in my Steam Library, all in one neat list as opposed to more boxes for my already full drawers.

 

[Neonit]

yep, give a finger they will take the whole hand. its not about "oh, we lose money" its more about "QUICK! WE CAN MAKE AN EXTRA BUCK!"

its the little thing called greed.

see, they could just release products that you WANT to keep, but its more fun to ***** and moan about "evil evil people who dare sell something they own!"

 

[Substitute Troll]

What most people in this topic don't get is that Chris isn't talking about two people trading money for a used copy of Fallout: New Vegas with each other. He's talking about the MARKET, like what GameStop is doing? GameStop gives you stuff for trading in used games which they then sell again and therefore the developers/publishers/whatever get nothing from that copy. Making it illegal or trying to prevent it by legal means would be a privacy infringement and I wouldn't want that. What we can do is to find a good service like Steam and get more people to buy their games from there.

 

[Otaku World Order]

Your post is a non sequitur, ad hominem, and appeal from tradition. All logical fallacies.

Gaming is unique in all ways from previous markets. Its an entirely new business in every shape and form. It deals with data, not products. This means there is no guarantee of making a profit like movies or TV does. Every used game sale is another dagger in the heart of console gaming. Its already weakened, and if this trend continues console gaming will be dead.

An entire market killed out of self entitlement of the consumer. Developers owe you NOTHING. They are busy trying JUST BREAK EVEN so they wont have to shut down the company.

The thing is that the used games market props up the new games market. Yes, new sales are important, but they're especially important when a game just comes out and is selling for the full $60 price tag. Trade-ins make new $60 sales possible. Yes, it hurts publishers as well, but capitalism has always been a double edged sword.

As for the breaking even argument, are you going to tell me with a straight face that Activision, 2K and EA are a hair away from bankruptcy? Really? Yeah, smaller developers like Ninja Theory are probably walking the tightrope, which is why I do try to buy games new most of the time.

The biggest problem with a digital distribution model is that used games WILL be replaced with piracy. A lot of piracy. The fact that Battlefield 3 was cracked to get past EA's worthless Origin system mere days after launch proves it.

Yes, Developers may not owe us anything, but by that logic we don't owe *them* anything either. They can be just as self-entitled as the consumers.

 

[Something Amyss]

Honestly why are devs getting so mad about the used games model? When someone buys your product they have the right to sell it again, that's called capitalism.

they only like capitalism when it supports them. Not when it's inconvenient to them.

Actually, that's kind of the problem with the capitalist model in this country anyway. Everyone seems to be all "yay capitalism" when they're making a shit-ton of money, but the second someone else is making money, or competing, or anything else, it's all "fuck this shit!"

Of course, they don't condemn capitalism, they just don't want others to take a slice of that delicious free market pie.

 

[Vrach]

In order for the game to be classified as 'Used' it has to have been 'Purchased' first.

So even if ten million people buy a used game, the devs still sold ten million copies of a game that was most likely priced at roughly $50-75.

That's a huge amount of cash.

Because you can only resell something once?

OT: Yeah, first it's piracy, now it's used games market. They just need something to harp on about to divert attention when they make a crappy product.