Its going to be the second time Sony managed to be ahead by not really doing anything, just letting the competition make their own messToadfish1 said:Oh well.
All aboard the Morpheus train!
Its going to be the second time Sony managed to be ahead by not really doing anything, just letting the competition make their own messToadfish1 said:Oh well.
All aboard the Morpheus train!
crowdfunding backers aren't investors. You can't expect a financial return on the money you've put in as that is in no way shape or form the nature of your relationship with the company. It's just a pre-order, but earlier than those have historically been offered. There won't be any money payed out to backers.wulfy42 said:I pretty much called this reaction, and as I said yesterday, the best solution is to simply pass on the "profit" at least in some small way to the original backers.
2.5 mill was collected, pay back 25 mill (10x the original investment) to the backers, and thank them for helping to get the project where it is today.
That still leaves a HUGE profit for the company, and would probably help prevent so many angry backers.
That is the right thing to do (and no, i'm not a backer).
It's not mandatory, nothing legally says they need to do it etc, but heck, due to the efforts of the backers, they just made freaking 2 BILLION dollars. Even if you only count the 400 million for now, you still would have a massive profit for every single employee....even if you tossed 25 mill to the backers as a thank you.
Doubt it'll happen, but it's what I would do.
inferior platform, yes, but knockoff? Sorry, Morpheus had a working prototype two years earlier than Rift did.. If anything, Rift would be the knockoff.ShakerSilver said:Yes, let's all get hyped for the cheap knock-off VR headset that runs on closed platform with inferior specs.Toadfish1 said:Oh well.
All aboard the Morpheus train!
Not all corporations are evil. Facebook is however. And yes, i dont buy anything from facebook nor do i use it. whats your point?YodaUnleashed said:but its the whole 'coporation is evil' shtick that annoys me - either stop buying anything funded or produced by a corporation or stop lumping them all together and those that make deals with them as 'sell-outs'. Many don't seem to have noticed but corporations tend to run a lot of things around this little place we call Earth. Its certainly not perfect, but it ain't no 19th century either; corporations are not the spawn of satan.
actually, they are entitled in ALL of that money. thats because they invested in a company, and then sold the company, except the CEO of the company kept the money.Tanklover said:No one who backed them in kickstarter is entitled to a cent of that money, are you people crazy?.
No, they didn't invest. They pre-ordered an OR Devkit 1. That is all. They may have put money in, but they got what they paid for back out. End of.Strazdas said:actually, they are entitled in ALL of that money. thats because they invested in a company, and then sold the company, except the CEO of the company kept the money.
You call them valid points, others would say he was just trying to justify the sellout. Sellout is exactly what it was, literally. He sold the company. Usually the people whose money you used to build that company would get a cut, but because he used Kickstarter he gets ALL that money himself, split among whoever is a stakeholder at Oculus.Kingjackl said:Those people ran the risk when they Kickstarted Oculus Rift in the first place. They're entitled to their opinions (vapid as they are), but it's best to leave the actual creative and business decisions to the people who know what they're talking about.
See that Reddit thread with Palmer Luckey trying to reason with complainers by making valid points from an informed position and getting only "YOU SOLD OUT!" and "FACEBOOK IS THE EVIL!" in response.
^^this.Amir Kondori said:You call them valid points, others would say he was just trying to justify the sellout. Sellout is exactly what it was, literally. He sold the company. Usually the people whose money you used to build that company would get a cut, but because he used Kickstarter he gets ALL that money himself, split among whoever is a stakeholder at Oculus.Kingjackl said:Those people ran the risk when they Kickstarted Oculus Rift in the first place. They're entitled to their opinions (vapid as they are), but it's best to leave the actual creative and business decisions to the people who know what they're talking about.
See that Reddit thread with Palmer Luckey trying to reason with complainers by making valid points from an informed position and getting only "YOU SOLD OUT!" and "FACEBOOK IS THE EVIL!" in response.
Backers have every right to be mad as hell about it.
I agree in principle, but crowdfunding doesn't make one an investor or a shareholder. I guess the best term would be a 'patron', since it's paying to support a creative concept, not investing in a business venture that they expect to see a return from.Amir Kondori said:You call them valid points, others would say he was just trying to justify the sellout. Sellout is exactly what it was, literally. He sold the company. Usually the people whose money you used to build that company would get a cut, but because he used Kickstarter he gets ALL that money himself, split among whoever is a stakeholder at Oculus.Kingjackl said:Those people ran the risk when they Kickstarted Oculus Rift in the first place. They're entitled to their opinions (vapid as they are), but it's best to leave the actual creative and business decisions to the people who know what they're talking about.
See that Reddit thread with Palmer Luckey trying to reason with complainers by making valid points from an informed position and getting only "YOU SOLD OUT!" and "FACEBOOK IS THE EVIL!" in response.
Backers have every right to be mad as hell about it.
I imagine that it's less pure anger and more disillusionment which comes out as anger. The idealism of the indie and the crowd to undermine the large corporate structure is important to many of those who use kickstarter, much like the situation for those who deal in Bitcoins or supported the Ouya. To them it feels like they've been cheated even though they were not in the technical sense of the word.Andy Chalk said:I don't see how you (and a lot of other people) come to that conclusion. No Kickstarter backing means no product, which means no buyout - you can't have one without the other. And do you really expect companies like Oculus to attenuate their success to a level you find successful? You want it to be a hit so your money isn't wasted on a failed, dead-end product, but not so much of a hit that it'll attract bigger players with money to throw around?RJ 17 said:Well of course they're pissed off about this deal. Why the hell did they bother paying up with their own cash if some mega-corp like Facebook is just going to come in with $400 million anyways? That literally defeats the entire purpose behind crowdfunding, and essentially means that everyone that backed the Oculus just pissed (x) amount of money away.
People on Kickstarter paid to support the development of the headset in exchange for set rewards, which they will receive. Nothing has changed. So why the anger?
I'm sorry, did I miss the part where they promised people in the kickstarter that they would be giving them equity in exchange for 1$? I don't think so. You're backing them so they have the money to develop the product which they obviously didn't have money for, and you would get a reward depending on the amount of money you gave them. Even if you gave them a million dollars you wouldn't be entitled to equity or money from them once they started making a profit and or sold the company, if you want to invest in hopes of buying part of a startup then kickstarter is the wrong place to do it. What sort of entitlement bs is this?.Strazdas said:actually, they are entitled in ALL of that money. thats because they invested in a company, and then sold the company, except the CEO of the company kept the money.Tanklover said:No one who backed them in kickstarter is entitled to a cent of that money, are you people crazy?.
Because fuck corporations that sell us things. Fuck all of them.Andy Chalk said:I don't see how you (and a lot of other people) come to that conclusion. No Kickstarter backing means no product, which means no buyout - you can't have one without the other. And do you really expect companies like Oculus to attenuate their success to a level you find successful? You want it to be a hit so your money isn't wasted on a failed, dead-end product, but not so much of a hit that it'll attract bigger players with money to throw around?RJ 17 said:Well of course they're pissed off about this deal. Why the hell did they bother paying up with their own cash if some mega-corp like Facebook is just going to come in with $400 million anyways? That literally defeats the entire purpose behind crowdfunding, and essentially means that everyone that backed the Oculus just pissed (x) amount of money away.
People on Kickstarter paid to support the development of the headset in exchange for set rewards, which they will receive. Nothing has changed. So why the anger?
Pretty much exactly my thoughts on the matter.Andy Chalk said:I don't see how you (and a lot of other people) come to that conclusion. No Kickstarter backing means no product, which means no buyout - you can't have one without the other. And do you really expect companies like Oculus to attenuate their success to a level you find successful? You want it to be a hit so your money isn't wasted on a failed, dead-end product, but not so much of a hit that it'll attract bigger players with money to throw around?RJ 17 said:Well of course they're pissed off about this deal. Why the hell did they bother paying up with their own cash if some mega-corp like Facebook is just going to come in with $400 million anyways? That literally defeats the entire purpose behind crowdfunding, and essentially means that everyone that backed the Oculus just pissed (x) amount of money away.
People on Kickstarter paid to support the development of the headset in exchange for set rewards, which they will receive. Nothing has changed. So why the anger?
Yes, crowdfunding does not make you an investor, that was my point. As for your theory that "patrons" should WANT a sellout, well just ask the people who pledged to make Oculus a reality how they feel about it.Kingjackl said:I agree in principle, but crowdfunding doesn't make one an investor or a shareholder. I guess the best term would be a 'patron', since it's paying to support a creative concept, not investing in a business venture that they expect to see a return from.Amir Kondori said:You call them valid points, others would say he was just trying to justify the sellout. Sellout is exactly what it was, literally. He sold the company. Usually the people whose money you used to build that company would get a cut, but because he used Kickstarter he gets ALL that money himself, split among whoever is a stakeholder at Oculus.Kingjackl said:Those people ran the risk when they Kickstarted Oculus Rift in the first place. They're entitled to their opinions (vapid as they are), but it's best to leave the actual creative and business decisions to the people who know what they're talking about.
See that Reddit thread with Palmer Luckey trying to reason with complainers by making valid points from an informed position and getting only "YOU SOLD OUT!" and "FACEBOOK IS THE EVIL!" in response.
Backers have every right to be mad as hell about it.
Believe it or not, a patron should want the person or organisation they're backing to sell out. If you support someone, you'd want them to make money and achieve success from their idea. In this case, he hasn't even traded in any creative control for his two billion dollars; Oculus development hasn't changed as of yet, it's just owned by Facebook now.