Official Discussion about the new Forum Rules

[AbyssalSanhedrin]

Despite my lowly join-date and post count I've been around these forums for far longer than most and I agree with this. I would never dare enter a serious discussion here for for of seemingly arbitrary moderation. The age restriction of 13 for a website/forum based around media that is often rated 15 (UK) or higher seems counter-productive. You advertise and advocate adult media every day yet penalize people for humourous but adult themed content all the time (I believe it was SwollenGoat who made a comment about blowjobs that got him/her warned, but it was next to a glowing "overview" of CoD Black Ops, an "adult" game). The whole thing seems hypocritical and mis-managed at every level. Don't even get me started on "You'll be probation-ed for criticising ANYTHING we do".

In eager anticipation of my suspension...

Abyssal...

You're not gonna get a suspension for that. Ever. You're assuming that the moderators are dictator like people who punish everything that offends them. This assumption is widely false.

The use of adult themes differ. Black Ops is a mature rated game, but it isn't porn. There is a major difference between the two. The moderators don't allow us to talk about any game that is rated Mature (especially one as popular as Black Ops), but they won't condone things such as flaming or sexually explicit material. You won't get probation for criticizing either. You'll get probation for flaming.

Saying "You fucking stupid" is flaming. Saying "I don't agree with you and here is why...' is still arguing, but is a very calm and controlled way of doing it.

Of course, but when a deliberately worded thread title is presented (specifically aimed at other male users no less) regarding what most teenage boys want from their girlfriends at christmas who wouldn't predict something sexual to arise eventually, especially given the psuedo-wordly cynicism that is so prevalent here. How can one advocate casual, random, age-restricted, albeit simulated violence to 13 year-olds yet decry normal, consensual (provided they are of age) acts of sexuality? Banning sexual content yet being a conduit of and for violent content just seems like a double standard to me.

Both of these things are a part of the real world and if a supposedly "mature" community cannot discuss them equally then true freedom of expression can never be attained. Add to that an ostensibly arbitrary, case-by-case style of moderation and I stand by my original statement, I will never argue seriously any topic (with the exception of this one) on these boards because I just don't know where I stand and will be reduced to the same smug, self-satisfied yet deliberately vague wisecracking that plagues these forums.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Despite my lowly join-date and post count I've been around these forums for far longer than most and I agree with this. I would never dare enter a serious discussion here for for of seemingly arbitrary moderation. The age restriction of 13 for a website/forum based around media that is often rated 15 (UK) or higher seems counter-productive. You advertise and advocate adult media every day yet penalize people for humourous but adult themed content all the time (I believe it was SwollenGoat who made a comment about blowjobs that got him/her warned, but it was next to a glowing "overview" of CoD Black Ops, an "adult" game). The whole thing seems hypocritical and mis-managed at every level. Don't even get me started on "You'll be probation-ed for criticising ANYTHING we do".

In eager anticipation of my suspension...

Abyssal...

You're not gonna get a suspension for that. Ever. You're assuming that the moderators are dictator like people who punish everything that offends them. This assumption is widely false.

The use of adult themes differ. Black Ops is a mature rated game, but it isn't porn. There is a major difference between the two. The moderators don't allow us to talk about any game that is rated Mature (especially one as popular as Black Ops), but they won't condone things such as flaming or sexually explicit material. You won't get probation for criticizing either. You'll get probation for flaming.

Saying "You fucking stupid" is flaming. Saying "I don't agree with you and here is why...' is still arguing, but is a very calm and controlled way of doing it.

Of course, but when a deliberately worded thread title is presented (specifically aimed at other male users no less) regarding what most teenage boys want from their girlfriends at christmas who wouldn't predict something sexual to arise eventually, especially given the psuedo-wordly cynicism that is so prevalent here. How can one advocate casual, random, age-restricted, albeit simulated violence to 13 year-olds yet decry normal, consensual (provided they are of age) acts of sexuality? Banning sexual content yet being a conduit of and for violent content just seems like a double standard to me.

Both of these things are a part of the real world and if a supposedly "mature" community cannot discuss them equally then true freedom of expression can never be attained. Add to that an ostensibly arbitrary, case-by-case style of moderation and I stand by my original statement, I will never argue seriously any topic (with the exception of this one) on these boards because I just don't know where I stand and will be reduced to the same smug, self-satisfied yet deliberately vague wisecracking that plagues these forums.

Every government in the United States,England, Canada and several other countries of importance judge sexual content to be worst then violence. That is why porn is not allowed to be sold to minors, but a vendor can sell tickets to the latest slasher film to a dad and his 12 year old child. The snarky responses you see are based solely off of immature users, so you're not gonna be seeing me shed a tear for them if they get punished. This is a forum based on a company who makes an online video game magazine. We wouldn't condone threats of violence against other people, but there is nothing wrong with discussing violence that occurred in a virtual world. It doesn't harm anyone and it most certainly should be free to talk about. Besides, Sex is often talked about on these boards. The problem is the few young immature users who come in and ruin it for everyone.

The site has a 13 minimum age to join. That doesn't mean the content is restricted to PG-13, it means the site is restricted to anyone under 13.

 

[Marik2]

I concur. So many passive-aggressive asses on there.

Anyway, the new rules seem good- I was getting annoyed with all of the anger here.

If you slip up once in some source 5 people will quote you and tear you to pieces by using smartass arguments.

And yes I was tired of all the anger of "I lost faith in humanity" threads.

 

[Exosus]

Likewise, the mere fact that there's some restrictions you could lift doesn't necessarily make it a good idea either. Honestly I am a bit puzzled as to how exactly you feel your freedom of speech limited on here, as only the most bizzarely distasteful and explicit topics are outright banned for discussion. In all other instances, it's ultimately a question of how you handle the subject. Are you going to tell me that you lament the fact you're not allowed to personally attack other users because of their viewpoints or opinions? Or use bad language in extreme quantities? Or crack hugely disrespectful jokes? Because those are really the only things I have ever seen people being punished for in discussions. I'm not familiar with the nature of your supposed crimes so I'm erring on the side of caution. At any rate it would be interesting to know just what "rhetorical tactics" you feel hemmed about using. Call me prejudiced, but since the most basic guideline in our code of conduct is "Don't be a jerk", and you're showing a fairly fundamental aversion towards it, I have this idea in my head about the kind of behaviour you'd like to see officially sanctioned.

You were wise to err on the side of caution. I'm not going to start listing off things that have gotten me probation (because the last time I did that I got probation) but let us suffice to say these are the sorts of things I would and have said to my grandmother without her being in any way hurt or offended. Basically anything which takes a hard line on any issue (especially a controversial issue on which the notoriously-liberal Escapist holds a fairly unified opinion) and defends it with enough passion to rouse so much as a whimper of reciprocal interest has gotten me probation in the past. That's why I have such an anemic post count in relation to my time here - when you have a 1:5-1:10 probationost ratio you eventually get tired of it. The only time I post now is when I see something in the sidebar when I come here to watch a video and can be certain it isn't interesting enough for the mods to kill.

As to the kind of speech I'm suggesting, forums I've run in the past had only one rule: Nothing which breaks American law. So all that other speech? Yeah, that's the kind of speech I'm suggesting.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

i'd still like to know what changed...

 

[maddawg IAJI]

i'd still like to know what changed...

Nothing really and if you read through the thread you would see that question has already been answered.

They didn't change the rules, they updated them to prevent loopholes. Nothing on that list is new or intended to be new. Even the 'Don't be a jerk' rule has always been used by Moderators.

Likewise, the mere fact that there's some restrictions you could lift doesn't necessarily make it a good idea either. Honestly I am a bit puzzled as to how exactly you feel your freedom of speech limited on here, as only the most bizzarely distasteful and explicit topics are outright banned for discussion. In all other instances, it's ultimately a question of how you handle the subject. Are you going to tell me that you lament the fact you're not allowed to personally attack other users because of their viewpoints or opinions? Or use bad language in extreme quantities? Or crack hugely disrespectful jokes? Because those are really the only things I have ever seen people being punished for in discussions. I'm not familiar with the nature of your supposed crimes so I'm erring on the side of caution. At any rate it would be interesting to know just what "rhetorical tactics" you feel hemmed about using. Call me prejudiced, but since the most basic guideline in our code of conduct is "Don't be a jerk", and you're showing a fairly fundamental aversion towards it, I have this idea in my head about the kind of behaviour you'd like to see officially sanctioned.

You were wise to err on the side of caution. I'm not going to start listing off things that have gotten me probation (because the last time I did that I got probation) but let us suffice to say these are the sorts of things I would and have said to my grandmother without her being in any way hurt or offended. Basically anything which takes a hard line on any issue (especially a controversial issue on which the notoriously-liberal Escapist holds a fairly unified opinion) and defends it with enough passion to rouse so much as a whimper of reciprocal interest has gotten me probation in the past. That's why I have such an anemic post count in relation to my time here - when you have a 1:5-1:10 probationost ratio you eventually get tired of it. The only time I post now is when I see something in the sidebar when I come here to watch a video and can be certain it isn't interesting enough for the mods to kill.

As to the kind of speech I'm suggesting, forums I've run in the past had only one rule: Nothing which breaks American law. So all that other speech? Yeah, that's the kind of speech I'm suggesting.

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

 

[Metal Brother]

Great rules.

I participate in a variety of online forums and moderate a few more. Some are community forums like this one, others are professional or technical forums. I believe that these rules are very well written and could apply to just about any online community site out there. Great work!

 

[Exosus]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

It's not a difficult system to understand, but it is flawed. If they only mod things that get reported, isn't it really the users who are policing themselves then? I don't understand why it's so hard for the mods to peruse the forums with relying solely on the report system. If a place that moves as fast as 4chan can keep up better than this place, there's something wrong.

And if the 'pist wants to outlaw sarcasm and smartassedness, fine. But A) I think it's sad that we have to cater to the oversensitive types and B) I don't get how a site can have Zero Punctuation as it's main draw and tell us snark is bad.

How can it be a flawed system? Your local police department uses the same one. They respond to calls (reports) given from the community (The user base). The Police don't see everything, they often rely on us to help them stop crimes and to report them as well and yes, I know its a little tasteless to compare the mods to the men in blue, but its one of the better examples of the system working. With a large user base such as ours, nothing really ever goes unnoticed here.

Sarcasm and Smartassness doesn't mean you have to insult people and if we're dealing with ZP, then the phrase, "do as I say, not as I do." comes to mind. In this case, we follow the rules the staff members tell us, we don't imitate the shows they choose to back.

 

[Exosus]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

I have little doubt that it is considered a smartass remark in itself. Somehow I, and moreover the rest of the thread, are managing not to bleed out on the floor as a result. This follow-up smartass remark, however, will undoubtedly be the killing blow, the death knell of enjoyment the forum has long been avoiding.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

I have little doubt that it is considered a smartass remark in itself. Somehow I, and moreover the rest of the thread, are managing not to bleed out on the floor as a result. This follow-up smartass remark, however, will undoubtedly be the killing blow, the death knell of enjoyment the forum has long been avoiding.

Funny, I seem to enjoy being here. The rules haven't change either, the Mods have been punishing with the unwritten "Don't be a Jerk" rule since the forum was founded and I'd say they've only gotten more and more lenient.

And you see your own flaw in there. I found what you said to be a smart-ass remark, you did not. Its a matter of perspective between the writer and the receiver. And please, cut the theatrics out, if you don't enjoy being here, then why are you here?

 

[maddawg IAJI]

How can it be a flawed system? Your local police department uses the same one. They respond to calls (reports) given from the community (The user base). The Police don't see everything, they often rely on us to help them stop crimes and to report them as well and yes, I know its a little tasteless to compare the mods to the men in blue, but its one of the better examples of the system working. With a large user base such as ours, nothing really ever goes unnoticed here.

Sarcasm and Smartassness doesn't mean you have to insult people and if we're dealing with ZP, then the phrase, "do as I say, not as I do." comes to mind. In this case, we follow the rules the staff members tell us, we don't imitate the shows they choose to back.

Eh, I see your point but just because a system is used in more than one place doesn't mean it's not necessarily flawed. The part of that I do have to disagree with is:

With a large user base such as ours, nothing really ever goes unnoticed here.

I see so much stuff that is downright insulting that goes unremarked (probably because whoever got insulted didn't cry and hit the 'report' button when their precious feelings got hurt...on the internet <_<) when seemingly inocuous comments get dinged. Again, while I'd prefer they not be so strict, if they want to-fine-but with strict rules you need stricter moderation. You can't expect people to follow a stricter regiment than the people in charge enforce. It leads to confusion and frustration.

And if the site says they don't want us to post sex jokes and what not 'because it's not appropriate for the children', how does that work with the videos then? It seems downright hypocritical. My words are inappropriate but Yahtzee's aren't? How are the kids being corrupted by my speech not even more screwed up by ZP? 'Doing as I say, not as I do' is a shitty way to run anything where you're trying to influence someone's behaviour.

People on the forums don't look at Yahtzee as a role-model, if they do, they don't belong here in the first place. Forum users look at the older members for guidance on how to act while here. If everyone followed Yahtzee's way of debating, this entire forum would be made up of making dick jokes.

Also, just because the person doesn't get probation doesn't mean they were not noticed. Moderators give out warnings first, then move to Probation. It depends on what was said before hand, what that user has done in the past and when was the last time he received a warning.

Finally, the rules aren't stricter. I don't know how many times I need to say this, they are the same rules we originally followed. The Don't Be a Jerk rule is just no longer unwritten.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Also, just because the person doesn't get probation doesn't mean they were not noticed. Moderators give out warnings first, then move to Probation. It depends on what was said before hand, what that user has done in the past and when was the last time he received a warning.

Please don't sit there and try to tell me the mods don't miss stuff. Two examples out of the many I've witnessed: Someone calling someone else a 'fucking idiot', which I think is definitely calling someone a jerk. So that post that doesn't get modded gets seen by people who then think "Well, THAT'S not modded so I should be able to say this" Which is why I think that checking only the report queue is a flawed system. If someone called me a fucking idiot, I wouldn't be so devastated I had to report him. And the other one I saw was a .gif of a pig getting it's head cut off with a chainsaw. Really?

Please link me those posts then and I will be sure the Moderators get them and deal with them. You're right, that kinda conduct shouldn't be missed, but shit happens. I won't try and deny that the mods don't miss some things, but they do require some assistance on our part to find these trolls and flamers. Its not a sign of weakness to hit the report button, but rather the ability to know when someone is losing their cool and that the conversation is just gonna go south.

Finally, the rules aren't stricter. I don't know how many times I need to say this, they are the same rules we originally followed. The Don't Be a Jerk rule is just no longer unwritten.

OK, here I worded my post badly. I'm fully aware that the rules are no stricter than they used to be. They are stricter than a lot of other sites though. And my point was merely that if you're going to have rules stricter than the norm, you need to enforce them equally as stringently or it looks bad. Again, while I'd prefer an opener forum the only things that bother me are the vagueness of the rules and the inconsistency of the moderation.

Again, the Mods do require some assistance from us in order to work to their fullest extent. If you spot an inconsistency in the moderation, for example, a post similar to another that got mod wrath, then feel free to take it up with a Moderator. I'm not gonna deny that inconsistency isn't a problem (They aren't a full time mod-team after all and they do have lives to live outside of this, especially around this time when they're all spending time with the families or finishing up Midterms in college.), which is why it is important to point them out.

Edit:

And you see your own flaw in there. I found what you said to be a smart-ass remark, you did not. Its a matter of perspective between the writer and the receiver. And please, cut the theatrics out, if you don't enjoy being here, then why are you here?

Yeah, double post. This is my point on the inconsistency with a vague rule like 'Don't be a jerk' There's obviously a difference of opinion on whether the post you speak of is offensive. I don't think it even warrants a second look, personally. So some find it offensive, some don't-leaving it to the mods to decide. Wouldn't it be nice to have it detailed out how far you can go with sarcasm so those of us who use it without malice know to tone it down some? I've been warned on some posts that I still have no idea what was offensive about them, so obviously my intent was not 'jerkish'.

The reason for the double post was so the user would get a notification that he was quoted. I'm not spamming a single post nor am I even addressing the same users. They're two separate posts, written by me next to one-another. I don't see a problem with that.

As for Sarcasm, it seems pretty black and white to me. Questioning the person's argument is fine, attacking the user them self is against the rules.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Please link me those posts then and I will be sure the Moderators get them and deal with them. You're right, that kinda conduct shouldn't be missed, but shit happens. I won't try and deny that the mods miss some things, but they do require some assistance on our part to find these trolls and flamers. Its not a sign of weakness to hit the report button, but rather the ability to know when someone is losing their cool and that the conversation is just gonna go south.

I'm not worried if they get moderated or not-just that moderation is done fairly. Well, not the 'idiot' one (it's one of about a bazillion such things in the RnP forum). Though even I can see that the pig .gif shouldn't be on this website. I didn't save the link, but it was in a thread about "things that always make you cry" from maybe a week ago? If you want to check it out, anyway. Also, there are plenty of things that get modded that clearly have no malice behind them that do get flagged. There was a recent thread about what a girl could give her boyfriend for Christmas. I jokingly said 'a blowjob'. Not that women are sluts, or that sex is all they're good for. Just that yes, a guy might just like a hummer for Christmas. Got a warning for that. I hardly consider that post of mine 'losing my cool' and as far as a conversation going downhill...well, not everyone considers sex jokes bad. So I'm assuming that the person who warned me read their own agenda of 'stamping out sexism' or whatever into my post without considering my actual intent. And in a case like that, I do feel it's a sign of weakness. While noone deserves to be abused on the internet, these are after all ONLY WORDS. If an opinion posted on a website forum wounds your psyche so badly, good luck in the real world. But that's just my opinion.

I think it has become a well known fact that the RnP forum is well known for that sort of stuff. And I'll try and find the thread and report it to the mod. Better late then never.

Sometimes humor is taken the wrong way and isn't seen as funny by everyone. I don't consider sex jokes bad, but I just think its tasteless. (I live with a 16 year old brother who thinks its funny to do 'Yo mom' jokes. Believe me when I say that the last thing I wanna hear at the moment is a joke similar to those.) Honestly, it may have been wise to give a serious non-joking answer as along with it.

Words do hold some power over people, and I don't think a lot of people realize that right away. Just don't do it, a lot of the people here aren't your drinking buddies or your friends and we all come from different backgrounds. I'm not saying everyone has to make nice nice with everyone else, I'm just suggesting that a little common courtesy can go a long way.

Again, the Mods do require some assistance from us in order to work to their fullest extent. If you spot an inconsistency in the moderation, for example, a post similar to another that got mod wrath, then feel free to take it up with a Moderator. I'm not gonna deny that inconsistency isn't a problem (They aren't a full time mod-team after all and they do have lives to live outside of this, especially around this time when they're all spending time with the families or finishing up Midterms in college.), which is why it is important to point them out.

Oh, I don't expect the mods to be perfect but here's what I don't understand: If the mods aren't catching most everything, they're either overworked or not paying enough attention. If they're not paying enough attention, either change the process or get rid of the mods that are slacking (which I do not see as a problem, by the way-I do believe our mods are great individually, just that their interpretations of appropriateness vary wildly from person to person). If they're overworked, why can't we get more mods? I think we have a tiny number of them for a site this size, personally. I mean, it's not like the 'pist has to pay them. Are there not enough forum members with the ability and desire to help out on this front?

I do hope you don't think I'm trying to pick a fight with you. I think it's good to hash these opinions out in this thread so the powers that be can see where everyone on both sides is coming from.

They go after what is reported and what they see. Its not a matter of being overworked or being lazy, its a matter of people not reporting. I won't tell you how often I've heard Cold Storage or Sevre say they've cleared the Mod Queue. They're going to whats being reported. If they miss something, then it wasn't in the queue. If it isn't in the queue, then no one is reporting it. If no one is reporting it, then no one cares that it exists and no one really has a right to complain about it.

Why would I think this is a fight. Its a debate and nothing more. I don't have any reason to hold malice against you, nor do I hate your views, I just offer what I believe are answers to it.

 

[Emissary Laito]

I'd just like to make a suggestion with regards to posts not being seen to be modded.

Saying "They may have been modded, its just you cant see it because it was only a warning" strikes me as bad design.
If I see something that has no indication of having been modded, I'll assume it hasn't been.
Its a reasonable assumption in my opinion.

So why not leave some sort of indicator?
Like, an edit at the bottom of said post with something like "This post received a warning -Mod".
That way it would give a much clearer indication of what's being punished and what isn't.

Just a thought.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

In regards to the recent thread where the OP asked if anybody had ever pirated a video game, can we get an official clarification, in the body of the forum rules themselves, stating whether or not it is against the rules to admit to having committed piracy without advocating it? The mod that locked the thread said it was against the rules to admit to it, period, but the current rules, as worded, don't even imply that, let alone state it outright. I'd rather not see anybody get in trouble for doing something that isn't against the rules as written, but is apparently against some unstated rule.

 

[lacktheknack]

The Escapist moderators will not punish you for an opinion. They will punish you if you add flames to that opinion. If you see a smartass comment someone made regarding your opinion, report it. Don't feed it.

I've been to other forums, the moderator teams on a lot of them don't work that well and will only punish the ones who do extreme trolling (I.E. posting gore pictures or porn). I'd rather have the moderators who actually stick to their guns to those who just let the forum burn.

I love that allowing people to express an opinion in a "smartass" way is "let[ting] the forum burn."

EDIT: Fixed a quotation mark.

Wouldn't this be considered a smartass remark in itself?

And moderators can't catch everything. They track based on reports, no reports, no mod wrath. Its not a difficult system to understand.

I have little doubt that it is considered a smartass remark in itself. Somehow I, and moreover the rest of the thread, are managing not to bleed out on the floor as a result. This follow-up smartass remark, however, will undoubtedly be the killing blow, the death knell of enjoyment the forum has long been avoiding.

If you're not enjoying yourself here, then GO AWAY and let the rest of us do so.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

In regards to the recent thread where the OP asked if anybody had ever pirated a video game, can we get an official clarification, in the body of the forum rules themselves, stating whether or not it is against the rules to admit to having committed piracy without advocating it? The mod that locked the thread said it was against the rules to admit to it, period, but the current rules, as worded, don't even imply that, let alone state it outright. I'd rather not see anybody get in trouble for doing something that isn't against the rules as written, but is apparently against some unstated rule.

The rules are the same, while rewritten. Admitting to committing an illicit act such as piracy is against forum rules, as it has been for a while now. Its also against the last rule, to use the forum appropriately. We're meant to discuss video games, not talk about how many we downloaded for free illegally.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

In regards to the recent thread where the OP asked if anybody had ever pirated a video game, can we get an official clarification, in the body of the forum rules themselves, stating whether or not it is against the rules to admit to having committed piracy without advocating it? The mod that locked the thread said it was against the rules to admit to it, period, but the current rules, as worded, don't even imply that, let alone state it outright. I'd rather not see anybody get in trouble for doing something that isn't against the rules as written, but is apparently against some unstated rule.

The rules are the same, while rewritten. Admitting to committing an illicit act such as piracy is against forum rules, as it has been for a while now. Its also against the last rule, to use the forum appropriately. We're meant to discuss video games, not talk about how many we downloaded for free illegally.

When the topic of piracy comes up, as it frequently does -- including a recent news article by John Funk himself, the discussion of which hit 10 pages -- sometimes it's important to be able to admit to it, especially if, say, you were a pirate when you were a kid, but you saw the error of your ways when you got older -- or, even better for an argument about piracy, when you got a job.

As for admitting to an illicit act being against the rules: no, it really isn't. Those rules are a contract between the escapist and its members. As written, and as agreed to, it is against the rules to advocate illegal or pornographic materials, which would include piracy, but it is not illegal to admit to them. The irony in this is that, by the letter of the law, it's okay to admit to piracy as long as you also admit that it's legally or morally wrong, but it's a bannable offense to admit to enjoying pornography, and thinking that it's a good thing -- which has already been clarified as being the opposite of what was intended. If we're going to have a rule enforced, it had better be the rule that's actually written, and not some arbitrary, unwritten rule, which isn't even equally enforced -- how many people have admitted to underage drinking or illegal drug use without getting mod wrath? Because those are actually criminal offenses, as opposed to the relatively minor civil offense of copyright infringement.

We really need to hear from an actual mod on this. You're the second user in two days that I've had this argument with, but I have yet to hear from a mod, despite this being the official thread for the new forum rules, and the other one being in response to an individual being reported for exactly this offense, meaning somebody should have seen the post after checking the mod queue.