ThrobbingEgo said:
President Moocow said:
So I ask you Escapists (or whatever you're called) do you know of any criminal lack of knowledge towards important people? Please post here so we may mock them.
I would agree with you, but last year in my ethics lecture, during a discussion, one girl thought bestiality should be immoral because of the possibility of a hybrid man-dog offspring. There are some truths a person should know, especially at a university level. Especially when these are the people who are going to be running things, affecting the lives of others.
First of all, could you please quote me properly? What's quoted and has my name on it is something that I would never say. ever.
Anyways, I agree that yes, there are some thing people should know but most of this thread is about facts that really don't fit that category. Here are the categories I see:
1. Cultural stuff: with the example of the fucking Beatles . I'm pretty sure that someone can do just fine in society without knowing about a rock band (except if they make a living by performing in a rock band). This thread is littered with "OMG this person didn't know [random cutural fact #324], that means they're ignorant!" (most of it being American culture, because apparently only American culture matters). Calling others ignorant because they don't know about cultural facts is rude and condescending (hence why I quoted the OP on that) and very self-centered. How would YOU like it if I started preaching about a certain band or TV show and then didn't acknowledge you as a human being until you know what I was talking about?
2. The random slip-ups.
If you seriously condemn someone for making a slip-up, you're an ass. I'm not naming any names.
3. Logical fallacies (faulty deductions that any sane person can make).
So what if she thinks bestiality creates hybrids? Are you going to fault her for using logic? She merely rationalized two facts:
1. sperm can fertilize an egg (which is true) and some
2. different mammals breeding can create hybrids (mule = donkey + horse).
Her only fallacy is assuming that all mammals create hybrids. Once (as I assume) she was told that human-dog hybrids can't happen, I'm sure she took it back. If you're going to criticize her for taking some facts and making deductions based on that fact then you might as well criticize every fucking person who ever lived (including yourself). Now if, instead (and more likely), you're going to criticize her for not knowing about which mammals create which hybrids then that's in the next category
The next categories are intertwined
4. Not knowing some facts about a certain field of study
Loads of examples, mostly scientific or history in the examples of this thread.
This is where I agree with you. I do believe that if you are interested in a study, it's helpful to know certain facts and if someone knows nothing about a field of study, they shouldn't be called an expert. It gets more complicated as fields tend to mix and even more complicated when there are arguments on both sides but that's not relevant.
So about the girl who didn't know a certain fact about animal biology. Does this lack of knowledge bring her harm? So far, it seems she only lost some credibility in a debate. Is that really SERIOUS BUSINESS? It depends on the stakes. If the result of this debate was going to result in genocide of all bestiality lovers then her ignorance of biology is a problem but since it's a classroom debate (for which the purpose is LEARNING), these kinds of mistakes not only are harmless but are helpful for learning. (Encourages people to make deductions based on facts and the importance of doing research before debating).
The "Not knowing about who runs the country" fact is almost a category of it's own due to it's arbitrary importance. But really, what difference does it make if little 10 year old Jimmy doesn't know who the current president is? He can't vote, he's not going to be affected by any policies (his parents might). Part of his education will involve the president but unless he's personally interested in politics, when he votes, and when certain policies affect him.
The only way ignorance about politics can be (and really, very marginally) detrimental is if you decide to vote or if you are studying politics (but those people do know who the president is). Otherwise, it doesn't make a SLIGHT bit of difference who runs the fucking country. Therefore, it's fine and perfectly reasonable to say "you should research the candidates a bit before you vote" but saying to everyone (including kids who can't vote) "you should know about your president" is just you forcing your values on someone else and who the fuck are you to decide what people should be interested in? who the fuck are you to decide what people should value? It's a free country.
5. Not knowing certain facts arbitrarily chosen from certain fields of studies
This is the category where bigotry sets in because apparently not knowing these facts is an atrocity. For example, people not knowing about Nazi Germany, not knowing about Hilter, or about basic geometry, or about our solar system. These are the kind of facts that most people know about simply because they are popular or arbitrarily chosen as significant (and thus appear in course curriculum). Condemning people for not knowing these facts on the basis that they are "common knowledge" is BULLSHIT.
To illustrate how the cultural significance of certain facts are arbitrarily chosen, I have my own question:
Which city(ies) in Japan had an Atomic Bomb dropped on them by the US?
If you answered "Hiroshima", then by using the bigoted logic that I've seen circulating, apparently you're deserve to die and be laughed at for not knowing a certain arbitrary fact
The correct answer is Hiroshima AND Nagasaki (oh and if you happened to know about this, consider yourself amongst the relative few who do). Yeah, that's right. 3 days after Hiroshima's bombing, the US dropped ANOTHER atomic bomb on Nagasaki. Not only does that suck for people in Nagasaki but you never fucking hear people talk about Nagasaki because it's not as commonly known as fucking Hiroshima.
Fact #1: the US dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima
Face #2: the US dropped an atomic bomb on Nagasaki
The only difference between these two is that one came 3 days before the other. Oh yeah, and apparently EVERYONE is expected to know fact #1 but not fact #2. A lot of people (for example, those who's family fucking died) probably give much more of a shit about the Nagasaki bomb.
The whole point of this example is to demonstrate how historical and cultural significance is based on arbitrary standards. In this case, the arbitrary standard is that the first bomb is more important.
If a certain person negatively judging people for not knowing certain random facts (like if someone didn't know about the atomic bomb on Hiroshima) then that person is rude, condescending, close-minded, and very hypocritical since there are PLENTY of facts (sometimes even related ones) that said person doesn't know.
Whilst it is true that not knowing ANY facts about ANY subject may be a problem, the act of condemning someone because they don't know one specific fact is complete elitist bullshit.
GruntOwner said:
President Moocow said:
Whereas it is clear that you are very angry and feel that some of the above posts are a tad harsh, please don't post simply to express your dislike. By all means, have that opinion and express it if you can do so without being too unpleasant, but this is a thread about people saying stupid things. It's frowned upon to simply complain about other posts and not actually contribute much to the thread, and far too often things like this escalate to the point where someone gets probation, or Heaven forbid we end up with a flamewar.
OT: A friend of mine and I were discussing her plans concerning the order in which to read/watch Twilight.
Her: I could lend it to you if you like.
Me: No thanks, I'm still reading A Brief History Of Time.
Her: Who's that by?
Me: Stephen Hawkins.
Her: The singer from The Darkness?
I spent 2 minutes laughing. I'm sure she's done more, but that's the only one which stands out at the moment.
Well I'm not personally attacking someone, I'm attacking their view point (which is fair game). It's what I do, and I don't apologize for it. If you have a problem with that then I'm sorry, but I'm not changing my ways. If this escalates to a flame war, it won't be me who throws the spark.
I understand the expectation to contribute rather than to attack but personally, I believe that I really am contributing to this thread by explaining why people's harsh views can be very offensive.