You dind't even bother to read the article, did you? Last time I checked, your saved game imploding is not considered a "minor bug". You got lucky, go you, that doesn't change the game being a mess for other people, which from what I've heard is even more frustrating because the game itself is pretty awesome. That the game is awesome doesn't stop it from being a broken mess.kouriichi said:
Obsidian Mailbag
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
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First the topic at hand. I pre-ordered Fallout New Vegas - silly old me. I'll never make that mistake of trusting Bethesda or Obsidian again. They've burned be before.
I have a brand new computer (just 3 weeks old). Built it myself into an Antec Nine Hundred Two cabinet.
Motherboard: Asus P6X58D-E
CPU: Core i7 950 3.06Ghz
GPU: Asus ENGTX480 (Geforce GTX 480)
RAM: Corsair Dominator 6gb ram
SSD: 120gb OCZ Vertex (not using the old magnetic disc HDD dinosaurs any more)
BRW: LG Bluray burner
PSU: Seasonic M12 700W
I have all the latest drivers installed. Latest DirectX.
All other games work nigh on perfectly.
In the game, I press New Game. Upon finishing the introduction video to FNV, I am immediately greeted by "Fallout_NV.EXE has stopped working." Classic CTD.
After 4 days of playing other non-broken games while waiting for a response/patch from Bethesda/Obsidian, I start researching. Apparently I have to use a DLL file that was made by some fan in 2008 for Fallout 3. d3d9.dll - you place it in the FNV directory.
When the game starts - it tells me it's readjusted my graphics settings. I look into the Options, and I notice that FNV now believes my GPU is a GeForce 7900GS. Clever little ID spoofing trick done by this dll. The game suddenly works pretty well, although it runs an inferior shader model for DirectX 9 - so the graphics look like clay poo. I don't mind that. I just mind the fact that Bethesda has never gotten their corporate finger out of their asses and owned up to fix this problem in the 2 years that have passed since Fallout 3! They have had TWO years to fix a game breaking problem (for some) that has been circumvented by a fan-made DLL file. I think that is scandalous.
After 30.5 hours of game time, I've finished the game. It was certainly fun enough at times. Brilliant even. But I'm growing tired of the Oblivion engine and its design limitations. Does it have some other bugs? Certainly. WARNING: Spoilers ahead. It has the occasional CTD which has only occured when loading a new area. I've been lucky in that I've frequently saved. The save-game corruption issue happens specifically in the REPCONN facility mission known as "Come Fly With Me." If you're unlucky enough to have gotten that issue - all subsequent savegames will become corrupted as well. Autosaves' own worst nightmare. But I somehow manoeuvred around that problem by some strategic saving and alternate routes. There was some other bugs as well. Branching quests accumulating into branching bugs. After I dispatched Benny in The Top's - as I left the building, my accomplice "Boone" was nowhere to be found. So I thought he had skedaddled, and tried to hire another goon. But he said "you've already got company." I was annoyed, but I didn't think more about it. Until I went to see Caesar ("Render Unto Caesar"). Now is when a bug from the Benny quest piled up on top of the next (unrelated) quest. As I was approaching the camp of Caesar's Legion, I showed him my "Mark of Caesar" - giving me free passage to see Caesar. Yet, they always ended up attacking. After some researching, I learned that it's because my accomplice "Boone" had gotten bugged after the "Kill Benny" quest. He was in my party - but he wasn't there. I was apparently not alone in having this bug. I had to load back in time to BEFORE killing Benny and tell Boone that "we need to go our seperate ways." That way I don't get that bug later on. Then, Caesar's Legion at the camp no longer attacked me. I feel like I'm playing Back To The Future here. But Isn't that game some 2 months off?
Anyways, there are so many bugs in this game that it would take an entire essay to write about all of them. Don't take mine or Shamus' word for it. If you really want specifics, check the Bethesda forums, and you can read a myriad of rich bug reports. It's the buggiest game I've played in recent memory. The other being Alpha Protocol... But Alpha Protocol was a mediocre game anyhow - so it wasn't much of a loss that it was bugged.
However, when Fallout NV is this buggy - a game on the precipice of greatness - then it perturbs me greatly.
Bethesda and/or Obsidian will never get any more pre-orders from me. I'm a fool for even buying into the concept of a pre-order. Pre-orders almost guarantee that the game will be shitty upon release. They attempt to goad us into pre-ordering by offering us cheap trinkets like "special items." Corporate shareholders who are in it for the short haul must love this business model. Early bursts in the revenues and stock value, pre-empting any critical journalism which could potentially depress the stock price. This business model splits the risk faced by publishers.
I notice this trend is growing. Less emphasis will be put on Quality Assurance, and more emphasis on Marketing.
Now for something completely OT.
I'm not a grammar nazi at heart. I usually don't criticize people's usage of words - be it pretentious fancy words or anything stupid. A varied vocabulary means we get less bored to read the same meanings over again. But it irks me when a grammar nazi doesn't do his research. Turns me into one.
The usage of "edifies," although uncommon, is not incorrect here. You know the word "edifice"? Just another word for a large building that has been "edified" (established). To edify can indeed mean to "educate morally or spiritually." But there are 3 other usages for the word. In fact the primary meaning of the word "edify" is to "to establish; to improve; to strengthen". All 3 of these work perfectly in the context of "edifies one of the arguments." Strengthens or improves one of the arguments... etc.
So PLEASE - if you have a gripe about a word sounding pretentious - then just say that. Don't make a fool out of yourself and try to prove it means something which it doesn't. I don't like myself when I become a grammar nazi.
http://www.english-test.net/toefl/vocabulary/words/020/toefl-definitions.php#edify
I have a brand new computer (just 3 weeks old). Built it myself into an Antec Nine Hundred Two cabinet.
Motherboard: Asus P6X58D-E
CPU: Core i7 950 3.06Ghz
GPU: Asus ENGTX480 (Geforce GTX 480)
RAM: Corsair Dominator 6gb ram
SSD: 120gb OCZ Vertex (not using the old magnetic disc HDD dinosaurs any more)
BRW: LG Bluray burner
PSU: Seasonic M12 700W
I have all the latest drivers installed. Latest DirectX.
All other games work nigh on perfectly.
In the game, I press New Game. Upon finishing the introduction video to FNV, I am immediately greeted by "Fallout_NV.EXE has stopped working." Classic CTD.
After 4 days of playing other non-broken games while waiting for a response/patch from Bethesda/Obsidian, I start researching. Apparently I have to use a DLL file that was made by some fan in 2008 for Fallout 3. d3d9.dll - you place it in the FNV directory.
When the game starts - it tells me it's readjusted my graphics settings. I look into the Options, and I notice that FNV now believes my GPU is a GeForce 7900GS. Clever little ID spoofing trick done by this dll. The game suddenly works pretty well, although it runs an inferior shader model for DirectX 9 - so the graphics look like clay poo. I don't mind that. I just mind the fact that Bethesda has never gotten their corporate finger out of their asses and owned up to fix this problem in the 2 years that have passed since Fallout 3! They have had TWO years to fix a game breaking problem (for some) that has been circumvented by a fan-made DLL file. I think that is scandalous.
After 30.5 hours of game time, I've finished the game. It was certainly fun enough at times. Brilliant even. But I'm growing tired of the Oblivion engine and its design limitations. Does it have some other bugs? Certainly. WARNING: Spoilers ahead. It has the occasional CTD which has only occured when loading a new area. I've been lucky in that I've frequently saved. The save-game corruption issue happens specifically in the REPCONN facility mission known as "Come Fly With Me." If you're unlucky enough to have gotten that issue - all subsequent savegames will become corrupted as well. Autosaves' own worst nightmare. But I somehow manoeuvred around that problem by some strategic saving and alternate routes. There was some other bugs as well. Branching quests accumulating into branching bugs. After I dispatched Benny in The Top's - as I left the building, my accomplice "Boone" was nowhere to be found. So I thought he had skedaddled, and tried to hire another goon. But he said "you've already got company." I was annoyed, but I didn't think more about it. Until I went to see Caesar ("Render Unto Caesar"). Now is when a bug from the Benny quest piled up on top of the next (unrelated) quest. As I was approaching the camp of Caesar's Legion, I showed him my "Mark of Caesar" - giving me free passage to see Caesar. Yet, they always ended up attacking. After some researching, I learned that it's because my accomplice "Boone" had gotten bugged after the "Kill Benny" quest. He was in my party - but he wasn't there. I was apparently not alone in having this bug. I had to load back in time to BEFORE killing Benny and tell Boone that "we need to go our seperate ways." That way I don't get that bug later on. Then, Caesar's Legion at the camp no longer attacked me. I feel like I'm playing Back To The Future here. But Isn't that game some 2 months off?
Anyways, there are so many bugs in this game that it would take an entire essay to write about all of them. Don't take mine or Shamus' word for it. If you really want specifics, check the Bethesda forums, and you can read a myriad of rich bug reports. It's the buggiest game I've played in recent memory. The other being Alpha Protocol... But Alpha Protocol was a mediocre game anyhow - so it wasn't much of a loss that it was bugged.
However, when Fallout NV is this buggy - a game on the precipice of greatness - then it perturbs me greatly.
Bethesda and/or Obsidian will never get any more pre-orders from me. I'm a fool for even buying into the concept of a pre-order. Pre-orders almost guarantee that the game will be shitty upon release. They attempt to goad us into pre-ordering by offering us cheap trinkets like "special items." Corporate shareholders who are in it for the short haul must love this business model. Early bursts in the revenues and stock value, pre-empting any critical journalism which could potentially depress the stock price. This business model splits the risk faced by publishers.
I notice this trend is growing. Less emphasis will be put on Quality Assurance, and more emphasis on Marketing.
Now for something completely OT.
OTTraderJimmy said:
I'm not a grammar nazi at heart. I usually don't criticize people's usage of words - be it pretentious fancy words or anything stupid. A varied vocabulary means we get less bored to read the same meanings over again. But it irks me when a grammar nazi doesn't do his research. Turns me into one.
The usage of "edifies," although uncommon, is not incorrect here. You know the word "edifice"? Just another word for a large building that has been "edified" (established). To edify can indeed mean to "educate morally or spiritually." But there are 3 other usages for the word. In fact the primary meaning of the word "edify" is to "to establish; to improve; to strengthen". All 3 of these work perfectly in the context of "edifies one of the arguments." Strengthens or improves one of the arguments... etc.
So PLEASE - if you have a gripe about a word sounding pretentious - then just say that. Don't make a fool out of yourself and try to prove it means something which it doesn't. I don't like myself when I become a grammar nazi.
http://www.english-test.net/toefl/vocabulary/words/020/toefl-definitions.php#edify
Contract Design Work (any media) 101: Keep in close contact with your contractor and get approval on items before you burn a ton of time and money developing said items. This goes double for objectionable items when you are working with a publisher that has the reputation of being prudish.Therumancer said:
If this was really the cause, it's still Obsidian's fault for not getting the go-ahead on those items they wanted to include.
This goes hand in hand with something I've experienced recently as far as people defending developers for no reason. This time, it being EA Sports and their not patching/releasing a roster update for NHL 11 until the game is out for about 2 months. One guy went as far as to say "The developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts" They're fixing a broken game mode and rosters that aren't even up to date on the summer happenings out of the good of their hearts? No. I'm pretty sure they have to do that because I spent $60 on their game.
OT: I've been waiting on getting New Vegas for exactly these reasons, waiting for the patch to hit consoles.
OT: I've been waiting on getting New Vegas for exactly these reasons, waiting for the patch to hit consoles.
I've used similar Whedonesque language devices in the past, but I usually use "big mean poopy-face."USSR said:You're picking on Obsidian! I love their games and you're just a big mean hater-face.
I just found my new troll insult.
Thank you
This ain't debate class. I am well within my rights to bring the language down to a level that fits the argument as it is presented.
Does some portly Irish guy on the internet really have to explain why "It worked for me. You're biased and mean! PC gaming thrives on the consumer knowing as little about the product as possible." is a wholly irrelevant and childish response?
its not just me its working for though. Like i said, not a single person i know ((including the 30 people who go up to the local timbuktu)) has complained about it being a mess. Most of the people who are having problems tend to be more theyer fault then that of the games.Razhem said:
So 1/30 people had theyer memory wiped? amazing! That means the game is completely broken and the company messed up! Most of the time when i do hear about bugs from this game it is minor. "Floating dogs", "People missing", "texture bad". I dont think any of those are game breakers.
it is an amazing game. And people are freaking out about the "terrible bugs" that ruin it. But i cant say any bugs ive seen, or heard of would ruin the game.
So what if your game data was erased? Play the game again. Its not like you have 200 hours on a single save.
Wow, those dumbasses actually read your column Shamus? Do I feel sorry for you. NV has many plenty of bugs but not all ruin the experience. But a game that crashes every few hours isn't exactly what I'd call a stable game.
The buggy FO3 engine probably deserves a lot of the blame but it's still an amazing game.
The buggy FO3 engine probably deserves a lot of the blame but it's still an amazing game.
Great game with that big but. Only had one issue so far (about 10 hours in) but it was a bit of a mood breaker.
I got myself to a railway tunnel south of the Nellis AFB, got in, picked my way through the ghouls and mines, only to see a turn off and fall through the floor. After several attempts to jump the vortex I gave up and continued to the end of the tunnel - and gotten eaten by a Deathclaw.
I got myself to a railway tunnel south of the Nellis AFB, got in, picked my way through the ghouls and mines, only to see a turn off and fall through the floor. After several attempts to jump the vortex I gave up and continued to the end of the tunnel - and gotten eaten by a Deathclaw.
I can totally understand bashing a game for bugs...even giving a "Do Not Buy" rating due to excessive bugs...but this all seems a bit unfair. Yes, the PC version hardly works at all...but the 360 and PS3 versions seem to work great. If you want to bash a game because it works poorly on a platform that very few gamers still use, that is fine; but then you have to move on and talk about the game itself (even if you just complain the whole time)...because it works great on the PS3 and the 360, and that is where it will be played the most.
kouriichi said:
"I like shoddy products" is my whole conclusion from you. 1/30 is a horrible statistic of failure, an acceptable one is when we are talking about 1/1000 at the very least. If you can't see that, it just means you are too far up your ass to even notice that there is a world around you. Fun case, if I have a car that 1/30 have shoddy breaks, but if you don't have the break problem, the car works like a dream, it's still a car with shoddy breaks.
Also, aside from broken save files (WHICH SHOULD NEVER BE A PROBLEM IN A PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT, EVER), there are crashes to desktop and even crashes on the home console versions. Really mate, if you can still put a conceited smile and just say "it didn't happen to me, so fuck everybody else" then not much else I can say. I can only hope you get the next Fallout sequel and get it working wonky on you so you get the bloody point of the whole article. The costumer demands quality, if the costumer does not demand quality, quality drops. It is specially sad in this case since the game quality itself is amazing and is brought down by technical quality.
Another thing, games should NOT need patches. Patches should only exist in MMO games unless they exist to add content and to tweak power scales, not not avoid game crippling bugs. I find it bullshit that the answer form some people is "Hey, no problem, just wait with your bugged mess for a month till a patch comes out and pray it doesn't bring more problems".
I remember when games used to have to specify what brands of hardware they would work on. I remember when you used to need a reasonable amount of technical knowledge to even understand what the system requirements for some games actually meant. This is actually getting a lot better and continues to do so every year.Vestsao said:
This is partially because of growing monopolies/oligopolies in the computing world, and partially because the industry is just learning to do things better as generations of computers come and go. Still it would be better if companies didn't have to try and support 3 or more different generations of Windows, etc.
Rants like the previous article tend to draw out the fanboi. It's like throwing a steak into a tiger pit.
i love the game but there is no denying that it has issues i have had saves go corrupt, quests get bugged out etc etc, but i had the same issues in fallout 3 to, the gamebro engine is a piece of shit period. it was a piece of shit for oblivion, it was a piece of shit for fallout 3 and it is a piece of shit for fallout new vegas.
not that obsidian has had a glowing track record for bug free games but i think this time it is mostly down on the engine that bethesda stuck them with.
far as the well bioware makes mostly bug free games, well alot more less buggy than bethesda or obsidian, but bioware makes linear rpgs, and bethesda and obsidian nv makes sandbox rpgs. linear rpgs have a huge advantage there is only one way to go one way to advance and the games are paced and scripted to work under specific conditions. a sandbox game is open by its very nature it has alot more going on and has to account for alot more scripting and possibilities period, sandbox games always are going to have more issues than the go down the hall turn left enter boss room fight rpgs.
on a plus note beth has taken sole possession of id's latest engine they are making rage with and that bodes well for the next gen of fallouts and etc. since id has been making great engines for years with full support mod tools and stable engines to boot. so the gamebro engine is in its last throws.
not that obsidian has had a glowing track record for bug free games but i think this time it is mostly down on the engine that bethesda stuck them with.
far as the well bioware makes mostly bug free games, well alot more less buggy than bethesda or obsidian, but bioware makes linear rpgs, and bethesda and obsidian nv makes sandbox rpgs. linear rpgs have a huge advantage there is only one way to go one way to advance and the games are paced and scripted to work under specific conditions. a sandbox game is open by its very nature it has alot more going on and has to account for alot more scripting and possibilities period, sandbox games always are going to have more issues than the go down the hall turn left enter boss room fight rpgs.
on a plus note beth has taken sole possession of id's latest engine they are making rage with and that bodes well for the next gen of fallouts and etc. since id has been making great engines for years with full support mod tools and stable engines to boot. so the gamebro engine is in its last throws.
Wow, these are some deeply worrisome bugs.
Floating objects? Bad textures? I can forgive those. Testers could just have missed Object #40913.
Broken quests? Collision problems? Unexpected balance problems? I'll wait for the patch. This is worthy of blame, but not of avoiding the game entirely.
Save file corruption? Hard crashes with no warning? Deal-breaker. If I wanted to lose hours of progress with no recourse, I'd boot up Demon's Souls.
Floating objects? Bad textures? I can forgive those. Testers could just have missed Object #40913.
Broken quests? Collision problems? Unexpected balance problems? I'll wait for the patch. This is worthy of blame, but not of avoiding the game entirely.
Save file corruption? Hard crashes with no warning? Deal-breaker. If I wanted to lose hours of progress with no recourse, I'd boot up Demon's Souls.
From what I've heard it was released buggy on purpose to peeve pirates and most bugs are going to be fixed in a patch later on.
I think I like this line, and am going to use it in my own work.Suicidal Hobo said:
I only turned in a bad product to deter would-be thieves. All that struggling and braying and crying in the corner I've been doing for the past year or so was just to cover my masterful plan.